The "8-Player" Debate

[JmcShocker16]

Sounds expensive. Maybe they'll find a way to cheaply mass produce them.

I hope they do. this could also allow more players. Maybe nintendo is hiding more than what we think

 

[The Burrito of Time]

I hope they do. this could also allow more players. Maybe nintendo is hiding more than what we think

Quite possibly...

They have shown different controllers for the wii, maybe these will come out later.

 

[JmcShocker16]

Using visors would change everything, i wish nintendo luck with this. Id rather use a visor than a tv. maybe this is why nintendo didn't want wii to function on HD tvs.

 

[Azukki]

Using only one console, 8 players could maybe be possible. Half the players could use gamecube controllers and half could use Wiimotes with anolog shells if it were using only one console.

Although I'm not sure if this could work, as the Wii may not recognise the 8 controllers separatly, and only recognise 4 controllers, even when using all the Wiimotes and GC controller ports.

Or they could release a gamecube controller multitap used on the GC controller ports on the side of the Wii, if that could work, as SSBB is most likely going to be primarily played by GC controllers, as the anolog wiimote attachment looks somewhat uncomfortable, and they say they don't see much use of the motion sensory in the wiimote. But then again, the Wii may not be able to process 8 controllers, as it would normally not need to, as few games would use it, because most multiplayer games divide up the screen, and a screen split into eight is ridiculous.


Now then, with online play, it's definatly possible, even if it would probably be laggy.



BUT, reasonablitywise, No. Not in most people's opinions.
But yes in mine. (no, I don't form alliances, I keep to the free for all thing going and smash whoever. Also, the best three opponents I have in real life teamed together (freindly fire off) cannot beat me without other advandages.)

2 is okay, you and a freind. personal.
3 is good, multiple targets, but not rediculous.
4 is crazy fun, beginners start to get overwhelmed even just amongst themselves.
5 would be getting insane
6 would be on the verge of chaos.
7 would be chaos.
8 would be absolute madness.


I know someone who refuses to play 3 player matches, and is actually quite good.

However, when I think for myself, a limit of eight is perfect. 6-4 would be my ideal amount of opponents, but I'd want to have the option to try 7 or 8 now and then. 9 and above is too much for even the best of us, not really ideal for anyone, even the best melee fighters (melee as in many people)


Now, how well would this fit in the SSB series? Rather.

Firstly, a good portion of thought of SSB is "insane fights between nintendo characters."
To add to this insanity, more fighters would be good.

Secondly, the title is super smash brothers brawl. A brawl is concidered a loud and noisy fight. More players, more noisy.

Thirdly, Brawl also means a party. (a noisy one to be specific) 4 people is NOT a party. It's inviting some freinds over. 6 is harld one. 8 would be one.


On the contrary, it doesn't quite fit the game, because it's not ment as a small scaled war. It's a good deal more personal, because you're usually within 7 feet of the person, and also know them.

And, past smashs have involved stratagy. 8 people crammed onto battlefeild is button mashing or jumping back onto stage, no stratagy.



However, I think it's most likely there will be 4 player limit per console, and 6 player limit per wi fi match. Maybe just 4 in wi fi. Maybe a whole 8 in wi fi. 6 just seemed a good comprimise to me. Also, I would imagine a limit of 4 Wii consoles being used in one match, as six would cause unbarable lag.


In conclusion, I say they should have optionally up to 8 players in a wi fi match, and in a one console match if possible.

If you don't like the utter madness, or the lag, or the idea in general, just don't play with 8 players.




(If you read through all of this, I am rather surprised, and I apoligise, but I felt I should explain my opinion in detail.)


-edit-

About those visors, that would change the game completely, if in first person veiw. Hardly a bit of Super smash left.... and it would still change it even if the camera angles were varied per person, because that would ruin the fun of the projectiles, blind aiming and no warning is no good.

Maybe as a minigame? Because if the whole game uses the visor, in first person veiw, that would RUIN it in my honest opinion. Sure, it could be excellent fun, but it simply would not be Super smash bros anymore.

but for other games, I could see that put to good use, with the screen not needing spliting.

 

[The Burrito of Time]

Using visors would change everything, i wish nintendo luck with this. Id rather use a visor than a tv. maybe this is why nintendo didn't want wii to function on HD tvs.

Maybe, especially since from what i've seen there are a few first-person games. Imagen playing metriod!

 

[JmcShocker16]

Maybe, especially since from what i've seen there are a few first-person games. Imagen playing metriod!

yea *drools* that would be so cool. It would be cool if the wii-mote really did work with it

 

[The Burrito of Time]

yea *drools* that would be so cool. It would be cool if the wii-mote really did work with it

Yeah, you'd use the joystick to walk, the "wii-mote" to shoot, amd the visor to look in the direction you want.

