Technical knowledge compilation (Gamecubes, controllers, TVs, recording)

[9bit]

Edit: From 9bit’s text, it seems that with his mod, it’s no longer safe to press as strongly as you want to, since the rubber plate will be the only part providing resistance against your grey trigger piece. So, unless I’m misunderstanding, pressing strongly might make your rubber plate fall out, so you can’t hard press any more (until you open the controller and put it back in). This does not happen with my mod (but again, maybe it isn’t with his either, not sure).

I don't really understand what you mean here. I can press my shoulder button as hard as I want. All I've done is make it so that the rod inside it is longer, everything else is the same. The little "spacer" I put it can't fall out, it's all contained within the black tube that holds the shoulder button in place, and I have no idea how the rubber plate could fall out.

I can take some more pictures if that would help.

 

[Kadano]

I don't really understand what you mean here. I can press my shoulder button as hard as I want. All I've done is make it so that the rod inside it is longer, everything else is the same. The little "spacer" I put it can't fall out, it's all contained within the black tube that holds the shoulder button in place, and I have no idea how the rubber plate could fall out.

I can take some more pictures if that would help.

Good to know that’s not a problem, I was misunderstanding you then. I’m gonna try it soon too, thanks for sharing! =)

 

[Kadano]

@ 9bit @ SpiderMad I’ve got your mod to work, but in a slightly different way. I, again, used pieces of a plastic bottle, which I folded to a rod and pushed inside the trigger tube.

I also measured the possible length range for the rod:

I think that 20 mm length is optimal. This still retains a little bit of the analog input range, so you can L-cancel and lightshield with soft press, but immediately after that you get digital press (for powershield and teching).

I should note that you need to fold the plastic quite often so it becomes stable enough and doesn’t bend when pressing down hard. The one in the image above resists even when I press with maximum strength (much stronger than I ever do while playing), so I think using plastic bottles as base material is good enough.
If you have some wooden rods of the right diameter (~4mm) around, you can use that too to put it into the hole. Or a small screw that’s just thick enough for screwing into the tube. But I like using the plastic, I can quickly shorten its length with a scissor if it turns out too long.

 

[SpiderMad]

@ Kadano Sweet, how's your preference of it versus your previous method. Do you feel having the spring be stronger(unweakened/unmodified) is better for this than having it weakened?

 

[Kadano]

@ Kadano Sweet, how's your preference of it versus your previous method

At the moment I’d rather use what I’m used to, since having the digital press point higher up feels very different and I need to use a different wavedash timing. After some weeks of getting used to, I think that the DP elevation method will feel slightly better, though.

 

[SpiderMad]

At the moment I’d rather use what I’m used to, since having the digital press point higher up feels very different and I need to use a different wavedash timing. After some weeks of getting used to, I think that the DP elevation method will feel slightly better, though.

Feel, as in also more ergonomic you presume? Are you using a strong or weak spring, and a normal or heavenly weakened hard press with it?

 

[Kadano]

Yes, more ergonomic (I have long fingers). I use full length spring and perforated rubber plate.

 

[Madcowdesease]

Would it be possible to utilize the 5v power supply on a ripped out gcc cord/wavebird reciever, and add a female usb port onto it so I can plug in my phone to charge on a gamecube/wii????

 

[Kadano]

Would it be possible to utilize the 5v power supply on a ripped out gcc cord/wavebird reciever, and add a female usb port onto it so I can plug in my phone to charge on a gamecube/wii????

5v on GCC port is only on if the rumble signal is active. So you’d have to somehow get the Gamecube to continuously output rumble. Also, the Gamecube would have to be on permanently since it doesn’t have low-power states like the Wii, so you’d draw ~ 30 Watts of which a maximum of 3 (probably more like 0.25-0.5) get through to your phone.

I don’t think it’s worth the effort.

 

[SpiderMad]

At the moment I’d rather use what I’m used to, since having the digital press point higher up feels very different and I need to use a different wavedash timing. After some weeks of getting used to, I think that the DP elevation method will feel slightly better, though.

Any updates on your opinions?

 

[Kadano]

Any updates on your opinions?

Oh, sorry. To be honest, it felt too unusual so I stopped using it.

 

[SpiderMad]

Oh, sorry. To be honest, it felt too unusual so I stopped using it.

Hmmm, so you do prefer your old method then? With the plastic being used to shorten the analog.

