"The Act of Balancing” Sakurai Famitsu Column Translation

[S_B]

This is probably just as bad or worse than Sheik v Bowser

1. That's ZeRo he's facing, probably the best player in the world.

2. That Mac wasn't exactly amazing: he did the classic "Stupid Mac" maneuver of dash attacking a shielding opponent at the ledge on at least one occasion.

Plus, he actually landed hits on Shiek. Melee's Shiek v. Bowser matchup was basically impossible because one landed grab and Bowser is dead.

I'm not going to claim 4 is perfectly balanced, but I feel like the rifts between characters are the smallest they've been in any SSB game to date, and I'm usually the first one to crap all over Sakurai so that's saying something...

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

1. That's ZeRo he's facing, probably the best player in the world.

2. That Mac wasn't exactly amazing: he did the classic "Stupid Mac" maneuver of dash attacking a shielding opponent at the ledge on at least one occasion.

Plus, he actually landed hits on Shiek. Melee's Shiek v. Bowser matchup was basically impossible because one landed grab and Bowser is dead.

I'm not going to claim 4 is perfectly balanced, but I feel like the rifts between characters are the smallest they've been in any SSB game to date, and I'm usually the first one to crap all over Sakurai so that's saying something...

While that may be ZeRo, he isn't doing anything ground breaking. He is camping the platforms and fishing for Fairs. Something any average Sheik can do (I hope). Notice how every single time he lands a Fair, it leads to an edgeguard scenario where the Mac player can be killed at any time? That's pretty much just as bad as the chaingrab Melee Sheik has on Bowser. Except instead of reacting Bowser's DI and techrolls, you react to Mac's Double Jump and airdodges.

And this is a set being played in Winners Quarters at a fairly sizable tournament, so the Mac player won more than a few matches to get there. He's probably Dash Attacking because he doesn't know what to do against a frame 4 lagless aerial that can potentially end his stock at any point in the match (Granted, Dash Attack is the worst choice).

And landing hits is an indication that the matchup is winnable? Bowser can get those hits too. Up-B out of shield will land at least once. But just like Mac, they'll be meaningless hits most of the time. Whereas Sheik only needs one Fair (or one grab in Melee, which is typically harder to get btw), and the stock is potentially over.

Not to mention the set ending in less than 4 minutes, a feat almost impossible in Melee, no matter how great the disparity in player skill may be. In a game people criticize for being too slow and defensive.

 

[S_B]

While that may be ZeRo, he isn't doing anything ground breaking. He is camping the platforms and fishing for Fairs. Something any average Sheik can do (I hope). Notice how every single time he lands a Fair, it leads to an edgeguard scenario where the Mac player can be killed at any time? That's pretty much just as bad as the chaingrab Melee Sheik has on Bowser. Except instead of reacting Bowser's DI and techrolls, you react to Mac's Double Jump and airdodges.

And this is a set being played in Winners Quarters at a fairly sizable tournament, so the Mac player won more than a few matches to get there. He's probably Dash Attacking because he doesn't know what to do against a frame 4 lagless aerial that can potentially end his stock at any point in the match (Granted, Dash Attack is the worst choice).

And landing hits is an indication that the matchup is winnable? Bowser can get those hits too. Up-B out of shield will land at least once. But just like Mac, they'll be meaningless hits most of the time. Whereas Sheik only needs one Fair (or one grab in Melee, which is typically harder to get btw), and the stock is potentially over.

It's still not as bad as Melee was for many characters, and Shiek, while probably still needing some nerfs, is nowhere near as bad as MK in Brawl.

Really, the problem here is that Shiek is still a bit too powerful, not that the entire game is horribly unbalanced like most of the previous titles.

If you swapped players and had ZeRo play LM in that matchup, I don't think it would seem quite as bad.

Not saying that characters don't have bad matchups in this game, but again, there's a point where no amount of technical skill would help a Bowser player beat a Shiek player in Melee and I just don't think we have any situations like that here yet.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

It's still not as bad as Melee was for many characters, and Shiek, while probably still needing some nerfs, is nowhere near as bad as MK in Brawl.

