the "ask gimpyfish questions about metaknight" thread, and general mk discussion

[PsychoMidget]

Hey Gimpy, have you been exploring any uses for powershielding? Since it's much easier in this game, I've been hearing a lot about how people are practicing and getting good at it, and I'm wondering what you think MK's best uses would be for it.

ATM, I'm thinking powershield d-smash would be the most useful one given its KO power. Plus, if an opponent hits your shield, odds are they will try to DI their character away from you; this may add to the d-smash's KO potential.

Unfortunately, more ranged characters can probably hit your shield, DI away, and remain out of d-smash range. Seems like powershield dash attack or powershield dashing grab would be the thing to do. Another interesting idea might be powershield down+b, although I'm very doubtful concerning the effectiveness of that. If you've been d-smashing or n-airing too much, maybe it would be a decent alternate KO move.

On a side note, since many of MK's attacks have multiple hits, it seems like powershielding him will be less viable than it would against other characters. That's good.

Truthfully though, I'm not as interested in practicing powershielding as I am in learning MK's timing and the reach of his moves, but it's something to keep in mind as the meta-game advances.

Thoughts?

Yeah powershield to attacks are real good, gimpyfish went over this a little bit in the snake boards where you can powershield to stick someone with c4

and yea you're right about powershielding metaknight... you cant really punish him unless its a smash attack you powershield

 

[Gimpyfish62]

ummm yoshi is much worse than metaknight, he isn't completely horrendous, but he's DEFINITELY not a top level character, metaknight destroys yoshi in the matchup and overall, simply because his sword outprioritizes yoshis tail and all of that.

seriously, stop pulling at strings to make yoshi good, i've seen his potential, he can actually combo (unlike a lot of characters) very well, he has moderate kill moves and his recovery isn't the worst thing in the game, but he still has a ludicrous amount of weaknesses.


anyways, wobbles every time you post it makes me want to message you on aim so i can have some legit intelligent discussion but you are never on. whats up with that?


as far as "out of sheild game" (i'll leave powershielding in general out of it for now, just be creative here)

i used to just drop my sheild and dsmash, pretty much ignoring the percent, his grab is alright, but his dsmash will set them up for edgeguards and do more damage.
but wait

there are better options.

after experimenting with metaknight's tilts a little bit more than i had at first I realized that this guy has got some good moves (obviously lol)

so pretty much with your tilts you can do essentially dtilt x2 -> ftlit x3, at least starting with one dtilt to trip them and get a guaronteed ftilt combo out of it (granted, the dtilt has to hit, but that should be fairly obvious)

so after my dsmash out of sheild fun i started dropping my sheild into ftilts, but then i realized why do that when i'm guaronteed damage off my ridiculously fast dtilt and can ftilt out of it. Basically drop your sheild when you are in close, dtilt dtilt then start your ftilts, you can do 2 ftilts into a grab, or one ftilt into a dsmash... i mean, theres a lot of potential here. out of sheild game ftw. metaknight is where it at as far as that goes.

with powersheilding pretty much everything i said up there is guaronteed to land because you have no stun and dont get pushed away, but its rare for somebody to push you far enough away for the dtilt not to hit.


just as a side note

sheild pressure out of there grab range on the ground.

dtilt ftilt ftilt dtilt ftilt dtilt

generally just mix it around with those, its really... scary i guess... when somebody is pretty much constantly hitting your sheild with no breaks. just mess around with it, it's seriously too good.

 

[Drack]

by "2 ftilts" you mean the first 2 hits of the 3-hit ftilt?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

yes i dont mean do 6 full swings of ftilt, i'm pretty sure that would never hit anyone except for in giant brawl

(and it does, i played giant brawl for like 4 hours the other weekend for no reason LOL)

 

[HDL]

This thread.

I haven't read much here, but I saw something about Meta's specials being bad? Oh no, there's something wrong here for sure.

1. Mach Tornado: It has its own hitbox that completely surround Meta's body. This thing stops many projectiles (not all), it sucks in people trying to hit him out of it (depending), it's completely safe if you move away as it ends, and you have full control over its duration and where to move it. The only drawback is the inability to act until you land, which is not major since it's safe when you use it correctly.