Do you have any plans to revisit this method in any form? Are there any other new mods out there or you've created you're considering/testing?

 

[Kadano]

Hmmm, so you do prefer your old method then? With the plastic being used to shorten the analog.

Do you have any plans to revisit this method in any form?

Yeah, since I’m used to the click position being at it’s normal (unmodded) position.
I think I explained everything there is to it in the video I linked earlier, so no, no plans.

 

[FlamingForce]

Is it possible to swap out controller cords?

My main controller crapped out on me a while ago, the Z button started dropping inputs.
I'm guessing this is because of the cord, which had been handled poorly by the previous owner (tight winding)
The copper wires are clearly visible through tears in the cord at the base of the controller, so I was wondering if I could swap it out for a different one (I have some controller lying around) and save my baby.

 

[SpiderMad]

Kadano

So the controller I use is really old, and for some reason for as long as I can remember its L digital press has been completely intangible, where you just go past a certain point and it works without any sense of a click or anything. (I use only L).
This is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-XdNjpR2LI

Today while playing with people and getting up I caught my foot in the cord and yanked my controller off the table into the ground forcefully. When I played again I noticed the L digital press.. suddenly had its own click trigger/mechanism I had never seen before. Then after about 10 matches, I practiced WD'ing with my R trigger for the heck of it (since I don't normally use it), but then when I went back to using L I noticed the click mechanism was back to being disappeared. I either somehow used the L enough to make the mechanism go away again and didn't notice right away, or even weirder possibly messing with the R somehow maybe did something (though this makes even less sense).

I'm confused what the hell is up with my controller. I'm also confused on a personal stand point if I want the mechanism of the click there or not in the first place, since I like how it is now for the most ergonomic but I've always felt like having an actual click helps with WD OOS and a little more accurate platform wavelands. If I open my controller up I don't know if I might end up screwing up the decade old magic that's enabling it to have no click. I'd definitely record myself opening it up if I do.

 

[Kadano]

Kadano

So the controller I use is really old, and for some reason for as long as I can remember its L digital press has been completely intangible, where you just go past a certain point and it works without any sense of a click or anything. (I use only L).
This is it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-XdNjpR2LI

Today while playing with people and getting up I caught my foot in the cord and yanked my controller off the table into the ground forcefully. When I played again I noticed the L digital press.. suddenly had its own click trigger/mechanism I had never seen before. Then after about 10 matches, I practiced WD'ing with my R trigger for the heck of it (since I don't normally use it), but then when I went back to using L I noticed the click mechanism was back to being disappeared. I either somehow used the L enough to make the mechanism go away again and didn't notice right away, or even weirder possibly messing with the R somehow maybe did something (though this makes even less sense).

I'm confused what the hell is up with my controller. I'm also confused on a personal stand point if I want the mechanism of the click there or not in the first place, since I like how it is now for the most ergonomic but I've always felt like having an actual click helps with WD OOS and a little more accurate platform wavelands. If I open my controller up I don't know if I might end up screwing up the decade old magic that's enabling it to have no click. I'd definitely record myself opening it up if I do.

Probably the rubber plate is completely torn. A friend has had a similar issue and that’s what was the root cause. If you do open the controller, the inner torn part of the rubber plate will probably fall out. You could try re-attaching it with glue or just replacing it with a different rubber plate.

Is it possible to swap out controller cords?

My main controller crapped out on me a while ago, the Z button started dropping inputs.
I'm guessing this is because of the cord, which had been handled poorly by the previous owner (tight winding)
The copper wires are clearly visible through tears in the cord at the base of the controller, so I was wondering if I could swap it out for a different one (I have some controller lying around) and save my baby.

Sorry for not replying earlier. It is possible, but you need to desolder the 6 pins the cable’s breakout is attached to. I wouldn’t swap the cable but simply repair it with some heat-shrink tubes. (With the ones I have, I’d still need to desolder so I can guide one end of the cable into the tube, maybe there are some others that can be attached to the middle of the cable? Dunno, not an expert with these things.)

 

[Mc.Rad]

Hey has some one tested the lag on a LED TV????

 

[SonuvaBeach]

Kadano,

Apologies if you already have answered this question, checked the main thread and didn't see anything specifically related.

I'm a sheik main, so needle turnarounds and shield drops are both crucial to my game. I currently use a ~3 year old white controller that is perfect. It originally shield dropped only well to the left, but a few weeks ago I modded the notches thanks to your video and it now shield drops both ways well. It also has no recoil, so when I do RNS by tapping the opposite direction, it works! The problem? The controller is getting older and the stick is starting to lose how stiff it once was.

