tech questions + frame data statistics

[phanna]

Hello, I've started to play Jigglypuff more seriously, so I'd like to start out with some questions I have:

• What frame(s) does down-B hit on? In action replay, I don't even see a hitbox O.o -- but I believe it starts on the first frame, but how long does the hitbox last? And does anyone know specifically how long a hitbox gets extended when it hits something? I would assume it's the hitlag time, but I don't know what that is for rest.
  
  
• What causes someone to flip while performing a dair on them, and thus makes them vulnerable to a dair-rest combo?
  
  
• I understand the usefulness of nair-resting (especially a reverse-nair) from King's guide, but how useful are low-% fair rests?

I had more questions that I searched this forum for (frame data or other statistical information on Jigglypuff), but not finding what I was looking for (though Jigglypuff 101 helped), I investigated myself with AR and put this together, for at least my own reference. I'm certain a few other people are familiar with this information, but since it was something that I wanted to know, hopefully it helps or informs other people as well:

• nair lasts 49 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 6 thru 28 (23 frame hitbox duration)
  
  
• fair lasts 39 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 7 thru 22 (16 frame hitbox duration)
  
  
• bair lasts 39 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 9 thru 12 (4 frame hitbox duration) - IASA frame 31
  
  
• dair lasts 49 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 5 thru 27 (every 3rd frame has no attack hitbox however, but the hitboxes span a 23 frame period)
  
  
• uair lasts 37 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 9 thru 12 (4 frame hitbox duration)
  
  
• dsmash lasts 54 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 9 thru 10 (2 frame duration, during which her feet are invulnerable)
  
  
• fsmash lasts 44 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 12 thru 20 (9 frame duration)
  
  
• usmash lasts 54 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 7 thru 10 (4 frame duration)
  
  
• down-B lasts 249 frames, with invulnerability during frames 1 thru 26
  
  
• neutral-B - to get the strong rollout, you need to hold B for at least 34 frames (2 frames before the 2nd "squeak" from spinning)
  
  
• up-B lasts 179 frames, 'hits' during frames 28-35 (7 duration), 69-76 (7 duration), and 113-125 (13 duration) - hitbox gets larger each time
  
  
• forward B-lasts 45 frames, with the attack hitbox on frames 12 thru 27 (16 frame duration) - and to perform the rising pound, don't try side-B'ing at a high angle, since that doesn't help you and can only lead to unwanted lullabies. Instead, hold up or down as soon as you start the move to drift in that direction.
  
  
• You only turn around from a midair if you are holding the opposite direction on the first frame of the jump (the same frame you input X or Y). You can avoid turning around if you perform an aerial within 4 frames of jumping.
  
  
• Jigglypuff's dash lasts 23 frames.

 

[doyoung2win]

good post, i like phanna being in the jigglypuff forums. yay samii puff

"What frame(s) does down-B hit on? In action replay, I don't even see a hitbox O.o -- but I believe it starts on the first frame, but how long does the hitbox last? And does anyone know specifically how long a hitbox gets extended when it hits something? I would assume it's the hitlag time, but I don't know what that is for rest."

It hits on frame 1 and only lasts one frame, the hitbox is in the center of his body and petre will probably post the picture in here (its in multiple other threads). "It's about the size of his eye."

"What causes someone to flip while performing a dair on them, and thus makes them vulnerable to a dair-rest combo?"

The percent and height / type of character causes them to flip making dair rest combos possible. Tall people that have crazy animations when being hit like marth or GaWs.

"I understand the usefulness of nair-resting (especially a reverse-nair) from King's guide, but how useful are low-% fair rests?"

Fair rest is good but not as useful because of the nair's weird knockback which pops the character very slightly to land just on top of you without touching the floor as you are auto cancelling the nair. It's still good nonetheless but I wouldn't risk it as much.

 

[The King]

Some awesome frame data, now all conveniently located in one place. This will help quite a bit, lol. =)

I haven't really got anything to add but a question and an observation. I'm dying to know exactly how long the rest hitbox lasts after making contact, because I've noticed some extremely strange rest interactions here and there, with most of them stemming from either playing in teams or playing against IC's. I've had incidents where I would rest someone, and shortly thereafter someone would jump into jigglypuff's model and get rested as well from the same rest. Also after resting Popo with nana relatively far away (and outside jigglypuff's rest hitbox) nana would still get hit by the rest. I've just noticed really strange properties with how long the rest hitbox lasts after making contact, and how wide the hitbox is able to extend. This could be an anomoly, or it could not, I've really no idea.