2. Drill Rush: Probably his worst special, but by no means bad. This move is also completely safe when used correctly, and it can penetrate a full shield if you learn to curve it properly. That means if blocked, you are guaranteed at least 1 hit (last hit knocks them away from you). End it while on the ground and lag is minimal. You can stall on the ledge with it, too, and hits people right above the ledge (you don't even have to curve it).

3. Dimensional Cape: This move is deceptively good. At first it's difficult to use effectively since it appears he can avoid attacks entirely with it, but in actuality he can get hit while invisible too. The move can surprise often and covers good distance in any direction. I've caught people with the attack no matter what direction was needed (both in the air and ground), and the attack itself does a nice 14%, plus enough power to kill at around 150% more or less (standard for this game). It can trick people into thinking you'll attack, then grab, or move away instead of behind them. And you can also stall with it.

4. Shuttle Loop: This has to be one of the best moves in the game. It punishes air dodges, it's fast, it kills, it makes him glide, you have two ways to cancel landing lag entirely, etc. Instead of explaining the many uses it has, you can get a better idea by watching some of my matches.

Don't even know why I felt the need to post here. Just commenting on the specials, they are all useful in their own right, and some of the best in the game. Don't sleep on them.

I love ftilt.

 

[PyroRyuken]

Dang that sounds like a lot of fun Gimpyfish, can't wait to try that power shielding stuff out. Same with the specials MK has.

 

[Wekk]

few questions, and perhaps observations as well:

When you are getting back, or even in general, do you try to glide and go for the glide-A attack often? I found it's fast (as are all meta's moves) has high priority, and most importantly a lot more killing potential than most of meta's moves (certainly more than his other aerials)? Moreover, while gliding towards someone do you do a quick glide-A attack before you get there so you can air dodge or something else unexpected?

Another thing, why use fmash over dmash ever really? dmash is so fast, hits behind you as well, and for basically the same affect. I only use fmash when I plan on charging it (and then again who really does that anyways)

I am trying to experiement with combos off of standing A slashies, and the only thing I got to combo off of it so far is dmash. Have you gotten anything else?

Lastly, does his Nair have a sweetspot? It looks like it visually, but I don't know for sure.

And Lord HDL, I agree I think Meta's specials are actually quite good if used sparingly. Neut B in particular is hardly punishable (mostly on platform stages like battlefield) where you can mashb/DI so you land right on a platform and recover basically instantaneously. downB is nice as mindgames occasionally (and has decent KO power) but overall not worth using much. I only use it when my opponent is at least 120% or so. upB is also a good kill move, and you can avoid recovery if you get used to gliding-A attack.

 

[munkus beaver]

few questions, and perhaps observations as well:

When you are getting back, or even in general, do you try to glide and go for the glide-A attack often? I found it's fast (as are all meta's moves) has high priority, and most importantly a lot more killing potential than most of meta's moves (certainly more than his other aerials)? Moreover, while gliding towards someone do you do a quick glide-A attack before you get there so you can air dodge or something else unexpected?

Another thing, why use fmash over dmash ever really? dmash is so fast, hits behind you as well, and for basically the same affect. I only use fmash when I plan on charging it (and then again who really does that anyways)

I am trying to experiement with combos off of standing A slashies, and the only thing I got to combo off of it so far is dmash. Have you gotten anything else?

Lastly, does his Nair have a sweetspot? It looks like it visually, but I don't know for sure.

And Lord HDL, I agree I think Meta's specials are actually quite good if used sparingly. Neut B in particular is hardly punishable (mostly on platform stages like battlefield) where you can mashb/DI so you land right on a platform and recover basically instantaneously. downB is nice as mindgames occasionally (and has decent KO power) but overall not worth using much. I only use it when my opponent is at least 120% or so. upB is also a good kill move, and you can avoid recovery if you get used to gliding-A attack.

Yes. I use the glide + glide attack while recovering. I also purposefully miss with the Up-B in order to bait them into a glide attack. Aside from being a high priority kill move, it removes landing lag.

Only use F-smash if you think the delay will benefit you. Otherwise, always always always downsmash.

Don't know about Nair sweet spot, I do know that the first hit is the best hit of the N-air.

MK specials are great, the down-B just has to be used really, really, really sparingly and only if you have a great grasp of placement.

