Tech//Autocancel Option Select

[The Mofo]

There's something I've been doing for a very long time, and you can lynch me if this has been talked about in the past, but I thought I'd share it. First though, a prerequisite, that will be review for many people.

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Autocancel instead of Tech

The situation: You got hit, you're out of hitstun, and now you're tumbling.

The technique: Instead of teching, use an aerial move that has autocancel frames, and land on the ground during those frames.

The result: Avoid laggy techs, avoid having to 'wiggle' out of a tumble, or avoid having to use your double-jump.
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While I said this was review, I've seen many high level players not utilizing this enough or at all. It helps to use a move with a lot of autocancel frames. With Ness I usually use his dair, which has 20 frames. You can also use zero or low-landing-lag B moves like Fox/Falco's laser. Now, on to the option select.

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Tech//Autocancel Option Select

The situation: You just got hit by an attack, and you're in stun. You're about to hit the ground, and you're also about to be out of stun. You're not sure which is going to happen first.

The technique: Instead of just going for the tech OR just going for the autocancel, input both commands. This is the order of commands, starting at a maximum of 20 frames before predicted floor impact:
1. Press L (optionally hold or let go)
2. Hold direction for roll tech, if tech occurs (optional)
3. Time your aerial of choice with the c-stick just before you impact the ground (optionally hold)
4a. If you were stunned the whole time before you hit the ground, you will tech in place or in the direction you held.
4b. If you were able to initiate the aerial before you hit the ground, you will autocancel.
4bi. If you autocancel and you did not hold L, you will land normally in a stand.
4bii. If you autocancel and you held L, you will land in a shield.
4biii. If you autocancel, you held L, and you held the c-stick direction, you will buffer a roll/sidestep/jump.

The result: Instead of risking a missed tech for the chance to autocancel with no tech lag, this makes going for the autocanceled landing almost risk-free. Many opponents will expect you to tech, so this may allow you to prioritize in the small window while they reorient.
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I've found the way I use this most often is getting off an autocancel during a combo/techchase and punishing them with either a quick move or grab. If they're expecting a missed tech and you autocancel shield, this could be a free oos punish. It's also not a bad idea to just take the opportunity to retreat and re-establish your neutral game.

I want to make clear that I'm not just theory-craft-bull****ting. This is a staple in my game, and I would be worse without it.

Discuss / contribute / tell me that everybody knows about this already and that I should die in a fire

 

[Acryte]

Pretty cool, never tried it and haven't noticed people doing it at all really.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

How often do you really use this?
It looks really cool if it actually comes in handy a lot, but I'm not sure how often it would be useful.

 

[TheLake]

Videoooos

i like it

but viiiiiiideooooooooooos!!!

 

[Dan Salvato]

I'm definitely going to try this, especially when I have an aerial with a 12-frame autocancel window, haha.

It also sounds like a good mindgame if your opponent is expecting you to tech and you just land with virtually no lag.

 

[The Mofo]

For 'autocancel instead of teching' I use this many times per match. For the option select, which is pretty much a specialized case of the former, I probably use it 1-3 times on average per match, with the auto-cancel option coming through about 0-2 times per match. Since it's an option select, when the tech option happens it doesn't look like anything strange is going on. The frequency also depends on how much I'm getting hit, obviously.

Some MUs you find yourself in more situations where this is useful, while other MUs it's less common. Some characters' throws make you have to tech until a certain percentage (Shiek, Falcon), after which you can start to jump out. Instead of jumping, you can do this option select.

You can actually replace autocanceling with jumping in the option select, and that would work as well. Jump OR Tech.

I'll probably be making a demonstration/example video of this, however I went through my set with Knut from Zenith and found a few examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz_wMI2NXcs

1:20 -- Get hit by nair, I successfully autocancel. Then right after that, I get dash-attacked, and I attempt to autocancel but the tech comes through instead.
9:10 -- Get hit by nair, attempt to autocancel but tech comes through.
10:40 -- Get hit by dash attack, successfully autocancel.
10:55 -- Get hit by f-tilt, fairly sure that I wouldn't be able to autocancel but I try anyway.

You can see me autocanceling instead of teching in tumbling situations throughout the whole set.

 

[TheLake]

Wow this is really really cool.

We should come up with a list of moves that autocancel (Sheiks fair and icy's Bair are the two that come to mind)

Nice find mofo!

 

[Mahie]

Note that you can also laser with the spacies, for instance. It's not new, but not that widespread either.

 

[clowsui]

It should be noted that this OS is defeated by strong multi-coverage options such as Sheik ftilt, Peach Dsmash or a properly timed Fox nair plane. By defeated I mean the opponent will trade at best and beat your OS at worst

 

[The Mofo]

Note that you can also laser with the spacies, for instance. It's not new, but not that widespread either.

I mentioned this in the OP. While the laser has a much bigger auto-cancel range (the entirety of the move) and should be used in most tumbling situations, keep in mind that if you use this with the option-select you will be limited to teching in place, given that the autocancel did not go through.

