Official The 1.1.5 project

[Deleted member]

Did anyone already tried : DTilt to Fair to Bouncing Fish ?

 

[Darklink401]

Did anyone already tried : DTilt to Fair to Bouncing Fish ?

From what I saw, they can jump out but I also might not have the best execution xD
I did get sour dtilt to bouncing fish to register as a combo though, which I had no idea was a thing, but I haven't been able to replicate it, so I'd have to test later with jump/airdodge.

 

[WondrousMoose]

From what I saw, they can jump out but I also might not have the best execution xD
I did get sour dtilt to bouncing fish to register as a combo though, which I had no idea was a thing, but I haven't been able to replicate it, so I'd have to test later with jump/airdodge.

Dtilt sourspot will combo into BF and sweetspot into Uair at the right percents.

 

[Ꮤhisker]

Hey guys, I just stumbled upon this thread and I think it's amazing to see all of the loyal Sheik users! I don't "lab" much...and I may not be the most helpful, but if there's anything I can do, I'd be more than happy to try and contribute to this awesome family!

 

[Ꮤhisker]

Idk if this has already been mentioned, but I saw a video I believe by Tree citing FF Uair > Usmash for a kill option at high percents. I only barely played around with this in training mode, shortly after watching his video. The two characters I tried it on were DK and Lucina (because my friends play them), and it worked nicely.

I was just thinking I'd throw it in here in case anyone forgot that option or if it's even a legitimate option to address. I'd be happy to try my hand at testing if you guys are interested???

 

[Darklink401]

WondrousMoose thanks for confirming! I knew about the upair, didn't know about the BF

Idk if this has already been mentioned, but I saw a video I believe by Tree citing FF Uair > Usmash for a kill option at high percents. I only barely played around with this in training mode, shortly after watching his video. The two characters I tried it on were DK and Lucina (because my friends play them), and it worked nicely.

I was just thinking I'd throw it in here in case anyone forgot that option or if it's even a legitimate option to address. I'd be happy to try my hand at testing if you guys are interested???

Hmm, doesn't upair have a lot of landing lag? I mean it might work, at like super high %s, but there's often better aerials you can fall with.

 

[Ꮤhisker]

WondrousMoose thanks for confirming! I knew about the upair, didn't know about the BF



Hmm, doesn't upair have a lot of landing lag? I mean it might work, at like super high %s, but there's often better aerials you can fall with.

Well, upair has a bit of landing lag if you fast fall it, but not much. The opponent is stuck in hitstun while Sheik is getting back up, so it evens out. This is more of a gimmick than tech, I suppose, but hey, whatever gets the job done.

 

[Mothyfish]

Also has anyone tested t see if the needle range nerf affect the needles to BF combo at kill percents?

It doesn't.

 

[PlayNuff]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GUm-R1TmAk I think it can be a good mixup since ftilt into ff uair is true, and i think it can lead into great combo if you read the opponent reaction, a bit like the dthrow ff uair of Dedede.

 

[Tristan_win]

I just got done watching _tree video when I thought of something.

Bthrow into Bouncing fish

If I recall correctly it was worst then fthrow due to difficult to preform which is why I didn't feel it was worth testing but maybe now...

 

[Absol]

I just got done watching _tree video when I thought of something.

Bthrow into Bouncing fish

If I recall correctly it was worst then fthrow due to difficult to preform which is why I didn't feel it was worth testing but maybe now...

Looking forward to the data you find Tristan!

 

[Zorasknight]

I used BThrow to BouncingFish quite often, yes it true combos and is hard to DI too. It combos a bit after Fthrow stops working, but it falls off earlier than pre patch FThrow to BF.

 

[Simikins]

Now that we actually really need it, I'll start work on finishing Fair > BF.
And just general labbing. I'll be back with a thread or two soon.

 

[_Tree]

yes it true combos

Do you have the data for this? I was always under the impression that it never comboed.

 

[Deleted member]

I just got done watching _tree video when I thought of something.

