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I don't think that applies, because Zero isn't a solo Diddy main. What we're saying is that just because only one player uses a character doesn't mean that they're not top tier material. Diddy has a bunch of notable players besides Zero, like MVD and C3PO.
I'm glad you did. Pikachu is the character I know the most about, so I can actually contribute a lot to discussion about him.
Diddy Kong is a good character, but the way I would rephrases Feelicks's statement is this:
Your list looks a lot likeI may be a little late to the party but at the moment my personal tier list looks something like this:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Any criticism is welcome and encouraged
DMWN
's list, which is good, because that list is pretty top notch.
atreyujames
Easily my favorite list besides my own. There are a few things I would change around, such as Robin's and Shulk's positioning (I'd bump them a little higher and put Bowser into D), but aside from that nitpick of mine, I believe this list is extremely accurate.
I'll admit, Robin's placement might be pure personal bias. She has and probably always will be my least favourite character, and that opinion has probably seeped into my placement of her. Shulk is pretty hard to place and I COULD see him a bit higher if need be. But Bowser I feel has earned a bump up to C tier with his buffs. This opinion is mostly speculator y at the moment, and might change as I see more of how his buffs function in actual tournament play.
I may be a little late to the party but at the moment my personal tier list looks something like this:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Any criticism is welcome and encouraged
I may be a little late to the party but at the moment my personal tier list looks something like this:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Any criticism is welcome and encouraged
ShadowGuy1
I'd like to agree with your opinion on Little Mac, but the fact of the matter is his few results do not help his placement. If you can provide some justification for your ideas, however, I would be happy to bump him up based on what you find. As far as Roy vs. Link goes, Link has the combos and projectiles Roy lacks, even while lacking Roy's speed. They're truly similar characters in terms of viability.
Pit is SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS++++++ Teir...trust me on thisI may be a little late to the party but at the moment my personal tier list looks something like this:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Any criticism is welcome and encouraged
Leave Duck Hunt out of this. They are a beautiful/adorable pair and are great...in Japan atleast. Stop hurting me!
I'm putting this in spoilers to prevent such a long post from clogging up this page. It initially compared their ground attacks, and then grew into a full blown comparison. I used to secondary Roy on his release, and dual main Marth now so I know my fair bit about them both.
I'll be honest, as a Marth main, I feel that Roy doesn't lose/have a disadvantage in as many matchups as Marth, but I also feel that he doesn't win/have an advantage in as many matchups as Marth either. I also feel that Roy's combo throws are what make him shine. If Marth had slightly better throws, I'd no doubt, 100% say that Marth was better. It's this what still makes me think that Roy can still potentially still outdo Marth, safety or not.Remember back in June when everyone was saying Roy was just a better Marth?
This is... actually pretty good! Though I think Mewtwo isn't the best in tier D, he is still somewhere near the top of it. The only other things I have problems with are Falco and Bowser. Falco IMO should be near Marth and G&W and Bowser should be near his son. But that's it. You have Samus out of bottom 10, Marth is fairly placed (though I do feel he can be at bottom of C, that is still nice), Rosalina isn't in S, Villager in top 10... very nice!Updated Tier List after seeing other comments.
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:
Changes:
Mewtwo to Top of D
Samus out of Bottom 10
Shulk to E
Meta Knight above Mario
Robin above Roy
Rob above Pits
Palu above Duck Hunt
Bowser below Samus
: Immensely buffed.: Buffed. Now I can never think of Brawl Falcon ever again.: Nerfed.: Bodied.: Nerfed, but still one of the best characters in the game.: Buffed.: Significantly nerfed, but a viable CP/secondary.: One of the characters hit hardest by the nerf hammer.: Nerfed, but far better relative to the cast compared to Brawl.: Buffed. Not enough to make up for his glaring flaws, unfortunately.: Buffed.: Nerfed.: Nerfed.: Buffed.: Nerfed in most other departments besides Aura.: Nerfed.: Buffed.: Buffed. : Nerfed. Ditto as Falco.: Nerfed. Ditto as Diddy.: Buffed from Melee.: Nerfed. Ditto as Falco and Marth.: Incredibly buffed.: Nerfed, but still a viable character.: Buffed.: Buffed.: Mix of buffs and nerfs, but has a better place in the meta compared to Brawl's.: Buffed.: Buffed. Went from terrible in Melee to just mediocre here. Something, I suppose.: Mix of buffs and nerfs, but buffed overall from Brawl despite her issues.: I don't need to explain this one.: Buffed.: Slightly nerfed from Brawl, but still a viable character.: Slightly nerfed. Ditto as Toon Link.: Buffed heavily.: Slightly buffed. Still awful though. 
