i know you have stated that meta knights B moves arent very good a few times now (except his up B, of course)... i was just wondering if you have found a use for them yet?
well, his neutral b does have some uses, and i think i'm not realizing i should use it a little bit more simply to recharge the knockback on my down smash/neutral/airs. his over b does pitiful damage, at e for all it did over 30%, was pretty much unblockable, and impossible to di out of. i'm glad they fixed that lol
his up b is a nasty edgeguard, if you use it while facing the stage, and you hit them while you are going the opposite direction you are facing (i hope that makes sense) it will hit them with all of hte knockback but will send them in the opposite direction that you are facing. basically this is the lowest percent way i can get my kills, it doesn't work often though because of the airdodging mechanics, but depending on who you are playing and how high you were, you can sometimes hit them with the glide attack on the way down.
Have you found any uses for his down B and do you see any potential with that move
the easiest target for the down b for me so far is snake, because of psycho ******'s usage of up smash you can teleport behind and slash while he spams it (at least thats for his snake lol), other than that its more a matter of reading the distances between you and your opponent. dont use it on players who like to just 'do moves' as you will pretty much ALWAYS get hit out of it. basically the more patient the person is you are playing against the more opportunities you have to land it, but still use it extremely sparingly
What do you think of MK's tornado (neutral B) move? I dont see you use it quite often, but i have been watching alot of Forte's MK and he uses the move alot. I dont own the game but i've tried it a few times on my opponents and sometimes its good for a surprise or they dont block it completely, but for the most part they block it and i get punished.
Is this move spammable or even to be used that much?
well, i semi already went over this, but i'll post again.
basically I dont use it that much because its not all that difficult to avoid if you realize how long you need to hold your sheild, its not going to be breaking any sheilds and it has enough lag after to be punished, even if you are grounded. the best characters to use it on IMO are big fat characters like bowser and dedede, they have trouble actually breaking it, and also have trouble punishing you after. generally i dont use this move a lot *shrug*
sometimes you can actually do a downthrow neutral b tech chase on somebody if you know they are going to jump after you throw them, you take away their jump then suck them down with you, setting up for a nice up tilt/up air/up smash which should (at lower percents) lead into other moves, you could potentially even do down throw neutral b up b if you wanted to.
Also i noticed in some of your vids you have prime opportunities to do ^air into ^B but never do the combo. Is there a reason for that?
i've started doing it more. my logic was always sort of a 'dont do it, save the knockback for when it will kill' but now i like to just get them off the edge. after realizing that metaknight's up b really isn't that great of a kill move (nor is anything else he has) i realized that i can just get them off the edge then punish them after, plus it does do more damage than an up air up air up air forward air or something like that.
What would you say is the best edgeguard attack for MK. For the most part i see >Air and Nair.
probably neutral air, it does by far the most damage of any of his airs if both hits land (most of them do pitiful damage) and also the most knockback, you can also simply jump in place with neutral airs.
One thing i like to do a lot when somebody has actually already grabbed the edge is float at their level with neutral air over and over. either they get hit and pretty much automatically die (stage spike, teching is harder to time in this game, although in theory i suppose you could survive if it hit you) or they have to get up and let you on the edge.
basically the best way to get up in that situation if you aren't metaknight is a getup attack, it seems to have the most invincibility frames.
[/QUOTE]Sorry for the barage of questions just trying to learn as much as i can without owning the game and taken advantage of a good player offering help =)[/QUOTE]
its cool, i dont own the game either ;P
I'll chip in a bit.
1) Neutral+b is best used as part of the general platform game. When an opponent is above you and landing near a platform, you're much safer using neutral+b to hit their toes. You can adjust your height depending on if you catch them in it, and you can move away from the platform as it ends so you're harder to hit afterwards.
2) I think a fun edgeguard to try--although it would be hard to set up--would be glide-attacking. Since you can quickly change the trajectory of your glide or cancel it at any time with an attack, it might be fun to trick and surprise an enemy. And since you can use the glide out of your second jump, canceling it would still let you return to the level. Plus, you could get way off the level without using your other jumps.
3) Down+b is best used sparingly, and you have to be very precise with it. I tried messing around with it, and you can be hit out of it fairly easily, as it has a long start up time.
4) D-air has good range behind it and sends opponents horizontally, making it a good edgeguard move.
5) At low percents, up-air combos safely into forward-air. This is a nice alternative to using up+b.
6) Something fun about up+b; used in the right places on Battlefield, it will cancel instantly onto the top platform with no lag. This could be a handy out-of-shield defensive tactic that leaves you relatively safe.
