Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Furret24]

Duck Hunt so low everywhere

Because Duck Hunt is garbage.

Shame too, he's one of my favorite characters to play as. :/

 

[Deleted member]

Because Duck Hunt is garbage.

Shame too, he's one of my favorite characters to play as. :/

I'm surprised you didn't say anything about Mii Brawler's position there.

I did. It was my fourth point.

EDIT: oops

 

[FooltheFlames]

Your placement of Cloud seems reasonable enough, even though I'd place Ryu way above him. Though, I have a lot of quibbles with your list, I don't intend to come off rude here at all so apologies in advance:

• Palutena isn't the worst character in the game. I've repeated it many times at this point.
• Mac isn't bottom 3. He's definitely on the lower end of the cast and suffers from inconsistent results at top level, but he's not godawful.
• Dedede is not better than Samus or Charizard in any capacity.
• 1111 Mii Brawler shouldn't be anywhere else but F tier. Bad specials, recovery, laggy smashes, virtually no tournament representation, could go on.
• Roy... isn't better than Robin. Neither is Link.
• Why is Peach lower than Shulk? A Peach got 17th place at Genesis 3, and her abilities far outdo that of Shulk's, not to mention she has much better rep and results than him.
• What in Kongo Bongo's name is DK doing in bottom 15? He gets insane damage racking and KOing ability off a grab, has great air and ground mobility and is very good at spacing.
• Luigi is not top 5. I don't see how he's better than Villager, Mario, Diddy, Fox and much more Sonic.
• Meta Knight is far too low. How is a character irrelevant as Lucas above him?
• Lucario has little to suggest he's top 15.
• Kirby is most definitely not better than Toon Link, Mega Man, Olimar, Ike or Pac-Man.
• ZSS worse than Pikachu and Rosa? I'm not seeing this. ZSS gets far more reward on hit and off a grab than both characters despite her arguably lackluster neutral, and has much more representation in tournaments.
• Ness is not better than anybody in his tier except Lucario and Luigi. He's a very good character, but defo not top 5.

Many thankies for your input~<3

• If Paulie and Lil'mac arent bottom, who is in your opinion? Cuz I dont think it's Puff or Zelda.
• DDD has got some good death combos on some characters, if he plays ping pong with his gordos.
• He could be, yeah. I based my list off of if customs were allowed, and more off of potential rather then tourney results- is that the wrong way to go about making these things?
• Maybe not Robin, but Link is underestimated I believe- though when it comes to tourney results, he lacks a key player to represent him, I know.
• Wasn't aware, I'll try to place Peach higher next time then.
• About DK, I did place him higher than I did the first time.
• But I didn't place him in top 5, he's #6! Point taken though~
• I cant see me placing Meta much higher, and I think Lucas is a really great character- he's got a few 0% to death combos.
• Lucario could be lower, yeah.
• I think Kirby, along side Puff and Link, are highly underrated, they just lack proper representation...
• Pika has QA, and Rosa... well, maybe better than Rosa OK
• Ness can be lower.

I am going to give a lot of critisism, so do not feel upset. I will try to not make it seem mean cause I PERSOANLLY do not agree with a lot of the things on here. Going to go top to bottom btw

is not number 2, swap with ZSS imo but I would like to see why you think this.
is no where near better than also is not better than
at this point is more than likely better than Cloud
is FAR too high and the thing i disagree most about this tier list. Should be at MOST B tier low
FAR TOO LOW. He is an easy top 10
like Lucario he is too high, should be in C around where is atm, and should be in this spot
<
I am going to assume you used any size miis or all customs but in case not, is one of the worst
IS ACTUALLY THE THING I DISAGREE WITH and should at least be where Pac is, not swapping the two.
is not the worst. She has nice throw combos and good aerials.

Again i do not want this to seem like i am bashing you, just that a lot of things I did not like.

EDIT:And 'd literally Feelicks said all i needed to say

That's perfectly fine, you dont seem mean to me at all ^^

Well has Quick Attack, and doesnt. Characters that are that close to one another are interchangeable though, so I could see ZSS one place over Pika, why not?
Many people have been telling me, I'm placing ,,and too high, while placing and too low, and maybe they are right.
I could see being higher than and OK
has great things going for him, but is so much more mobile and can gimp Ryu easily, I think? I havent seen a really great match up of these two from there respective best players yet, but I feel Cloud would win the match up.
is awful now, I got that. I dont know what i was thinking really ha ha
is mostly an easy an mundane match up for , as far as my own experience goes. Though I could stand to place Ike higher, I would never place him above the two Links.
deserves better, ok, i can understand that, i do think i have been placing her too low in these
if or arent the worse, it cant be or ... maybe or ???