Bthrow into Bouncing fish

If I recall correctly it was worst then fthrow due to difficult to preform which is why I didn't feel it was worth testing but maybe now...

I also found something ?
If the opponent DI Away the F-Throw (in fear of BF / UpAir) but you B-Throw them,they will DI the B-Throw In which means that you can get a Bouncing Fish !

 

[Drew Smithey]

I also use b-throw to bouncing fish quite often. I think it would benefit everyone to have the numbers for it. I can lab it

 

[WondrousMoose]

I think it would be good to go back and update the matchup threads as necessary. It'll be a while before we have a firm grasp of matchups, but that should be pretty high priority.

 

[Zorasknight]

Do you have the data for this? I was always under the impression that it never comboed.

I can lab out the numbers with DI soon. unfortunately it may take a few days before I have the time :/

 

[Zorasknight]

::Ninja Edits to improve accuracy::

Okay, I labbed out percentages for BThrow to BF and results were... unexpected.

DI up and away with a buffered air dodge as the whole cast will keep you safe.

DI up or just DI away can be caught on most of the cast at 0% but will begin to whiff at around 20%+

DI in connects on Falcon to a whopping 50% and Mario up until 60% before an airdodge will let them escape.

Conclusion: it is NEVER a true combo. HOWEVER it can be a fantastic mixup to get late % damage on opponents

BONUS: you can land a footstool on a DI out which may take a stock depending on character.

Writeup on DTilt:

So labbing today brought some fun results: one of the things I labbed out was DTilt to BF on ledge, tipper DTilt true combos into BF regardless of DI, easiest to catch on an opponent regrabbing. Catches everyone at 100 and under, however lighter characters are launched too high to connect a BF to, and instead an Up Air is needed. Basically a free kill 130%+

DSmash:

Dsmash kill percents on falcon with tested optimal DI (including smash DI) is as follows on an omega stage (hyrule temple if curious) 140 at ledge 160 center stage and 200 opposite ledge.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

The nerfs really, really hurt. Like, brick to the face hurt. That being said I'm stubborn and refuse to drop my character because of said nerfs. Ask anyone who knows me, they'll tell you.

Also I was wondering about possible vanish shenanigans, since I'm not good at explaining things bear with me here.

I've baited people into airdodging after knocking them offstage and have killed them with vanish because of that. It's not vertical and it's not true but it IS something to consider looking into for a possible mixup. Most people would probably expect Fair or Bfish at high percentages offstage so when you hit them with it, it hits pretty hard.

 

[Mister_heath]

Absol _Tree @fyazko may have found something interesting. Ftilt to double jump needles to bf!
Very situation from what I have seen so far. It depends on the weight class. So there is no certain percent. I have only done it in the lab as well. So from what I'm seeing you could possibly bait and air dodge because they may expect the typical uair. I wanted to share this because it gives another method of killing or at least another option. I will try to post numbers on the cast as soon as I can.

 

[Deleted member]

Absol _Tree @fyazko may have found something interesting. Ftilt to double jump needles to bf!
Very situation from what I have seen so far. It depends on the weight class. So there is no certain percent. I have only done it in the lab as well. So from what I'm seeing you could possibly bait and air dodge because they may expect the typical uair. I wanted to share this because it gives another method of killing or at least another option. I will try to post numbers on the cast as soon as I can.

Yeah, i've done this a handful of times. Not really nothing more than a mixup/air dodge frame trap at best.
As far as percents, probably stick with something from Needles > BF percents.
Could also skip the needles and go for the bouncing fish upon reaction.
Sorry for the late replay, been busy with videos and such.

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

Yeah, i've done this a handful of times. Not really nothing more than a mixup/air dodge frame trap at best.
As far as percents, probably stick with something from Needles > BF percents.
Could also skip the needles and go for the bouncing fish upon reaction.
Sorry for the late replay, been busy with videos and such.

