The 3.5 Ganon Thread

[Purple Stuff]

So, I know you'll appreciate this, but it seems with the new hit detection, landing the first frame quake of Wiz Foot is no more.

You can still do it from under platforms onto them though. Just I don't think you can anywhere. And it stinks bc with Debug mode you can see the single frame of where you need to hit it.

It still works anywhere. I actually find it easier now to do consistently with the new land detection.

 

[RelaxAlax]

WHAT

Show me you ways.

 

[Electric Tuba]

So you can't stutter step fsmash anymore ( D: ), but you can still do a dash pivot smash or something, where you do flick forward to do a dash, then backwards on the analog stick and forwards on c-stick a frame or two apart to fsmash right.

You can also do this with down smash to foxtrot forward once and down smash, or fsmash where you were standing a second ago by smashing the sticks the same direction (backwards) instead of opposites.

 

[Electric Tuba]

Computer sucks so double posted same post. Don't know how to delete ;_;

 

[RelaxAlax]

Computer sucks so double posted same post. Don't know how to delete ;_;

Yo explain why you have Ganon pancakes as ur display pic.

A delicious combination.

 

[Scuba Steve]

http://youtu.be/SXoFOEtJq6w?t=6m38s

Yoooooooooo, the volley can be used to jab reset! Ganon finally has a reliable option to jab reset with like a normal character! 3.5 just keeps getting better and better.

 

[CORY]

bro. bruh... broski...

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-3-5-ganon-thread.377817/#post-17977818

i feel so ignored and unloved D :

 

[teluoborg]

So that's what you meant by jab reset. I always called it force getup, because it forces get ups but doesn't reset jabs. And there I was in training mode, trying to reset my jab with neutral B, crying because I couldn't get it to work. Why you all gotta be so mean ):

When will you babies stop complaining about aerial wizkick not being stupid?

I stopped yesterday when I realized hover did what I wanted airwizkick to do and afaik I was the only one complaining about it. I'm still salty that I can get spiked by Falco when airwizkicking him from above tho.


Also it looks like I'm the only one that finds the DACUS easier to do now, why are you all so strange. PS : I claw to dacus, maybe that's why.

 

[RelaxAlax]

Yeah, I was fooling around with this yesterday. You'll always get it after flame choke. Always, but then you have less time to set up another flame choke or move away for a followup on a roll.

So let's see, if you land the flame choke and do nB, that's 17 percent right there. And potentially more if you can get a followup. Gonna do some more testing later.

In other news, finally got use to having hover on default b, instead of on a shoulder button. It was good there to learn when to use it, but now i can do it well on the vanilla setup. I hate custom controls, there's no swag in that

 

[TTTTTsd]

Fullhop Nair into waveland is gonna be so good. Poke at shields at Battlefield platform from a fullhop, lean back and waveland on the surface below to keep going....

Man this character got like twenty times more fun in one update.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

So that's what you meant by jab reset. I always called it force getup, because it forces get ups but doesn't reset jabs. And there I was in training mode, trying to reset my jab with neutral B, crying because I couldn't get it to work. Why you all gotta be so mean ):


I stopped yesterday when I realized hover did what I wanted airwizkick to do and afaik I was the only one complaining about it. I'm still salty that I can get spiked by Falco when airwizkicking him from above tho.


Also it looks like I'm the only one that finds the DACUS easier to do now, why are you all so strange. PS : I claw to dacus, maybe that's why.

I was also complaining about the air wiz Kick hit box, and I STILL think its stupid! I understand the reasoning why they have it this way but I don't agree with it. At the very least the should put the hit box in the middle of his shin NOT on the knee...

I also don't necessarily agree with the range of the grab. I get that the down throw is really good but that grab range is just... blah! I got used to it, but at the very least they should extend the range a tiny bit and make sure short opponents or moves like Mario's dash attack should be able to be grabbed. It just really pisses me off when I miss the grab just because of the range. I played against a Roy who dashed attacked me and didn't space properly, So I naturally went for the grab, but because Roy ducks a little with the attack I missed him and I got punished instead...

I would still like more horizontal Range on the standing grab BUT we need more vertical range on it for sure.

 

[Electric Tuba]

Yo explain why you have Ganon pancakes as ur display pic.

