The Anti-Sword Debate/Vent room.

[courte]

I'm a link main, i'm not even gonna bother coming back here. But...

There are a lot of character support threads out there, and thus, there are flamers with excuses. For the fire emblem franchise, the argument against swords has never been used so much more often. This is room is for people to debate and vent about the use of swords by current, potential and supported characters.

Is it simply blades that you are against?? Do you feel that it is unfair?? Would you be able to agree that the unarmed combatants far outweigh the swordsmen, and thus their speed makes an uneven balance??

Is "no more sword users!!" the first or only thing you say to a character such a Isaac, WW Link, or Takamaru?? Do you take into account that they each bring in something unique to make their choice of weapon a component in their fighting style?? What about the fact that Nintendo hasn't truly had an official swordsman in brawl??

Marth, Roy, Ike - Soldiers and Lords, Army Generals and CO's
Link, WW Link - Jack of all trades, use all body parts, and use all items fairly
Ganondorf, Isaac - Have strong magicks as the root of their true powers
Takamaru - Certianly the closest thing we would have to a true swordsman, on top of which, the obvious samurai would have a different visual style and flair, and not be limited to his sword such as Marth, Roy or Ike

Please feel free to debate and discuss w/e you want. IDC; I'm a Link Main. SWORDSMEN FOR BRAWL!!

 

[Rakath]

In the case of Fire Emblem the "No more Swords" is more a stance of how under-represented the aspect of multiple weapon types is to the series itself. Fire Emblem is a game of tactics and balance using multiple types of characters with types of weapons.

To have every Fire Emblem character weild a sword would be... repetitive. However playing Ike like how Hector should be designed slightly changes the weighting on the arguement. Since Ike in Brawl is playing like an Axe (General and Hector style Axe) unit. Fire Emblem having at least 1 non-Sword unit would be a much needed step in the right direction. However that is less than likely.

On the game as a whole it isn't that big a deal. The disjointed hitboxes are only a problem if you don't properly balance things out... I rightly don't care one way or another on how many Sword characters are in the game so long as 1 Fire Emblem character uses Magic or Lances.

 

[courte]

completely unrelated but reminded by Rakath, more than anyone I'd want Hector and Ephraim as newcomers for FE and the returning two as well as others A WIDE ARRAY OF ELITIST SWORDMEN!! At least enough for a FE all star match

Roy+Eliwood - Magic Sword??
Hector - Regular Axe
Marth+Sigurd - Dainty Sword?? lol
Ephraim - t3h Spear has t3h reach over t3h sword
Ike - Sword Brute
and i dunno some magic chick i guess, doesn't matter to me as we know any girl characters in brawl end up being godly

That's full circle to me

 

[smashbot226]

Well, having ALL sword users would be boring.

See, if Ganon had a sword, I wouldn't mind, because he has magic and hand to hand combat to back it up. Takamaru... sure, he has flair, but... looking past that, he's AKA Generic Sword user, But Also A Samurai.

Marth and Roy... how does their military position affect their likelihood of getting in?

WW Link: Not only is his art style unique, but his equipment. Megaton Hammer? Deku Leaf? Grappling Hook?

I'm all for this idea, there are just some limits that these characters you mention can only pass but by a smidgen.

 

[True Fool]

So long as the same styles aren't tacked a lot of the same swordsmen. It was okay to have two of each swordsman type character in Melee, it was only two, but there are so many more sword-wielding candidates now, they need to be a bit diverse in their styles.

A lot of the characters I'm rooting for are sword characters, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to have them vary from each other when fighting.

 

[smashbot226]

Different styles, eh?


You just saved Takamaru from the brink of monotony.

 

[True Fool]

Different styles, eh?


You just saved Takamaru from the brink of monotony.

Internet sarcasm is a very difficult language to read. Like fraggin' Aztec to me. Please reassure me that it wasn't sarcasm, or tell me that it was so that I may attempt to defend myself, please?

