Tell Me Why YOUR Main is Underrated or Viable

[Sol Squid]

Smash 4 is probably the most balanced Smash game, considering that it is being actively balanced.
Due to this, you can main most characters on the roster and still be viable.
I main Lucas/Robin/Villager/ZSS.
In my opinion, people put Lucas where he should be. Not too great, but definitely not bad. People appreciate Lucas for what he is.

Lucas -
Pros - Good recovery, a bit hard to gimp. Harder than Ness, easier than others. PK Fire can be used to space in the air. PK Freeze is quick. PSI Magnet has a wide range and a good hitbox. Zair is good at spacing. D-Throw combos into multiple Nairs into Fairs or Uairs. Up smash kills early, Down smash lasts a while. Two EASY spikes. Up-b semi-traps opponents. Back throw kills at a good percent, not too great. Dash attack has high knockback. PK Freeze can also be used to edgeguard. Side smash is also pretty good. (Reflects projectiles)

Cons - PK Fire can't chain. Still easy to gimp the recovery. The Zair is too short and tough to recover with. Up-b isn't a killing option. Hardly any options out of F-Throw, U-Throw, and B-Throw. PK Freeze can't be used in the air, it puts you in free fall. Very few options overall, you have to constantly think of new options. Up Smash has a lot of lag, so it is kind of useless. This doesn't seem like a lot of things. But few options should act as 500 cons.

I'm sure you guys can cover many other characters. So, thats it for me. Go crazy.

 

[Xermo]

Too bad smash 4 is a first for many; Ness is actually good and seen as a tier *****.

 

[Sol Squid]

V

Too bad smash 4 is a first for many; Ness is actually good and seen as a tier *****.

I don't see Ness as a tier *****
His back throw is just too strong in my opinion. If you think of the most powerful tool Ness has, you will think of his back throw. Playing to not be grabbed at 70-80 percent is annoying.
I am glad that Ness is good now. I love seeing previously low tier characters, (Ness, Roy, etc...) become better in later smash games. I hate characters that are always high tiered. (COUGH COUGH)

 

[1FC0]

I do not know if my main is underrated in how viable he is but I do know that he is underrated in how awesome he is.

Pros - Only character that kind of actually exists in real life. Can generate the sturdiest item out of all character generated items. Looks awesome when he fires his laser. Looks awesome when he does anything besides firing his laser. Looks awesome when he does nothing.

Cons - Sakurai hates him apparently since he only got a huge nerf and a removal of a cool glitch in patches.

 

[Sol Squid]

I think ROB is pretty cool. ROB is fun to play, I'm nowhere near good with him though.

 

[LancerStaff]

Pit definitely. People are always comparing him to the likes of Marth when he's easily a whole tier above him... Pit both makes much better use of his dash speed (anything besides specials are viable as heck out of dash) and has one of the best projectiles out there. Even if we ignore all of that and look at Marth and Pit when just standing around Pit's still probably better. They both excel in offstage play, have effectively equal range and frame data, and move around at similar speeds. Marth's big advantage compared to Pit is overall power. Pit has a much better recovery (which itself is underrated) and a bunch of ways to make up for the power difference like easy and reliable combos, tons of moves built for punishing that aren't laggy as heck, and a decent kill throw.

Only reason I have to compare him to Marth is because nobody else seems to understand what the character is supposed to do... He's where Marth's speed and combos went.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Pit definitely.

Zero definitely seems to take the Pit bros seriously if his YouTube video is still up to date after the update. They just seem to have a very good grasp of the fundamentals and are thus very easy to pick up. Their aerials are fast and strong for what they are as well, and though pit's arrows are admittedly preferable, I can still make good use with dark pit's in neutral and for limited camping.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

People don't seem to realize that Ike can kill with dash attack at 80%, and all of his smashes kill at 40%, other than downsmash

 

[ZDW98]

People don't seem to realize that Ike can kill with dash attack at 80%, and all of his smashes kill at 40%, other than downsmash

Right? Also, at about 100+ percents with mid to heavyweights, Ike can up throw to up air you and kill but you may have to read an air dodge. But besides that Ike is definitely underrated and people should definitely give him the credit he deserves :^)

 

[|RK|]

I voted yes, but I also mean no. Such is the life of a Kirby main. Some people put him in bottom tier, others put him a little too high. I guess I can't really complain about where he is if people put him according to his power ranking. But maybe a little lower b/c the DLC characters naturally skew the thing.