I'll work on revising my tier list tomorrow everyone~, thanx for all the info and stuffs

 

[Xandercosm]

Thank you very much for your input, I just learned alot from you ^^
However, I do believe you're underestimating the likes of Kirby, Link, and Puff, respectively.

How's this:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:

Tell me something though- Am I just suffering from the recent hype and placing Cloud a little too high here? He seems really, really good in this game; He's like if Falcon had added range and a projectile!

Holy mother of jesus this has gotta be the most pain my poor eyes have ever been in. Is this tier list legit or a joke?

 

[Furret24]

If Paulie and Lil'mac arent bottom, who is in your opinion? Cuz I dont think it's Puff or Zelda.

...Puff or Zelda. At the very least, they're worse than Palutena and Mac Attack.

I cant see me placing Meta much higher, and I think Lucas is a really great character- he's got a few 0% to death combos.

I was not aware Lucas had 0%-Death combos. Are these true and/or reliable, or are they just loose strings that only work on players with bad DI (i'm curious)?

Well has Quick Attack, and doesnt. Characters that are that close to one another are interchangeable though, so I could see ZSS one place over Pika, why not?

has Paralyzer, Boost Kick, and Flip Kick, and does not. ;P

 

[Deleted member]

Many thankies for your input~<3

• If Paulie and Lil'mac arent bottom, who is in your opinion? Cuz I dont think it's Puff or Zelda.
• DDD has got some good death combos on some characters, if he plays ping pong with his gordos.
• He could be, yeah. I based my list off of if customs were allowed, and more off of potential rather then tourney results- is that the wrong way to go about making these things?
• Maybe not Robin, but Link is underestimated I believe- though when it comes to tourney results, he lacks a key player to represent him, I know.
• Wasn't aware, I'll try to place Peach higher next time then.
• About DK, I did place him higher than I did the first time.
• But I didn't place him in top 5, he's #6! Point taken though~
• I cant see me placing Meta much higher, and I think Lucas is a really great character- he's got a few 0% to death combos.
• Lucario could be lower, yeah.
• I think Kirby, along side Puff and Link, are highly underrated, they just lack proper representation...
• Pika has QA, and Rosa... well, maybe better than Rosa OK
• Ness can be lower.

That's perfectly fine, you dont seem mean to me at all ^^

Well has Quick Attack, and doesnt. Characters that are that close to one another are interchangeable though, so I could see ZSS one place over Pika, why not?
Many people have been telling me, I'm placing ,,and too high, while placing and too low, and maybe they are right.
I could see being higher than and OK
has great things going for him, but is so much more mobile and can gimp Ryu easily, I think? I havent seen a really great match up of these two from there respective best players yet, but I feel Cloud would win the match up.
is awful now, I got that. I dont know what i was thinking really ha ha
is mostly an easy an mundane match up for , as far as my own experience goes. Though I could stand to place Ike higher, I would never place him above the two Links.
deserves better, ok, i can understand that, i do think i have been placing her too low in these
if or arent the worse, it cant be or ... maybe or ???


I'll work on revising my tier list tomorrow everyone~, thanx for all the info and stuffs

My bottom 3 goes like this:



You're pretty mistaken on Dedede. He has zero kill confirms and has to rely on a read to kill almost all the time, or the lucky bair or down smash hit. Gordos can be reflected too fast for Dedede to hit them back, especially at close range.

When it comes to Miis, 1111 is the most common set due to the blanket ban on customs and lack of universal Mii ruleset. Better to base it off that.

Meta Knight has dash attack or down throw into uair strings and Shuttle Loop, which can kill extremely early. He also has great mobility, frame data and burst movement options. Most of the characters you put above him aren't better than him at all.

I don't see Link having much of a future in Smash 4. Sure he wrecks most of the low tiers, but I can't name a single relevant character he clearly beats besides DK. Jigglypuff suffers from a myriad of issues, has a huge lack of results and has an awful matchup spread.

Holy mother of jesus this has gotta be the most pain my poor eyes have ever been in. Is this tier list legit or a joke?

Don't be an arse. There's being blunt, then there's just being outright rude. I disagree with a lot of things on the list but I didn't outright lash at her for it.

 

[Xandercosm]

Don't be an arse. There's being blunt, then there's just being outright rude. I disagree with a lot of things on the list but I didn't outright lash at her for it.

Dude, I'm kidding. I didn't like the tier list but saying "holy mother of Jesus" was supposed to be a bit over the top. Don't be so uptight.