Most would say the solution is simply to get a new controller. I've tried multiple new ones and no matter what I try, they all have a degree of recoil that causes me to either A. Not turnaround during the RNS or B. lose momentum during it

Is my best option to try one of the methods listed (such as epoxy the stick box) to stiffen the stick back up? Or is there a way to use a new controller and get rid of the recoil that it has? I made it so my backup controller has perfect shield drops, but the recoil is still a major issue.

Thanks :D

 

[Kadano]

Kadano,

Apologies if you already have answered this question, checked the main thread and didn't see anything specifically related.

I'm a sheik main, so needle turnarounds and shield drops are both crucial to my game. I currently use a ~3 year old white controller that is perfect. It originally shield dropped only well to the left, but a few weeks ago I modded the notches thanks to your video and it now shield drops both ways well. It also has no recoil, so when I do RNS by tapping the opposite direction, it works! The problem? The controller is getting older and the stick is starting to lose how stiff it once was.

Most would say the solution is simply to get a new controller. I've tried multiple new ones and no matter what I try, they all have a degree of recoil that causes me to either A. Not turnaround during the RNS or B. lose momentum during it

Is my best option to try one of the methods listed (such as epoxy the stick box) to stiffen the stick back up? Or is there a way to use a new controller and get rid of the recoil that it has? I made it so my backup controller has perfect shield drops, but the recoil is still a major issue.

Thanks :D

It’s hard to say, really. The control stick stiffness you are missing, what kind of stiffness is this? It can be either the DZ, LZ or RZ (see section 2 and onward in my recent MIOM post). You need to specify what kind of stiffness you want to increase. RZ is determined solely by spring resistance force curve, DZ and LZ are (to my understanding) due to friction weardown on the moving plastic parts A, C, D, E and F.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Kadano,

I'm trying to make a perfect controller and the only thing left with it is to make it smash turn well. I have many controllers of various age/use and have tested their ability to smash turn extensively, and one stands out big time -- it's a type 3 stickbox that is fairly broken in. There is only a little bit of DZ/LZ on it, but the spring's resistance is very low. To test each controller I attempted 30 smash turn attempts and recorded how many were tilt turns. I did this multiple times for each controller and then calculated the average for each controller, and where all my other controllers averaged 10-18 tilt turns, this one averages only 4.6(!). I went back to test it more, just to be sure I wasn't getting lucky - several times in fact - and I can confidently say this stickbox is just godlike. I have yet to miss more than 6 out of 30 smash turn attempts, and I'm only resting my thumb on the control stick and flicking as opposed to accelerating my thumb before it touches the control stick like you talk about in your guide. The only problem is that this stickbox doesn't belong to me and I want one for myself.

So I took a type 3 stickbox out of a Wii Classic Controller and cut the spring down to give it less resistance and that worked great - the difference was immediately noticeable and this brand new stickbox now has just as little resistance as the broken in one. (Also, I made sure to cut off exactly one loop from each end of the spring so that both new ends face the same way as the original.) But it still doesn't smash turn as much as the old one, not even close, and I'm trying to figure out why. The only difference between the new and the old sticks now is that the new one has almost no DZ/LZ. The old one does have some DZ/LZ as you'd expect but nothing huge. I guess that must be the missing ingredient in the new stick though because I can't think of anything else it could be. I tested their horizontal input values in Magus' ISO just to make sure the new one wasn't extending further than it was supposed to or something which could possibly explain it, but they both end on the same exact values.

Do you think I should try to increase the new stickbox's DZ manually by sanding down the actual stick within the stickbox? I'm scared to try that because I don't know how much I would also be increasing the LZ. If you don't suggest doing something like that, can you think of anything else to try? If there is a solution, then by combining that solution with cutting down a stickbox's spring, we could be turning any new type 3 stickbox into an absolutely perfect stickbox without having to break it in, which would be pretty huge IMO.

Thanks!