 

[courte]

Ah! So to some of you background is irrelevant and to others, it was simply the clone symptons... i admit, when in the form of a sword, a clone does feel as though it is lacking in impact. Not simply speaking of Roy. I'm glad to see that there is a reasonable side to this but i'd like to hear more from the anti-sword party. Varying in sword play is one thing, but to have a sword as merely a small part of the moveset would be tremendous in my opinion ((IMHO, if Isaac did get in, i'd be spin-on-the-floor happy if his sword play was overshadowed or balanced by his synergy))

do your opinions on such fighters vary on the game?? and by this i mean series sorry for deviating

to me the only generic sword user is in LoTR which focused so much on the killing that how it was done was a mere 'meh' just my opinion

 

[smashbot226]

Internet sarcasm is a very difficult language to read. Like fraggin' Aztec to me. Please reassure me that it wasn't sarcasm, or tell me that it was so that I may attempt to defend myself, please?

LOL, my bad...


Well, Takamaru was just another sword using, Japan only combatanant, right?

Well, you've opened my eyes, partially.

 

[True Fool]

LOL, my bad...


Well, Takamaru was just another sword using, Japan only combatanant, right?

Well, you've opened my eyes, partially.

Alright, good good. I'm not exactly sure how these numerous sword-users will all be so different from each other, but I'm sure it's possible. I just need to think of how it's possible, so that I don't have an undefended argument.

 

[billythegoat]

No more swords. Marth was hard enough to deal with.

 

[courte]

i think opinions would be swayed if nintendo took that super noble infused franchise and commissioned sora ltd. to make a

FIRE EMBLEM BURAIDEN!! god knows i'd play it regardless--not lord's only though, and perhaps some type of tag/support system

 

[True Fool]

No more swords. Marth was hard enough to deal with.

No more unintelligent posts. billythegoat was hard enough to deal with.

 

[Red_Revival]

how about instead of no more swords, NO MORE WHINING and learn to play with and against sworded characters. Cmon, I've had infinite fun with Marth, YLink, Link, Roy and more recently Ike, Pit, and MOST OF ALL the uber awesome Meta Knight! Meta Knight is a hell of a lot of fun, and it wouldn't be that way without his sword :D

 

[ZenJestr]

@smashbot226: Takamaru doesnt only have a different fighting style compared to the rest of Nintendo's cast of sword users....he also has some slight magic I guess you can say.....he can chuck kunais at people, fireballs, make a bolt of lightning **** the stage (probably his final smash)...and he can turn invisible for a few seconds...

@billythegoat: please back up your statement...if your complaining that you kept getting ***** by a Marth user then thats no reason...I bet there are a lot of people who got ***** by Foxes and Sheiks and Peaches....but you dont see them screaming 'no more princesses/potatoes/animals in Brawl!!'
and in reality, there were only 2 sword users in Melee because 2 other sword users were practically the same as the original (with some obvious differences)...unless you bring up an intelligent argument your ust gunna get flamed or ignored.....

 

[Bassoonist]

Swords are just another way of fighting.

I don't see people complaining about the majority of characters punching/kicking, so I shouldn't see any complaints about swords either.

We don't even know how big the roster is, so saying "we don't need anymore sword users" is a statement without anything to back it up, and therefore can't be used.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sword users are nice and all but they need to fight with more than blades like Link and Pit.

 

[ZenJestr]

or just fight differently in general...

 

[Puffs]

You're forgetting about Pit and Meta Knight.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

Sword users are nice, especially if they use different styles of swordplay. But I think we need other weapons, such as axes, and lances too.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

I'm actually fine with sword users of any kind so long as their fighting style is appropriate and varied. For example, Pit with twin short-swords/bow, MetaKnight with a swashbuckling style of fighting, Link with his classic hack and slash, and Ike with a more militaristic training...

If we get additional swordsmen, I'd really like to see them be intensely unique. For example:

Takamaru with his katana, could easily perform actual martial arts style artistic swordfighting, in which the sword is more than just a bludgeon for him to beat his enemies with. (See: Link)

Isaac with his gladius styled sword, while he could have a number of your basic 'thwack! slash!' attacks, I think his moveset would be more interesting if a number of his attacks used those huge psynergy based hands that always appear. Imagine just projecting a huge fist crashing down on your enemies :D

Ganondorf with the executioner's sword, I honestly only see him using the sword for either specific Smash Attacks, or a special attack. The rest of his roster should rely on his magic and brute strength. Make him the kind of guy who's just vicious to fight.

As for the return of someone like Marth, he's just fine with his fencing-style fighting...