All while crashing into stuff in your house.

 

[JmcShocker16]

Yeah, you'd use the joystick to walk, the "wii-mote" to shoot, amd the visor to look in the direction you want.

All while crashing into stuff in your house.

yea lol. man that would be so freggin cool. you have aol ?

 

[The Burrito of Time]

yea lol. man that would be so freggin cool. you have aol ?

No, what for?

 

[nomis]

Oh yeah, the multitap, forgot about that.

Anyway, 8 player brawl isn't a completely stupid idea. Usually, when I play FFA with my buddies, we kind of seperate and have 1v1 battles. The problem if there were an 8 player brawl would be that these 1v1 'split ups' would probably not happen. But if it did, it would have to be on a big map, making the camera zoom out.

Nice hijacking this thread to a convo about visors btw.

 

[JmcShocker16]

The visors would help with 8 player matches. and you wont need to zoom out.

 

[The Burrito of Time]

Nice hijacking this thread to a convo about visors btw.[/QUOTE]

Ha, thanks. I was thinking the whole time "man we are way off topic."

 

[Oro]

Quit talking about the stupid visors. The Wii is not going to be using any kind of visors. The pointer in the Wii controller works by aiming at the screen, and you couldn't aim at the screen while using a visor. I don't want to see you post about it again JmcShocker16, especially in the SSBB subforum.

And Jmc and The Burrito of Time seem to be using this thread just to message each other back and forth. If you're having a conversation with quick, less than a paragraph responses back and forth like that, take it to PM or AIM or MSN or anywhere but this thread, okay?

 

[JmcShocker16]

Quit talking about the stupid visors. The Wii is not going to be using any kind of visors. The pointer in the Wii controller works by aiming at the screen, and you couldn't aim at the screen while using a visor. I don't want to see you post about it again JmcShocker16, especially in the SSBB subforum.

And Jmc and The Burrito of Time seem to be using this thread just to message each other back and forth. If you're having a conversation with quick, less than a paragraph responses back and forth like that, take it to PM or AIM or MSN or anywhere but this thread, okay?

Thats not true. Nintendo said that the controller would be able to function with the visor.

 

[The Burrito of Time]

YES SIR!

Won't happen again.

 

[JmcShocker16]

Anyways. The visor was brought up because we had many questions on how 8 player would work. so i really dont see any problem with talking about a simple visor! Back to the discussion. Using visors would eliminate the need to zoom out. what do you guys think?

 

[Azukki]

Zooming out is best, because otherwise you've less warning of projectile attacks, and projectiles would be shot off screen blindly at people.

The zooming out is acually a fairly big part of the SSB gameplay.

 

[JmcShocker16]

Zooming out is best, because otherwise you've less warning of projectile attacks, and projectiles would be shot off screen blindly at people.

The zooming out is acually a fairly big part of the SSB gameplay.

you're right but i'm jus sayin. it should zoom out to a certain extent ( did i spell that right)

 

[asianpride3491]

Ok zoom out with 8 human players in a map. Either big maps for competitiveness, or small maps to make it insanely hectic. either way, fun right?

 

[Oro]

If a player can only see part of the map, he or she may not see some battle that is heading his way, and won't be able to react to it. This would be an even worse problem in a team match, where you might be completely unaware of one team mate getting demolished on the other side of the stage. And if the screen zooms out, it'd be difficult for everyone too see what's going on. This is already enough of a problem on some stages in Melee. For those reasons, I think that more than four players would be more trouble than it's worth.

 

[JmcShocker16]

If a player can only see part of the map, he or she may not see some battle that is heading his way, and won't be able to react to it. This would be an even worse problem in a team match, where you might be completely unaware of one team mate getting demolished on the other side of the stage. And if the screen zooms out, it'd be difficult for everyone too see what's going on. This is already enough of a problem on some stages in Melee. For those reasons, I think that more than four players would be more trouble than it's worth.

Well let me say this though. The new smash will have more options. THis wont be a problem. You should be able to adjust the zoom . Press a button zoom in, press it again zoom out.

 

[Liveit_]

I dont see why it has to be eight... why not six instead? More mayhem than 4-player and less lag than 8-player

 

[Azukki]

yes, 6 would be good, as it's a comprimise between lag and chaos, but I personally think we should have the option to play with eight.

Because the Wii is either able to process 4 or 8 controllers, and if at all possible, 8 player should be possible. and it is possible with Wifi, even if it'd be a bit laggy even if only over two consoles.

I'm not saying all matches should be 8 player, just that we can go to that extreme if we wish. It would be freedom. if you don't like 8 player, just play 6 or 4 or 2 player matchs, whatever you want, I just think we should have the option of 8 players if possible.