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, I'm kidding. I didn't like the tier list but saying "holy mother of Jesus" was supposed to be a bit over the top. Don't be so uptight.

To be fair, it's very hard to tell whenever you're joking or not. Meanings get lost through text sometimes.

 

[Xandercosm]

To be fair, it's very hard to tell whenever you're joking or not. Meanings get lost through text sometimes.

Ok, you're right. I hate teh interwebz for being so confusing...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Still don't like the fact that America pretty much gave up on Duck Hunt...there's always Japan I guess

 

[Browny]

I sure cant wait for pikachu to stop being over-rated

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mario & Sonic Guy Thanks for your thorough answer! So it's no coincidence that I have so much difficulty landing with her.

Yeah it's quite sad that Rosalina's air speed is just so mediocre. If her air speed was better, then the issue would probably be a bit less problematic, but some people really hate the idea of seeing Rosalina get any buffs, even when they're warranted at some areas.

 

[C3CC]

Yeah it's quite sad that Rosalina's air speed is just so mediocre. If her air speed was better, then the issue would probably be a bit less problematic, but some people really hate the idea of seeing Rosalina get any buffs, even when they're warranted at some areas.

Yeah, many people complain about her being supposedly OP. Personally, I think she's just fine as she is right now, except for the one thing you mentioned. Some tweaks to her air speed would be nice. Do you know what else is sad? The overwhelming amount of hate Rosalina started receiving after her debut in Smash. Most of my friends despise her because of Smash. When we play Super Mario 3D World, no one wants to choose her. They go "No, not that b*tch". When we play Mario Kart 8 and she passes them, they're like "God, I can't stand her". I've seen similar comments on Twitter, especially during Genesis 3, where I saw many people rooting against Dabuz just because they didn't want to see Rosalina win. Too bad they don't get to see she's actually a very cool character, but whatever.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Yeah, many people complain about her being supposedly OP. Personally, I think she's just fine as she is right now, except for the one thing you mentioned. Some tweaks to her air speed would be nice. Do you know what else is sad? The overwhelming amount of hate Rosalina started receiving after her debut in Smash. Most of my friends despise her because of Smash. When we play Super Mario 3D World, no one wants to choose her. They go "No, not that b*tch". When we play Mario Kart 8 and she passes them, they're like "God, I can't stand her". I've seen similar comments on Twitter, especially during Genesis 3, where I saw many people rooting against Dabuz just because they didn't want to see Rosalina win. Too bad they don't get to see she's actually a very cool character, but whatever.

Yeah it's quite disturbing, especially when you take into account that Rosalina is no longer the dominating force that she was before Smash 3DS's 1.0.4 update.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:

Added Fox before Diddy, and Diddy below villager
Added Doc to end of D tier
Marth to end of C tier

 

[Furret24]

Yeah, many people complain about her being supposedly OP. Personally, I think she's just fine as she is right now, except for the one thing you mentioned. Some tweaks to her air speed would be nice. Do you know what else is sad? The overwhelming amount of hate Rosalina started receiving after her debut in Smash. Most of my friends despise her because of Smash. When we play Super Mario 3D World, no one wants to choose her. They go "No, not that b*tch". When we play Mario Kart 8 and she passes them, they're like "God, I can't stand her". I've seen similar comments on Twitter, especially during Genesis 3, where I saw many people rooting against Dabuz just because they didn't want to see Rosalina win. Too bad they don't get to see she's actually a very cool character, but whatever.

Some people take Smash far too seriously. Shame really.

Yeah it's quite sad that Rosalina's air speed is just so mediocre. If her air speed was better, then the issue would probably be a bit less problematic, but some people really hate the idea of seeing Rosalina get any buffs, even when they're warranted at some areas.

Having 1.0 airspeed isn't all that terrible, just average. Can't really say she warrants any buffs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Having 1.0 airspeed isn't all that terrible, just average. Can't really say she warrants any buffs.

It still feels rather mediocre for Rosalina. I don't really see why it would be bad if Rosalina's air speed was set to 1.25; her air speed would still be slower than that of Jigglypuff and Yoshi, and personally, I actually would've liked it if Rosalina had the 3rd best air speed (tied with Mewtwo).

I will say though, that an air speed value of 1 does make plenty of sense for Little Mac, since his air game is meant to be terrible.

 

[Furret24]

It still feels rather mediocre for Rosalina. I don't really see why it would be bad if Rosalina's air speed was set to 1.25; her air speed would still be slower than that of Jigglypuff and Yoshi, and personally, I actually would've liked it if Rosalina had the 3rd best air speed (tied with Mewtwo).

I will say though, that an air speed value of 1 does make plenty of sense for Little Mac, since his air game is meant to be terrible.

