Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Ikes]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Project Quarantine]

Luigi -1
Pacman -1
Meta Knight +1
Little Mac +1
Wario +1

 

[Apeirohaon]

Luigi -1
Marth +1
Sonic +1
Link +1
Meta Knight +1

 

[TheUnknownMartin]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Toon612Link]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Lzuigi]

Spoiler

Its time (BUT SO EARLY) for the community voted tier list again! I did this for brawl over a period of a year and it became very popular with well over 1000 votes cast. I await the day the mods allow me to move this into the competitive forum where it belongs

For new players or those that didnt take part in the brawl one, I am a big fan of the iterative process instead of the vote > average > list process. Iteration is a slower process but allows for more refined adjustments for each and every character movement before the list is looked at as a whole, and the process is repeated. It is a holistic process, designed to make a tier list factoring in many aspects.

This is my method, it is long but it is comprehensive and fun for people who get involved.

All characters start at an equal rating for a clean slate and will move up and down every update. Ideally we want a rank of characters completely individual with no sharing of a position however multiple characters can occupy the same spot.

The rules are you can vote for 5 characters, + or - votes any way you want. +1 OR -1 VOTES ONLY. Characters that finish each round with + or - 3 or more votes in any direction will move. Characters that finish a round with + or - 10 votes will move 2 spaces. Characters are not ranked within tiers. Characters can not jump 2 ranks if that would create a gap in the tiers.

This is an example of the required reply to this thread. At this point in time the maximum amount of votes is FIVE per period. I will update the thread title when a new voting period begins.

DK +1
Yoshi +1
Ness -1
Mario -1
Little Mac -1

You are allowed to do any combination of + and – votes if you want, five +1 or five –1 votes is perfectly fine. Remember only +1 or -1 votes allowed! Base your votes on ANYTHING you want. This is a community list. If you think tourney results are all that matters, use them. If your scene has a lot of a certain character and you cant beat them, vote them up. Put characters where YOU think they should be, not where everyone else does.

Over time the tier list will spread out and characters will fit into their places.

We want to spread the list out so that every character is in their own position, we will worry about the grouping for tiers later and dont get complacent! Any character can be moved at any time with enough down votes.

A final note on phase one, at any time I can change the maximum required number of votes. It will usually be between 3 and 5, it starts off at 5 to get things moving.

Version 1.0 final list (Version 1.04-1.06)

Spoiler

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

ITS TIME FOR VERSION 2.0 OF THIS LIST, Starting at patch version 1.08

THIS IS CUSTOMS OFF

Version 2.05 July 1

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FAQ

Q) Can I vote +2, -3 etc.?
A) No, only + or -1 votes

Q) Why is [character] so low/high?
A) Because that's where they were voted in the last voting round, vote them where you think they should be!

Q) [Character] got enough votes but didnt move?
A) I may have made a mistake in the counting, let me know and I'll fix it. There is a lot of votes to go through.

Q) Is this customs legal?
A) For now, no. It depends if customs becomes the tournament standard. Since it is currently not, the list is customs off for the time being.

Q) Should I vote depending on what other people are voting on?
A) No! There is no point in people doing this since future votes can negate yours. Spend your votes on what YOU think needs them, not to counter out other peoples votes because usually, a counter vote will end up being wasted if you try to turn the tides in a popular movement.

+1 Luigi
+1 ZSS
+1 Little Mac
+1 Mario
-1 Ness

 

[Zerp]

+1 Luigi
+1 ZSS
+1 Little Mac
+1 Marth
-1 Lucina
+1 Yoshi
+1 Mario
-1 Ness

(Once again, I'm being that guy.... again)

You can only vote for five characters at a time, sorry.

 

[Lzuigi]

(Once again, I'm being that guy.... again)

You can only vote for five characters at a time, sorry.

Woops, didn't see that, fixed.

 

[Yikarur]

-1 Roy
+1 Palutena
+1 Marth
-1 Luigi
+1 Sheik

 

[Mystletaynn]

+1
-1
-1
+1
-1

 

[Wintermelon43]

(Once again, I'm being that guy.... again)

You can only vote for five characters at a time, sorry.