That's just some stuff I found from playing a little on other people's imported or burned copies of Brawl. I'm sure Gimpy's advice will be a bit better though.
wobbles does the smart manuever, all of this is good.
i like the neutral sheild poking on platforms, its basically the only punish free way of doing it on somebody, i really dislike watching a metaknight video where they will randomly do b moves (and honestly, randomly do every move) and they seem to do alright.
as soon as people learn to play against metaknight and not get hit by his near constant rate of attacks he's going to be much worse, and just spamming moves isnt' going to get you anywhere, i'd just like people to keep that in mind.
glide attack edgeguard is sexy and awesome. i love it haha
Gimpy what characters can counter metaknight?
i've had the most trouble honestly with marth snake ike and dedede. basically characters that are hard to kill under like 180%, and marth (because he's marth)
ike you can gimp kill generally, but if the ike knows what it is doing he avoids this fairly easily. he has less punishable lag than you may think, which leads to me (me personally, probably not metaknight, and probably not anyone once we learn sheildhitstuns and the like) getting hit by his jabs a lot.
The problem is simply kill ratios in these matchups. Metaknight doens't kill snake for example until like 180%, while metaknight can die with relative ease at under 100%.
marth is just marth, he's gonna be hard for everyone lol
If you want to recover by using gliding, does it ever fail?
i'm not sure what you mean. you can only glide once in the air before you land, with the exception of gliding after you up b.
general gliding information:
basically, if you are going to glide, only use one jump to go into your glide. save those extra jumps. If you use all of your jumps then glide, then break out of your glide, you go into free fall, you cant up b again. save those jumps.
also, dont glide too often, players can break through your glide attack (although in that case it almost always seems to clash, the only characters i've seen break through have been... well just marth i suppose haha) but projectiles eat it up. din's fire is a prime example. i like to start a glide right away, but when playing against a zelda i almost never glide, it simply leads to me getting hit by dins fire off the stage and up, so i die at low percents. be smart with gliding.
gliding under the stage is a great way to avoid being edgeguarded at all, and make your opponent think "wow, metaknight is broken garbage" (even though this is completely untrue) honestly though, its just a good way of recovering without being edgeguarded, you can also fake your opponent out by making it look like you are going under the stage, then simply going for the first edge. he starts moving pretty fast (faster than most characters in this game can move in the air) so its really a great way to avoid attacks.
Glide attack edgeguarding. probably my favorite thing in the world. a lot of players seem to simply get scared and react poorly, and the glide attack can kill at just as low a percent as your dsmash can (which is still high to kill btw) but it kills STRAIGHT UP so make sure they actually have the percent to kill them first.
you can use it midstage if you have enough control over your character for a really tricky recovery. keep in mind, glide attack has ZERO lag so you can glide at a sheilding opponent, glide attack at the lowest point it will come out and grab immediately, and you should land the grab. but you can also varry it up and be really tricky to make sure they dont actually sheild it, but they get hit haha
Which Characters counter MetaKnight?
already addressed.
Gimpy doing Meta Knight Q & A? Good luck. My Pit Q & A still drives me insane. ^_^
Seriously, even though I have played with MetaKnight quiet a bit, I need a personal opinion.
Which aerial is better (Priority wise) in your opinion? His Fair or his Bair? In addition to that, which of his aerials have the over all best usability in any situation?
I still want revenge lol.
all of his airs have really good priority, he's got a sword afterall XD
umm the other question would require a ridiculous amount of writing. it seems like you are asking for a "tell me what air to use in every situation" haha
Is it hard to short-hop with MK? Also, is he easy to get good with?
its easy to short hop with him, its not easy to get good with anyone (aside from marth)
initially i was very turned off by metaknight actually because i found it nearly impossible to kill, but this was before i'd seen a single video or heard anything about him after the e for all demo.
i'm glad i sorta stuck with him though, but some newer players could be turned off by his difficulty of killing, but simply spamming moves is really effective on players who dont really have good control of their characters yet.
Just to answer these questions with personal experiance.
Yes, it is easy to Short Hop with Meta Knight, and the same can be said for everyone because the mechanic is way easier this time.
And no, he isn't easy to get good with. Some of Meta Knight's attacks feel sporadic in a sense, to the point in which they can be hard to control or require a good sense of timing. His aerials require timing, and his ground attacks requier adequate spacingto make sure you don't make a miscalculation when striking the enemy. Keep the space between you and the opponent at a medium or minimal depending on the approach you are trying to make.
Also, make sure that you punish as much as possible, considering that this is the field that Meta Knight accels in.
*shrug* pretty much this i guess
Oh, thanks for clearing that up Eternal phoenix Fire. From what I've seen, you have to use them at kinda close range, scince they come out fast.
metaknight is a pretty aggressive character, but you cant be too aggressive, otherwise you can get punished easy, while it may seem like mk has no lag to speak of, it exists, and playing against most characters you can get sheild grabbed or even punished with smash attacks depending on who you are playing. spacing is critical with metaknight.