: Ditto as Sheik.
Thanks for the catch, I am on mobile so I can't edit it. Fox above Diddy and Doc at 11th from worst. EDIT:I edited with Falco by Marth must have not seen it.
It's finally time for me to make a list:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
Drink it all in before judging it. This tier list is the culmination of a lot of thought over the past few weeks.
You're missing Fox and Dr. MarioUpdated Tier List after seeing other comments.
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:
Changes:
Mewtwo to Top of D
Samus out of Bottom 10
Shulk to E
Meta Knight above Mario
Robin above Roy
Rob above Pits
Palu above Duck Hunt
Bowser below Samus
EDIT:Falco above Kirby
You didn't notice ZSS above Sheik? Teeheehee!
Robin's a bit low, but more importantly Marth is not worse than Roy. I'll accept still being in Tier 5, but he's either on par with or higher than Roy.It's finally time for me to make a list:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
Drink it all in before judging it. This tier list is the culmination of a lot of thought over the past few weeks.
I really didn't think that much about Marth and Roy. Why would you say that Roy is worse than Marth, though. To me he seems better in every way other than tipper.
>Mega Man has no rep
Esam dropped Yoshi, in favor of somebody else for Mario. Point is still accurate though, espicially considering there is also Firefly.
Oh my god, I didn't notice either LOL
It seems not very often we agree on much, but I am a Marth dual main, and I do agree that Roy could be slightly better than Marth, though on par is also believable (albeit, I think both are slightly higher than you placed them, but that's beside the point), if only that Roy's combo game is slightly more effective. Marth may have superior/safer approachs, better baiting and defensive games, safer punishes etc, but Roy's combos allow him to rack up damage pretty easily. When both of them can kill insanely early, the ability to rack up damage pretty easily merges well with this. I think they are at least on par with each other.
Mario & Sonic Guy
It really it just depends what you see is effective. The paragraphs above summaries my opinions at least (coming from a Marth player).
Low tier? wth? Kirby has great combos, an up tilt that follows inot itself a billion times, and good down tilt too, great throw, forward throw being great for comboing, down throw good for comboing, and up throw great at KOing, pretty good recovery, good frame data on many moves, the ability to copy neutral specials, great aierals, great edgeguarding, and has even matchups aganistNot really. Low tier seems about right for him.
and possibly (Probably 45:55 though) and 55:45 matchups aganist . That defitenly doesn't sound like low tier to me.
Yeah the fact that Kirby's air speed is set at 0.8 means that his recovery is rather poor, even with 5 mid-air jumps. And since you're not always permitted to use custom specials, you won't be able to use Upper Cutter over Final Cutter.
He's also slow, light, has poor recovery, subpar range, and somewhat prone to juggling.Low tier? wth? Kirby has great combos, an up tilt that follows inot itself a billion times, and good down tilt too, great throw, forward throw being great for comboing, down throw good for comboing, and up throw great at KOing, pretty good recovery, good frame data on many moves, the ability to copy neutral specials, great aierals, great edgeguarding, and has even matchups aganist
Nobody likes Duck Hunt or Megaman anymore...It's finally time for me to make a list:
S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
Drink it all in before judging it. This tier list is the culmination of a lot of thought over the past few weeks.
Oh dang it! I missed a bunch of characters. No worries. I'll add them. Also, I didn't include the Miis because I have no knowledge of them and they are basically excluded from all competitive play at this point.It seems not very often we agree on much, but I am a Marth dual main, and I do agree that Roy could be slightly better than Marth, though on par is also believable (albeit, I think both are slightly higher than you placed them, but that's beside the point), if only that Roy's combo game is slightly more effective. Marth may have superior/safer approachs, better baiting and defensive games, safer punishes etc, but Roy's combos allow him to rack up damage pretty easily. When both of them can kill insanely early, the ability to rack up damage pretty easily merges well with this. I think they are at least on par with each other.
Also, I don't know whether you were doing this intentionally, but you missed Samus out on that list. Oh I also saw no Cloud. But your tier B is very good. I also like that you also seem to see more in Greninja. I too think he is better than most people give him credit for these days. Also, no Mii's included? Or is this a FG tier list?