You say all of this as is having 1.0 airspeed is bad. It's still tied for the 29th best in the game, which is still decent.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You say all of this as is having 1.0 airspeed is bad. It's still tied for the 29th best in the game, which is still decent.

An air speed value of 1 is actually ranked 30th out of 56 if you include the Mii Fighters, which is a below average ranking; 28th place is the current average.

 

[DMWN]

Hmm, I think I'm about ready to put the Mii Fighters into my tier list. Until I can work on another one, I'll start doing my homework.
...
For the record, I mean actual real-life homework. Of course, I'll be checking my facts on the Mii Fighters as well.

 

[Bowserboy3]

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:
G:

Added Fox before Diddy, and Diddy below villager
Added Doc to end of D tier
Marth to end of C tier

This is pretty nice actually, buuuuut...

Any reason Bowser is so low down? Surely having that kill confirm warrants him a higher position. I'd personally say at the very top of D at lowest. Other than that, I can't really complain about the rest of it. Maybe Lucina up a couple spots, but that's about it. Good list.

 

[Routa]

I suggest people to avoid puting Mii Fighters in their lists unless they have experience of them. And yeah if you place Mii Fighters in your list... Well use Guest 1111 instead of Any size XXXX due to how rarely they are played and how unexplored they still are.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

This is pretty nice actually, buuuuut...

Any reason Bowser is so low down? Surely having that kill confirm warrants him a higher position. I'd personally say at the very top of D at lowest. Other than that, I can't really complain about the rest of it. Maybe Lucina up a couple spots, but that's about it. Good list.

My main reason is because of representation. Yes, I know Bowser got buffed this patch, but I don't see no one doing anything with him. All the other characters, baring Lucina, have a prominent player playing them.

 

[Furret24]

An air speed value of 1 is actually ranked 30th out of 56 if you include the Mii Fighters, which is a below average ranking; 28th place is the current average.

Forgot about Miis. :|

It's still about average though.

 

[Bowserboy3]

My main reason is because of representation. Yes, I know Bowser got buffed this patch, but I don't see no one doing anything with him. All the other characters, baring Lucina, have a prominent player playing them.

That is fair enough, although tournament representation isn't everything, especially in Bowser's case when he has an actual throw to kill confirm, something not too many character have now.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I suggest people to avoid puting Mii Fighters in their lists unless they have experience of them. And yeah if you place Mii Fighters in your list... Well use Guest 1111 instead of Any size XXXX due to how rarely they are played and how unexplored they still are.

Putting the Miis in their own tier would be another option.

Forgot about Miis. :|

It's still about average though.

All that I'm saying is that even though 1 is average for air speed, it's considered below average in the rankings when you look at the whole roster. Right now, the average ranked air speed value is 1.02 (Marth's and Lucina's air speed value). This will eventually change once Corrin and Bayonetta are released, however.

 

[Xandercosm]

I think buffing Rosalina at the moment would be absolutely atrocious. She deserves the hate she gets because she has been horrendously balanced from the start. If you want her to get less hate, you should be asking for her to be better balanced.

She destroys low tiers, meaning that buffing her (especially her airspeed) would just perpetuate the issue. In fact, I think Rosalina and ZSS are the best examples of unbalanced characters in the entire game. Sheik, at least, has small weaknesses that allow low tiers to at least stand a small chance (namely low kill power). Rosalina and ZSS completely wall out, like, half the cast. It's just not right and if we want this game's meta to grow and be more interesting, we want characters like that to be nerfed.

I get that Rosalina has weaknesses. I just don't think those weaknesses are big enough, considering she is basically two extremely powerful characters in one (one of which can basically negate all projectiles). To be completely honest, I think it's really self centered to ask for buffs for a character like Rosalina. I don't mean to sound inflammatory, but it really is.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's not like I'm asking to make Rosalina's attacks stronger here. Speed improvements and attack power improvements are two different things.

 

[Xandercosm]

It's not like I'm asking to make Rosalina's attacks stronger here. Speed improvements and attack power improvements are two different things.

Mobility matters a ton in this game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Say all you want, but I've pretty much brought up my point.

Anyway, time to move on and find some other things to talk about, because I'm all done talking about Rosalina's air speed dilemma.

 

[Xandercosm]

Say all you want, but I've pretty much brought up my point.

Anyway, time to move on and find some other things to talk about, because I'm all done talking about Rosalina's air speed dilemma.

Yes. Let's stop discussing as pivotal a point as Rosalina's airspeed because you don't feel like it anymore.

 

[Bowserboy3]

It's funny how we even consider the fact that air speeds, running speeds etc can be changed now. Up until last patch, people thought that it would never happen.