Magus?

P.S.- A lot of these incidents I think I have on tape somewhere, so if there isn't a statistical answer for any of this, a video might help. I'll start digging around in a bit.

King Out

 

[Dark Sonic]

That could be something to do with the hitstun of the rest (which has also been a mystery.)
Maybe the hitstun is long enough to allow another character to move into the rest hitbox while the first character is still being hit. A move that strong will likely have a very long hit stun and I think it's a reasonable explination as to what's going on. Any takes?

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Bit of useless info to add: There is a tiny hitbox at Jiggly's center during her sing for whatever reason. Duration I don't know because it's difficult to make out.

Regarding the rest hitbox: As far as I know, the rest hitbox stays out as long as there is hitlag, which in my estimation exceeds 10 frames. You can see it more visibly by resting someone's shield. Although, I cannot prove that hitlag on shields and on characters is exactly the same. Jiggly is also invincible for a while from the beginning of rest, which facilitates things like Nana walking into her.

 

[doyoung2win]

wheres james? try resting while getting warlock punched, your invincible while the punch hits you and then a second after its finished ganon gets rested.

 

[Magus420]

The hitlag is 12 when it's fresh, so it gets extended by 11 when it connects. The hitlag is probably reduced to 10-11 on the 2nd/3rd time hitting with it in the last 9 moves for that stock and goes down from there. Since you're invincible with the rest hitbox still just chilling there for a bit anyone trying to come at you with an attack to hit you/save their teammate from getting rested will often pass into the rest hitbox too and be hit. It then continues to stay out during the hitlag on them as well allowing for a 3rd to move into range and be hit on very rare occasions.

wheres james? try resting while getting warlock punched, your invincible while the punch hits you and then a second after its finished ganon gets rested.

Not sure what you mean. If you rest just the hitbox of the punch there's no hitlag to extend it afaik, and if you rest him... well he's rested already so it wouldn't be resting him later. Do you have a video of it happening or something so I have a better idea?

Bit of useless info to add: There is a tiny hitbox at Jiggly's center during her sing for whatever reason. Duration I don't know because it's difficult to make out.

Yeah, there's a VERY tiny circular hitbox (like even less than half the diameter or rest's hitbox) that is there between the main 3 attack boxes. It mostly just prevents people from being able to run through between the hits.

 

[phanna]

I see the rest hitbox now, I missed it because it was mostly purple from the invulnerability. I figured it got extended by the hitlag amount, glad to know that's 11 additional frames.

And I saw the teeny hitbox inside Jiggly during her sing, good point, I forgot to mention it.

Another note: Jigglypuff has 5 midairs, of course, but you have to wait at least 27 frames after each midair to midair again.

Edit: I also figured out the rollout frame charges:

• The first 15 frames are warmup, and don't involve any charging at all. You can only hit someone with an uncharged rollout if they are touching you. If you release during frames 1 thru 34, you can hit them for 10% damage.
  
  
• Frames 16 thru 34 are charging your 12% hit. If you release during frames 35 thru 38, you will deal 12% damage.
  
  
• Frames 35 thru 38 are charging your 13% hit. If you release during frames 39 thru 41, you will deal 13% damage.
  
  
• Frames 39 thru 41 are charging your 14% hit. If you release during frames 42 thru 45, you will deal 14% damage.
  
  
• Frames 42 thru 45 are charging your 15% hit. If you release during frames 46 thru 48, you will deal 15% damage.
  
  
• Frames 46 thru 48 are charging your 16% hit. If you release during frames 49 thru 52, you will deal 16% damage.
  
  
• Frames 49 thru 52 are charging your 17% hit. If you release during frames 53 thru 56, you will deal 17% damage.
  
  
• Frames 53 thru 56 are charging your 18% hit. If you release any time on or after frame 57, you will deal the maximum of 18% damage
  
  
• Frames 57+ are no longer charging, she is just spinning waiting to release an already fully-charged rollout

Keep in mind that 60 frames = 1 second, and that starting on frame 18, Jigglypuff "squeaks" during her rollout charge after 1, 20, 13, and then 10 frames. After that she follows a pattern of squeaking every 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9, 10, 9 frames. So during the actual charging frames, she squeaks during frames 18, 19, 39, and 52; 5 frames after the last of which, you will be fully charged. The total time for this is 57/60 of a second (0.95 seconds from start to fully charged).

That was kind of a pain since AR stops counting frames during jiggly's rollout charge, but I had to do it to finish up her frames of hitlag (and shield stun) calculations.