"The Act of Balancing” Sakurai Famitsu Column Translation

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Even characters who suck don't have matchups like Shiek vs. Bowser in melee, for example.

This is probably just as bad or worse than Sheik v Bowser

 

[JayJay55]

I literally just got finished playing some online matches with one of my friends, I chose Fox he chose ZSS (and this friend in specific is a casual), the main thing he complained about was Fox's blaster, his complaints were these exact statements: "You're a cheater." and "That's OP." While on the other hand last week while playing with one of my other friends (who actually follows the competitive scene), when I use Fox's blaster I get no complaints, only action.

I know this has already been said MULTIPLE times, but anything will seem OP or too powerful to a casual, so the "Kirby's stone" example, while I completely understand what he's trying to convey, it just doesn't make sense. Sakurai's thought process solidifies my stance on having a new director. No disrespect though, I appreciate the man's work.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

The casual crowd and the "competitive" crowd will never find any genuine form of middle ground in this franchise in terms of gameplay. Super Smash Bros. as it stands now succeeds at what it was meant to do just fine.

 

[2Fat4U]

I love how there are so many casuals on here. Even though this site was made for the competitive smash scene.

 

[2Fat4U]

I love how casuals are getting all salty on here because people want smash 4 to be more competitive. It's kind of annoying because this cite was made specifically for the competitive scene.

 

[2Fat4U]

Of course, but I think people are jumping the gun in saying he's "against competition", or "he should leave".

He's trying his very best to please everybody. People may think balancing the game for anything other than tournament standard is wrong, but there are multiple problems with that claim:

1) Tournament standards change and develop all of the time.

2) The competitive scene has many clashing views as is, there is no agreed upon standard for how most characters should be.

3) Not everyone in the competitive scene even is all that smart. Some people are amazing players, but have terrible foresight or don't have a clear view of how a change to a character might effect the bigger picture, so crying for this nerf or that buff isn't always justified even coming from a top player.

4) We may think casual players don't notice changes, but considering everything outside of playing in tournaments is considered "casual", saying he should not pay attention to how characters work in FFAs, Smash Run, Classic Mode, and all other modes in the game, is basically telling him to be a terrible game designer.



You're literally proving my point. Rather than forming your own well formulated view on the character, you assume Dabuz is the end-all, be-all of Rosalina play just because he placed second in one tournament. Have you ever considered he might have WON that tournament if he didn't play so strictly defensively?

Luma's presence doesn't make her defensive. You can play her that way, but you really should be playing Rosalina as a paradigm shifter - switching up Rosalina and Luma's role combination constantly to best match the tide of battle. Rosalina is incredible at offense, defense, combos, mind-games, etc, and so is Luma - Dabuz only puts focus on one of these for both characters, rather than using all of them to the fullest. It works for him right now, but it won't forever, and it certainly isn't the best way to play her. It's like playing Shulk but only ever using the Smash Monado Art.

Also listing one player of a few characters doesn't mean the competitive scene in the West is varied. It's as varied as a store shelf of Amiibos.

First off there is a lot of salt being shaken all over this l. Second, America has a lot of low teir heroes. Third, Dabuz is one of the greatest smash 4 players I'm pretty sure he's playing Rosalina the most efficient way.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

I love how casuals are getting all salty on here because people want smash 4 to be more competitive. It's kind of annoying because this cite was made specifically for the competitive scene.

You people keep using "competitive". I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[Staticky]

If you are a whiny and entitled child you might see it that way. All he's saying is that from a design standpoint the game is balanced around another playstyle, and that there are other games balanced for competitive play. You are the one getting offended by that statement because he's being upfront and saying that he is catering to multiple audiences.

Except he doesn't talk about how the game is based around another playstyle!!! He talks about how he has to keep a balance between competitive and casual balancing in the article, then pretty much states that he favors casuals in the balancing. "If you don't like it balanced this way, then go play another game". People LOVE this game competitively. So many people have stuck through each title, or just one installment, and really put their hearts into playing the game competitively. When Sakurai says, "Find another game if you want competitive play" It is very offensive. I and alot of people don't even like other fighting games. I also don't understand how this makes me entitled either, I guess if I complain about tripping then I am entitled and whiny also.

 

[Gawain]

Except he doesn't talk about how the game is based around another playstyle!!! He talks about how he has to keep a balance between competitive and casual balancing in the article, then pretty much states that he favors casuals in the balancing. "If you don't like it balanced this way, then go play another game". People LOVE this game competitively. So many people have stuck through each title, or just one installment, and really put their hearts into playing the game competitively. When Sakurai says, "Find another game if you want competitive play" It is very offensive. I and alot of people don't even like other fighting games. I also don't understand how this makes me entitled either, I guess if I complain about tripping then I am entitled and whiny also.