Really, the problem here is that Shiek is still a bit too powerful, not that the entire game is horribly unbalanced like most of the previous titles.

If you swapped players and had ZeRo play LM in that matchup, I don't think it would seem quite as bad.

Not saying that characters don't have bad matchups in this game, but again, there's a point where no amount of technical skill would help a Bowser player beat a Shiek player in Melee and I just don't think we have any situations like that here yet.

Having no answer to platform camping or needles whatsoever, while also being the only gimpable character in the game against one of the best edgeguarding tools in Smash history.

You think that's a winnable matchup?

What does Little Mac do to win?

Please enlighten me.

(For the record, I'm not arguing that Melee is more balanced. That is just objectively false. I think 64 is the most balanced game. But you said there are no unwinnable matchups. This may be the only one, but it still counts XD)

 

[S_B]

What does Little Mac do to win?

Have ZeRo play LM and the other guy play Shiek. You'll see him win then.

Also, I never said there were no unwinnable matchups, just that it isn't as bad as it was in Melee where one grab on Bowser by Shiek meant instant chaingrab death where Bowser would literally get 0-deathed without dealing even a single point of damage.

As I said, the problem is really that Shiek is very, VERY strong, still. She f-air escorts most of the cast across the stage and I wouldn't be sad to see her get nerfed.

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

Have ZeRo play LM and the other guy play Shiek. You'll see him win then.

Also, I never said there were no unwinnable matchups, just that it isn't as bad as it was in Melee where one grab on Bowser by Shiek meant instant chaingrab death where Bowser would literally get 0-deathed without dealing even a single point of damage.

As I said, the problem is really that Shiek is very, VERY strong, still. She f-air escorts most of the cast across the stage and I wouldn't be sad to see her get nerfed.

Sheik - Bowser is unwinnable.
You said there are no matchups worse than that.
Thus implying that there are no unwinnable matchups.

Unless you have like an Unwinnable Scale, or something.

 

[S_B]

Sheik - Bowser is unwinnable.
You said there are no matchups worse than that.
Thus implying that there are no unwinnable matchups.

I said there are no matchups as BAD as that, and there aren't. We don't have a guaranteed 0-death chaingrab in this game that I'm aware of.

And once again, you're using a video of the best SSB4 player in the world playing what he personally feels is the best character in the game and using that as your argument.

Here's a video of ZeRo beating Iori's pre-nerf Diddy with Bowser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqq_bP680vs

Does this mean Diddy didn't need nerfs?

Also: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zero+little+mac

 

[Alfonzo Bagpipez]

I said there are no matchups as BAD as that, and there aren't. We don't have a guaranteed 0-death chaingrab in this game that I'm aware of.

And once again, you're using a video of the best SSB4 player in the world playing what he personally feels is the best character in the game and using that as your argument.

Here's a video of ZeRo beating Iori's pre-nerf Diddy with Bowser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqq_bP680vs

Does this mean Diddy didn't need nerfs?

No. It means Bowser is a viable character

 

[S_B]

No. It means Bowser is a viable character

Any character is a viable character in the hands of ZeRo.

 

[LimitCrown]

It is probably very difficult to balance Super Smash Bros. for both 4-player free-for-alls, which is the main type of gameplay overall, and 1v1 matches, which is the main type of gameplay used by the competitive community. If characters are balanced around 1v1 matches, then it won't really guarantee that those characters would be adequately balanced in free-for-all matches as well. I can understand what Sakurai is stating.

Also, it doesn't seem that shields in Smash 4 are any stronger than they were in Brawl. They're less durable now because they take the full amount of damage from attacks.