And I personally don't want much more than 8, as that would be big enough of a step, and 10, 12, 14, 16, ect is ridiculous, and would most likely not work at all, due to lag, and the percentage and icons and score of each character are too big to fit then.


Just saying that 6 would be somewhat foolish is all.

 

[ShadowUltima]

Come to think of it, Nintendo could do this instead:

-No. of Players: 1-4
-No. of Computers: 0-4

^
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i agree. But i prefer 6 players. 4 controllers 2 CPU is enough isn't it?

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

actually...mario kart double dash can do 8 player races, why can the wii have some sort of console connection contraption as well? i think it could work. wait are talking about 8 players online? or 8 players...like...in person? anyways if 8 players WERE possible, how often would you play with 8 players...? all of you guys sittin in a semi-circle around the tv and the wii in the center...unless it's like a 3 yard screen tv not everyone's gunna be able to see the screen...and it'd be SO SO hectic...like CRAZY hectic...plus you'd need alot of space to keep the gameplay lag-free(as i assume we ALL like our gameplay lag-free). i'd rather we use the extra disc space for more characters/stages/alternate costumes(not just color change) etc.

 

[BentoBox]

And basically, everytime Marth F-Smashes, he'd be sure to hit 2-3 persons. Oh yeah, that sure seems fun to me ._."

And you can't even plug more than 4 wimotes or gc controllers on the console, so why even argue?

 

[Yuna]

The Good Reasons on why Super Smash Bros. Brawl needs 8-Player Compatibility:

1. Adding More Characters to the game seems Pointless with just 4-Player Support
2. More Crowd Confusion for Power Moves (Such as Capt. Falcon's Falcon Punch)
3. The obvious case of "Too Much Level, Not Enough Players" (Example: Hyrule Temple)
4. Bigger Team-Battle Action
5. Pichu VS 7 lvl9 Ganondorfs



An Example on Crowd Confusion with 8-Players:

You are playing as Capt. Falcon. Everyone is so caught up in beating the heck out of each other that by the time they notice you charging up a Falcon Punch, it is TOO Late.

Your Falcon Punch connects and sends, at most, 4 Players flying to the right and out of the arena. K.O.

1) No it's not. Plenty of fighting games have tons of characters but only 2 (or at maximum up to 4) players. Any given King of Fighters for one thing.
2) No, Falcon Punch takes too long and still says "Falcon..." first. Also, this isn't exactly a good thing.
3) Well, Hyrule Temple is banned because of this. Also, it's a boring stage, having to chase each other around and never dying.
4) No it's not. It would be imbalanced and totally unplayable.
5) Ok...

More is not always better. Playing 4-man FFA is already stupid enough. Many players, including myself, refuse to because of the randomness that occur. Having 8 would make it unplayable. Not to mention most stages would be unplayable because they'd be too small.

 

[Captain_Obvious]

Well, Smash was originally a party game, so I think it would be fun to a point, but it's pretty much the same as having 4 Ice Climber players on the screen at the same time. It's simply confusing as all get-out.

- Captain R.D. Obvious

 

[LOST_815]

Wow. This place truly amazes me sometimes. Ok, here we go.

What does that have to do with anything?

And if the SSBB allows for 8 ppl to play at the same time, they'd consequently have to make the maps bigger(Which isn't the case judging from the pics we've seen). And you who are whining about how boring it is to 1v1 on maps such as hyrule temple, it'll just get worst.

Would they now? Who says the maps are too small to play on? There may be people out there who find the insane madness of playing on a too-small stage with too many people fun. And heck, if certain stages are too small, lock them out for your 8-player matches. OR, how about Tiny Melee with 8 players? Your logic fails.

worst idea i've ever heard

4 player ffa is bad enough

why would you want to remove even more skill from the game?

stick to teams or one on one.

my dog could win a 4 player FFA, and an amoeba could win an 8 player ffa match

O RLY? Come on, are you serious? "stick to teams or 1 on 1"? Give me a break, not everyone wants to limit themselves to these game types. Another failure.

Another good reason would that they have to have an incentive to make more character costume colors/designs. But I'm against 8-players, as there'd only be around 2 stages for 8 players to fit.

Also, there's only 4 GC controller ports, so it would be only online.

How about a 6 player brawl?

Once again, who says that 8 players would ONLY fit on 2 really big stages in the game? Sure, for competitive matches people might want only 4 or less players at a time, but I say the more the merrier... sometimes you want to just have a crazy game of smash. It was a party game first afterall.

And so what if it could only be online? If they can work the lag issues out (minimize it, I know you can't eliminate it completely), then why not include it as a feature? The more features the better... it might be a while before we get another Smash, go all out on this one!