 

[flknpnch]

omg! i just noticed gimpy's sig! awesome, phillipians 4:13. yes, the g in omg stands for gosh.

 

[The Last Yoshi]

>_>

/flaccid

 

[Ares_Omega]

Is it easy for Meta Knight to gimp Pit's recovery?

It is sad that Pit's up B can recover from almost anywhere, but he dies if he is hit by any weak attack.

 

[PyroRyuken]

omg! i just noticed gimpy's sig! awesome, phillipians 4:13. yes, the g in omg stands for gosh.

Yeah that's pretty awsome.

Is it easy for Meta Knight to gimp Pit's recovery?

It is sad that Pit's up B can recover from almost anywhere, but he dies if he is hit by any weak attack.

Hmm, never thought of that. Whenver there is a MK vs. Pit match though I haven't seen any deaths like that.

 

[k4polo]

Couple of questions.

MK is my second main next to well you know.

1. Does MK have a spike?

2. Does he lack in KO moves(that what people say in general)?

3. Would you say he racks up damage well?

4. Does you think that the Drill move has a good use?

I don't think I got an answer to my questions. It is all good, I am not mad or anything. Here my own take on MK even though I haven't played the game.

But from what I see Metaknight does lack KO moves. From what I see, he is very quick and can rackup damage pretty well. I haven't played the game yet but I have some good fighting game experience and play other games as well.

I suggest focusing on metaknight strengths and KOing them off the edge. Basically rack up alot of damage,knock them to the edge, and be very aggressive when they are off the edge. At least this will be my strategy.

He lacks good KO moves. We know that. So we need to compensate for that. At the expert level, it seems he will be about quickness and knocking to edge quickly and use edge guarding.

MK strength seems to be quick attacks. To play a good Marth, you going to have to out quick him. It will be tough though.


In general, focus on aggressively attack opponent with his quick attacks. Maybe I can make Metaknight a good player.

Also MK players, don't feel discourage. I haven't played the game but I am a good vid analyst IMO.

 

[HDL]

1. In all my testing I have yet to see a spike, unless you count the ones on his sword.

2. No he does not lack kill moves. As a matter of fact, Meta kills easier than he should. It's kind of stupid, and it's one of the main reasons he'll most likely be a force at tournaments. Basically if you're having a hard time killing with him, you're doing something wrong and need to improve.

3. He racks up damage amazingly well, since most of his moves are low knockback and can string together or bait air dodges to punish. You generally keep them very close to you, whether you link moves or set them up, it allows him to be very aggressive with minimal risk to himself.

4. I explained the drill in my previous post.

Just keep in mind that he has no projectile, has low range, and is one of the lightest characters in the game. You can be aggressive, but you need to be extremely careful. Recklessly throwing aerials and down smashes and rushing people all over the place isn't how you become good with him.

 

[k4polo]

1. In all my testing I have yet to see a spike, unless you count the ones on his sword.

2. No he does not lack kill moves. As a matter of fact, Meta kills easier than he should. It's kind of stupid, and it's one of the main reasons he'll most likely be a force at tournaments. Basically if you're having a hard time killing with him, you're doing something wrong and need to improve.

3. He racks up damage amazingly well, since most of his moves are low knockback and can string together or bait air dodges to punish. You generally keep them very close to you, whether you link moves or set them up, it allows him to be very aggressive with minimal risk to himself.

4. I explained the drill in my previous post.

Just keep in mind that he has no projectile, has low range, and is one of the lightest characters in the game. You can be aggressive, but you need to be extremely careful. Recklessly throwing aerials and down smashes and rushing people all over the place isn't how you become good with him.

I guess that just reflect how i play tho. I am very aggressive usually. When I say aggressive i don't mean only offense. You can be aggressive defensive as well. What I mean is to take the initiative but thats just how I play though.

Randomly throwing out attacks isn't going to get people anywhere. You have to do mix-ups. Defend when necessary and so forth. I am just more offensive orientated though thats all. My defense needs to get better though, but it is decent.

Also thanks for the answers.

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

generally just mix it around with those, its really... scary i guess... when somebody is pretty much constantly hitting your sheild with no breaks. just mess around with it, it's seriously too good.

So if you're doing those string of attacks, they can't just roll out of the pressure? Are they stuck there blocking?