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Right? Also, at about 100+ percents with mid to heavyweights, Ike can up throw to up air you and kill but you may have to read an air dodge. But besides that Ike is definitely underrated and people should definitely give him the credit he deserves :^)

too bad that his grab is pretty bad and it is really only an option against people who shield all the time, otherwise dash attack is usually way more reliable or ff fair

 

[LancerStaff]

Zero definitely seems to take the Pit bros seriously if his YouTube video is still up to date after the update. They just seem to have a very good grasp of the fundamentals and are thus very easy to pick up. Their aerials are fast and strong for what they are as well, and though pit's arrows are admittedly preferable, I can still make good use with dark pit's in neutral and for limited camping.

It's funny because players like Zero actually think pretty highly of them. The viability survey put them right outside of top fifteen.

It just feels like a slap in the face when people non-sarcastically tell me mr. pha1re sowrd is the best swordsman. Like, even Lucina is better then him...

 

[MarioFireRed]

Shulk's got versatility and the range and useful character-specific tech such as MALLC to stand up to the good characters.

Unfortunately I don't find him viable when the most common ones are those who take huge advantage over his combo-food weight/height, eternal lag in everything, and easily gimpable offstage game.

 

[ZDW98]

too bad that his grab is pretty bad and it is really only an option against people who shield all the time, otherwise dash attack is usually way more reliable or ff fair

True. Wish his his grab was a bit better but at least he has options out of his throws. Jab cancel into grab is something that can kinda gaurente a grab for him but eh he's still pretty good :^)

 

[Powerman293]

A little bit. Marth has some good two or 3 step combos and rage + tipper changes the pacing of a match. Plus, he has pretty great dance trotting, whcih is only going to become more prevelent as time goes on.

 

[Mario766]

Ike's very underrated. His standing grab is a glaring flaw but who has a standing grab that is GOOD.

Solid combos at any percents outside of kill percent when even n-air starts killing. Kill confirms off N-Air and grab. His combo starters are fast and aren't laggy, and his slower moves have been sped up making them easier to use. His Jab combo is one of the best in the game. Jab 1 is frame 4, good range for a non-disjoint and sets up for mix-ups and Ike can chain jabs through combat walking. His tilts are all amazing, up tilt kills almost as early as up smash, hits BEHIND him, and is frame 11. You can combo into up tilt at low percents out of n-air for 23 percent too. Down tilt is lightning fast at frame 7, combos into f-air at mid percents and can be used out of jab 1 on some characters. His F-tilt is long range, great out of pivots and is now frame 13 so it's much better as a punish option and still kills early at ledges.

His aerials are also much better now. His F-Air hits frame 12, which seems slow but it hits at an incredible range and arc starting above his head. He can cover the top platform of BF on a short hop with the hitbox. His N-Air hits all around him, combos into jab and down tilt at low percents, combos into f-air at mid percents and at high percents combos into f-air/u-air/b-air depending on the hitbox for a kill. His up air lasts for a century, kills early due to the new BKB buff and has a huge horizontal disjoint. It's also amazing for platform pressure as it's -2 on shield and has only 15 frames of end lag if you don't AC it. His down air, while low in uses, still has a very strong spike and can kill off the sour spot with the disjoint which makes it easier to beat linear recoveries leading to early kills.

Ike's only real weaknesses is his lack of strong approach options, gimpable recovery, his high end lag if miss spaced, and a lack of guaranteed kill confirms. Extremely viable, high mid tier at the least.

 

[LRodC]

Ike's very underrated. His standing grab is a glaring flaw but who has a standing grab that is GOOD.

