The approach

[UnF-air]

Hello everyone I'm new to the boards but have been playing forever. Anyways, I'm a very aggressive player and find myself moving quickly in the direction of my opponent more often than them at me. So, I was just wondering everyone's favorite approach as well as how to best approach Marth (especially a counter-heavy one)

I'll start. I like wavedash-Ftilt, running shorthop-Nair-fastfall, and I've found running toward Marth and then backward wavedash can provoke a counter or smash which leaves enough time for a dash attack etc.

 

[Nihonjin]

You're asking impossible questions.
There's no such thing as a static perfect approach because its situational. So I can't really give you advise on that. (I actually wavedash forward tilt as well and shorthop nair, its just how you use it and time it)

If you want people to be able to comment and help you improve, try and record some vids for us to critisize you, right now I've nothing to go on. ~_~

 

[KirbyKaze]

if marth is countering just grab him.

 

[RaynEX]

or you could take the gay safe road and not approach.

needles?

 

[UnF-air]

alright more specific. We're playing on final destination positioned on opposite sides, and he's taunting like a cocky sheath stroking marth. I'm running at him, waist high clouds trail behind me and ice water runs through my veins. He reaches for his sword, do I

A: go air borne
B: Needles
C: move in for the ground attack
D: WHIP TIME BABY!!!!
E: Needles

 

[einthesuperdog]

Don't ever use the chain. Needles are a good option, especially needles canceling into grabs. Speaking of which, grabs are conspicuously absent from your list. It's still really situational. You can pulse walk (run in and WD back) to bait a fsmash or counter and punish. "go air borne" as you put it generally means shffling a f-air into a jab or grab to avoid getting shield grabbed. You need to be able to pull it off consistently or you'll be punished. What exactly does move in for the ground attack constitute for you? That could be a lot of things. Generally, just charging in blindly will and in tears be smart about it.

 

[ArcNatural]

Wak's advanced How to Play : Part 1

Watch all three parts. Welcome to the real Smash Bros. Melee.

 

[UnF-air]

Wow, thats a great video series, I knew most of that stuff cept shielded up-B and Usmash but still very awesome. I'm now practicing my pulse walk to grab cause I think that will be awesome against counter. Also working on fine-tuning my down-dodge cause I think if I can get close and stay close I'll have a better chance than trying to run in and out against him.

 

[KirbyKaze]

if he reaches for his sword on the ground assume it's

1) d-tilt
2) f-smash
3) u-tilt

anything else is easier to manage (if he side Bs it's ccable for first 2 hits and most marths don't f-tilt onstage)

counters are

1) aerial / grab / run close so he doesn't tip and shield
2) shield
3) shield

so basically if you shield against his ground stuff you're good unless it's tipped f-smash or d-tilt

when he starts using aerials defensively and grabs defensively and ccing jabs/tilts into grab the matchup becomes trickier

 

[RaynEX]

I'm now practicing my pulse walk to grab cause I think that will be awesome against counter.

Counter isn't THAT broken.

You need to stop basing your game around such a bad move. Just spam grab, because regardless of if he counters or not, it is still one of your best options.

(if not the best)

 

[soap]

i like to dash dance into bairs, grabs, and needles the whole game, im kind of approaching with them and kind of camping at the same time

 

[RaynEX]

Its so gay, and yet so wholesome.

Soap makes you feel clean.

 

[QuickSi1ver]

As marth as my second, his worst gimp is his lack of projectiles, at the very start of the game its very likely he will be approaching you, because its the only way he can hit you. Let him come to you and piss him off with your needles then run in quickly for a crouch canceled D-smash or maybe a chain throw.