6 player would be fine too, if they somehow couldn't make 8 work.

i see it this way:

if theres no lagging, then y wouldnt any1 want a casual friendly game of 8-player chaos?

1v1 can get prety boring sumtimes so itll be fun. "ganging up" on ppl will happen but hey, theyll hit each other by accident lol.

if there is lag, screw it.

Exactly. Why people would want to eliminate the OPTION for 8 players is beyond me. If you don't like it, go play whatever matches you and your friends enjoy. No one will FORCE you to play 8 player games (hopefully, assuming that if the game is online there will be options for this stuff).

hey im alive.
wait. so if the weaker ppl form alliances to take down the best first....then that means that the best one would get better and better becuz fighting multiple players targeting u is harder than a fighting just 1 person. meaning...there is skill involved, in order to beat a gang.

I have wondered why no one realizes this. You CAN get decent at fighting multiple opponents, especially when they can hit each other. I have seen a lot of "Home Alone"/"Bumbling Idiots!" moments where 2 people will join forces to take down someone who is more skillfull and outstocking them, but end up hurting themselves more in the process! Good times. Granted, it doesn't always go down like this, but it does happen.

Nope, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenu click that, thats the stupidest thing you'll read EVER.

Something we can all agree on at least. Xenu for the win!

Seriously, I can't see why anyone would not at least consider having the OPTION to play with 8 players, whether it be through some kind of add-on or linkup with multiple Wii's, or strictly online. If lag issues could be minimized, who would turn down the chance to have a match that has you and three of your closest friends teamed up on one console, taking on a team of Smashers somewhere else in the world? 4 v 4 style. Good F'n Times.

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

yeah, i freakin HATE anything besides 1-on-1's but thats just me, i know there are ppl out there who love 4playerFFA, but 8...? thats like...ridiculously insane...well if you wanna get a feel of how 8 players might feel like, play 4 humans and 2 computers in the 6 player melee using AR.

 

[BentoBox]

Would they now? Who says the maps are too small to play on? There may be people out there who find the insane madness of playing on a too-small stage with too many people fun. And heck, if certain stages are too small, lock them out for your 8-player matches. OR, how about Tiny Melee with 8 players? Your logic fails.

Because of the simple fact that when HAL designs their maps, they have a max of 4 players in mind, not 8. Surely, if it were announced to be 8players compatible, we'd notice a switch of mindset in hal's laboratory concerning map sizes. No?

 

[Yuna]

HAL is not making SSBB. A new, yet unnamed, company is. However, the director is still Sakurai, the same as SSB and SSBM.

 

[BentoBox]

Lol, I knew that'd come up and yeah, I know. "The Studio" if you wish. Whatever's the name, it's still being led by the same head ;D.

 

[LOST_815]

Because of the simple fact that when HAL designs their maps, they have a max of 4 players in mind, not 8. Surely, if it were announced to be 8players compatible, we'd notice a switch of mindset in hal's laboratory concerning map sizes. No?

Seeing as how there have been only two games in the series, who is to say that they wouldn't allow more than 4 in the new game? Or even design levels that can support more than 4 (heck, I think that Hyrule, Corneria, and Big Blue in Melee would have been fine for more than 4). I know it hasn't been announced (and will likely remain 4 only) but we haven't seen very much of this game either. To me, it just seems like the game could handle 6 or 8 players.

And heck, before E3 who woulda thought that 3rd party characters would be in the new game? Some of us had fantasies of it coming true, but it remained a pipedream until we saw Solid freakin' Snake emerging from a box next to Mario and Link.

 

[Wave⁂]

i think if there are bigger maps, 8 player would be awesome.
COMPLETE CHAOS.

 

[1o11oo1o11]

Yeah...complete ANNOYING chaos. If your playing with n00bs than all their gonna do is gang up on you. I thought 3 v1 was bad, but omg I will certainly get pissed if it's 7v1. It's gonna be hard to tell who you are if there are 8 people on a single screen and can you possibly imagine how much **** there would be if there were items? It would result in 8 special attacks at once and the game would freeze from complete uber lag.

 

[Yuna]

Let's not forget 8 people using the same character.

 

[fluffy]

Let's not forget 8 people using the same character.

iceclimbers...awesum

 

[The Burrito of Time]

Let's not forget 8 people using the same character.

Haha!, 16 giant Ice Climbers on Final Destination!

 

[JmcShocker16]

Yeah...complete ANNOYING chaos. If your playing with n00bs than all their gonna do is gang up on you. I thought 3 v1 was bad, but omg I will certainly get pissed if it's 7v1. It's gonna be hard to tell who you are if there are 8 people on a single screen and can you possibly imagine how much **** there would be if there were items? It would result in 8 special attacks at once and the game would freeze from complete uber lag.

I doubt that it would 8 players online. come on dude. 4 at the most.