It's interesting, because we all thought they were just focusing on character hitboxes and properties. With this, its possible they could even alter weights and the like.

 

[Xandercosm]

It's funny how we even consider the fact that air speeds, running speeds etc can be changed now. Up until last patch, people thought that it would never happen.

It's interesting, because we all thought they were just focusing on character hitboxes and properties. With this, its possible they could even alter weights and the like.

Hopefully Doc will get a weight buff.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Hopefully Doc will get a weight buff.

To be honest, that makes sense, seeing as his medical equipment is supposed to slow him down so to speak, so why his weight isn't slightly higher than Mario's makes no sense to me. Even if it is just a couple of units, at least it would make sense.

I personally would like to see a buff to either Doc's Jump Punch distance or reduce the endlag on his aerial Tornado so that he can act out of it almost instantly, though I think that the latter would be cooler. This way his recovery would be slightly better (mitigating one of his most noticeable flaws). It would also take a bit more skill to perform (not that button mashing is a huge skill anyway, but it's more so than simply pressing a button once).

 

[Xandercosm]

To be honest, that makes sense, seeing as his medical equipment is supposed to slow him down so to speak, so why his weight isn't slightly higher than Mario's makes no sense to me. Even if it is just a couple of units, at least it would make sense.

I personally would like to see a buff to either Doc's Jump Punch distance or reduce the endlag on his aerial Tornado so that he can act out of it almost instantly, though I think that the latter would be cooler. This way his recovery would be slightly better (mitigating one of his most noticeable flaws). It would also take a bit more skill to perform (not that button mashing is a huge skill anyway, but it's more so that simply pressing a button once).

I like your second suggestion. Giving Tornado almost no endlag would give Doc very unique combo options.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I like your second suggestion. Giving Tornado almost no endlag would give Doc very unique combo options.

I was just thinking about this too. I initially thought that it could give him pretty OP combo options, but on second thoughts no, because of the last hit. At low percents, he might be able to drag somebody into the air with it and use his double jump to continue a combo, because they won't get launched too far, but at high percents, they will get launched too far for any sort of reliable follow ups. So it could give him more combo options at low percents (as well as access to options Mario doesn't have, differentiating them more), and buff his recovery, allowing him to act sooner.

 

[FamilyTeam]

Do you know what else is sad? The overwhelming amount of hate Rosalina started receiving after her debut in Smash. Most of my friends despise her because of Smash. When we play Super Mario 3D World, no one wants to choose her. They go "No, not that b*tch". When we play Mario Kart 8 and she passes them, they're like "God, I can't stand her". I've seen similar comments on Twitter, especially during Genesis 3, where I saw many people rooting against Dabuz just because they didn't want to see Rosalina win. Too bad they don't get to see she's actually a very cool character, but whatever.

I have a few reasons.
Over the years, my opinion on the Mario series in general has massively soured, and then there's the fact I was always indifferent at best towards Rosalina, so the representation that Rosa got in the first few months of the game, alongside Dabuz's... "alternative" style of play was the straw that broke the camel's back, for me. Rosa was this unbalanced character from this series I didn't like played by a player I didn't appreciate - that's a recipe for disaster.
When I look at things objectively, I do realise Rosa isn't the nightmare she was at the start of the game; far from it. But the damage has been done. Subjectively, my mind can't like her anymore.
That doesn't mean I hate you for playing Rosa, but I still won't like the character, I'm sorry.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

All we need is a buff to the lasers and some of his throws to make falco actually a threat. Since people have pretty much given up on the Monado boy(except a top 20 player in California whose name I can't remember and Jerm. A buff to his areas and dash attack would be good, as well as giving him a combo throw. #Fixtheframes2016.

 

[Bowserboy3]

All we need is a buff to the lasers and some of his throws to make falco actually a threat. Since people have pretty much given up on the Monado boy(except a top 20 player in California whose name I can't remember and Jerm. A buff to his areas and dash attack would be good, as well as giving him a combo throw. #Fixtheframes2016.

Falco is known for having an above average set of throws, they are fine. Being realistic, I doubt they would let them autocancel, but really, I think lasers need to fire slightly quicker on the ground and have less endlag.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

Falco is known for having an above average set of throws, they are fine. Being realistic, I doubt they would let them autocancel, but really, I think lasers need to fire slightly quicker on the ground and have less endlag.

We need him back to his melee glory
I was estatic about falco in smash 4. I mained him in Melee and brawl, and he was GREAT! Now sakurai has clipped my bird . Although I do have a lot of fun with falco, he needs to be good again.