Feelicks, I think you need to calm down already. You have spent the past few pages raging at people over their opinions. Just chill out. We're just trying to have a mature discussion and everyone has their own opinions.
I haven't played Kirby seriously in a while now, so my thoughts are rusty. I can't comment on Lucario or Pac since I haven't been through that MU commonly with Kirbs at all but I'll give my best thoughts on the other characters. Gonna call @Mazdamaxsti since he still plays him more consistently, and can give more insightful input and correct what wrong observations I've made from my experience.He's also slow, light, has poor recovery, subpar range, and somewhat prone to juggling.
As for strengths you listed, utilt only combos into itself 3-5 times on most characters. Down throw doesn't combo. All specials are quite laggy, and most of his moves have poor startup.
I can't comment on how accurate those you MUs are, since I'm not experienced enough to have an educational say, though I'm pretty sure he does not go even with Sheik and ZSS. Could you comment on how accurate they are @Feelicks?
: Kirby loses this matchup, no questions asked. He gets camped, spaced out and killed early, especially with Purple Pikmin around. Less volatile than it was in Brawl, but still not very good. Despite Olimar's own poor aerial mobility, he at least makes it with it with his disjoints and hella good aerials.: He actually does kinda alright here. Close to even, but it'd be more in Fox's favor if I had to pick. Though after the up throw buff, it'd definitely benefit Kirby more since he now has a good option to close out Fox's stock due to his own poor endurance. This set shows very well how the MU goes, imo. One of the best Fox players vs. one of the best Kirby players.: Uh, how does Kirby win this again?? Villager is a monster at zoning and keeping people out, and Kirby is very susceptible to just that. Villager doesn't have much trouble killing off Kirby, especially with dtilt, utilt, and up air. His edgeguarding game is also potent to Kirby, especially since he can take advantage of Kirby's linear, slow recovery. Villager also has a frame 3 nair to break out of Kirby's combos. He's also practically impossible to edgeguard thanks to Balloon Trip covering so much distance and having good maneuverability.: Wario beats Kirby as well. He has one of the best air speeds in the game, and can just air camp Kirby out most of the time on stages with platforms to get a free Waft charge. He can weave in and out with rising aerials, and back air is even a kill move. He benefits well from Rage thanks to him being a heavyweight, making it even more deadly if Kirby gets hit by something like his forward tilt, Waft, or his forward throw. It also helps Wario has one of the best command grabs in the game to assist him in racking up damage. Kirby can Inhale it and copy him, but good luck catching him first.: As a running tread in this post, Kirby struggles against zoners. Unfortunately R.O.B. is one of the best of said field in the game, and can easily keep him out of his range with lasers, gyro and nair. Kirby's poor vertical survivability bites him here too since he's susceptible to being Beep-Booped (even if he can DI out of it), and R.O.B. has a myraid of finishers and moves that can put Kirby in an uncomfortable position. Down smash is a semi-spike, and Kirby hates semi-spikes. Up smash has a hitbox that pulls opponents into the actual hit, is great below platforms and comes out fast and has large range, and a fully charged Robo Beam is good for KOing offstage at high percents. R.O.B. is still combo food and Kirby goes get good reward once he gets in and penetrates his defenses, but it'll be a uphill battle for him to do so.: I don't know how to feel about this one. Sometimes I feel like it's even, sometimes I feel like Kirby is at a big disadvantage thanks to Falcon's speed, juggle game, KOing power and great dash grab. Falcon is combo food like R.O.B. due to his high weight, but Kirby has trouble getting in thanks to Falcon's own great movement and frame data. Both characters are at a significant risk offstage due to their below-average recoveries, so I suppose that's a thing.Sorry if I've been getting heated, promise to be more chill about this entire thing. I really do take this kinda stuff way too seriously, and I apologize. It just bothers me when I see many people make the same incorrect statements a lot of times.Oh dang it! I missed a bunch of characters. No worries. I'll add them. Also, I didn't include the Miis because I have no knowledge of them and they are basically excluded from all competitive play at this point.
Feelicks, I think you need to calm down already. You have spent the past few pages raging at people over their opinions. Just chill out. We're just trying to have a mature discussion and everyone has their own opinions.
Thank you for your acknowledgement. I think we all need to remember that this discussion is for the betterment of the community so we can feel out where all the characters stand in the metagame. So, we can all relax and enjoy working on our tier lists. It's actually quite enjoyable to discuss character placements.