Solid combos at any percents outside of kill percent when even n-air starts killing. Kill confirms off N-Air and grab. His combo starters are fast and aren't laggy, and his slower moves have been sped up making them easier to use. His Jab combo is one of the best in the game. Jab 1 is frame 4, good range for a non-disjoint and sets up for mix-ups and Ike can chain jabs through combat walking. His tilts are all amazing, up tilt kills almost as early as up smash, hits BEHIND him, and is frame 11. You can combo into up tilt at low percents out of n-air for 23 percent too. Down tilt is lightning fast at frame 7, combos into f-air at mid percents and can be used out of jab 1 on some characters. His F-tilt is long range, great out of pivots and is now frame 13 so it's much better as a punish option and still kills early at ledges.

His aerials are also much better now. His F-Air hits frame 12, which seems slow but it hits at an incredible range and arc starting above his head. He can cover the top platform of BF on a short hop with the hitbox. His N-Air hits all around him, combos into jab and down tilt at low percents, combos into f-air at mid percents and at high percents combos into f-air/u-air/b-air depending on the hitbox for a kill. His up air lasts for a century, kills early due to the new BKB buff and has a huge horizontal disjoint. It's also amazing for platform pressure as it's -2 on shield and has only 15 frames of end lag if you don't AC it. His down air, while low in uses, still has a very strong spike and can kill off the sour spot with the disjoint which makes it easier to beat linear recoveries leading to early kills.

Ike's only real weaknesses is his lack of strong approach options, gimpable recovery, his high end lag if miss spaced, and a lack of guaranteed kill confirms. Extremely viable, high mid tier at the least.

Charizard and Bowser both have good standing grabs.

Anyway, I agree that Roy is pretty overrated and that Ike is probably the best swordsman in the game. I also think that Roy and Marth are very similar in viability, with Lucina not being too far behind either.

 

[MysteriousSilver]

She's not. She's pretty garbo.

Fair isn't bad. Bair is a beautiful gift sent from the heavens. Most of her moveset ranks between meh and unusable.

Mewtwo though, I feel he's very underrated. He's not good, exactly, but he's not awful. He has a great kill throw, a good projectile, all kinds of landing/movement options, a great offstage game, a fairly safe Damash for yolo roll hunting, and more.

Too bad he dies at 70% and no body bothered to QA his hitboxes.

 

[Sol Squid]

It just feels like a slap in the face when people non-sarcastically tell me mr. pha1re sowrd is the best swordsman. Like, even Lucina is better then him...

Anyway, I agree that Roy is pretty overrated and that Ike is probably the best swordsman in the game. I also think that Roy and Marth are very similar in viability, with Lucina not being too far behind either.

Actual question, why do people think that Marth, Lucina, and Roy are similar in the viability scale? Roy's side smash can kill at 47%. Earlier than most of what Ike can do, and far less laggy. Seriously, f-smash has like no lag. Roy also has so little lag on so many of his moves. Roy also has guranteed D-Throw combos.

 

[Rashyboy05]

The day people will stop saying Marth's sword got "shorter" is the day I'll stop saying Marth (or Lucina to an extent) is underrated.

Actual question, why do people think that Marth, Lucina, and Roy are similar in the viability scale? Roy's side smash can kill at 47%. Earlier than most of what Ike can do, and far less laggy. Seriously, f-smash has like no lag. Roy also has so little lag on so many of his moves. Roy also has guranteed D-Throw combos.

Marth has the range advantage over Roy and Marth's aerial game is considered better than Roy's.

Summoning @Vipermoon64 because he's better at explaining Marth stuff better than me.

 

[Sol Squid]

Until the day people will stop saying Marth's sword got "shorter" is the day I'll stop saying Marth (or Lucina to an extent) is underrated.

I think Marth will be underrated until he can chain Fairs. Which probably will never happen. I miss Melee Marth.

 

[Axel311]

Nope, Dedede isn't underrated. He flat out stinks and I'm honest enough to admit it. Might be in the bottom 10 characters at this point. I wish there was a more viable character that fit my playstyle as well as he does. Sakurai frame data buffs please to tilts and aerials.