Who's Meta's easiest matchup, and who is his hardest?
Also, whats his best KO'ing move?
the easiest matchup for me personally is vs pokemon trainer. honestly. metaknight seems to counter every single pokemon he can throw at you because of their horrible recoveries. its gimp kills all around. i think i've 3 stocked every pokemon trainer i've played since i got moderately good, and it's not because the pokemon trainer player sucked.
basically its just too easy to gimp the pokemon. between the 3 pokemon though, charizard is probably the hardest to play against i guess
i already went over who is the hardest
There's one thing I've been wondering about. Everyone always says that Metaknight has such terrible KO power, but I've gotten a chance to play the game a couple of times and it seems like the forward smash has really good knockback. I've seen it kill at barely over 100% a bunch of times, and it doesn't exactly seem like the most difficult move to land. That seems pretty above-average to me...I mean, Link can barely kill at those percentages. Granted, he certainly doesn't have any variety in his KO options and not having any aerial KO options is a problem, but the fsmash really seems like a very good move for finishing someone off. Does he really struggle to get KOs in an actual match?
he struggles to get ko's absolutely. basically his fsmash is really slow and predictable, especially compared to the rest of his moves. not a move to be spammed, you can land it absolutely, but again its all about spacing.
it also takes a little bit of prediction to land this move, i land it easily enough, but its still rare when i think its the best option.
How hard is it to glide with metaknight and is it better than Pit's spdeedwise?
Also, is Metaknight a good choice against Marth and Fox?
its faster than pits, i think metaknight has the fastest glide in the game.
marth is ridiculous, he's hard to play against, but the same is true for anyone vs metaknight.
i dont know about metaknight in general, but i do really good against fox as every character i play, something is very familiar about the matchup from melee, he's really easy to kill and really easy to fight.
its like a toned down fox from melee who plays really similarly, you avoid pretty much the same things except his grabs aren't as effective.
oh, since we are on the subject, a really cool super fun awesome edgeguard vs the side b and stuff that you think isn't going to sweetspot. simply tap and hold a, if you catch somebody in this off the edge, huzah, you automatically get a free downsmash, hold a as long as it seems they are going to di towards you (or not at all if they are at a higher percent) and then mash down on the cstick. it'll hit every time. this works great on the edges of platforms and such as well, its really cool i like doing it a lot.
Nah. F-smash isn't that great.
Meta Knight IS bad at getting KO's, but his Forwards smash isn't his best kill move, his D-smash is. More priority, much faster, same kill potential.
Most of Meta Knight's kills come from edge gaurding and Nair gimp kills off the edge.
dsmash isn't quite as strong, and you'll likely be using it a lot to get space and to get players off the edge, so it'll be diminished at some points anyways, fsmash is stronger but dsmash is clearly better.
You say he isn't well balanced enough to be top tier (such as someone else, say Marth). I'm wondering the reasoning behind this.
The common arguments for this are like this:
1) Metaknight has low/no KO ability: While this is true to an extent, He has an arsenal of moves that will kill at decent percentages, most of them fairly fast as well. ftilt, fmash, downsmash, etc. Not to mention it's ridiculously easy to ledgeguard when you have 5 jumps and a sword.
2) His moves are low priority: This may be true of his normal moves in comparison to someone like Marth, but his neutralB and forwardB will **** near beat anything, and if used correctly are hardly punishable. I'm not saying use them all the time (as being too predictable with them will make them more punishable), however a good combination of his low priority normals (fast and easily comboable) with his high priority specials makes him well rounded in this department.
So with those, as well as his ridiculous ability to recover, fast ground run speed, what ISN't well balanced?
Also, I was wondering what are some of the basic combos, since there is no thread discussing that (and if you know, at what percentages these combos stop working)
Thanks
Wekk
metaknight has horrible ko ability. horrible horrible horrible. he also dies easily and is outranged by some of the characters who he would have trouble against anyways simply because you cant KO them.
metaknight is good, but he isn't the best. the whole "good recovery" thing is a seriously dumb argument to put metaknight at top tier. everyone in the game has a good recovery save ganon wolf and captain falcon basically, so that doens't give him any sort of boost. metaknight is great center stage if you space correctly, but if you do anything but you get punished and owned after pretty much everything.
to sum it up
metaknight is very good, but not the best.
Do you see all stages with walls being banned because of Meta's A mash combo, and several other's? I first saw it with someone's signature with Meta, they threw Fox to a wall, then just combo'd him into KO.