Also for down tilt, how long are they stunned from the trip?

 

[Sonic XD]

So, gimpyfish, metaknights english voice sucks, are you still gonna use?

 

[IrishSheikah]

Gimpyfish, I've heard how you don't like the killing percentages. Here is another question, Does Metaknight rack up damage quickly?

 

[R0cket]

I'm reading about tripping from the D-tilt all the time. Could anyone explain what they exactly mean by that? Does the tilt have some kind of sweetspot that initiates tripping? Or is it just the usual hit-stun?

 

[cheifrocka]

i'm quite serious about this one gimpy :

MK, English Brawl dub - Black or Spanish?

 

[k4polo]

MK sounds like Darth Vader. He don't sound that bad.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Ditto, Metaknight sounds like Darth Vader, and I like it.
Anyways, Gimpy,
What possible strategies can you use Down+B (Dimensional Cape) for?
Do you use Neutral+B (Mach Tornado) for anything?
And what will happen to your Bowser?
Are you 100% Metaknight, or is it 50/50 between him and Bowser?

 

[roguebanshee]

And what will happen to your Bowser?

Meta Knight is Bowser.

I'm amazed you hadn't noticed that yet.

 

[dieslow]

Lord DHL definitely knows what he's talking about.
i dont know why nobody is even talking about what gimpy posted, it's probably gonna be the main part of metaknight's metagame.

dtilt also sometimes makes the other player trip, so it easily leads into ftilts.

 

[Collective of Bears]

What is the worst character matchup for MK?

 

[TheSMASHtyke]

A few Metaknight questions....

1) After you use all of his jumps, does Metaknight go into helpless mode after using any of his B attacks?

2) Can you move Diagonally or vertically upwards with Metaknights B-Down?

And two Bowser question.

1) How easy or difficult is it to Bowser-side?

2) I've heard Bowser has an infinite jump technique. Is this true? Have you tried it?

 

[R0cket]

A few Metaknight questions....

1) After you use all of his jumps, does Metaknight go into helpless mode after using any of his B attacks?

2) Can you move Diagonally or vertically upwards with Metaknights B-Down?

And two Bowser question.

1) How easy or difficult is it to Bowser-side?

2) I've heard Bowser has an infinite jump technique. Is this true? Have you tried it?

1) He always goes into helpless mode after using a B attack

2) Yes

1) Depends how smart the enemy is at DIing

2) Yes it's true.

 

[Wekk]

A few Metaknight questions....

1) After you use all of his jumps, does Metaknight go into helpless mode after using any of his B attacks?

2) Can you move Diagonally or vertically upwards with Metaknights B-Down?

And two Bowser question.

1) How easy or difficult is it to Bowser-side?

2) I've heard Bowser has an infinite jump technique. Is this true? Have you tried it?

1)All of his B moves have "helpless mode" after you use them regardless of how many jumps you have used (this is assuming you've finished in the air) The only exception is his Upb, which puts you in a gliding state which you can attack out of, but them immediately put in helpless state afterwards if you don't land.

2)Yes but the distance isn't as far, it just takes some time getting used to the distance.when you are flying in on someone who you think will attack you (ala Marth) it's not a bad idea to cancel glide, then downB towards them for the hit. Still very risky.

3)All you have to do is overB and a direction, but the person you are trying to bowserside has control over the direction as well. If you hold left and your opponent holds right, then bowser goes up fairly vertically (though I think a bit to the left)

 

[LuigiTheKing]

So, gimpyfish, metaknights english voice sucks, are you still gonna use?

I thought Meta's voice was epic.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I thought Meta's voice was epic.

I know, right? James Earl Jones ftw.

 

[Chrono Centaur]

Umm, I thought that Up-B puts you into a glide which you can jump out of. Because I've seen MK users jump out of an Up-B glide before.

 

[Rx-]

A bad match for Metaknight, in my experience, is Snake. Snake, when played defensively, can produce an army of projectiles, and be difficult to overtake.

I don't know how all these Snake mains got so good.

 

[P-X R4ZR]

How good do you think Meta Knight will be in Doubles? In theory, he would be a good character to play because his lack of killing moves could be covered by having a strong partner like Ike or Marth that can kill easily, and he can quickly weaken opponents for his partnet to kill. Thoughts?