A delicious combination.

I am not really sure anymore, it was many moons ago... I think one day I just decided: "I need Ganon combined with pancakes somehow" and cut out his head by hand in ms paint and slapped it on some flapjacks.

I'm actually very proud of Ganoncakes, they are quite delicious.

 

[Scuba Steve]

bro. bruh... broski...

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-3-5-ganon-thread.377817/#post-17977818

i feel so ignored and unloved D :

Sowwy, I just saw it on salty highlights and I had to share it with the world. I had no idea you'd already dropped that knowledge

 

[Bazkip]

Okay so the Wiz Foot change makes it so that if you do a ground to air Wiz Foot that ends on the ground (so like, from PS2 platform to platform, or from the very edge of the stage inwards) there's a landing animation. It's still way better than normal Wiz Foot endlag, though not quite as lagless as it was before.

It also seems this change made it so that it takes waaaaay longer to act out of it when you do finish grounded Wiz Foot in the air. RIP Wiz Foot -> double jump fair combo ;_;

 

[Sovereign]

Gentlemen (and potentially ladies, respectively), just for the sake of future talk: Ganondorf is the only character with a hover. All other characters float.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I like to call it a drift, because it doesn't work like either the hover or the float mechanic, despite being similar.

 

[mimgrim]

Gentlemen (and potentially ladies, respectively), just for the sake of future talk: Ganondorf is the only character with a hover. All other characters float.

*cough*Mewtwo*cough*

 

[Taytertot]

From the ledge of the new, deck-out hyrule castle (Smash 64) I was getting kills with Fthrow around 135%. It certainly has its uses. One can use Fthrow in order to push an opponent back to the other end of a stage and take some great positioning at center stage.

 

[Sovereign]

*cough*Mewtwo*cough*

Mewtwo can move around freely, during his float.
Ganon has to carry momentum.

(I will make this a known fact across Smashboards)

 

[Electric Tuba]

Ganon can move too, though. It's small, but you can drift. It's really just a pedantic issue, sort of like whether you should call him Ganon or Ganondorf.

 

[Yanoss1313]

Can someone explain the new DACUS timing to me? I just can't get it consistently.

after a bunch of trying, I've gotten the new timing down... but it's hard to describe... umm... you have to input the up>z a little sooner than before.
as a side note, it feels like it's a little faster than before (though that may be a placebo from having to input it faster)

 

[Yanoss1313]

Gentlemen (and potentially ladies, respectively), just for the sake of future talk: Ganondorf is the only character with a hover. All other characters float.

Mewtwo can move around freely, during his float.
Ganon has to carry momentum.

(I will make this a known fact across Smashboards)

Actually, in reality the term float implies a lack of direct control.
Where as hovering implies the hoverer (iunno, that should be a word) can control their movement. like a dragonfly or a humming bird.

So sir... I declare you've got it backwards.

Edit:

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

New f-throw is a legit mix-up now. Lots of damage, good knockback, and a terrible angle on bad DI.

When you're at that awkward percent when you only get uairs/nothing, f-throw is king.

Also, anyone know how to use the new b-throw yet?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I think b-throw might be a DI mixup with d-throw. Like if you grab somebody with your back to the ledge and they try to DI in to avoid getting hit offstage by a d-throw follow up, you can bthrow and the inward DI will keep them close enough for a follow up. This is all just me guessing based off of the few times I've used, though lol.

I really like the new fthrow as well. It can be used similarly to Falcon's fthrow to mixup DI and setup edgeguards. Not to mention that this option is even stronger now because of Ganon's improved edgeguarding game now that he has drift.

I'm just really happy that there are reasons for Ganon to use all of his throws now. Ganon's grab game had always felt pretty brain dead to me.

 

[teluoborg]

the hoverer

Might as well call him the hoverlord.

 

[CORY]

Gentlemen (and potentially ladies, respectively), just for the sake of future talk: Ganondorf is the only character with a hover. All other characters float.

actually, no. mewtwo has a hover. it's called a hover by the devs. that's the precedent that's been set, officially. peach has a float, she's floated since melee, that's the precedent set by the scene.

ganon's nb acts more like peach's float than mewtwo's hover (you don't have omnidirectional control, just slight horizontal drift while slowly descending, hence "Dark Descent"). that's why it's mostly referred to as a float. hover, though, sounds cooler, because "hoverdorf" just flows better than "floatdorf", imo.

but, it can be called just about whatever, and as long as it makes sense, it doesn't matter and people will know what you're talking about (i know i've switched between hover and float midsentence before. sometimes back and forth a few times, in fact >.>)...