 

[Spaghetti Sammy]

Why did Sakurai say "play other 2d fighters if you want more technical and face paced gameplay" instead of "play Melee or somethin"

Sakurai pretty much pulled a sick burn on himself.
But I generally agree with him. Also his little thoughts of Smash 4 tournaments being "drawn out and long" is probably his old Melee mindset seeping through. (￢◞ ￢)

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

Man, Sakurai... You are the only game developer I know that would tell a section of its fan base that they are "better suited another fighting game."

I respect the man for bring the series to us. I also really do think he did a good job with Smash 4. If he was going for a game that is fun competitively and casually, I think he got it mostly right with Smash 4. It just once again, he contradicts himself. He says he's not biased towards the series he works on, and that is true. The kids Icarus and Kirby characters are mid tier on average according to the community. Still, odd how Smash run is so heavily influenced by Kirby Air Ride mini games and Kid Icarus: Uprising. Not including all the other content added in from Uprising.

I guess you could bring up the argument it sold 1.18 million units by March 2013 but what about series who didn't get as much representation? Donkey Kong Country Returns on the 3DS sold 1.43 million units by December 2013. Not to mention it was a port of the Wii tittle and Nintendo/Retro made Tropical Freeze soon after that also saw success. So why is Kid Icarus so heavily repped in Smash and Donkey Kong isn't?

But it's whatever. Legend of Zelda and Metriod are my two favorite series from Nintendo and not much added for them either. LoZ did get a little more than Metriod though so.

Either way, Smash 4 is way more enjoyable than Brawl to me and I think he did a good job with it. Still, I really would like it if Smash's sequel was handled by another equally talented director. Nintendo has them in spades.

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

I have to say, I have deep respect for Mr. Sakurai-san for going out of his way for trying to provide the best experience of Super Smash Bros. possible for both casual and competitive players, even at the expense of his own health. It pains me dearly that many people on the Western side of the Super Smash Community would find every petty reason possible to emotionally tear him apart.

 

[SilverBacKong]

As a junior game designer, I have to agree with sakurai : at the end of the day, the fun factor is the single most important thing .

Accusing him of favoring his own characters (franchises he worked on) is accusing him of being childish and unprofessionnal, which is an insult to his work.

Smash is the only brawler that encapsulates such a variety of playstiles, from frame-data frantics to all out fun guys that laugh at their own mistakes. This is its most incredible feat.

It also contains a ****-laod of content for collectors, achievers, solo-lovers, killers...

And the other thing I agree on as a designer : perfect balance is bland, without taste and fun. A game needs interesting and varied matchups, pros and cons, things for the player's minds to work on, figure out, enjoy and challenge themselves with.

Nothing is more satisfying than KNOWING your character is lower tiered than another but still beating him. Or being in a disadvantaged matchup and mind-gaming your way to victory.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

What a very...Sakurai point of view.

While I love the man dearly and have always been a massive fan of his work, I honestly do think that the next Smash game could benefit from a director with a different mindset. I understand and respect Sakurai's point of view, but I don't think that competitive and casual experiences are mutually exclusive, and that's what I'm getting from this.

This. Competitive and casual mindsets do not have to be so segregated. Often decisions that make for a healthy competitive game also make the game often more fun casually as well, i've found.(such as project m where the characters all felt very fluid and interesting right from the start to me atleast)

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I have to say, I have deep respect for Mr. Sakurai-san for going out of his way for trying to provide the best experience of Super Smash Bros. possible for both casual and competitive players, even at the expense of his own health. It pains me dearly that many people on the Western side of the Super Smash Community would find every petty reason possible to emotionally tear him apart.

Because these kids in the western world Who complain have no training in anything except smash brothers, they don't even have a workable definition of competition and like all children want a way to boost themselves and bring everyone else down.

 

[NoMarthLeftBehind]

Pit? Not powerful enough?



HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[vboy97]

I agree with Sakurai's position here. Smash 4 is basically suited for all general playstyles whether it be aggressive like (Falcon/Mac) or defensive (Rosalina). It's the only Smash Bros game (other than like 64) to really hit the sweet spot of being in between casual and competitive.