I usually wait for an airdodge and then Bfish after, it works but only if you condition your opponent into airdodging or if they do it instinctively. A good thing to do to get that reaction is to go offensive and keep up a barrage of fair/nair shenanigans but it doesn't always work on more patient opponents. Needles would PROBABLY help that out. I dunno. Food for thought?

 

[Amiracle]

I picked sheik up again after her nerfs and have been doing a few things differently. Fishing for needles into bouncing fish is something I do much more often, I back throw into bouncing fish a lot more, and I also use her Dsmash a bit more than I used to. I've never been a fan of vanish kills but it's something I'm trying to incorporate into my gameplay

 

[Lonky]

I'm absolutely loving this community.
Btw, I'll test the tipper D-Tilt > Up Air setup on FD with no DI, since it seems that it's really needed and no one is really testing it.

 

[Absol]

I'm absolutely loving this community.
Btw, I'll test the tipper D-Tilt > Up Air setup on FD with no DI, since it seems that it's really needed and no one is really testing it.

Much appreciated

 

[Simikins]

I'm absolutely loving this community.
Btw, I'll test the tipper D-Tilt > Up Air setup on FD with no DI, since it seems that it's really needed and no one is really testing it.

Make sure you have this open as reference:
http://smashboards.com/threads/dtilt-to-uair-kill-combo-potential-unveiled.386027/
That's the original dtilt > upair thread. Dtilt has been changed slightly since then, so all the %s shown will be a little low, but it should cut down the amount of work you need to do.

 

[Lonky]

Make sure you have this open as reference:
http://smashboards.com/threads/dtilt-to-uair-kill-combo-potential-unveiled.386027/
That's the original dtilt > upair thread. Dtilt has been changed slightly since then, so all the %s shown will be a little low, but it should cut down the amount of work you need to do.

And I read this after nearly 10 hours of testing.
End me.

 

[Lord Renning]

I saw Void use a falling up air to drag the opponent into a down smash by the edge of the stage. Mr. R used a variant of it later. It might be worth seeing if lightly buffed Down Smash can kill at the percentages where up air is still possible after a throw.

 

[Judas Furri]

Hey guys hows is everyone? Can someone here link me a thread on sheiks MU spread? by the way guys great work! if there is anyway i can help let me know! I would have come sooner but i didnt even know this was a thread! Also is there anywhere else I can contribute?

↑
"I'm absolutely loving this community.
Btw, I'll test the tipper D-Tilt > Up Air setup on FD with no DI, since it seems that it's really needed and no one is really testing it."
yo were you able to get the % on this? if not I would be happy to take over. or if you want to pass some of it off onto me. justet me know my man

I think falling U-air is an option that is highly underused. i went to a tourney and was busting the 0-60 semi-chain grab out. that was pre patch. what do you guys think of falling U-air as a kill setup? im partial to tipper upsmash as a confirm but at the very least it sets up a nice jab jab grab. or even jab jab fair as stated above which could potentially lead to a bf kill. Maybe as a jump get up coverage near the ledge with a fsmash follow up? im trying to figure out a use for the fsmash and i am failing. haha thoughts?

↑
"Did anyone already tried : DTilt to Fair to Bouncing Fish ?"
I use it as a mix up but honestly its not too reliable. if your quick enough sure it works but it is escapable. I get kills with it mostly after a regrab or beating the 2 frames

↑
"The nerfs really, really hurt. Like, brick to the face hurt. That being said I'm stubborn and refuse to drop my character because of said nerfs. Ask anyone who knows me, they'll tell you. Also I was wondering about possible vanish shenanigans, since I'm not good at explaining things bear with me here. I've baited people into airdodging after knocking them offstage and have killed them with vanish because of that. It's not vertical and it's not true but it IS something to consider looking into for a possible mixup. Most people would probably expect Fair or Bfish at high percentages offstage so when you hit them with it, it hits pretty hard."
BUMP. I have been an avid grenade user but mostly for edge guards. i have been known to score kills with grenade/needles/BF or just subtract the needlez. tbh im not sure I am properly using grenades so if anyone can add to this? that would be awesome

 

[Lonky]

yo were you able to get the % on this? if not I would be happy to take over. or if you want to pass some of it off onto me. justet me know my man

My Wii U broke and I had some Internet problems, so yeah, I'll pass you the percentages that I got.
http://pastebin.com/jUbvJEPY

 

[_Tree]

Judas Furri for the love of all that is holy and righteous, please do not double post, let alone quadruple post. General forum etiquette is to post one response and then wait for a reply from someone else, as to reduce clutter and over-saturation. I give everyone a chance with this since people might not know, but if this happens again you will receive a warning.

