Teaching little bro to play Doc..

[Omni_Smash]

I'm going to be teaching my little brother how to play Doc today, because up until now the only character he would touch to win is Y. Link and I want to give him some more variety in his roster. He finally agreed to play as Doc for a while today but I suddenly realized that I'm more of a Mario/Luigi then I am a Doc.

I know there isn't much of a difference but still I don't know all the useful little staples that you doctors use when you guys patch up scraps and cuts. I know a few approaches like Dash A > Down Smash after a pill of course and then most of my approaches from my Mario Game should work. Wall of Pain, Forward air kills, ect... are there any other special tricks I should be teaching him that I am spacing?

I'm already having to change the way he thinks of grab combos, so I'd like some help from an experienced Doc, no PHD required.

 

[HiIH]

Pay attention to the differences of the Fsmash, since Doc's actually hasa small sweetspot in the middle of him.

 

[Omni_Smash]

O_O hmm... I've never been hit by it, that is good to know! thanks!

 

[HiIH]

Err, that's what I've been told anyways.

 

[Dogysamich]

sweetspot in the middle? Lol. there is no sweetspot to doc's f.smash. It hits, period.

Mario's is the one with the sweetspot.

__

If you're "more of a mario player". you can get him started by teaching him the basics of mario. They're pretty much the same, except for doc never capes twice to recover, and you cant u.tilt to start a combo.

 

[HiIH]

Someone lied to me. = |

Don't listen to me, by the way.

 

[Omni_Smash]

ok, thanks for the helpd guys.

 

[Neverender]

Marios sweetspots in the middle not Docs. If doc's hits your down. :D

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Omfg I just got "patch up scraps and cuts."

I am so smart.

I have a few thoughts about how Doc plays. I might be wrong, so take my advice with a pinch of salt.

Okay, as far as Doc goes, you should start with the approach! One of the biggest things to remember is to pill. Pills are awesome and integral to the approach. You shouldn't really use them from a standing position or really a short hop. Full jump, pill on the way up, and then you're free to waveland after the pill to hit them with a nair, dair or a JC grab. Try not to dash attack, as they can just shield the pill and the attack, then grab you.

You can also approach with bairs if you need a fast approach, or with dry nairs, but the latter is really not that great of an idea.

When shffl'ing attacks in general at people's shields, you want to throw the attack out as low as possible. If you hit them at the last possible moment, it will increase the amount of frame advantage you have on them, and in the case of the nair, you'll get more shieldstun 'cause you'll have used a stronger hit.

Also in the subject of shffl'ing, you can auto-cancel short hop uairs and bairs. Just so you know. Uairs are really nice to combo with, and they can lead into stuff like fairs for the kill. Dthrow to fair is also supposed to be a good finisher (uthrow to fair on fastfallers) but I haven't gotten that to work.

Doc's jab game is also really important. You can jab to dsmash (just one jab, two will give them too much warning and they'll escape), grab or sometimes even fsmash. The fsmash shouldn't really be used that much, as it's got pretty terrible range, but it's there if you're sure you can hit them.

Grabs are also good. Dthrow and uthrow are the big ones, as bthrow won't kill until 150+ near the ledge and fthrow won't kill at any appreciable percents. It's usually better to try to throw combo into a strong hit off the stage than to throw people off the stage. Also, know your chaingrabs! You've got a lot of dthrow chaingrabs (on Sheik and Link and stuff) and uthrow chaingrabs on the spacies. If you can't reach someone with a shieldgrab, jump out of shield and smack them instead.

Wavedashing is a good thing. It keeps you mobile and can open up... openings... in the enemy's defense, which Doc needs because he has no range.

When you ledgehop, it's really tempting to ledgehop the fair because it's powerful and painful. Don't. It's got a lot of windup time, and people can hit you out of it pretty easily, which means you'll be recovering without a second jump which will suck for you. Use the nair, uair or dair instead.

When you recover, throw pills. The cape doesn't ever help you, but it does help you stall when you're above stage level (only once, though), so be aware of that. Use your big sweetspot and your high priority recovery to break through edgeguards.

When you edgeguard, use the bair! Doc can go out really far, so keep pushing them back. You can also ledgehop a bair and regrab the edge without using the Super Jump Punch, which is cool.

Doc's ftilt is pretty good, but I like the dsmash more. Use his utilt though. It clears people out rather nicely and it can set up for combos if they're above you.

That's all I can think of for now.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

sweetspot in the middle? Lol. there is no sweetspot to doc's f.smash. It hits, period.

Mario's is the one with the sweetspot.