 

[einthesuperdog]

can't chain throw marth if he DIs properly

 

[UnF-air]

yeah I think I'm gonna make needles more prevalent and force him to come to me. I think I'm gonna play pretty grab heavy, WHAT IS THE BEST GRAB AGAINST MARTH? I always lean toward the down-throw but maybe up is better. I've noticed that if marth tries to arial counter against say an usmash or utilt from above you can set off the animation without getting hit giving shiek a short but sweet opportunity ( you take what you can get against marth)

 

[ArcNatural]

yeah I think I'm gonna make needles more prevalent and force him to come to me. I think I'm gonna play pretty grab heavy, WHAT IS THE BEST GRAB AGAINST MARTH? I always lean toward the down-throw but maybe up is better. I've noticed that if marth tries to arial counter against say an usmash or utilt from above you can set off the animation without getting hit giving shiek a short but sweet opportunity ( you take what you can get against marth)

Dthrow is the best throw against Marth. It gaurantees a hit whether it is a ftilt, uptilt, fair, etc. You have a gauranteed hit out of a dthrow well into like 150% I think.

 

[RaynEX]

I've noticed that if marth tries to arial counter against say an usmash or utilt from above you can set off the animation without getting hit giving shiek a short but sweet opportunity ( you take what you can get against marth)

Lol, thats a cool find and all...but what Marths are you playing? I don't think I've ever even seen a Marth counter on the stage before.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't think I've ever even seen a Marth counter on the stage before.

you mean you didn't see m2k vs shiz?

 

[Grunt]

Lazer counter FTW.

 

[Drephen]

run--->wavedash back

 

[Banks]

if you get the grab

if he DI's straight up, usmash or if percent is too high up air (utilt is good if he's a at a good percent where it would juggle him for a hit or two)
if he di's forward run and regrab, if percent if too high forward air, alternately you can ftilt to forward air, or ftilt to grab depending on percent and opponent DI ability
if he di's behind youturn around and ftilt or regrab, if percent is too high back air or quickly turn around and forward air

he really cant do crap after a dthrow except take something in the face

also really good marths will have tricky DI so regrabbing isnt ALWAYS possible depending on percent but a large amount of the smash population falls for it everytime. I almost always get dthrow-grab-dthrow-usmash on people once per game, even really good ones >___<

 

[QuickSi1ver]

Dthrow ---> f-tilt ---> short hopped f-air? plausable?

 

[4 Aces]

Down throw is Sheik's only and best grab. Forward and back is mainly to kick em off stage, but then again, you may as well down throw-->fair, or whatever. I've never heard of Up throw being useful.

 

[KirbyKaze]

u-throwing a space animal onto a platform works on stadium because you can chase with aerials easily. better on fox because aerials knock him over sooner than falco (cc).

but in the context of marth d-throw is the best by a lot, maybe if your back's turned to the edge and you grab him b-throw is better but even at the edge facing forward i find d-throw fair better pretty much always.

 

[4 Aces]

u-throwing a space animal onto a platform works on stadium because you can chase with aerials easily. better on fox because aerials knock him over sooner than falco (cc).

but in the context of marth d-throw is the best by a lot, maybe if your back's turned to the edge and you grab him b-throw is better but even at the edge facing forward i find d-throw fair better pretty much always.

That's good to know. Thanks.

Lol, thats a cool find and all...but what Marths are you playing? I don't think I've ever even seen a Marth counter on the stage before.

You mean you've never seen Ken vs. PC Chris? It's the videos that had these two spokesperson talk in the background. Ken was doing it a bunch of times in their matches. I could link em to you if you want.

 

[nicaboy]

honestly if your playing a counter happy marth he must be either a newb (no disrepect intended) or just dumb especially if the marth is playing a sheik( what could be the worse possbile match for marth) as for how to go about moving in with sheik like the first guy said it really is sitiuational sheik has many types of apporches she can take which vary on who your fighting. you could play long range and neddle spam marth from time to time grab marth(one of sheik better options) and tilts **** marth so ya..........

and also i really only see marth use counters on space animals as edge guards if they are using the up b reecovery to sweet spot the ledge or to throw in a mix up who spams counters?

 

[soap]

i love counter, i wouldnt do it so much against sheik though cuz sheik is just looking for a swing and a miss then grab u, but its good against space animal pressure.