Please move all of your text into your first post and then delete the others.

 

[Judas Furri]

Judas Furri for the love of all that is holy and righteous, please do not double post, let alone quadruple post. General forum etiquette is to post one response and then wait for a reply from someone else, as to reduce clutter and over-saturation. I give everyone a chance with this since people might not know, but if this happens again you will receive a warning.

Please move all of your text into your first post and then delete the others.

My bad bro. I didnt know. idk how to delete them. ive never been asked too. gimme a bit im trying to figure it out

 

[HorrorAvengers]

Made a new account just to participate here. Question for everyone, pre patch on most of the cast, down throw to footstool to weak Nair was pretty nutty at low percents, post patch I haven't been able to pull it off as easily. Does anybody know if the timing got tighter, or it was removed completely? I haven't played sheik much since my DS died so I'm not sure if I'm out of practice or if the patch screwed it.

Worth noting, pre patch it was possible regardless of di, however you had to read the di and if they choose toward you, you'd need soft spot bair, instead of nail

 

[Judas Furri]

My Wii U broke and I had some Internet problems, so yeah, I'll pass you the percentages that I got.
http://pastebin.com/jUbvJEPY

How were you testing this? FD/Control/? also is the second set the numbers you came up with because the first set is exactly the same. thanks for the pass man Ive been dying to contribute

 

[Lonky]

How were you testing this? FD/Control/? also is the second set the numbers you came up with because the first set is exactly the same. thanks for the pass man Ive been dying to contribute

Yes, FD/Control.
And the first number is when it starts to combo and kill, while the second is the last percentage where it does combo.

 

[Guimartgon]

Hi there, I did a thing today. On T&C(And I'd guess it'd work in other places with platforms on the edges like BF DL64 and sometimes SV). I backthrew my opponent, jumped, Bouncing Fished onto the platform getting the canceled animation thingy, he jumped and I killed him with Uair on his jump. I don't have any proper way to record this but essentially:

Tossing the opponent out, and then baiting a jump by using BF into a platform and then killing the opponent off could be a thing? Finals are coming up so I can't really work on this but I'm just going to throw it out there.

Also I've had a fair amount of success against people using that bouncing fish "cancel"(it doesn't really cancel the animation, but it saves tons of lag AND it moves sheik slightly forward, was it called ledge flipping?.) on BF by hitting my opponent with a Fair at high %s on one of the lower platforms and being able to chase them by dropping off the platform and bouncing fish "canceling" into the other platform or in BF, DL64 and other stages with platforms, hitting with SHFF anything without the need of being on the platform and then using that flipping animation to mix my opponent up and maneuver across the stage. There's probably been a lot of work on this but since I don't see top players use it I thought maybe it could be useful.

 

[NonJohns]

I'm assuming weak nair to up smash needs your opponent needs to be above the height you're going to be up smashing on.
One situation that might satisfy the criteria is nairing your opponent off the top platform and up smashing on the lower platform.

 

[Lonky]

I'm assuming weak nair to up smash needs your opponent needs to be above the height you're going to be up smashing on.
One situation that might satisfy the criteria is nairing your opponent off the top platform and up smashing on the lower platform.

It's more of a situational thing, Weak Nair into Bouncing Fish is better imo

 

[Simikins]

It's more of a situational thing, Weak Nair into Bouncing Fish is better imo

Weak nair upsmash is better, but harder to get.
Best on floaties.