 

[Mario766]

Actual question, why do people think that Marth, Lucina, and Roy are similar in the viability scale? Roy's side smash can kill at 47%. Earlier than most of what Ike can do, and far less laggy. Seriously, f-smash has like no lag. Roy also has so little lag on so many of his moves. Roy also has guranteed D-Throw combos.

Roy's down throw doesn't have guaranteed combos, they are dependent on DI. Also Roy's F-Smash has a FAF of 55, which means there's 40 frames of endlag.

 

[MisterDom]

I think Jigglypuff is highly underrated, being said by top players being among the worst in the game. She definitely isn't too good, and lacks many good things and has terrible frame data, but with correct baiting, punishing, reflexes, and comboing, Jigglypuff can do a lot of great things.

I think until we see those great things by a good player, she'll stay at the bottom of tier lists. I think she'll be like the yoshi in melee, eventually rising up in tier lists becuase of that great player.

 

[Rashyboy05]

I think Marth will be underrated until he can chain Fairs. Which probably will never happen. I miss Melee Marth.

The only reason why double Fair is good in Melee/Brawl was because of the Godly autocancel frames. If Sakurai brought back Double Fair and kept it's rather ****ty landing lag and it's horrible autocancel frames then it still would be bad.

 

[Sol Squid]

Roy's down throw doesn't have guaranteed combos, they are dependent on DI. Also Roy's F-Smash has a FAF of 55, which means there's 40 frames of endlag.

D-Throw into up-b is actually guranteed for a while. The character has to be able to DI very quickly and air dodge. At mid percents it is very hard to DI away.

 

[LRodC]

Actual question, why do people think that Marth, Lucina, and Roy are similar in the viability scale? Roy's side smash can kill at 47%. Earlier than most of what Ike can do, and far less laggy. Seriously, f-smash has like no lag. Roy also has so little lag on so many of his moves. Roy also has guranteed D-Throw combos.

Marth's tippered forward smash actually kills earlier than Roy's sweetspotted forward smash with less lag, but since it's easier to hit with Roy's sweetspot, people complain about that one.

Marth and Lucina have better aerials and frame data, and they are generally more safe characters than Roy due to their sweetspots (or lack thereof for Lucina). To make up for that, Roy is faster, has an easier to land sweetspot, and he has better combos and throws. I'd say they're about even. If one is better than another, it's by very little.

Anyway, for the sake of the thread, I do think Mewtwo is an underrated character, but I still don't think he's that good. His punish potential is insane with Shadow Ball and Disable, and he's very good off stage with an excellent recovery. His mobility is pretty good as well, with his speed being the same as WFT's. His weight and hurtbox isn't good, but I don't think they're the things holding him back the most, I think it's his hitboxes being very shoddy. Most of his tail hitboxes, forward air, and grab don't match the animation, and their range is way worse than they look. This is what I believe is holding him back from viability, and once they buff that and give him some other QoL buffs and fixes, he will become a good character.

 

[Rhus]

McCloud is in a weird spot in my opinion. I think people underestimate his flaws, in the sense that they are much more glaring than people realize. Being combo food, featherweight and incredibly easy to gimp with small, short lasting hitboxes and virtually no priority make him sound awful. I think people overrate Fox here, claiming that his weaknesses aren't that severe when they are far more pronounced than virtually any other top/high tier.

On the flip side, I think his potential is underrated. I think Fox has incredible potential in this game because of his incredible mobility options, attack speed and fall speed which allows for really effective mixups, tricks and mindgames when he is played very intelligently. I think Fox's potential at very optimum level is fairly underrated right now.

 

[pershona]

Sheik definitely isn't underrated lol.

 

[monzer]

If any one of my mains are underated, it has to be Villager. Not only is he almost impossible to gimp, but he also has some of the best ledge guarding on the game with his forward smash. All he needs in one down smash as 100% and you're dead or one charged off stage F-smash at 30% and you're dead. He also has a kill throw. Most people put him in the lower ranks of high tier and I think he needs to be at least 6 spaces higher than where most people put him. Not top-tier, but definitely in the high ranking of high tier.

