Tear apart my Sonic

[Marbo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9AOsLELYJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKaabkHJ4OA


1st game much better than the second. What can I improve on?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Got bored pretty quick. I think you're slow, overuse Dsmash and roll too much.

 

[Umby]

I'll make this up as I go along with the videos.

First issue is to try to stop rolling to get away. Following that up with a smash becomes very predictable and therefore punishable. Work on either dashing away after dropping your shield, or applying pressure with short hopped aerials out of your shield.

Try not to wait on the ground to shield grab Jigglypuff. It only flew in these matches as your playing partner was subpar, but many Jigglypuffs know how to keep their distance in the air. Mostly, you'll want to try uair out of shield, but it depends on the situation.

You don't have to shield the full extent of Rollout. If you see your shield diminishing, feel free to jump. Spring if you have to.

The main issues you want to work on is your defense and spacing. Use your dash to run away from attacks as well as to bait attacks from your opponent. Then proceed to punish them. Once again, rolling constantly is predictable and highly punishable. After that, learn your options out of your shield, including short hopped aerials and tilts.

As for your offense, you'll have to be accustomed to being on the move at ALL TIMES. The more you move, the more the opponent will try to keep up with you, and the easier it is to bait attacks. Spin Charge -> Fair/Nair -> Spring -> auto-canceled Dair is something basic to keep in mind. Even if you don't get a hit in, you're generally safe in your ending position and can either follow up (dash attack, ftilt, fsmash) or reset your defensive position.

And before thecatinthehat says it, Spinshot more.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Got bored pretty quick. I think you're slow, overuse Dsmash and roll too much.

Was gonna watch the whole thing but after 25 seconds I decided this pretty much covers it.

 

[Kinzer]

You suck.

Okay constructive criticism now, since I think you actually want advice on how to improve instead of just being really torn apart lol.

You spam DSmash.

You Spring a Jigglypuff... there are better ways to rack up damage on a character who will almost never get gimped via that method.

I can't count how many things went wrong at the end of the ordeal at 1:29, like seriously not even the Jiggly could get a Rest on an unconscious opponent. I don't think it's that hard to land.

You're not taunting with side taunt.

1:45, and you had no way to jump, release the Spnidash earlier, or even Spring?

Why are you rolling so much? Sonic gets around better and faster with just his run. Break that habit and try to stop using Springs so much. Don't confuse it with intelligent use though.

3:51 jiggly moves forward with FSmash, you could've been charging yours while she had nothing else to do but take the good hit. Certainly would've gotten more damage than simple an U-Throw.

Please let me know when you or your opponent get better (or both), I look forward to seeing either. No offense but no Jiggly who is worth fighting ever uses Sing.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

Was gonna watch the whole thing but after 25 seconds I decided this pretty much covers it.

Psh. I at least made it to 38 seconds. Get ***** Twinky. Did you at least see him get ***** by Rollout? Go back and watch if you didn't.

 

[Marbo]

You suck.

Okay constructive criticism now, since I think you actually want advice on how to improve instead of just being really torn apart lol.

You spam DSmash.

You Spring a Jigglypuff... there are better ways to rack up damage on a character who will almost never get gimped via that method.

I can't count how many things went wrong at the end of the ordeal at 1:29, like seriously not even the Jiggly could get a Rest on an unconscious opponent. I don't think it's that hard to land.

You're not taunting with side taunt.

1:45, and you had no way to jump, release the Spnidash earlier, or even Spring?

Why are you rolling so much? Sonic gets around better and faster with just his run. Break that habit and try to stop using Springs so much. Don't confuse it with intelligent use though.

3:51 jiggly moves forward with FSmash, you could've been charging yours while she had nothing else to do but take the good hit. Certainly would've gotten more damage than simple an U-Throw.

Please let me know when you or your opponent get better (or both), I look forward to seeing either. No offense but no Jiggly who is worth fighting ever uses Sing.

I really know I need to kill the roll habit. I wish single button mode was in. Also, my friend's more of a peach player, to be honest.

 

[thecatinthehat]

oh snap, twinkle twinkle little star in the building. let's get it.

oh yeah... uhhh... spinshot moar marbo.