Also, I've seen you once glide under the Battlefield stage to recover on the other side; if characters can run to the other side at near same speed, isn't that just too risky to do, and you'd only do it to be flashy?
metaknight's neutral a against a wall isn't an infinite combo in any way, you can escape from that by diing towards metaknight (to push him back) then diing away from metaknight (to give yourself enough room to powersheild)
basically like 90% of the "wall infinites" aren't infinite at all.
and on the gliding, if you've saved your jumps its really not that risky to do it actually, the only way they can edgeguard you is by putting themselves into a position where you can edgeguard them if you grab the edge, you still have a glide attack and multiple jumps (all of which can come with neutral airs off the stage) and THEN your up b to recover.
why do you play metaknight on torunaments, if eh is this bad that you tell gimpy?
ps: it was my signature ^^
who said metaknight was bad?
Ok, shoot.
Very wrong sir. Meta Knight doesn't have s solid low percentage kill move. Other than his Down Smash that can only kill at higher percentages, he doesn't have anything in his arsenal that can low percentages kills. Ledge gaurding in Brawl isn't as easy as it sounds, for the opponent can easily escape his aerials, and the auto-ledge snap mechanic makes it harder to keep the opponent away from the edge.
Everyone in this game is good at recovering, and combining that with his low air mobility makes edge kills difficult, but possible to a certain extent. The only good edge killing move he has is his Nair, and the hotbox is awkward. You can substitute the Nair for a Gliding-A, but only if you don't pull anything suicidal. It does have good knockback, though.
Meta Knight's B moves have been significantly nerfed since E For All. All of his B moves except for his Shuttle Loop can be punished easily because they lead into free fall animation. His Mach Tornado doesn't do nearly as much damage as it used to, and his Drill Rush.....wow...it got hit with the nerf bat VERY hard. It can be DI'd out of without even trying, and it doesn't inflict hardly any damage. His Illusion Cape can be punished easily, and really shouldn't be used often. The only good special is is Shuttle Loop, and that's because of the ability to Glide Cancel, quick UP+B out of shield, and good knockback.
There aren't any combos currently in this game beyond basic strings.
Meta Knight has been changes since E For All, and not in a good way.
haha i think the changes from e for all were ALL for hte best, metaknight was the most broken garbage i've ever seen at e for all and he got massively toned down. this metaknight is like 20% efficiency from e for all, and its a good thing.
metaknight might even be banned if he stayed like he was at e for all lol
From my experience with Metaknight, a competent Zero Suit Samus player gives him a very hard time because of not only her superior range but also her amazing anti air strategies. I see her as being one of his most difficult matchups in the higher end of gameplay.
Learning how to glide down in order to make yourself glide INSANELY high up at a really tight angle is a really useful thing to do as well because you could be at the bottom of Final Destination and make it back no sweat. There are a lot of fun mindgames to be had with gliding, I can't wait to experiment with that even more.
zero suit was hard for me at first simply because she seemed to have an answer for every angle and ridiculous range to boot. she's pretty tough, but not impossible. seems like once you hit her you can really vamp up the aggression, she doesn't have a lot of "combo breaking options" other than the airdodge obviously
anyways, you can gimp kill zero suit samus, although she does have 2 tethers and like a billion jumps for some reason, its still not too difficult, get her off the stage far enough, hit her once and get on that edge, she cant grab and you get the ko *shrug*
Gimpy, are you dramatized by the number of question you have to answer in this thread...
but for serious question, does Meta-Knight have a better moveset then Wolf
w..what?
and thats a really weird question.
i'd say yes, but thats still a really weird question.
metaknight has a sword *shrug*
That's an extremely ironic question.
But I figured he would, due to the persistant, loyal, and sometimes, disturbing fans he has.
Honestly, I think that a Q & A was the worse thing ever lol. ^_^
@ The Question: How on earth can you compare two completely different characters and ask which has the better moveset?Wolf doesn't even have a sword...sheesh. >_>
haha i didn't even read this before i wrote 'metaknight has a sword'
too good LOL
What characters can counter meta knight?
fat ones
Cannot be determined. Please don't ask these questions yet, for they cannot be determined. ^_^
K'thanks.
meh, ask away i say lol
I'm telling you, if you are Metaknight, one person you NEED to know how to fight is Zero Suit Samus.
I think Xigon is using "dramatized" out of context.
Also, I recently used the neutral B to grab my opponent (falco) and carried him slightly off the level, then immediately grabbed the edge. Afterwards i linked a few dAirs and then a fAir and managed a kill. It was neat but I don't know if it would be consistently useful.
thats actually sort of cool, i'll see if i can do that with some consistency and get back to you, sounds cool enough haha
zero suit just requires a lot of patience, she is a really good character, but metaknight isn't entirely out classed here