One thing that this game doesn't need is being another Melee. People who complain endlessly about the game not being Melee just need to give it a freaking rest already. Smash Bros doesn't have to be Melee to be successful.

I think they should add in the airdodge from melee. In smash 4, the lvl 9 cpu's airdodge the fk out of me haha.. Melee has mechanics that I would love to see in smash 4. I'm still rooting for a melee hd remake aswell, that would solve all my problems, although Nintendo has only released 1 smash game per Nintendo console. BUT I HAVE FAITH ;(

 

[HyperL]

Another problem we have to consider is that battles can take on many formats in Smash. There are moves that are completely useless in a 1v1 battle, but in a four-player free-for-all those moves might prove quite useful. Therefore, if I played only one kind of battle, the game would feel very slanted towards a particular style of play.

That's the only thing that made me sad. If only they did the balance focusing on 1v1 battles, most of the problems in the competitive scenery could have been resolved.

 

[ZeruSlayer]

Why did Sakurai say "play other 2d fighters if you want more technical and face paced gameplay" instead of "play Melee or somethin"

Sakurai pretty much pulled a sick burn on himself.
But I generally agree with him. Also his little thoughts of Smash 4 tournaments being "drawn out and long" is probably his old Melee mindset seeping through. (￢◞ ￢

It's like creating a game where majority of moves are unsafe (creating a defensive environment) and adding in a mechanic that forces players to constantly play safe (rage) was supposed to make games end quickly...what?

I don't know what to facepalm to, Sakurai or the playtesters who didn't see this coming.

 

[the101]

I think sakurai is biased in that a series that has been going on for ... 30+ years like DONKEY KONG gets no NEW additional characters, but one new stage being their 5th best selling series of all time while kid icarus not only gets paletuna & dark pit, but a few new stages to go with it. And kid icarus is the 21st best selling Nintendo ip of all time. In terms of sales and amount of kid icarus content in smash there is definately some bias love somewhere for kid icarus in the development team. Donkey kong didn't even get a new assist trophy in smash. WUT! The bias lies in smash content rather than character buffing. : P Wario also got the same dry treatment DK got, and I'm not even a Wario fan.

To be fair, Sakurai never developed the roster with the mindset of sales. As a gamer in his own life I would say Sakurai likes Donkey Kong as much as any Nintendo fan would. If you look at Brawl's development, originally Dixie Kong was suppose to be part of a tag team with Diddy Kong. This is a concept straight out of Donkey Kong Country 2, and given that Diddy and Dixie's relevance at the time was very, very small I'm pleasantly surprised they attempted that at all.

I assume it was conceptually easier for Sakurai to reuse assets from Kid Icarus Uprising when designing stages on Smash 3DS, while Jungle Japes was simply the product of trying to get Brawl to run on the Nintendo 3DS when development first began. As for Smash Wii U, Skyworld is of a similar situation as a returning Brawl stage. In terms of the Donkey Kong series, I really don'the understand this sense of bias when Jungle Hijinx acts as the best DK stage that's ever been in Smash, with its unique duel-plane mechanic and barrel cannons being excellent references to the DKC series. Kongo Jungle 64, by comparision, had to be made from scratch, essentially making it a completely new stage. That took more development time than Dark Pit needed.

 

[LordKKs]

Thats why smash is better of with the true fans of the game, like the PM team.

Sakurai created a great idea with smash, now is time for the people that really care about it, to envolve and create the future of competitve play.

Also, f*ck beginners, no mercy for the weak.

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

...now is time for the people that really care about it, to envolve and create the future of competitve play.

Also, f*ck beginners, no mercy for the weak.

In other words, you want Mr. Sakurai to make the next Super Smash title suitable for only competitive players while ignoring the much larger casual crowd, the people whom have made Super Smash Bros. a household title from the start?

If that's the case, then I don't see how the franchise is going to last much longer under that sort of mentality.