And for the rest of Fire Emblem... I'm quite certain there are a number of characters who don't rely on swords in the game, but use axes, bows, magic, staves, etc.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

I'm actually fine with sword users of any kind so long as their fighting style is appropriate and varied. For example, Pit with twin short-swords/bow, MetaKnight with a swashbuckling style of fighting, Link with his classic hack and slash, and Ike with a more militaristic training...

If we get additional swordsmen, I'd really like to see them be intensely unique. For example:

Takamaru with his katana, could easily perform actual martial arts style artistic swordfighting, in which the sword is more than just a bludgeon for him to beat his enemies with. (See: Link)

Isaac with his gladius styled sword, while he could have a number of your basic 'thwack! slash!' attacks, I think his moveset would be more interesting if a number of his attacks used those huge psynergy based hands that always appear. Imagine just projecting a huge fist crashing down on your enemies :D

Ganondorf with the executioner's sword, I honestly only see him using the sword for either specific Smash Attacks, or a special attack. The rest of his roster should rely on his magic and brute strength. Make him the kind of guy who's just vicious to fight.

As for the return of someone like Marth, he's just fine with his fencing-style fighting...

And for the rest of Fire Emblem... I'm quite certain there are a number of characters who don't rely on swords in the game, but use axes, bows, magic, staves, etc.

The great Algus speaks.

 

[y3nia659]

There's Link, Pit, Metaknight, Ike, and other possibles Marth, Roy, Takamaru, Isaac, etc and maybe WWLink and Ganondorf using his sword.

To me I think it's too much to stereotype the Fire Emblem franchise and only allowing sword using playables, that's why I think Lyn go kicked out, she was the perfect candidate in everything except she would be just another sword user. Fire Emblem is more than just swords, it includes a variety of important characters who use different weapons and not all of them are "blue haired" swordusers.

Other sword users, im not really for or against that it's just the Fire Emblem series that I'd like to see some unique candidates who use more than just swords.

and all the other physical fighters, well all the playables are physiscal fighters, but you have people shooting fire balls, magic users, fighters that have swallow abilities, singers, hammer users, punchers, but sword users lack any other ability but use their sword (Link and Pit being excemptions).

 

[Algus Underdunk]

The great Algus speaks.

*bows* I descended from a haze of DS goodness to impart wisdom

 

[Big-Cat]

*bows* I descended from a haze of DS goodness to impart wisdom

Where have you been anyway? Having a life?

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

Where have you been anyway? Having a life?

Being here since 2001 with only 255 posts, I'm guessing so.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Where have you been anyway? Having a life?

Being here since 2001 with only 255 posts, I'm guessing so.

Ay, I only pop in and comment when I want, otherwise, I just observe.

But really I've been off relaxing, playing DS and Wii games...

Oh, and finishing this:
http://algus-underdunk.deviantart.com/art/SSBB-Grand-Finale-71326552

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Algus Wins the topic.

I'm of the mindset that I like multiple sword users... just not from the same series.Why should FE get all the fun? There's plenty of mages and other fighters, and they'd be shafting out other swordfighters like Takamaru, Isaac, and what have you.

 

[DynamiteSpoony]

It's not so much an overrepresentation of sword users as it is an overrepresentation of FE characters. There's a lot of sword users that would be great for Brawl, and not all of them are from FE. Oh, and I noticed y'all forgot one - Claus.

And if you've been paying attention to who's being AT'd, it seems like Sakurai's being pretty picky about which swordsmen he's letting in. My guess is that he's keeping out the characters who wouldn't do anything but swing their sword around and allowing room for more variety in the swordsmen he DOES let in.

However, I think Marth will come back. He is the most reoccuring lord and represenative of the series, isn't he?

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

It's not so much an overrepresentation of sword users as it is an overrepresentation of FE characters. There's a lot of sword users that would be great for Brawl, and not all of them are from FE. Oh, and I noticed y'all forgot one - Claus.

And if you've been paying attention to who's being AT'd, it seems like Sakurai's being pretty picky about which swordsmen he's letting in. My guess is that he's keeping out the characters who wouldn't do anything but swing their sword around and allowing room for more variety in the swordsmen he DOES let in.

However, I think Marth will come back. He is the most reoccuring lord and represenative of the series, isn't he?

