Official The 1.1.5 project

[Lonky]

Weak nair upsmash is better, but harder to get.
Best on floaties.

But I think it's more of a DI dependant thing, if it hits it's waaaay better that Weak Nair > BFish but on fastfallers it'll surely be nearly impossible to hit even with wrong DI

 

[Guimartgon]

I mean it's a better killing option cause Sheik's Usmash its amazing, but I honestly couldn't tell you if it's a % based thing or if the players that do it(namely Zero) just get it based on DI reaction.

 

[Lonky]

EDIT:
Ignore, why the **** did I double post

 

[NonJohns]

Is it still possible to do FThrow>Airdodge>upsmash?


Here is a list of Shiek kills I think are good to keep in mind. wip

https://youtu.be/mDU0_UkYqF4?t=10m16s
Here's a clip of ZeRo getting a nair to upsmash on ESAM (didn't kill)

https://youtu.be/itlbC-X_atI?t=3m
Here's a clip of Void trying to get needles to airdodge read on Fox
^ v
(Same video)
https://youtu.be/itlbC-X_atI?t=8m36s
Void doing side tilt to upsmash (Against Fox DIing away I'm guessing)

https://youtu.be/UCxRE7KzOps?t=5m43s
Void doing a cute side tilt -> side tilt -> up air
^ v
(Same video)
https://youtu.be/UCxRE7KzOps?t=10m52s
Void doing side tilt to bouncing fish

https://youtu.be/aypWGY-PXd0?t=9m47s
Void doing backair to upsmash

Weird gimmicks (either very situational or pre patch)
https://youtu.be/y4DdyANscHI?t=4m27s
https://youtu.be/Rnr0iEPb3hM?t=1m6s
https://youtu.be/3z-Ikg0w0hw?t=44s
https://youtu.be/N9p9ZCoeYXg?t=5m19s

 

[Ronaldo Pintado]

Is there a discord chat I can join?? Pls fren?

 

[Lonky]

Is there a discord chat I can join?? Pls fren?

Yes.
https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uPkzTh0

 

[ArikadoSD]

Not really adding anything new but I just wanna chip in on my progress on adapting to the nerfs. Took me a couple months, but I'm finally getting around it.

Gonna break it into bulletpoints to make it easier

• my movement got a lot more crisp. I've been focusing a lot on it and i'm implementing b-reverse tech way more than I used to, mixing it up with platform movement and stuff
• focusing a lot more on footsies/ground game than on getting a grab, like i'd space dtilt on shield, use jab to pressure, etc, whereas prepatch i'd rely on spacing fair on shield and using that as a conditioning tool to get a grab
  
• playing a lot smarter, no autopilot, utilize needles from a distance (and use them way more in general), capitalize on stage control as much as i can, convert off of literally everything i can get.
• learning to edgeguard MUCH more efficiently than before, rather than stay on ledge and maintain stage positioning i'd get offstage and risk it in order to get a kill, not sure if this is a good thing or not for me.
• play more patient in general

I've also heard from multiple people that my playstyle changed drastically and that I play a lot smarter now lol. tbh i couldn't play sheik at all for the first ~month, had to play diddy instead, but then forced myself to get used to her cuz shes still the MVP and character I enjoy the most, and now we're here.

one thing I need to practice rn is run > fh turnaround needles > bouncing fish, harder than it sounds

 

[AlaGORY]

Blank Smash on youtube made a video on a few under utilized kill set ups, most notably rising fh fair > bf, ftilt > rising fh fair > bf, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=250sX2qfdNg

I also noticed Void using falling uair > down smash against Mr. R at Pound 2016 but that might've already been mentioned.

 

[Ronaldo Pintado]

Yes.
https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uPkzTh0

no I was too late I think. can u resend it again? I honestly thought no one would reply lol

 

[ArikadoSD]

no I was too late I think. can u resend it again? I honestly thought no one would reply lol

https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uSX0plv

 

[Lonky]

no I was too late I think. can u resend it again? I honestly thought no one would reply lol

****.

https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uSX0plv

Thanks

 

[AlaGORY]

https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uSX0plv

Any chance I can get one too? Also expired.

 

[Simikins]

(Just gonna pop in here and say 1.1.6 is looking to be only Bayo changes so I won't make a sheik changes thread unless something comes up)

 

[Absol]

best patch ever tbh

 

[ArikadoSD]

If only rosa was nerfed as well =(

 

[Lonky]

Any chance I can get one too? Also expired.

Ok.
https://discord.gg/0lb0PnmJ5uRYEXPI
This shouldn't expire.

 

[SmBootZ]

Im not sure if this was already covered or not. but one thing i like to use is at high/mid % a SH Fair FF can lead into an UpSmash setup. If they air dodge or try to challenge you with an aerial, you can get under them and punish with Upsmash for an early kill. You shouldn't run into too much trouble with someone beating out sheiks Upsmash because i believe we are invincible in the arms and head.

the only safe thing they can do is jump...but you can also bait the air dodge by empty hopping before you Upsmash.
its not "true" or anything, but i just figured i would offer what i can.