 

[Kadano]

Kadano,

I'm trying to make a perfect controller and the only thing left with it is to make it smash turn well. I have many controllers of various age/use and have tested their ability to smash turn extensively, and one stands out big time -- it's a type 3 stickbox that is fairly broken in. There is only a little bit of DZ/LZ on it, but the spring's resistance is very low. To test each controller I attempted 30 smash turn attempts and recorded how many were tilt turns. I did this multiple times for each controller and then calculated the average for each controller, and where all my other controllers averaged 10-18 tilt turns, this one averages only 4.6(!). I went back to test it more, just to be sure I wasn't getting lucky - several times in fact - and I can confidently say this stickbox is just godlike. I have yet to miss more than 6 out of 30 smash turn attempts, and I'm only resting my thumb on the control stick and flicking as opposed to accelerating my thumb before it touches the control stick like you talk about in your guide. The only problem is that this stickbox doesn't belong to me and I want one for myself.

So I took a type 3 stickbox out of a Wii Classic Controller and cut the spring down to give it less resistance and that worked great - the difference was immediately noticeable and this brand new stickbox now has just as little resistance as the broken in one. (Also, I made sure to cut off exactly one loop from each end of the spring so that both new ends face the same way as the original.) But it still doesn't smash turn as much as the old one, not even close, and I'm trying to figure out why. The only difference between the new and the old sticks now is that the new one has almost no DZ/LZ. The old one does have some DZ/LZ as you'd expect but nothing huge. I guess that must be the missing ingredient in the new stick though because I can't think of anything else it could be. I tested their horizontal input values in Magus' ISO just to make sure the new one wasn't extending further than it was supposed to or something which could possibly explain it, but they both end on the same exact values.

Do you think I should try to increase the new stickbox's DZ manually by sanding down the actual stick within the stickbox? I'm scared to try that because I don't know how much I would also be increasing the LZ. If you don't suggest doing something like that, can you think of anything else to try? If there is a solution, then by combining that solution with cutting down a stickbox's spring, we could be turning any new type 3 stickbox into an absolutely perfect stickbox without having to break it in, which would be pretty huge IMO.

Thanks!

In my MIOM post, I mentioned that it seems like C-stickboxes usually have weaker, thinner, black springs. I was able to confirm this by opening several controllers.
Is the stickbox you are currently working on one with a black bottom part?

↑ Here I put the C-stickbox (black bottom) into the control stick slot. Here’s a comparison of the two different springs from type 3 black and type 3 white:

If you are using a type 3 white stickbox currently, I recommend exchanging it with a black one. If that black stickbox has less DZ/LZ than the white one (which could be bad because there seems to be some friction that increases resistance) you can also try exchanging the bottom parts only (part A, including B and C):

I don’t recommend sanding down part D as you suggested. It’s very difficult to sand it down equally on all sides, and you need to get the surface to be as smooth as it was in the beginning again, or else you’ll have friction from the rough surface. From my experience with sanding octagon gates, I think the chances to mess up are too high. If I was in your place, I’d only attempt it if you have a leftover type 3 black stickbox that you don’t have any other uses for.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Thanks! I think you are right about the black-bottomed type 3 boxes having thinner springs. I swapped one in (just part A(BC)) and it feels like the same light resistance of the perfect stickbox I mentioned as well as the one I cut down the spring in. Side note: the Wii Classic controller I used did not have a black-bottomed stickbox, I had to get it from the c-stick of another controller.

I still can't replicate the old controller's ability to smash turn and I'm really baffled as to what could still be different about it. I even tried swapping in a part D into my current controller from another older type 3 that was broken in with a fairly big DZ. So my current controller now has the same low resistance as well as more DZ than the perfect controller and it doesn't do the trick, while it also didn't with less DZ. There is something about this perfect control stick that allows it to smash turn effortlessly and I'm going crazy trying to figure out what it is.

 

[Kadano]

I had something similar happen to my main controller. It had a ~94% success rate for back dashes, and I wanted to find out what this was caused by. After I opened and inspected the stickbox, without exchanging any parts, the rate went down considerably. I re-arranged spring and part C about 6 times, but it never went back to its original rate.

In the end, I decided it must have been placebo and I was doing the accelerate thumb input without noticing. But now that you report basically the same, there might be more to this.

I’m trying to find springs that can be ordered online for cheap with compatible sizes to type 3, but less resistance and a better force curve, but so far I haven’t had any success and I don’t even know how to search for this properly. Does anyone here have any experience with that? I’d also like to either get data on type 3 black and white as well as type 2 physical stats (N/m, force diagram), does anyone know with which tools I could measure that? I figure they are too expensive to buy, so maybe some physics university facilities have these available for use?