We should come up with a list of moves that autocancel (Sheiks fair and icy's Bair are the two that come to mind)

Most aerials have some startup autocancel. All you have to do is check the Character sub-forums for the 'Frame Data' thread that should be stickied. For Sheik, like spacies, you can also use needles to autocancel, with the same limitation stated above.

It should be noted that this OS is defeated by strong multi-coverage options such as Sheik ftilt, Peach Dsmash or a properly timed Fox nair plane. By defeated I mean the opponent will trade at best and beat your OS at worst

There is no trade necessary. if you autocancel into shield, you would block most of those multi-coverage options (besides Peach's downsmash for most characters), which like I said in the OP, could give you a free oos punish. If your opponent grabs, then this means that they must have predicted the autocancel, since in every other scenario a grab would not be possible (missed tech, tech startup frames). It could also mean that they were trying to grab you before you hit the ground, but the grab came out too late.

This isn't meant to be filed under the 'automatic advantageous position' category of option-selects. This simply allows you to attempt to gain the advantages of autocanceling instead of teching, without risking a missed tech. You still need to make decisions intelligently. There may be certain situations where you would not want the autocancel, so you take the tech without attempting this option-select.

Admittedly theory-crafting: With Fox, instead of autocanceling, you replace that option with shine. Since you're low to the ground when the shine comes out, I wonder if this allows you to land with it and then jump or wavedash out? I'll have to do some testing.

 

[Kaeon]

This is actually pretty interesting to me. A lot of high-level play uses little tricks like these that I'm not aware of. This is a really interesting mix-up which makes absolute sense, but it never crossed my mind. I wish more stuff like this was easily accessible to players, and less of it was lost in rando threads from years back so I could learn these intricacies. It's all the little **** that makes the metagame as interesting as it is, after all. (SilentWolf's ledgecancel OP)

Nice post, even if it's "old" or not, at least this post is well-explained and out for players to see.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Great to hear any talk about option selects on smashboards. Not enough people do things like this. Thanks for writing this Mofo

 

[swanized]

What's the difference between using a move that autocancels and using a regular aerial and instantly L-cancelling it?

 

[Bad Cupboard]

An autocancelled move has 0 lag, an L-cancelled move will have half lag

 

[The Mofo]

Most aerials have frames at the beginning and end that you can 'autocancel'. When you land with these frames, you land with normal landing lag (3 frames). This bypasses the landing animation entirely. When you land during frames you have to L-cancel, you land with a landing animation that varies in length from move to move. If you don't L-cancel, this landing lag lasts its full duration. If you L-cancel, the lag is cut in half.​

​

You can check out your character's frame data for more details on this.​

 

[hectohertz]

most aerials have autocancel frames, which occur usually at the startup (before the hitbox appears) and the cooldown (after the hitbox disappears, before you hit the ground and go into the move specific landing animation). if you land during the autocancel window, you will not go into a move specific landing animation, you will go into your characters generic landing animation (as if you just jumped and landed without doing a move), which is 4 frames on (all? at least most) characters. For comparision, the fastest l-cancelled moves are 7 frames (fox's nair, someone correct me if there's a faster l-cancel).

however, you can do a stupid kind of option select (useful for newer players with charactesr with lots of autocancels like sheik), where your unsure if you hit the autocancel window, so you press l (or whatever your prefered l-cancel button is) right before you hit the ground as if the move was going to need to be l-cancelled. if the move autocancels, you'll get the autocancel (just make sure to let go of l in time or you'll land in your shield), and if you missed the AC window, then you'll just l-cancel like normal


btw julien, I AM SO PROUD OF YOU. OPTION SELECTS IN MY MELEE



ITS MORE COMMON THAN YOU MIGHT THINK


edit: ****, julien just said what i said in less words and better..

 

[thespymachine]

Watching some Melee. Just saw mango do this option select.

http://youtu.be/KHyB9sN7ZgM?t=4m54s

Or @ 4:54

 

[Silent Wolf]

you can just flick the stick once to air recover, which is easier for most characters im pretty sure

 

[SpiderMad]

I'm having trouble understanding the timing for the tech roll part: a Tutorial Video would be amazing.

For people unfamiliar with Autocancel I to the best of my ability made a Guide thing here for DK

Also idk what u mean SW

 

[stickmantankguy]

I've never thought of it this way. using both techniques just to, in a sense, ensure that you don't get absolutely destroyed when tumbling back towards the ground. To think watching you play was what got me into competitive melee in the first place, it's now also going to help me enhance my play style from silly mind games to top level play.

Basically, Mofo is the best.
The Ness meta game was the only one I was interested in for the longest time because of watching Mofo kick ass. (samus is aight, ness still wins though)

 

[Silent Wolf]

I'm having trouble understanding the timing for the tech roll part: a Tutorial Video would be amazing.