 

[Topskunium]

Are there anymore numbers to test out, or are we done here?

 

[Simikins]

Are there anymore numbers to test out, or are we done here?

There will always be more to do. If you're wanting to help test then here are some unfinished %s labbed out by Lonky (I think, if it was someone else I'm sorry). Doing the rest of the characters would be super helpful.

 

[NonJohns]

Any ideas for the new (not really) untechable discovery?

 

[Simikins]

Any ideas for the new (not really) untechable discovery?

Off the top of my head weak nair will be perfect for it. Haven't tested anything else, saw someone on twitter say backthrow onto platforms. I guess dair spike as well but that's baaaasically useless.

 

[NonJohns]

Would Weak NAir into Weak NAir into bouncing fish be an option?
I've gotten it a couple times but I don't know the exact details for it.
It's really hard for me to get and I think I have to hit them during the little bounce of the landing.
But I feel like I'm trying too hard in the wrong direction and there's another better option to follow up with.

 

[McGyverAC]

Im not sure if this was already covered or not. but one thing i like to use is at high/mid % a SH Fair FF can lead into an UpSmash setup. If they air dodge or try to challenge you with an aerial, you can get under them and punish with Upsmash for an early kill. You shouldn't run into too much trouble with someone beating out sheiks Upsmash because i believe we are invincible in the arms and head.

the only safe thing they can do is jump...but you can also bait the air dodge by empty hopping before you Upsmash.
its not "true" or anything, but i just figured i would offer what i can.

It's a true combo at lower percents, though it doesn't kill. Is good for getting some extra damage though.

 

[McGyverAC]

Everyone on this Sheik board says up throw to up air is not a 50-50. This is true, but for whatever reason, the majority of Sheiks I've played against, and some other players, think it is a true 50-50. I don't see a problem with them having miss information, and like a ninja, sheik must use deception to be played optimally. Or so I think. Just a thought

 

[Simikins]

Everyone on this Sheik board says up throw to up air is not a 50-50. This is true, but for whatever reason, the majority of Sheiks I've played against, and some other players, think it is a true 50-50. I don't see a problem with them having miss information, and like a ninja, sheik must use deception to be played optimally. Or so I think. Just a thought

Tell everyone you play against it's a true 50/50, then they'll actually try and airdodge it.
Otherwise they'll be smart and jump away every time and you'll never hit them.

 

[McGyverAC]

In other news regarding fast fallen up air. I was testing fast fallen up air to up smash on Ryu, and noticed that at lower percents, he pops in the air in front of sheik, and lands. From his animation, it looks as though he is in hitstun until he reaches the ground. Then I noticed at certain percentages, Sheik can act before Ryu hits the ground, such as up smash, forward tilt, down tilt, down smash, etc. I don't have anyone to test this on, but it looks like Ryu is in hitstun. It started working around 125, and stops working when up smash connects. Could someone please do some testing about this.

 

[Absol]

In other news regarding fast fallen up air. I was testing fast fallen up air to up smash on Ryu, and noticed that at lower percents, he pops in the air in front of sheik, and lands. From his animation, it looks as though he is in hitstun until he reaches the ground. Then I noticed at certain percentages, Sheik can act before Ryu hits the ground, such as up smash, forward tilt, down tilt, down smash, etc. I don't have anyone to test this on, but it looks like Ryu is in hitstun. It started working around 125, and stops working when up smash connects. Could someone please do some testing about this.

That sounds like a shoru waiting to happen

 

[Simikins]

In other news regarding fast fallen up air. I was testing fast fallen up air to up smash on Ryu, and noticed that at lower percents, he pops in the air in front of sheik, and lands. From his animation, it looks as though he is in hitstun until he reaches the ground. Then I noticed at certain percentages, Sheik can act before Ryu hits the ground, such as up smash, forward tilt, down tilt, down smash, etc. I don't have anyone to test this on, but it looks like Ryu is in hitstun. It started working around 125, and stops working when up smash connects. Could someone please do some testing about this.

I've done a lot of testing with first hit upair combos. As a general rule, if they touch the ground it's not a combo. Those things you listed can be combos at various %s, but not really if the opponent hits the ground first. Upair upsmash starts being true at around 150 on most chars, less on some more on some. Works to catch jump or attack a bit earlier though.
First hit upair ftilt is actually a pretty good trick, as it works reasonably early (around 50-80% iirc). Dtilt is a little less useful as the hitbox is low to the ground and ftilt is much higher, but it's still good. Dsmash... ehhhhh, not really a combo after first hit upair. Is a good trick to do if you do upair dragdown at %s where the upair forces a tech, and you can see VoiD and Mr. R making use of it a fair amount.

Going for first hit upair combos can be risky as it's veeeeery far from safe on shield (only does 1% damage so next to no shield stun or push, and a lot of landing lag) so don't go for it too often. It's a good trick to hold up your sleeve until late in a game when you're struggling to kill, as first hit upair > upsmash can be a surprise.