 

[darkNES386]

It was already said, but rolling that much with Sonic is silly.

Bigger Problem: You are too direct. Every attack is an actual attack. Big deal if it worked against this Jigglypuff player, but smarter opponents you will find it very difficult to land attacks with your current strategy. Think more about where/what your opponent will be doing by the time you've reach them.

Nice uair kill in the first match. Sonic can have a good recovery, but trying to attack someone while recoverying is more than likely a bad idea. In this case, Jigglypuff easily KO'ed you.

Was this wifi?

And before thecatinthehat says it, Spinshot more.

oh snap, twinkle twinkle little star in the building. let's get it.

oh yeah... uhhh... spinshot moar marbo.

Lol, did CITH see this?

 

[Marbo]

So biggest thing right now would be to kill the rolling habit and incorporating spinshot into my game? What are some examples of when spinshot can be used?

 

[Kinzer]

When you fight a good LOLimar, you will see that Spinshot is one of if not your only way of approaching/punishing.

 

[GwJ]

I don't know TOO much about Sonic (as I'm sure a certain someone can vouch for me), but I did notice some general things.

You roll too much. Rolling is an unhealthy habit if used in excess, which you do.
Like Terios said, I got bored pretty quick. You used slow moves like Dsmash and had a rather unvaried gamestyle. Try and mix it up some. Try J-Hopping once in a while too.

Also, big tip against Jiggs. Don't shield rollout, spotdodge. Someone correct me, but I'm pretty sure Sonic can spotdodge each hit (max of 3 I think, maybe 4?). It's not worth a shieldbreak like what happened to you. That Jiggs was stupid and tried to do a ground rest, that should've been an easy kill for her.

You also don't seem to fully understand Sonic's moves yet and how they're applied. For instance at 3:25 of the first match, you dash attacked when Jiggs feigned a rolling. You had better options, such as a grab which would lead to a "combo" because Jiggs was at 0%.

Also, work on general spacing.

 

[thecatinthehat]

ROFL, no I didnt see it. ^_^;;;

 

[Camalange]

Try J-Hopping once in a while too.

You really are a scrub.

...

Or a troll.

 

[GwJ]

Or perhaps the creator of the best AT ever?

 

[Camalange]

Or perhaps the creator of the best AT ever?

Or perhaps trying to mislead a player interested in using Sonic.

You yourself admitted to not knowing much about Sonic, so why try and critique others when you yourself have to aquire more knowledge on said character?

Not only that, you suggest that he uses an AT that is only applicable to ROB, which relates nothing to the character he's trying to learn. It only makes it more confusing for a beginner.

Sorry Marbo, didn't mean to sully your thread like this :/
Hope everyone elses advice has helps your Sonic become better.

 

[GwJ]

My comments were completely valid, and anybody can J-Hop too, ROB's is just more noticable. I'm pretty sure it's the same length too. ROB's seems higher because his Dair floats.

 

[Camalange]

My comments were completely valid, and anybody can J-Hop too, ROB's is just more noticable. I'm pretty sure it's the same length too. ROB's seems higher because his Dair floats.

Sonic's Dair causes Sonic to stop mid-air and go straight down. The only time this isn't the case is when Sonic is sent flying in hitstun, in which Dair cancels absolutley no momentum and creates what we call a "Stalling Dair".

I've never seen a Sonic J-hop, nor do I believe it exists. I find it very unprobable due to the properties of Sonic's Dair, However, if you can explain how it's performed and maybe have video backup (you do have a capture card) then I will take back what I said.

 

[Marbo]

What's a j-hop now?

 

[Camalange]

What's a j-hop now?

You can cancel ROB's double jump with a Dair which gives him an extra boost to his jump.

It doesn't work for Sonic, so don't worry about it >_>

 

[Marbo]

How could that possibly work with Sonic in any known universe? Well I surely don't have to worry about it.

 

[Espy Rose]

There's already a video thread. Next time please post your videos in there, and you will get the criticism you need.

 

[Kinzer]

It really doesn't, as Camalange said don't concern yourself with it.