Don't push your strawman argument on me. I won't put up with it.

You are only interpreting it that way because that's what you want to hear. I don't know why but Smashers have this obnoxious anti-authority figure attitude a lot of the time. All he said was that the games are balanced to cater to as many styles as possible. What the Sakurai hate bandwagon calls for is nothing but catering to one side. It really is as simple as that. No amount of silly strawmen will change it.

The only respectable argument I've heard in this regard is that you don't have to avoid catering to competitive people to cater to casuals, which I agree with for the most part. It's still a flawed point when you consider game design bit it's better than "hurr i hate sakurai who needs him XD XD", which I'm frankly tired of seeing. It's his series right now. He does with it what he wants as is his right

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

Except he doesn't talk about how the game is based around another playstyle!!! He talks about how he has to keep a balance between competitive and casual balancing in the article, then pretty much states that he favors casuals in the balancing. "If you don't like it balanced this way, then go play another game".

I get the feeling that if the "competitive" community wasn't as loud as it was with how it wants Super Smash Bros. to play then he'd care less about making Super Smash Bros. "competitive". He's always favored casuals since the beginning; Super Smash Bros. was designed to be more casual-friendly and more appealing to a very diverse audience than virtually every other fighting game out there.

People LOVE this game competitively. So many people have stuck through each title, or just one installment, and really put their hearts into playing the game competitively. When Sakurai says, "Find another game if you want competitive play" It is very offensive. I and alot of people don't even like other fighting games. I also don't understand how this makes me entitled either, I guess if I complain about tripping then I am entitled and whiny also.

Define "competitive".

Don't push your strawman argument on me. I won't put up with it.

You are only interpreting it that way because that's what you want to hear. I don't know why but Smashers have this obnoxious anti-authority figure attitude a lot of the time. All he said was that the games are balanced to cater to as many styles as possible. What the Sakurai hate bandwagon calls for is nothing but catering to one side. It really is as simple as that. No amount of silly strawmen will change it.

The only respectable argument I've heard in this regard is that you don't have to avoid catering to competitive people to cater to casuals, which I agree with for the most part. It's still a flawed point when you consider game design bit it's better than "hurr i hate sakurai who needs him XD XD", which I'm frankly tired of seeing. It's his series right now. He does with it what he wants as is his right

If he wants my money then the b*tch better do what I say.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Balancing is hard if you have to make the character's moves unique while referencing their games.

Sure would be nice if Sakurai did any of that.

 

[Quarium]

Well... making Rock more viable would also mean it kinda requires less skill to use. Also, the dude it's obviously catering to our needs as well as the casuals. There's a reason he nerfed Diddy, stop trying to hard to find reasons to criticize the dude so much lol.

 

[Staticky]

Don't push your strawman argument on me. I won't put up with it.

You are only interpreting it that way because that's what you want to hear. I don't know why but Smashers have this obnoxious anti-authority figure attitude a lot of the time. All he said was that the games are balanced to cater to as many styles as possible. What the Sakurai hate bandwagon calls for is nothing but catering to one side. It really is as simple as that. No amount of silly strawmen will change it.

The only respectable argument I've heard in this regard is that you don't have to avoid catering to competitive people to cater to casuals, which I agree with for the most part. It's still a flawed point when you consider game design bit it's better than "hurr i hate sakurai who needs him XD XD", which I'm frankly tired of seeing. It's his series right now. He does with it what he wants as is his right

Strawman argument? Dude all your doing is dismissing my argument, instead of opposing it. You throw the word "game design perspectives" around and stuff like that like Sakurai's decisions are perfect. I really, really didn't want to say this but you're just a Sakurai fanboy. I say my opinion and you call me entitled and whiny, tell me that "from a game design perspective it is the right choice". I do think about it from a design perspective, and it still doesnt work!
I'm not saying these because it's "What I want to hear". Your acting like I'm completely one sided and putting up terrible arguments, which is "what you want to hear" from anyone opposing your beloved game director.

 

[Staticky]

Sure would be nice if Sakurai did any of that.

@ Gawain
This is an example of a Sakurai hater. Not me

 

[Gawain]

If he wants my money then the b*tch better do what I say.

You are just one person out of millions that buy the game. Hardly relevant.