__

If you're "more of a mario player". you can get him started by teaching him the basics of mario. They're pretty much the same, except for doc never capes twice to recover, and you cant u.tilt to start a combo.

also mario doesnt really have any reliable ko moves (his fsmash is good, but far from reliable. especially considering that it's sweetspot oriented. and he cant combo most chars into it from a throw at high percent)
and mario's bair sux for gimping (ie his bair pretty much sucks compared to docs)
and fireballs suck compared to pills

mario has a better recovery though
also his arials lag less i think

 

[Neverender]

also mario doesnt really have any reliable ko moves (his fsmash is good, but far from reliable. especially considering that it's sweetspot oriented. and he cant combo most chars into it from a throw at high percent)
and mario's bair sux for gimping (ie his bair pretty much sucks compared to docs)
and fireballs suck compared to pills

mario has a better recovery though
also his arials lag less i think

Yeah, mario's killing move is pretty much fsmash. Unless you go for his gimp bair, but thats no where near good as docs.

 

[Vyse]

Forward Smash 19-25%
Though the range on this attack isn't great, (Alright. Its downright pathetic) this is not a useless move in the least. Unlike other smashes, its power is consistent no matter where and how it hits. In addition to having the ability to angle it upwards and downwards, it is somewhat famous for hitting people ontop and sometimes behind Doc too! Point being, its the finisher of choice from a low juggle if you can afford the mild startup time. It works easiest from a D.throw(on lighter characters) but can be squeezed in after a shuffle or dash attack, too. In most cases though, the D.Smash is easier to connect and harder to punish if it goes wrong. Never a move to be spammed, it must be used intelligently. Probably the best situation you can create for it is a reverse WD into F.Smash, to counter an oponent's aerial diving.

I haven't read cyphus' guide in years =_=

I was under the impression there was a sweetspot, that causes complete horizontal knockback. I'm probably wrong though.

I would imagine referring to either of the guides would be a good idea if you want to learn Doc.

 

[Omni_Smash]

Wonderful advice guy my brother is very happy with how his first day of Doctor school went against my Mario and Kirby. I have to say WTH! when ever he pill stalls me or sheets my recovery because his timing is indentical to mine, lol. I see what you mean about Doc's back air, it's really strong but Mario's is faster, and combo's easier for me.

 

[St. Viers]

have him work on wavedashing, and doing it well enough to actually use it to space jabs and tilts as an approach.

remember that jab is your friend, and so is upB in a pinch (even if you can't cancel it), moreso with platformed stages.

pills are much more versitile than the previous advice leads you to think. You can use them from a shorthop to help space and stall, and if you full jump you can act before/as you land, including rejumping, shooting another pill, and still being able to act as you land.by varying your momentum in jumping forward, you can have them hit the target at the same time, or spaced enough to safely land/stop their approach.

when using aerials, use them as late as possible, and make sure your l-cancels are there. Even attacks like f-air/n-air are much more useful, as the later you hit them while shffling, the more likely they can't respond before you are out of your lag. Also, after a successful l-cancel, get used to jabbing, sidestepping, and simply dashing away--don't do the same thing each time.

use the fact you can jump from your shield to more safely punish people with a greater range than your shield grab--never shieldgrab out of habit, mix it up with d-airs, wavedash->something, and the like.

Next biggest thing is the ledgegame. Get him used to wavedashing off the ledge, as well as dropping off at a variety of angles--up and over, up and back, down as far as possible, and then just attacking from off the edge, d-air is usually the best option, but up-sir and n-air are occasionally useful. Even rarer is f-air--almost never use it, same with off the ledge pills.

Next most important: recovery. You have to be able to do the PTP. as it gives you if done properly some vertical, but more importantly, it can give you some horizontal distance as well. So DI up towards the diagonal of the screen, and PTP instead of jumping right away (gets you the boost without you being in a vunerable area), and then drift towards the stage. If possible, use pills to clear the ledge. Then use your jump and up B to get back on. Mix it up (if you can drift over the stage, rather than to the ledge, that's good to do), and also, you can cape to reverse yourself and use double-jump b-air to get back onto the stage.

Doc's recovery is bad, so try and make the best of it.

 

[Omni_Smash]

Good advice lol, sounds like you went to medical school.

 

[St. Viers]

XD, I'm just a theory player (I talk smash better than I play it, or at least that used to be the case >_>)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

St. Viers, your name always reminds me of the St. Ives riddle.

 

[Neverender]

Your name reminds me of an arrow elven. Just saying.

 

[$ick]

tell him to bair a lot.

 

[ranmaru]

St. Viers, your name always reminds me of the St. Ives riddle.

Haha, St. Aaaaaaaarrrghhh. xD (Monty Python joke)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Wasn't that the Cave of Aaa?

 

[Smo]

It was the castle aaarrgghh

 

[isthattim?]

much <3 for this thread!!!

 

[Gea]

Pretty sure there is a sweetspot at his wrist/palm. Or that was the old theory anyways. It makes like... so little difference if its even there, so who knows.

Get your grabs on and learn to ftilt *****. Those two things can make a good Doc great.

 

[BrianTheLion]

teach him up-b cancel lol its soo cool

 

[Purple_Haze]

teach him up-b cancel lol its soo cool

jab - up.b-cancel - fair - death
(above 90%)