 

[TheCatPhysician]

I decided against taking apart my good one since it doesn't belong to me but I've been considering it. Thanks for the heads up. And yeah, even after originally posting about it I had doubts because it really makes no sense. But I'm still going back to this controller all the time and it's always nearly perfect with smash turns, and none of my other controllers are anything like this.

Since I'm not relying on the spring that I already cut down, I decided to cut it down even further just to see what would happen. As you would imagine, the resistance of it in a stickbox is so low that the entire control stick almost feels like a deadzone. It still gives values just fine and the dash threshold is well within the controller's gate, but this still didn't significantly raise the smash turn success rate, so there's definitely more at play than sheer resistance.

My next suspicion is that it has something to do with where the smash turn threshold (an x value of 82xxx iirc, but to say you've already found this is an understatement given that you've mapped every single control stick value to a pixel lol) physically lies in the control stick. I've only recently realized for myself that typically, the maximum in-game values are actually not even close to the controller's gate -- they can be reached well before the control stick reaches the gate, so maybe the better control sticks have a tilt turn window shifted to an area such that a flick of the control stick doesn't stay in that zone for as long of a time. I'm not sure if that is possible though.

I don't know anything about Springs or where to find them, but good luck! I hope we can get this figured out soon.

 

[OninO]

I love the effort with which you guys are attacking this problem.

Have you studied the input values of your awesome controller in Dolphin or something like that? Would actually be good if you could an oscilloscope onto the potentiometer and compare the swing from centre to gate for great controller vs. average.

 

[Kadano]

My next suspicion is that it has something to do with where the smash turn threshold (an x value of 82xxx iirc, but to say you've already found this is an understatement given that you've mapped every single control stick value to a pixel lol) physically lies in the control stick. I've only recently realized for myself that typically, the maximum in-game values are actually not even close to the controller's gate -- they can be reached well before the control stick reaches the gate, so maybe the better control sticks have a tilt turn window shifted to an area such that a flick of the control stick doesn't stay in that zone for as long of a time. I'm not sure if that is possible though.

Yeah, basically these stick maps I made show quite well where maximum value is reached:

The 1px tall light purple “dash fast” stripe starts at about 80% horizontal extension from neutral to the right and indicates maximum input strength (pushing even faster won’t increase dash speed etc. at all). But, smash inputs necessary for the smash turn require much less extension; roughly 60% from neutral.

I think it’s possible that a spring which has near-peak resistance within the dead zone might be beneficial—once you got through the dead zone and into the tilt area, the built-up force will make you move through tilt turn and into smash turn very quickly. So having unproportionally high initial resistance could act like a substitute for thumb accelerate inputs.

Also, possibly not all potentiometers are created equally and some will reach smash turn range from less physical offset. I’m pretty sure that due to the potentiometer’s linear scaling, considerable variance between different units would cause drift in neutral, so I think this is somewhat unlikely. I do have a multimeter though, so I can start measuring all of my controllers’ pots in neutral pos and max extension and see whether there is significant variance.

I guess it’s also possible that the cause sits within your controller board circuitry that somehow skips tilt turn range quickly, but I think such behavior would impact other inputs like forward tilt and up-B angles, so I think we can count this possibility out.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

I think it’s possible that a spring which has near-peak resistance within the dead zone might be beneficial—once you got through the dead zone and into the tilt area, the built-up force will make you move through tilt turn and into smash turn very quickly. So having unproportionally high initial resistance could act like a substitute for thumb accelerate inputs.

This could be it. After looking at parts A B and C and D for a while I wonder if this could be achieved simply by using a spring with a much smaller circumference, or even a small squishy ball that is just the right size. That way, since the new part B is only filling the center of the space between parts A and C, the force curve might favor initial input with more resistance and vice versa.

OninO, I've been looking at the values in dolphin and on my console with Magus' input display melee ISO which works great. It would be sweet though if there was a program that could record control stick input values and report back exactly what values were read at every millisecond. That way, I could see how much time the awesome controller is spending in the tilt turn zone vs other controllers.

Speaking of that, Kadano, I just realized you were actually able to accomplish that in your MIOM article. How the heck did you do that?

 

[Kadano]

Not sure how you imagine the “squishy ball” would work. If it really has the shape of a ball, there wouldn’t be any push-back force that quickly defaults the sliding rails into neutral position. Or at least I can’t think of a way to accomplish this.