Yes he is, Marth will come back.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's not so much an overrepresentation of sword users as it is an overrepresentation of FE characters. There's a lot of sword users that would be great for Brawl, and not all of them are from FE. Oh, and I noticed y'all forgot one - Claus.

And if you've been paying attention to who's being AT'd, it seems like Sakurai's being pretty picky about which swordsmen he's letting in. My guess is that he's keeping out the characters who wouldn't do anything but swing their sword around and allowing room for more variety in the swordsmen he DOES let in.

However, I think Marth will come back. He is the most reoccuring lord and represenative of the series, isn't he?

Claus is like 1/2 Meta Knight, 1/4 Samus, 1/8 Lucas, and 1/8 cyborg.

Anyway, I agree about the swordsmen they've AT'd. While movesets are easy to make for them, they aren't all that original.

As for Marth, both he and Ike have appeared in two games each so they're tied for most reoccuring. Although, Marth should return for vet status and being the first Fire Lord alone.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Claus is like 1/2 Meta Knight, 1/4 Samus, 1/8 Lucas, and 1/8 cyborg.

Anyway, I agree about the swordsmen they've AT'd. While movesets are easy to make for them, they aren't all that original.

As for Marth, both he and Ike have appeared in two games each so they're tied for most reoccuring. Although, Marth should return for vet status and being the first Fire Lord alone.

Also, Marth's coming to America.

The very first Fire Emblem game is being remade for the DS, and will be hitting America, so fans of the series can enjoy the start of the franchise, get to know Marth, etc.

 

[Deleted member]

One spanner in this is that all the assist trophy swordmen seem to fight the same, regardless of what sword they have. Just slashes; big or small.

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, not quite.

Goroh does flailing; Lyn does one swift strike; and Saki and Grey Fox fight like mini fighters. Although, they use their swords at one point or another.

 

[Ryudo_Sama]

Also, Marth's coming to America.

The very first Fire Emblem game is being remade for the DS, and will be hitting America, so fans of the series can enjoy the start of the franchise, get to know Marth, etc.

Yep, I can't wait to get that game.

 

[Algus Underdunk]

Well, not quite.

Goroh does flailing; Lyn does one swift strike; and Saki and Grey Fox fight like mini fighters. Although, they use their swords at one point or another.

Er, actually Saki only strikes at you with his sword if you wander close to him. If you're further away, he'll take shots at you with the gun portion of it.

Goroh's essentially doing a wild hack and slash, just flialing his sword.

Lyn appears to be performing Iaido style fighting, in which the sword is quickly pulled from its sheath and used to attack.

Grey Fox is doing reverse-hold fighting which is fairly technical...

So far the three sword-fighters are well varied based on these three examples, really.

Of course, I'm still waiting to see an Assist Trophy of a character on horseback from Fire Emblem... mmm... trampling...

 

[courte]

algus, i am graced by your presence even though i know not who you are, you have given this thread the present of PWNing yet delicate clarification

thank you and merry christmas

syrup & Erika/Ephraim 4 brawl!!

 

[Big-Cat]

algus, i am graced by your presence even though i know not who you are, you have given this thread the present of PWNing yet delicate clarification

thank you and merry christmas

syrup & Erika/Ephraim 4 brawl!!

That's Algus for ya.

 

[smashbot226]

Wait, Syrup???

She has as much chance as the Banana Peel.

And Eirika? She may have a dueling style, like fencing, but I'd rather see Nephenee or Soren over her.

 

[courte]

says the shy guy supporter... lol j/k i know you know he has no chance, but smashbot are you keeping in mind in respect to the franchise??

Yes Sakurai is using newer characters and models as evidenced by Wario.
He is also interested in Female roles and more villians, and while not so appearant today, she is known by fans as Wario's Nemesis ((Not Rival, nemesis)) on top of that, a little bit of retro never hurt.

As for FE, i don't know how much of that retro they're going to give into. Personally, do i expect Ephraim or Eirika in brawl?? Unfortunately No, although i wouldn'y be surpised to see either of them, simply overjoyed. Personally with such a large cast, in FE it's near impossible to tell who's going to make the cut and how many reps their getting...

i also take offense you didn't bother critiquing ephraim!!