 

[GwJ]

It doesn't add any extra boost. It just looks like it. And like I said, anyone can do it. It's more of a mindgame, which this guy obviously is lacking in.

 

[Kinzer]

^^

What is that I don't even.

L2Sawnik.

That Spindash. Dat ain't Steak! Happy Ball, Samba Amigo! Woah, woah! Where's you at!?

 

[GwJ]

I'm surprised I'm even explaining this. Cam should've realized that was a joke in the first place.

 

[Camalange]

I'm surprised I'm even explaining this. Cam should've realized that was a joke in the first place.

I did.

I just wanted to be a ****.

 

[Lawz.]

oh great now Allentown is looking like a bunch of scrubs >_>

 

[Camalange]

oh great now Allentown is looking like a bunch of scrubs >_>

Just GwJ.

He does it to himself, so I have to hold his hand and help him around the forum.

 

[Lawz.]

Just GwJ.

He does it to himself, so I have to hold his hand and help him around the forum.

I don't even want to know how bad it'll be for him at Apex . well at least he can finally go to another tourney

/spam

 

[Sagen du Smash]

Don't dair without Spring. Just don't unless your offstage. The lag just begs for you to be punished. I honestly think Dair without Spring is second only to the HA as Sonic's worst move.

 

[Camalange]

Don't dair without Spring. Just don't unless your offstage. The lag just begs for you to be punished. I honestly think Dair without Spring is second only to the HA as Sonic's worst move.

I find laggy Dairs to be okay if it's being used to punish ending lag. People don't expect it, and it has enough knockback for them to not be able to punish YOUR ending lag. Blue is also known for his Fair>FSJ>Dair tactics, so try adding those into your game maybe.

Spring>Dair is also very predictable, so it's good to mix it up.

 

[Exceladon City]

Hey I got some vids for you guys to tear apart. Since my friend doesn't have the infinite replay hacks we had to do 3:00 matches.

First one is me vs his Toon Link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLZhrxsgWKY&feature=channel_page

Second one is me vs his Olimar. Olimar is like the hardest character for me to fight next to Lucario and Toon Link so I don't look too stellar in this match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74ALPNmZ8aQ&feature=channel

 

[ithrowthings]

Hey I got some vids for you guys to tear apart. Since my friend doesn't have the infinite replay hacks we had to do 3:00 matches.

First one is me vs his Toon Link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLZhrxsgWKY&feature=channel_page

Second one is me vs his Olimar. Olimar is like the hardest character for me to fight next to Lucario and Toon Link so I don't look too stellar in this match.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74ALPNmZ8aQ&feature=channel

I'm at work so not much time to watch videos.

I watched the TL video. Not too shabby. I hate "tearing apart" people or whatever but here's my try.

In general/overall

- Do more ASC. doing a retreating ASC works wonders and it's a great mixup.

- Save b-air or f-smash for finishing. Either choose one, both, or something but make sure that at least one is fresh.

- Spinshot can be a nice mixup from time to time. This TL wasn't using projectiles nearly as much as most. Spinshot can mess someone up pretty bad that is using projectiles.

- Against TL watch out for bair and zair at low % and usmash at high %, for this purpose I recommend saving fsmash for a finisher because bair is just too risky. TL is tough to kill though cause he approaches from air and stops your fsmash with a zair.

- This is actually probably the biggest thing I noticed in your matchup. While it is sometimes useful to fair into the ground, only do it very rarely, it's a high risk low gain move. I'm not sure if you realize how much you fair into the ground, I'll point it out in the video. This is probably your biggest weak point from what I noticed.

- Also, you gotta use more grabs. I saw a lot of whiffed grabs but even if you got those grabs you still need more grabs. Sonic gets a large amount of his % from grabs. If your opponent starts playing against you as though you are the IC's (starts dodging grabs) then switch it up and they'll fall right into your attacks

Actual match

I tried to leave out obvious things where you obviously knew what you were doing (whiffed grabs, missed aerials etc. The fact that you ran in and did a grab that missed meant you knew to actually do a grab, telling you never to whiff a grab is just stupid you'll get the spacing and timing down the more you play)

0:13 - combo outta that, I usually u-air but don't just leave those hangin

0:18 - homing attack sucks... this is a prime example of it's suckiness

0:28 - fair into ground

0:42 - this was risky, spring - dair right at your opponent is risky. however, the ftilt out of it was very nice

0:53 - fair into ground

1:02 - fair into ground

1:05 - fair into ground

1:09 - WTF, did you footstool to airdodge his u-air and not get hit? was this intentional? WTF?