 

[Xeze]

Mario is not underrated. If anything he is overrated, since some people say he is like top tier when he's not. Don't get me wrong, Mario's pretty good. Some of Mario's are underrated though, like his FLUDD and edgeguarding capabilities.

Samus on the other hand is underrated. The problems are there, specially hitbox placements, but even with that she has some nice combos with u-air strings and up B, a killing projectile, missiles for zoning and a z-air. Plus being a heavyweight allows Samus to live long.

 

[Wintermelon43]

OMG he's underrated. Kirby has many things good about him, which I'm sure most people who place him way too low don't know about him. While his Kill throw doesn't ko too much at low percents, a video from Nintendo Unity proved that Kirby's up throw is the 16th most powerful in the game, and that one had 60+ spots due to counting all of Shulk's Monados, Olimar's Pikmin, ETC. And his Combo Throws have a TON of combos, and that amount of combos PLUS having three good combo throws, make his comobing unpredictable, espicially since you can do that on the air. speaking of which, his air attacks are VERY good. Sure, his approach sucks, but his approaching isn't predictable, neutral air can be used for comboing, up air can KO at high percents and can Combo, Back air can KO AND keep comboing, like up air, down air can spike, giving him good offstage (Along with his six jumps), and his forward air combos. Up tilt is like Fox's and Mario's in that it can combo muitiple times, AND can start a big combo. Down tilt can trip, leading to a dash attack or smash attacks, and can let the opponent away from you. You can combo from dash attack (But not as good as Meta Knight), and he has a good jab, which can be used to punish very well his smashes are great for KOing; his Up Smash is even stronger than Fox's (Although with more startup and possibly endlag), for forward smash is REALLY good for KOing. His six jumps give him good recovery. He can use his opponent's neutral special (Which is useless for Jigglypuff........ but useally a great thing). He has a fast pummel; I'd say it might be one of the best.

And with customs on, it gets even better. Hammer can hit with his quicker version custom. Grouding Stone and Meteor Stone both make Stone useful, Grounding allowing you to KO sooner, and Meteor improving his off-Stage even more. Jumping Inhale is good for recoverying, and to make it easier to inhale. and Wave Cutter (Up-Special-3, don't remember the name. I think it's that though.)...... Oh, Wave Cutter...... It gives him a great finisher (Which can KO), makes his recovery even better than it already is, and allows you to quickly attack them at any time, and prevent them from hitting you. Sure, it leaves you helpless, and it doesn't have a projectile, but it's worth it.

Oh, and his matchups? Out of the "Top 15", this is his matchups:

:50:50
:45:55 (A lot of people say that customs make this 50:50 too)
:Don't fully remember, pretty sure it was 40:60 though. maybe 45:55, but 40:60
:45:55
:60:40 Crouching really helps the matchups.
:40:60
:55:45 Easy to combo, and the combos are very effective for him due to fast-fall. and some of his options aren't as good for Kirby.
:45:55
:60:40
:If I'm correct, it's 45:55 or 50:50, pretty sure it's 50:50 but not FULLY sure
:I think it's either 45:55 or 50:50, same as Diddy except more likely 45:55 than 50:50
IIRC, it's 55:45
:45:55 (Many Kirby's think it's 55:45 though. odd)
:35:65 (DARN YOU)
:55:45 Copy ability is litertatly that good.

Average Score:47.5:53.5

Slightly disadvantageous, but MUCH better than most other characters, and it becomes five times better after that. Average after that is probably 55:45 or 60:40, very much likely inbetween those.

IMO 19th customs off, and 16th customs off. Don't believe me? Read the above. Who's low tier now? (In Dark Pit's voice)

 

[ZDW98]

Charizard and Bowser both have good standing grabs.

Anyway, I agree that Roy is pretty overrated and that Ike is probably the best swordsman in the game. I also think that Roy and Marth are very similar in viability, with Lucina not being too far behind either.

Idk man. Roy is overrated but not to the extent that you say. He is SUPER strong and super fast. He has more options out of down throw than Marth and is eruption... thing has like no lag at all. He is definitely not as good as people say but he is definitely better than Marth :^)

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Link is pretty underrated.