 

[PhantomShab]

In other words, you want Mr. Sakurai to make the next Super Smash title suitable for only competitive players while ignoring the much larger casual crowd, the people whom have made Super Smash Bros. a household title from the start?

If that's the case, then I don't see how the franchise is going to last much longer under that sort of mentality.

Casuals stilled enjoyed Melee despite it's mechanics and competitive scene. They enjoyed Smash 64, which also has it's competitive following. They aren't going to tell the difference or even care if a Smash game was built around competitive play. That comes with the territory of being casual.

Having another competitive Smash game would please everybody. It's a win-win.

 

[Syrek]

Thats why smash is better of with the true fans of the game, like the PM team.

Sakurai created a great idea with smash, now is time for the people that really care about it, to envolve and create the future of competitve play.

Also, f*ck beginners, no mercy for the weak.

It's comments like these that make you wonder how someone can be SO arrogant and ignorant enough as to say such drivel. My mind cannot comprehend this disgusting line of thinking.

 

[Bones0]

If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for [Melee].

Fix'd.

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

Casuals stilled enjoyed Melee despite it's mechanics and competitive scene. They enjoyed Smash 64, which also has it's competitive following. They aren't going to tell the difference or even care if a Smash game was built around competitive play. That comes with the territory of being casual.

But here's the one thing that makes this claim questionable at best: Masahiro Sakurai has never intended Super Smash Bros. to be designed for purely competitive players from the start.

Having another competitive Smash game would please everybody. It's a win-win.

...that is, it's a win-win for everybody within the "competitive" minority while the casual majority loses out through excessively complex button inputs.
Sorry, but there's simply no way the next Super Smash title will have that great of a chance faring well if it was designed for only the competitive scene. Most people nowadays prefer their matches to be simple. I think Sm4sh, after receiving several updates, has done pretty well in that concept.

 

[PhantomShab]

But here's the one thing that makes this claim questionable at best: Masahiro Sakurai has never intended Super Smash Bros. to be designed for purely competitive players from the start.

So? Does that mean Sakurai should just ignore a whole portion of the fanbase? Smash games have no future with a competitive mindset, you say? Go look at freaking Melee still being played over a decade after release. It's the competitive players who are dedicated enough to keep a game living that long.

...that is, it's a win-win for everybody within the "competitive" minority while the casual majority loses out through excessively complex button inputs.
Sorry, but there's simply no way the next Super Smash title will have that great of a chance faring well if it was designed for only the competitive scene. Most people nowadays prefer their matches to be simple. I think Sm4sh, after receiving several updates, has done pretty well in that concept.

What "complex button imputs"? Smash has always had a simple gameplay style, like what are you even talking about? Casuals will suddenly not know how to do smash attacks or grabs or somehing? Like I said, casuals wouldn't care one way or the other as long as they have a new Smash game to mess around with.

Complex button imputs. lmao

 

[Mr. Oshawott]

So? Does that mean Sakurai should just ignore a whole portion of the fanbase? Smash games have no future with a competitive mindset, you say? Go look at freaking Melee still being played over a decade after release. It's the competitive players who are dedicated enough to keep a game living that long.

I'm not at all saying that he should disregard the competitive scene completely, it's just that the competitive crowd shouldn't be forcing him to disregard the much larger "non-competitive" fan base outside of it just to satisfy their ever-whimsical viewpoints and demands.

What "complex button imputs"? Smash has always had a simple gameplay style, like what are you even talking about? Casuals will suddenly not know how to do smash attacks or grabs or somehing? Like I said, casuals wouldn't care one way or the other as long as they have a new Smash game to mess around with.

Well, in the case of Melee, complex as in one had to mash move the Control Stick and many different buttons in rapid time just to perform normal attacks; if anything, the fighter rarely has time to defend him/herself. Thankfully, the slightly slow-paced nature of Sm4sh changed that, allowing casual/beginning players to have a chance of a win.