Strawman argument? Dude all your doing is dismissing my argument, instead of opposing it. You throw the word "game design perspectives" around and stuff like that like Sakurai's decisions are perfect. I really, really didn't want to say this but you're just a Sakurai fanboy. I say my opinion and you call me entitled and whiny, tell me that "from a game design perspective it is the right choice". I do think about it from a design perspective, and it still doesnt work!
I'm not saying these because it's "What I want to hear". Your acting like I'm completely one sided and putting up terrible arguments, which is "what you want to hear" from anyone opposing your beloved game director.

I never said Sakurais designs are perfect: all i said were that they were HIS designs for HIS game. I don't really agree with his design decisions, but his designs are what made a multi million sale franchise, you can't argue with solid results. You are still trying to put words in my mouth to create your argument. As long as you keep doing that there isn't really anything for me to do but dismiss them. Put forward a well structured and backed by proof argument and I'll take it seriously.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

You are just one person out of millions that buy the game. Hardly relevant.

I know that. I typed that response to see who'd say what to me first. And I'd hate to break it to you; but that is ultimately the bottom line of the relationship between consumer and producer regardless of how many people are involved.

 

[The Abyss22]

I believe that sakurai has done a great deal for smash, however this does not dismiss the fact that smash is a FIGHTING game. When I hear fighting game I do not imagine a party game. It seems that he is trying to find a fine line between casual and hardcore/pro and it is no where to be found at all. Telling fans to "play another game" just because we want things to be truly balanced to me is a bit childish imo. If the casuals don't notice the difference then why does the balancing aspect have to revolve around them? Clearly that is a problem. I think that smash can be very hardcore, if the casuals are lost make the game easy to approach ( which it already is.) I think that smash bros needs a new director to take smash bros where it needs to be. A competitive game that is approachable by the casual scene.

 

[42rockjock]

I've pretty much given up on Sakurai making a smash game that's fun to play causally AND competitively. It's funny how even the creator of smash 4 finds the game boring to watch on a competitive level. It really doesn't have to be like this Sakurai. Hell, you made melee and that game to this day is still fun to play causally and competitively it's the most enjoyable to watch after all these years. Well, until smash gets a new director I'm definitely sticking with PM. The development team actually listens to the fans and still keeps the game fun to play on both levels.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I've pretty much given up on Sakurai making a smash game that's fun to play causally AND competitively. It's funny how even the creator of smash 4 finds the game boring to watch on a competitive level. It really doesn't have to be like this Sakurai. Hell, you made melee and that game to this day is still fun to play causally and competitively it's the most enjoyable to watch after all these years. Well, until smash gets a new director I'm definitely sticking with PM. The development team actually listens to the fans and still keeps the game fun to play on both levels.

It was called smash 64 son, I guess you were still in diapers so you never knew.

 

[Gawain]

I know that. I typed that response to see who'd say what to me first. And I'd hate to break it to you; but that is ultimately the bottom line of the relationship between consumer and producer regardless of how many people are involved.

And I had a feeling you might retort with this, and unfortunately this point fails to understand that your opinion is a tremendous minority in terms of thw Smash franchise's audience. Competitive Smash Is probably łess than a tenth of the total consumer base for this series. Thoughadmittedly it has grown in spades in recent years. Perhaps by the time the next Smash comes out your comment will hold a lot more weight. But add it stands it actually works against you.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Right, "balancing" more like taking anything that would offend or make someone not want to buy the games. So they make it more and more simplistic. Thanks.

 

[The Abyss22]

Right, "balancing".

Yes balancing.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Yes balancing.

Sure.

 

[The Abyss22]

Sure.

Sure it needs balancing.

 

[aethermaster]

Okay this is all nice and dandy and there are some agreeable and not so agreeable moments in this interview but my question still remains

Who the f*** balanced Brawl? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[42rockjock]

It was called smash 64 son, I guess you were still in diapers so you never knew.

I was actually wasn't in diapers when smash 64 dropped but whatever keep making ignorant assumptions lol. Don't get me wrong I liked 64 on both levels but melee was far more entertaining back then and still is. My point still stands sticking with PM and Melee for a fun causal AND competitive experience

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll concede the latter without question, but the former is highly subjective. Sakurai also made Melee and Brawl, which as we all know have horribly skewed balanced around 8 and 1-2 characters respectively.



Because all the cool alternate costumes and stages, as well as Turbo, (Wraparound) Stamina, and All-Star modes are totally only geared for competitive players that will never use them. Plus the possibility of entirely new characters not in any other Smash title is also totally just so that competitive players can get new toys.


Nowadays it's just M. Not an initial, not an acronym or whatever fancy term you would think, just M. The name's origins don't matter at this point, the past is the past.