He has incredible frame data on his arials. (Nair-10frames landing lag, bair-10frames landing lag, fair-12 frames landing lag) wich is actually even with sheik.
Great zoning game, awesome traps. Good off stage game as well.
No problem killing.
Insane hit boxes on uair/dair
Now he has Dthrow combos, and a huge grab range.

The only things holding link back is his long jump squat animation, and the lack of an attack faster than a 7th frame startup. Im PR in my state with only link.
Also, link does very well vs rosa/luma. Wich is my most hated character to play against, so that makes me happy.

 

[ZDW98]

Actual question, why do people think that Marth, Lucina, and Roy are similar in the viability scale? Roy's side smash can kill at 47%. Earlier than most of what Ike can do, and far less laggy. Seriously, f-smash has like no lag. Roy also has so little lag on so many of his moves. Roy also has guranteed D-Throw combos.

Exactly! I mean I agree with Roy being a little overrated because of that God awful recovery but he is still super viable in tournament

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

Shulk's got versatility and the range and useful character-specific tech such as MALLC to stand up to the good characters.

Unfortunately I don't find him viable when the most common ones are those who take huge advantage over his combo-food weight/height, eternal lag in everything, and easily gimpable offstage game.

I think Shulk has a lot of issues with his startup time for moves and the active hitboxes in them. it take something like 30 frames to start forward smash and then in only lasts like 5 frames, and it takes another 30 seconds for him to recover from that (don't hold me to those numbers exactly) I feel that if he had better frame data he would be much better

Also, link does very well vs rosa/luma. Wich is my most hated character to play against, so that makes me happy.

Doesn't Luma just absorb the arrows and other projectiles Link uses to wall people out though?

 

[Sol Squid]

Doesn't Luma just absorb the arrows and other projectiles Link uses to wall people out though?

I guess if Link can rush down fast enough he can attack Rosalina in her absorbtion frames.

 

[Putuk]

You want me to tell YOU why KING DEDEDE is the king of the battlefield?

I'll just give you a whole boatload of pros right here, right now!

Pros:

Spoiler

He doesn't take **** from ANYONE. Not even ferocious monsters.

He is gorgeous and has a beautiful smile.

He is a winner and the regent of an entire kingdom.

He is an IRONFISTED leader!

He will not hesitate to ask for help from others, if he needs to.

He is open about his problems and doesn't try to hide them.

This image speaks for itself.

He knows how to enjoy the simple things in life.

He makes splendid home videos!

He knows how do deal with threats to his kingdom and people.

He has no self-esteem issues.

He looks down upon his defeated enemies.

He also knows how to defeat the enemies very well.

He encourages others, if need be.

He's a professional at demoralizing his adversaries.

He has incredible experiences while others sleep.

And most importantly; he is always there when you need him.

Cons:
There are none, since Dedede is already

and this fact is indisputable.

 

[AnchorTea]

Does an aspect of a character count?

Villager's Wood Chip is surprisingly a good tool at the right time. Of course, since the item is a nuisance to most. It gets ignored by an incredible amount, when it is a great gimping tool. It's like having the Slingshot as a Uair ar Dair. Except that it does just a slightly more knockback than the sourspot Fair/Bair.

The only issues is that the Wood Chip is useless when Z dropped, it has a 50% chance of being dropped from a timber, and it does 3% only. (Seriously)

If there is one thing Villager needs a buff on, it would be the Wood Chip.

 

[Sol Squid]

Does an aspect of a character count?

Villager's Wood Chip is surprisingly a good tool at the right time. Of course, since the item is a nuisance to most. It gets ignored by an incredible amount, when it is a great gimping tool. It's like having the Slingshot as a Uair ar Dair. Except that it does just a slightly more knockback than the sourspot Fair/Bair.

The only issues is that the Wood Chip is useless when Z dropped, it has a 50% chance of being dropped from a timber, and it does 3% only. (Seriously)

If there is one thing Villager needs a buff on, it would be the Wood Chip.

I haven't been on Smashboards for a month and you are still talking about the woodchip. Xp