 

[MDK00]

@Rx-: in my experience snake is very easy to handle. but then again none of the ppl i play with main snake. but even in high play i'd think he wudnt be much of a challenge for metaknight

@P-X R4ZR: i've played lots of dbls with my partner who uses marth, the team works out so nicely its beautiful i combo those *****es and he ko's them or i edgeguard them. soo nice

 

[Zm4rf]

Is MK a good fight against anyone with projectiles?

What about chasing people off the top off the screen?

 

[RayJT9]

I'm not Gimpyfish, but I may as well answer while I'm reading this thread...

Umm, I thought that Up-B puts you into a glide which you can jump out of. Because I've seen MK users jump out of an Up-B glide before.

MetaKnight cannot jump out of Up-B glide - he just goes into fallspecial. He can however jump out of midair-jump glide.

Is MK a good fight against anyone with projectiles?

What about chasing people off the top off the screen?

Personally I find projectiles are a pain in the *** for MetaKnight, but they're more just an annoyance than any serious threat most of the time, and the weaker projectiles can be dispersed with neutral B.

MetaKnight is pretty good at hitting floaty characters off the top of the screenjust from things like jump, u-air, jump, u-air, jump, u-air, etc, though I'd imagine experienced players could DI out of this with ease.

--Ray

 

[Rockin]

Gimpyfish, do you have to sweetspot Meta's Up B? Because I'm having a hard time landing it on opponents.

What kind of style you need in order to play Meta effectivly?

What are Meta's best and worst stages?

 

[Omegakyogre]

Gimpyfish, do you have to sweetspot Meta's Up B? Because I'm having a hard time landing it on opponents.

*isn't Gimpyfish, but answering anyway*
In my experience, the best place to hit when you want them to launch in the same direction is right in front of MK (maybe above a little bit) when he starts the attack. The knockback at that point as fairly horizontal; much more so than if you hit later. The best place to hit with it is during the initial altitude increase. When MK reaches the top, the damage is very minimal.

If you to hit them backwards, I'm fairly sure the best place is right at the top when and right before MK starts looping back. The attack sends them down and in the opposite direction at that point (that might have been DI, when I think about it... Not sure).

 

[UnSaxon51]

First of all:

Gimpyfish62
Smash World Forums Metaknight Questions Thread
2/25/2008

1. There seems to be an attraction between your Metaknight and DSF's Olimar. Is there any truth to this supposed liaison? Is there possibly an affair behind the scenes?

DSF's Olimar actually recently stopped seeing my Metaknight. Since then he has tried with metaknight and marth among any others, but there seems to be no consistent relationship brewing with any of the previously mentioned.

2. Please describe Metaknight as how good he would be if he had teh fire.

If Metaknight had teh fire (also known as t3h ph1r3 in some dialects) he would be uber pwn
sauce over 9000.

3. In relation to question 2, how does Metaknight do versus Roy? Does he counter Roy? Does Roy do better or worse than Marth?

Metaknight is actually countered by Roy because he does in fact have t3h ph1r3, where Metaknight does not. He also does better than Marth, simply because he is a better character.

4. When gliding with Metaknight, particularly underneath the stage, do you often personally emit a "vrrrrrrrrraaaawwwmmmm" noise reminiscent of a plane in flight? If so, why.

I always emit a "vrrrrrrrrraaaawwwmmmm" noise upon gliding. Not only does it do the mind games but it also makes me feel like a superior flying machine.

Hilarious. Gimpy ftw.

Anyways, moving on. People keep asking what are the best moves to use, but I like to be different. Does Meta Knight have any moves that should NOT be used under normal circumstances?
(This is obviously ignoring his B-moves since you've already addressed those)

Also, speaking of B-moves, I have a specific application question. Does Dimensional Cape have a preset direction when you use it or is it possible to just stay where you are? Obviously from your recommendations it should still be used sparingly, but I imagine you could throw some extra mind games if you don't have to actually move anywhere. Yes? No?

Mmmm... so looking forward to playing as Meta Knight.

 

[Ares_Omega]

Is it easy for Meta Knight to kill Pit by gimping the jumps and the up B?

Sorry, nobody answered me earlier.