1:38 - Nice spacing on those fsmashes. I'm pretty sure if he edge recovered with an attack he would've been dead.

2:03 - fair into ground

2:22 - fthrow is meh, u-throw is more %, also at 36% TL could have been punched once first before the throw. Every effing % counts with sonic.


Stop fairing into the ground, getting back to the ground is actually really hard with sonic because it limits your options and all your options are punishable if your opponent knows which one you will do. fair is just SUPER punishable due to the landing lag. I try and get them behind me so I can line up a bair. If they know I'm gonna bair though they can punish that as well. I'd say if they aren't lined up for the bair use nair instead of fair because there isn't landing lag on nair. You could also just land and run away or airdodge.

 

[Exceladon City]

I'm at work so not much time to watch videos.

I watched the TL video. Not too shabby. I hate "tearing apart" people or whatever but here's my try.

In general/overall

- Do more ASC. doing a retreating ASC works wonders and it's a great mixup.

- Save b-air or f-smash for finishing. Either choose one, both, or something but make sure that at least one is fresh.

- Spinshot can be a nice mixup from time to time. This TL wasn't using projectiles nearly as much as most. Spinshot can mess someone up pretty bad that is using projectiles.

- Against TL watch out for bair and zair at low % and usmash at high %, for this purpose I recommend saving fsmash for a finisher because bair is just too risky. TL is tough to kill though cause he approaches from air and stops your fsmash with a zair.

- This is actually probably the biggest thing I noticed in your matchup. While it is sometimes useful to fair into the ground, only do it very rarely, it's a high risk low gain move. I'm not sure if you realize how much you fair into the ground, I'll point it out in the video. This is probably your biggest weak point from what I noticed.

- Also, you gotta use more grabs. I saw a lot of whiffed grabs but even if you got those grabs you still need more grabs. Sonic gets a large amount of his % from grabs. If your opponent starts playing against you as though you are the IC's (starts dodging grabs) then switch it up and they'll fall right into your attacks

Actual match

I tried to leave out obvious things where you obviously knew what you were doing (whiffed grabs, missed aerials etc. The fact that you ran in and did a grab that missed meant you knew to actually do a grab, telling you never to whiff a grab is just stupid you'll get the spacing and timing down the more you play)

0:13 - combo outta that, I usually u-air but don't just leave those hangin

0:18 - homing attack sucks... this is a prime example of it's suckiness

0:28 - fair into ground

0:42 - this was risky, spring - dair right at your opponent is risky. however, the ftilt out of it was very nice

0:53 - fair into ground

1:02 - fair into ground

1:05 - fair into ground

1:09 - WTF, did you footstool to airdodge his u-air and not get hit? was this intentional? WTF?

1:38 - Nice spacing on those fsmashes. I'm pretty sure if he edge recovered with an attack he would've been dead.

2:03 - fair into ground

2:22 - fthrow is meh, u-throw is more %, also at 36% TL could have been punched once first before the throw. Every effing % counts with sonic.


Stop fairing into the ground, getting back to the ground is actually really hard with sonic because it limits your options and all your options are punishable if your opponent knows which one you will do. fair is just SUPER punishable due to the landing lag. I try and get them behind me so I can line up a bair. If they know I'm gonna bair though they can punish that as well. I'd say if they aren't lined up for the bair use nair instead of fair because there isn't landing lag on nair. You could also just land and run away or airdodge.

I need to work on my vertical spacing with fair. I'm pretty sure I have to jump a little higher so I won't fair into the ground. BTW at 0:13 I normally combo but most TL players dair to stop assaults from below and that homing attack was a total accident.