I guess the program we’d need for this is an executable that can read the USB controller input, log them and automatically recognize relevant input changes and directly translate them into user-friendly data. Just logging to a huge list that you have to skim through manually would be frustrating I think. And if we get the aforementioned basic stuff working, it should be easy to add stuff like angle grading (telling you how close you are to achieving perfect wavedash length or Firefox angles), moonwalk grading with direct feedback (“hold backwards at the end of the moonwalk for longer” for example).

So yeah I think building something like this is desirable. Unfortunately I’m not familiar with any programming languages—are you?

In the MIOM article, I just used a high-speed camera and filmed my thumb. Then I counted frame by frame how long the stick remained in the zone that I estimated to trigger tilt turn. Not truly accurate, but fine enough for comparing very different controllers and input methods.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

Oh, I just remembered the post at the center of part A so a ball wouldn't work any way. And yeah I was thinking of it all wrong. I feel like you're right about wanting resistance in the dead zone, but for some reason I interpreted that as meaning we'd want the resistance to decrease afterward. I'm pretty sure now that getting the resistance to decrease while input increases would defy physics, at least without something more complicated than a spring. Anyway, I'll do some testing on resistance within a deadzone next time I'm able. I didn't have much time today, but I did quickly confirm that the good controller gets a little bit of resistance near the limits of its dead zone.

Unfortunately I'm not a programmer, though I used to make simple programs and it's not too hard to get back into it with tutorials. I might look into taking on the task but I have no idea how long it would take and it's honestly probably not feasible for me.

 

[Kadano]

Oh ok. I’ll add this to my list of things I want to create once I finally manage to learn to code, then.

 

[TheCatPhysician]

After doing those experiments with cutting down a stickbox's spring, I've been wondering if less spring resistance really does contribute significantly to smash turn efficiency and now I have some more test results. I've just received a brand new white Japanese original controller from Amazon and I put it through the smash turn test I described earlier, then swapped the black-bottom stickbox (the entire apparatus sans potentiometers) into the main stickbox spot and tested that. This time, I ran 5 sets of 30 attempts for each setup. I tested "awesome" controller again just because (again, it's just a fairly broken in white controller that has never been opened or modded in any way). Here are the results:

"Awesome" controller:
1) 4 out of 30 were tilt turns
2) 0 out of 30 were tilt turns(!)
3) 2 out of 30 were tilt turns
4) 0 out of 30 were tilt turns(!)
5) 2 out of 30 were tilt turns
Average: 1.6 tilt turns out of 30

New white controller, un-modded:
1) 10 out of 30 were tilt turns
2) 18 out of 30 were tilt turns
3) 13 out of 30 were tilt turns
4) 13 out of 30 were tilt turns
5) 14 out of 30 were tilt turns
Average: 13.6 tilt turns out of 30

New white controller with black-bottom c-stick box:
1) 16 out of 30 were tilt turns
2) 13 out of 30 were tilt turns
3) 14 out of 30 were tilt turns
4) 12 out of 30 were tilt turns
5) 14 out of 30 were tilt turns
Average: 13.8 tilt turns out of 30

Every smash turn attempt for each of these was made with my thumb rested on the control stick prior to inputting dash, and I paused for some time between each attempt, letting my character stand in neutral, ensuring that I was never falling into a frame-perfect rhythm (even though I'm probably not capable of that.) For this test, I used Bowser since he has a long turn animation, and would attempt to dash backwards into an immediate dash attack. This way, tilt turns were made apparent by attempted dash attacks resulting in forward tilt attacks.

The only possible distortion of results would be from me unwittingly waiting too long between my dash input and pressing A, in which case I might do a tilt turn which eventually turns into a dash (after 10 frames), and then a dash attack and see it as a smash turn. All I can do is assure you that this was never the case as I'm confident in my ability to keep the inputs close enough together (especially considering Bowser's long turn animation).

So, swapping in the c-stick box had no significant effect. The question now is which stickbox I should use. Given that I know for certain it is possible for a white-bottom type 3 stickbox to become excellent (30 resting smash turns in a row - twice!), I'm thinking I will just go with that. Unless you have anything more to say in favor of black-bottom c-stick boxes, Kadano. Afterall, the "awesome" controller does have low spring resistance -- comparable to a c-stickbox -- it's just that this one's low resistance came naturally, from breaking it in. I feel like doing the same thing with my new controller is the safest bet, but hopefully I won't be missing out on the opportunity to break in the controller quicker by using the c-stickbox. It's a tough decision, knowing how much time is going to be invested into my choice.