 

[PootisKonga]

Well, in the case of Melee, complex as in one had to mash move the Control Stick and many different buttons in rapid time just to perform normal attacks; if anything, the fighter rarely has time to defend him/herself. Thankfully, the slightly slow-paced nature of Sm4sh changed that, allowing casual/beginning players to have a chance of a win.

While the dead zones on the control stick were stupid, there's no non-advanced tech in Melee that you can't do without fast fingers except for short hopping with 3 frame jumpsquat characters. Melee isn't SF, the majority of options are a single button press and a direction just like in Brawl, 4, and 64.

Admittedly defensive options like shields are worse compared to the future titles, but there's ample time to defend yourself in other manners, not to mention that casual players will be unlikely to take Melee up to it's competitive standard so there's even more time to attack and defend

 

[Snipnigth]

I was reading the first paragraphs of this and i cant believe sakurai compared pit and palutena on been below average, i do agree that palutena is below average but pit? pit is a good character.....Sometimes i feel Sakurai has no idea how his game works, although he did some good changes to almost the entire roster, but still obvious things like samus jabs and down b, and palutena in general are left the same....really i feel this 2 characters have been ignored completely...(I still can’t believe Mii Gunner is a much better version of samus)

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Literally dropping smash 4 after watching that video. Thanks.

That's not the most riveting video of Smash-4 I've ever saw, it truly saddens me that I must smite a Smash game above all it just shows the inexperience Nintendo is observing or hiring anyone to work on these games now (like Rare and Microsoft).

The thing is this, I've never seen a Smash-64, Melee or even a Brawl video that wasn't entertaining or somewhat "edge of my seat" yet Smash-4 is getting all this glory. Boy I wish all people were like this when a new game always came out. But Smash-4 just has to be an "exception". Thanks.

 

[Hapajin]

"At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games."

I don't think Sakurai understands that Melee was able to be enjoyed by intermediately-skilled players AND highly skilled players AND beginner level players. Changing the formula just cuts off a whole section of your audience. Melee showed that a fighting game can be an "enjoyable party game" and "thrilling and tactical." By slowing the game down, you're not creating a more enjoyable party game, the skill gaps are still there. If I play a faster paced game like Melee, I will experience players who are better than me and may frustrate me. If I play Smash 4 or Brawl, I will also experience players who are better than me and may frustrate me.

I consider myself a casual smasher. I play Melee and Smash 4 with my casual friends. Honestly, without ever being at a competitive tournament before, most of my friends prefer Melee style gameplay. The rest are indifferent. The change in Smash bros gameplay is a perfect example of "fixing" something that ain't broke.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

"At the end of the day, I’m aiming for intermediately-skilled players to be able to properly enjoy the game. Fundamentally, my goal with Smash has been to create an “enjoyable party game”. If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games."

I don't think Sakurai understands that Melee was able to be enjoyed by intermediately-skilled players AND highly skilled players AND beginner level players. Changing the formula just cuts off a whole section of your audience. Melee showed that a fighting game can be an "enjoyable party game" and "thrilling and tactical." By slowing the game down, you're not creating a more enjoyable party game, the skill gaps are still there. If I play a faster paced game like Melee, I will experience players who are better than me and may frustrate me. If I play Smash 4 or Brawl, I will also experience players who are better than me and may frustrate me.

I consider myself a casual smasher. I play Melee and Smash 4 with my casual friends. Honestly, without ever being at a competitive tournament before, most of my friends prefer Melee style gameplay. The rest are indifferent. The change in Smash bros gameplay is a perfect example of "fixing" something that ain't broke.

seriously. i didn't even play melee competitively but i loved it for how it was both a really fun game to play with friends AND had hidden depth to go into if you so chose. it was honestly the closest thing to perfecting the "easy to learn, hard to master" philosophy.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Glad he acknowledges balancing the game for everyone.

"If you want to enjoy thrilling tactical gameplay, you might be better suited for other 2D fighting games."

Call 911, the Melee crowd just got burned.