 

[McGyverAC]

I've done a lot of testing with first hit upair combos. As a general rule, if they touch the ground it's not a combo. Those things you listed can be combos at various %s, but not really if the opponent hits the ground first. Upair upsmash starts being true at around 150 on most chars, less on some more on some. Works to catch jump or attack a bit earlier though.
First hit upair ftilt is actually a pretty good trick, as it works reasonably early (around 50-80% iirc). Dtilt is a little less useful as the hitbox is low to the ground and ftilt is much higher, but it's still good. Dsmash... ehhhhh, not really a combo after first hit upair. Is a good trick to do if you do upair dragdown at %s where the upair forces a tech, and you can see VoiD and Mr. R making use of it a fair amount.

Going for first hit upair combos can be risky as it's veeeeery far from safe on shield (only does 1% damage so next to no shield stun or push, and a lot of landing lag) so don't go for it too often. It's a good trick to hold up your sleeve until late in a game when you're struggling to kill, as first hit upair > upsmash can be a surprise.

Just because an option isn't 100% viable in a match doesn't make it any less of an option. Just like down air was thought to have little to no use.

 

[Absol]

Just because an option isn't 100% viable in a match doesn't make it any less of an option. Just like down air was thought to have little to no use.

No, it's just makes it impractical.

Oh really? What use does down air have? Can I gimp Diddy Kong with it...or...?

 

[Simikins]

Just because an option isn't 100% viable in a match doesn't make it any less of an option. Just like down air was thought to have little to no use.

Well in a situation where on thing is guaranteed and another is not, and they have the same outcome, why would you go for the one that's not guaranteed.
The opponent can jump away, attack, airdodge, land and shield, land and roll, or do basically anything if you give them time to land.

 

[McGyverAC]

No, it's just makes it impractical.

Oh really? What use does down air have? Can I gimp Diddy Kong with it...or...?

If your opponent doesn't have ledge invincibility, then it spikes. Void has done it numerous times.
(My clip) :https://youtu.be/qp9DZR2wkrI
Check out best of Void on youtube to see one example other example. Mr R also did it to a cloud. You know, no auto snap recovery
Another is cancelling the down air, which is by being up above the blastzone, double jumping, then down airing. You'll cancel the down air, and can surprise your opponent. I did this against a pacman, and killed him with a forward smash (no clip)

 

[McGyverAC]

Well in a situation where on thing is guaranteed and another is not, and they have the same outcome, why would you go for the one that's not guaranteed.
The opponent can jump away, attack, airdodge, land and shield, land and roll, or do basically anything if you give them time to land.

Didn't want to start a flame war on this. Just mentioning a discovery, since I didn't see anyone else mention something about it. I wouldn't know any good ways to apply it, aside from air dodge reads, and ledge getup reads. I just don't want anyone to over look an option that's only useful 1% of the time in a Sheik match. Cause that 1% May just come around.

 

[Absol]

Could you stop double posting? Plus I was being ironic with my question anyway. You want to use something that's not pratical that's all you. Because I am over looking this option because it's just hardly worth it. Neutral and mental game are going to go way further than any tech, set up, or gimmick. Uair drag into x has been known as a fake set up ever since people thought sheik had a chain grab and izaw milked it on YouTube like it was legitimate. I much rather use a set up that gets my opponent on the ledge so I can get a read and kill them than do a set up with sprinkles that may forfeit that opportunity.

 

[McGyverAC]

Point taken. point respected. I will stop double posting as well.
Last thing: I wasn't criticizing your playstyle or trying to be rude. Everyone has their own mindset and playstyle

 

[McGyverAC]

So Void was just streaming and demonstrated a combo regarding f tilt to fast fall up air, land on platform, f tilt, to up air. Can be repeated if there is another platform (depends on positioning.)

Void says it's a true combo, and he got the fastfall to ftilt to combo once, but is apparently very hard to do. I told him I'd let the other Sheik's know, as this requires more testing. The percents are unknown, but seemed to work on Sheik at 93/94%. I don't have a Wii U and I lost my 3DS, so if someone could test this out that'd be awesome.

Thanks

 

[Lord Renning]

So we can Ally people now?

 

[All Star Ninja]

hey guys I am in the middle of making a video on shieks ftilt and alot of hidden application of the move. I also plan to include the ftilt->upair 50/50 percents with optimal DI i don't believe i have seen percents that have been tested with optimal DI i have already tested about 1/3 of the cast with optimal DI i would just like to know it the rest of the testing necessary. Thanks all!!!

 

[McGyverAC]

So we can Ally people now?

More like ZSS, but yeah

 

[NonJohns]

Can you guys help me out with some theory crafting?
Dair (only the spike) to bouncing fish can kill ZZS at the ledge at 130% but, it seems like it can work at much higher percents.
It covers NO DI and maybe DI AWAY but it might be broken by DI IN. It's possible to cover NO DI and maybe DI IN with up air, but at a much smaller percent range.
If I remember right, it's not possible to cover techs (from dair spike) and everyone knows how safe dair is.(really unsafe)
What are potential uses for this?
For now all I can think of is using it for a hard read at 130-210%.
I was mainly wondering about the advantages over other kill options.

After some testing the info i found became null