 

[mimgrim]

I'm going to be honest. The reason I've started enjoying Ganondorf in 3.5 now, compared to 3.02, and have actually started using him, isn't because of the levitation or other changes to his gameplay. It is solely because of his OoT skin. I hated TP skin Ganondorf in Project M, TP skin just didn't look good in Project M physics and things imo. OoT skin basically made him funner for me then anything else. xD

 

[CORY]

that face on the oot skin isn't ganon, though : / they may as well add sparkles and flowers around his bishounen self with that if you pause and zoom in on the face : (

otherwise, i really really dig the costume and colors themselves, though! just... that face... like trying to make wolverine a pretty boy...

 

[mimgrim]

Don't zoom in on the face?

Out of site out of mind?

 

[Scuba Steve]

The extra crispy wavelands and reduced jumpsquat brought me back

 

[White Light]

How do oh guys use the new float? It lasts for just a second, and then I'm grounded. I can't gain enough height from a full hop to be above the opponent when I'm hovering, and the only time I find it useful is to stall out edge guards.

 

[Usopp]

my greatest float moment so far. i was ganon ofcourse and my roommate was lucas we were on green hill zone. i f tilt him off stage then ran off and floated and used my cape and his character got pushed back a little bit but it was just enough for me to upB back and he was just a little to far away for his pk thunder to bring him back. now my roomate wont play against my ganondorf anymore

 

[Yanoss1313]

actually, no. mewtwo has a hover. it's called a hover by the devs. that's the precedent that's been set, officially. peach has a float, she's floated since melee, that's the precedent set by the scene.

ganon's nb acts more like peach's float than mewtwo's hover (you don't have omnidirectional control, just slight horizontal drift while slowly descending, hence "Dark Descent"). that's why it's mostly referred to as a float. hover, though, sounds cooler, because "hoverdorf" just flows better than "floatdorf", imo.

but, it can be called just about whatever, and as long as it makes sense, it doesn't matter and people will know what you're talking about (i know i've switched between hover and float midsentence before. sometimes back and forth a few times, in fact >.>)...

Thank you!!! You explained it better than I. =D

 

[Taytertot]

By the way PM dev thank you for bringing back the old ganon costumes. I cant tell you how wrong it feels to use the twilight princess appearance with that awkward beard.

 

[Spralwers]

Reverse ledge dashing is so much easier to do than before. It's still hard, but it's at that level where you can practice it for a week or two and be able to use it a few times in a row reliably in a tournament set. I'm actually gonna grind this out.

 

[Sovereign]

How do oh guys use the new float? It lasts for just a second, and then I'm grounded. I can't gain enough height from a full hop to be above the opponent when I'm hovering, and the only time I find it useful is to stall out edge guards.

It allows for some extremely easy low-to-the-ground-aerials.
Great for intimidating opponents in a ledge guard situation.
Great for simply stalling in a tech chase situation.
I honestly can't think of enough uses that it has, and the potential behind it.

 

[Bazkip]

Okay so the Wiz Foot change makes it so that if you do a ground to air Wiz Foot that ends on the ground (so like, from PS2 platform to platform, or from the very edge of the stage inwards) there's a landing animation. It's still way better than normal Wiz Foot endlag, though not quite as lagless as it was before.

It also seems this change made it so that it takes waaaaay longer to act out of it when you do finish grounded Wiz Foot in the air. RIP Wiz Foot -> double jump fair combo ;_;

I want to come back to this again, @Shell is the latter part of this intentional? Cause the changelog doesn't have anything about it. I'm wondering if it may have somehow been an unintentional side effect of the other change.

 

[Electric Tuba]

You can mix up fairs with jump, wait with float, fair to punish anything they do. It also really helps with recovery and edgeguarding.

 

[reptiloidjeanspisser]

disregard.

 

[Scuba Steve]

moonwalk to b-reversed hover is fun