For people unfamiliar with Autocancel I to the best of my ability made a Guide thing here for DK

Also idk what u mean SW

I mean, using an auto cancel with an aerial is prob harder than just flicking the stick once for some chars. Like fox for example, he doesn't have any aerials easier than air recovering. He has lasers, but I was just using that example to assume other char prob have it easier with air recovering rather than timing an aerial. This is all assuming that you know when you're able to air recover rather than having to tech, which imo is pretty easy.

 

[Double Helix]

I mean, using an auto cancel with an aerial is prob harder than just flicking the stick once for some chars. Like fox for example, he doesn't have any aerials easier than air recovering. He has lasers, but I was just using that example to assume other char prob have it easier with air recovering rather than timing an aerial. This is all assuming that you know when you're able to air recover rather than having to tech, which imo is pretty easy.

That's because you are Silent Wolf. Plus I think this is a better option for moves that don't send you very high. As Mofo said, Ness's dair (along with Ganon's, Sheik's, and Falcon's) has a lot of startup, so a large window for auto-cancelling is available. I haven't tried it yet, but I am assuming if you can air-dodge (if this is what you mean) it would do that rather than buffering the tech. It probably helps that you also play fox who, if I remember right, has the fastest double jump. Fox really does have the most options in the game. Seriously, does he have a bad move? Anyways, adding this to a bag of tricks can only help you rather than hurt (as long as you can recognize when the better options are available).

I also thought another nifty trick for this (very situational) would be if you could ledge-cancel the auto-cancelled aerial but still buffer the tech if you aren't sure it will come out?

 

[Silent Wolf]

When I say "air recover" I just mean flicking the stick to exit the falling animation, not air dodging.

 

[Double Helix]

My bad man. In any case, how do you know when you can do that? Or do you just have to play the game? XD

Besides...I feel like Fox is too good of a character to really utilize this a lot. He has like...zero bad moves (as I stated earlier).

 

[soap]

ya I can tell more or less when I will be able to shake out or have to tech. I think I instinctively do try both at times when I'm not sure.

I do sheik needles quite a bit out of stun. just hold the charge to the ground and use the ground needles as pressure if you have a little space.

 

[voorhese]

This is super super kool. Thanks a lot for the read

 

[SUNG666]

Nice info, I think wiggling into airdodge will be the future though (since you'll be altering your falling trajectory the moment you use it)

There are lots of option selects. For example if I was falco edgeguarding a marth. I'm on stage facing away from the ledge and I sh backwards to grab it as marth does his up b sweetspot. Sometimes it could be vague as to who would grab the ledge so as falco I would press jump in the moment where I think I would grab the ledge. So if I grab it then nothing happens (you can't do anything for like the first 7 frames after grabbing the ledge) but if marth happens to grab it I'll be double jumping instead of falling down.

 

[dkuo]

ive been doing this since i started playing melee but only realized what i was doing after a few years <_< good to see a post about this though
i keep using nair instead of laser because i started with pika who doesn't have any ac attacks...bad habit of mine ~_~

maybe i should try using waveland instead, that way i dont have to press any other buttons and it works with everyone

 

[michael_li]

lol so basically ......dont tech and tumble when you dont have too?? LOL

 

[The Mofo]

Watching some Melee. Just saw mango do this option select.

It looks like he tried to do it, but didn't do it perfectly because he landed during frames he needed to L-cancel, and then even missed the L-cancel. He probably should have used laser in this situation.

you can just flick the stick once to air recover, which is easier for most characters im pretty sure

In my experience, after getting hit by an attack that puts you into the tumbling state, air recovering (or wiggling) takes more than just one flick. (Hence the name, it's not called 'wiggling' for nothing.) However, I have found that there are certain situations when you can just flick once to air recover. For example, If you fall off a platform backwards with your shield up, you fall into the tumbling state. From here, a flick will put you back into the normal falling state. I hypothesize that the amount you need to wiggle has something to do with the knockback of the move that put you in the tumbling state, however testing is needed.

Plus, even if you could recover in one flick, you then could use this in the option select instead of the aerial.

maybe i should try using waveland instead, that way i dont have to press any other buttons and it works with everyone

Nice info, I think wiggling into airdodge will be the future though (since you'll be altering your falling trajectory the moment you use it)

If you have sufficient time to wiggle, then you don't really need the option select anyway.

This is all assuming that you know when you're able to air recover rather than having to tech, which imo is pretty easy.

What if you only have a 1 frame window between your stunned frames and your ground-impact frames? Even if you could somehow recognize this, you'd also need to have frame perfect timing on your aerial (or flick). Not only is this option select good for covering your ass when you're not sure if you're able to tech or autocancel, it also saves your ass when you know you can autocancel but you miss the timing.

 

[Zoler]

Note that you can also laser with the spacies, for instance. It's not new, but not that widespread either.

I've been doing this for a long time, and now when you mentioned it I realize that maybe not every spacie is doing it?

It's super good DO IT