Let me start from the top.

Yes he did balance other smash titles, Smash 4 by far is the best balanced of the bunch, you could argue 64 but I do not buy that for a second.

Yes I am aware of the second paragraph. I admit this, All-star>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smash Tour, by a long shot. The end battle in smash tour is what I always wanted. Skins are a throw away. Here have melee characters in their melee skins again, that is what some are. Not Link, Toon Link, Ness and Lucas but you get the point. A lot are added for Melee and nothing more.

The last part, you are right on name but I refuse to admit on actions. Until PM does away with bad Melee design I refuse personally to call it nothing more than Project Melee.

It needs to stop the bias catering in balance and game play, L-canceling needs to die a horrible death and never come back.

When it does I will stop dropping the name as such.

Of course. I understand. The reasons we've talked about before is why I've dropped Smash 4. I'm not forcing it on myself. No need to worry about that.

I'd just like to point out I'm not faulting Sakurai for trying to please multiple audiences. What I am against is just the methods that determine balance changes. However I can't see online as a good measure for character balance on a highly skilled competitive level. You want as little lag as possible in local play, and this is what tournaments consist of. I guess it can serve as a measure for the intermediate skill players as Sakurai is aiming for that as his primary target audience.

This is where we disagree, as a league player you can't throw that away. That matters for a lot of your player base and how you can determine what is good and bad.

Yes bad internet can happen, but it won't always be the case.

 

[Kati]

None of the compares to the time Fox butterfly kicked Wolf, or when Falcon started using Taekwondo on Black Shadow.

Rosalina is a very defensive character, what are you talking about? She probably has one of the best defensive game in the game.

Falcon was depicted using unarmed combat back when the first f zero came out.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

I believe that sakurai has done a great deal for smash, however this does not dismiss the fact that smash is a FIGHTING game. When I hear fighting game I do not imagine a party game. It seems that he is trying to find a fine line between casual and hardcore/pro and it is no where to be found at all. Telling fans to "play another game" just because we want things to be truly balanced to me is a bit childish imo. If the casuals don't notice the difference then why does the balancing aspect have to revolve around them? Clearly that is a problem. I think that smash can be very hardcore, if the casuals are lost make the game easy to approach ( which it already is.) I think that smash bros needs a new director to take smash bros where it needs to be. A competitive game that is approachable by the casual scene.

If there is no fine line between casual and hardcore/pro then why suggest making it a "competitive" game that can be approached by casuals? It was never designed to be "competitive" in the first place yet no one cares and keep badgering the guy to make it little more than another Street Fighter clone.

 

[Zoa]

This is where we disagree, as a league player you can't throw that away. That matters for a lot of your player base and how you can determine what is good and bad.

Yes bad internet can happen, but it won't always be the case.

I'll need you to clarify the first paragraph. The wording is too vague to make out what you're trying to specify.

 

[The Abyss22]

If there is no fine line between casual and hardcore/pro then why suggest making it a "competitive" game that can be approached by casuals? It was never designed to be "competitive" in the first place yet no one cares and keep badgering the guy to make it little more than another Street Fighter clone.

As time goes on the scene changes. Exactly my point there is no fine line its either your a competitive player or casual player. Trying to find a middle ground with a fighting game will get sakurai nowhere. By making the game easy to approach casuals can make progress in any fighting game, But can't cry over spilt milk the game released and it looks like we'll have to wait for a new director to make those decisions.

 

[PCHU]

Traditionally, of course people want to stray away from using many high-risk moves, but it doesn't help when a lot of moves were made worse in the transfer; Ganondorf may be overall better, but he can't shorthop autocancel his dair like he used to be able to, and neither can Wario.
Dedede lost his best aerial, and a lot of moves in general that are made to chain end up not chaining a lot.
I'd like a variety of good tools I can use rather than a few meant for general use with the rest being a lot more situational.
It also doesn't help that a lot of characters took a range reduction, but that's enough complaining for one post.

That's not to say there aren't good characters (CF, Mario, and Yoshi are pretty solid and actually fun because of it), but I'd like the other characters to be smooth as well.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

As time goes on the scene changes. Exactly my point there is no fine line its either your a competitive player or casual player. Trying to find a middle ground with a fighting game will get sakurai nowhere. By making the game easy to approach casuals can make progress in any fighting game, But can't cry over spilt milk the game released and it looks like we'll have to wait for a new director to make those decisions.