 

[Kadano]

I also think that there is more to it than just low spring resistance. My good stickbox that I described in the MIOM post got much worse after opening it and putting it back together. I tried many different spring positions, but it never got as good as I remembered it to be before taking it apart the first time.

I have a hint that breaking in the stickbox takes less time with black-bottom stickboxes. But I only discovered the distinction about a month ago and haven’t played much in that time, so not enough time has passed for me to be able to say anything about that.
Until a few days ago, I had a white-bottom stickbox as a replacement to the good one I had before (I gave that one away), and I disliked its strong resistance both for back dashes and for reverse and tilt inputs. Putting in a new black-bottom stickbox improved these considerably, but I still miss quite many instant back dashes compared to the best condition the previous good stickbox ever was in.

Are there any (affordable) devices that can measure force resistance at given positions very accurately, which can be apart by <1 mm? I think measuring the force diagrams of different stickboxes would help isolating the deciding quality.

 

[Shagazar]

Kadano, do you know (or could you measure) the normal resistance of the stick potentiometers? My controller seems to be getting worse at dashes and dash dances, and I think the potentiometer might be busted. For example, my Y-axis pot gives around 16 kOhm from first to third prong, while my x-axis pot shows ~30 kOhm (all in neutral position). However I'm not sure if there is supposed to be a difference between X and Y resistance.

 

[Kadano]

Kadano, do you know (or could you measure) the normal resistance of the stick potentiometers? My controller seems to be getting worse at dashes and dash dances, and I think the potentiometer might be busted. For example, my Y-axis pot gives around 16 kOhm from first to third prong, while my x-axis pot shows ~30 kOhm (all in neutral position). However I'm not sure if there is supposed to be a difference between X and Y resistance.

Did you measure the potentiometer’s resistance while soldered in (but not powered from consoler) or while disattached from the PCB?

I measured an old controller’s C-stick stickboxes (small PCB not attached to the large one) while still soldered on and while taken out for you. While they were still on, they had 14.93 and 14.92 kΩ between pins 1 and 3, respectively. Desoldered 28.5 and 31.1.

As far as I know, the proper way to measure actual value output is by measuring between pins 1 and 2 while the potentiometer is soldered on. For neutral position, I had 14.03 for the horizontal one and 14.35 for the vertical one. Full left: 1.48 on H, 0.93 on V. Full right: 15.7 on H, 15.89 on V.

I hope this data helps, if you need more, just ask.

 

[Kadano]

All images in the OP have been re-uploaded to imgur (they were on imageshack previously). @Pauer

 

[Dr.Krieger]

@ 9bit @ SpiderMad I’ve got your mod to work, but in a slightly different way. I, again, used pieces of a plastic bottle, which I folded to a rod and pushed inside the trigger tube.

I also measured the possible length range for the rod:

I think that 20 mm length is optimal. This still retains a little bit of the analog input range, so you can L-cancel and lightshield with soft press, but immediately after that you get digital press (for powershield and teching).

I should note that you need to fold the plastic quite often so it becomes stable enough and doesn’t bend when pressing down hard. The one in the image above resists even when I press with maximum strength (much stronger than I ever do while playing), so I think using plastic bottles as base material is good enough.
If you have some wooden rods of the right diameter (~4mm) around, you can use that too to put it into the hole. Or a small screw that’s just thick enough for screwing into the tube. But I like using the plastic, I can quickly shorten its length with a scissor if it turns out too long.

I think I've found a better way of doing this mod. If you break one of the prongs off of a plastic fork you can use that as the rod and it's much easier to make.

 

[Kadano]

I think I've found a better way of doing this mod. If you break one of the prongs off of a plastic fork you can use that as the rod and it's much easier to make.

Yeah, I’ve also found a better method by now. I take small discs from dried tree branches now (bark removed, of course).

 

[SpiderMad]

I think I've found a better way of doing this mod. If you break one of the prongs off of a plastic fork you can use that as the rod and it's much easier to make.

Yeah, I’ve also found a better method by now. I take small discs from dried tree branches now (bark removed, of course).

Mine still has your rolled plastic method. What makes these superior? Is it more consistent to feel when you're able to make it click because of the greater circumference?

 

[Kadano]

Yeah, and also wood is sturdier and less prone to deformation than rolled up thin plastic.

 

[Dr.Krieger]

And it takes way less time to make if you haven't already done the mod.