That does not answer my question as to why you believe the game should be "competitive" even when Super Smash Bros. as a whole is designed to be the opposite, which is a small amount of simple control schemes that are easy to learn and master while appealing to a far broader audience than what "competitive" fighting games achieved? You can only go so far in making any game "competitive" before casual appeal starts going away and vice-versa, and the "competitive" crowd's ideal Smash doesn't seem to have any casual appeal aside of the roster whatsoever.

 

[The Abyss22]

That does not answer my question as to why you believe the game should be "competitive" even when Super Smash Bros. as a whole is designed to be the opposite, which is a small amount of simple control schemes that are easy to learn and master while appealing to a far broader audience than what "competitive" fighting games achieved? You can only go so far in making any game "competitive" before casual appeal starts going away and vice-versa, and the "competitive" crowd's ideal Smash doesn't seem to have any casual appeal aside of the roster whatsoever.

Sorry for not answering your question. The reason I feel like this game should be competitive and has the potential to be is because its a fighting game. I understand that smash is geared towards casuals, but the competitive scene loves smash just as much as the casuals who don't notice the slightest change to an individual character at all. Sakurai gives himself unnecessary work by trying to balance the game around casuals instead of looking at it from the other side of the spectrum. He bashes competitive players and tells them to "play other games". A game developer shouldn't tell his fans that.

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

Sorry for not answering your question. The reason I feel like this game should be competitive and has the potential to be is because its a fighting game. I understand that smash is geared towards casuals, but the competitive scene loves smash just as much as the casuals who don't notice the slightest change to an individual character at all. Sakurai gives himself unnecessary work by trying to balance the game around casuals instead of looking at it from the other side of the spectrum. He bashes competitive players and tells them to "play other games". A game developer shouldn't tell his fans that.

From my perspective, video games in and of themselves are not competitive; only the people who play them are competitive, and I use competitive in the context of "having a need to compete" rather than what the majority of fighting game's user base uses. I understand that it is a fighting game, as in a game where you fight with characters, but that does not mean it has to be like "traditional" fighting games by default (i.e. the Street Fighter franchise from II onward and every fighting game that heavily draws from it), and I have the impression that that's what the "competitive" user base wants Super Smash Bros. to be in spite of what Masahiro Sakurai (and Nintendo by some extent) wants it to be. Him telling them to "play other games" is one of the nicest ways of him saying that Super Smash Bros. will not appeal to them and that they're better off spending their time with another game. He has already established that he's not going to turn Super Smash Bros. into an overall "competitive" fighter.
Also, of course "casuals" won't notice too much of any differences made to a Super Smash Bros. game, but I feel that that label has been misapplied to too many people by many of the "competitive" crowd.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Sure it needs balancing.

Sure does and some techniques or something to look representable.

 

[Kabutops]

Furthermore, if I went with what is fair according to advanced players, the beginners wouldn’t be able to keep up. For example, Kirby’s Stone attack probably won’t hit a player above intermediate skill level, but if I made it more powerful, it would destroy beginners.

At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games.

Can we all agree that this is the final nail in the coffin to any prospect of there ever being a balanced smash game?

 

[Blue Sun Studios]

Can we all agree that this is the final nail in the coffin to any prospect of there ever being a balanced smash game?

That depends on your concept of "balance" and whether or not you value your concept of "balance" over your desire of virtually completely faithful representation of each and every character. Either way you will find your preferences clashing with several other people's preferences, and possibly hostilely clashing at that being in a user base as diverse and large as Super Smash Bros'.

 

[SpandexBullets]

If I was to make one criticism, it's actually quite a simple one.

Why did you deliberately make Zero Suit Samus 100% better than regular samus and give her two alt costumes from 2 different games and samus only has recolours from Brawl?

That's just a kick in the teeth for Metroid fans because the character is reduced to cheap sex appeal, and thats a bad thing considering that Samus is supposed to be Nintendos flagship strong female character.

I know that this costume is prominent in like 0.01% of each game, but after Other M, I feel lile we're gonna start seeing ZSS a WHOLE lot more, so I'm still very annoyed that Samus was purpously left slightly buffed and ZSS took all priority, seeing as she was finished by the Invitational where Sakurai openly encouraged people to play ZSS AND NOT SAMUS.

AAARGH

 

[Kabutops]

This is probably just as bad or worse than Sheik v Bowser

Literally dropping smash 4 after watching that video. Thanks.

....over your desire of virtually completely faithful representation of each and every character.

Isn't that impossible though. If we had a completely faithful representation of each character then Mario could only jump up & down. He can be faithful to the overall style in a vague sense but sakurai ultimately has to take some creative liberties when creating a character's moveset doesn't he?