We need a society called the "That Guys". We need to take over the world. And you automatictially are killed when you vote more than 5

 

[Zylach]

For once, I actually think Zelda is in the right tier though I will look to mess around with the ordering of that tier when the time comes. As for movements:

+1 Seriously, people must not watch a lot of top level Megaman play. He deserves to be a lot higher.
-1 Robin does fairly well against characters that have mediocre mobility and no projectiles but even has some tough matchups in that respect. Just one tier down and they're right where they belong I think.
-1 Wow, those Falco buffs really hyped a lot of people up. Just one tier down for this guy because he still has some problems and I honestly can't see him being even with characters like Wario and Peach who are currently placed in the same tier with him.
-1 I've played one of the best (Perhaps the only) WFTs in Chicago and WFT does not belong quite that high. Just one tier down for her and she's good.
+1 Link's buffs ought to put him at least a tier higher. I've heard people question whether he goes even with Sheik now. IMO, he doesn't but he doesn't belong that low either. Top notch zoning game and kill confirms with huge range. His recovery isn't great and his frame data is a tad lacking but that doesn't mean he's this low.

 

[Diddy Kong]

+
-
-
+
+

 

[Wintermelon43]

+
-
-
+
+

+
+
-
-
-

Trying to sneak it in are you?

 

[robotic jo]

+1 - He is good at camping and has good approach options. Also, his edge guard ability is great with the best recovery in the game. He has projectiles, a spike, a pocket that can grab projectiles that has invincibility frames and has good match ups against some top tier characters.

+1 - The Doc may not have the speed and recovery for a top tier, but I think he can be played to his full potential.
-1 - Zero Skill Spamus has come once again. I reckon she should move down since all of her combos are way too predictable and can get punished easily by most characters.

+1 - A hugely under-rated character. Kirby has so many combos that can lead up to kills. His edge guard game is also good with his d-air spike and b-air that can kill off the stage. Also, his specials aren't that bad and he deserves about low top tier at least. Why do people hate this masterpiece so much?

+1 - Though he can get edge guarded easily, Yoshi has great things that make him a top tier. He has a projectile that you can control, decent recovery and a spike. Yoshi's combos are also great as well.

That's all I've found out so far.

 

[vegeta18]

lets put the clones in the right spots

+1
+1
-1
- 1

 

[Jaguar360]

+1 While he is combo food, a character with such great power, range and good options out of his fast dash (pivot f-tilt, Whirling Forretress, dash/pivot grabs) should not be in bottom tier.
+1 Recent buffs to jab, n-air and f-air make him stronger and he shouldn't be below Lucina at all.
-1 While I think she is viable like the others, she still belongs somewhere in bottom tier due to her slow mobility outside of Farore's Wind, lack of safe aerials, somewhat slow grab and mediocre projectiles.
+1 Ganondorf can never be counted out with his obscene power and k.o. options. Good range on his tilts, the priority on Wizard's Foot and a good command grab in Flame Choke give him some good tools to compete with on the ground. Dangerous edgeguarding potential as well.
+1 How did Megaman get down there? While his close range game is bad, his mid range zoning is on point and lemons give so many characters a hard time. He has good rewards out of grab too as well as good aerial mobility.

 

[Wintermelon43]

We should start the next round now.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

+1
-1
-1
-1
-1

 

[Ravine]

Peach + 1
Ryu -1
Duck Hunt +1
Diddy +1
ZSS +1

 

[T4ylor]

-1
+1
+1
+1
-1

 

[Dr. Bread]

Diddy kong -1, has this character placed first in a single tournament since the late nerfs? i honestly can't see this character as high tier right now, almost his whole moveset is characteristic of the bottom of mid tier other than his smash attacks and the banana.

Little Mac +1 this character suffers quite a lot because not only is he unable to travel offstage to apply pressure, but he also struggles immensely to return to neutral when offstage or in the air, even in a game where returning to neutral is relatively easy for most of the high-viability characters, but when he's not out of position, his ground-spacing is so explosively strong that you can lose just by letting him have stage control.

captain falcon -1, this character is consistently overrated because he's fast, strong, and does flashy things and... thats basically it? people overlook captain falcon's weaknesses so often, as well as the fact that falcon doesn't really... have that much potential as a character relatively speaking. He has super limited approaches, no defensive aerials, no kill options out of throw except on certain light characters out of a dash grab near the ledge within a very small window of percentages. Not to mention he gets a really unfavorable matchup against a lot of high-tier characters.

Marth -1
i dont know how its possible, but a character that everyone considers low-tier is still overrated. If i had a dollar for how many times i've heard the phrase "better than people think" about marth i'd be a twentyaire. His entire moveset except for his up-smash have taken hits from previous games, and most of his attacks have comparable end-lag to ike's... think about that for a moment. Not to mention his range is quite piddly for a character focused on spacing.

Lucas +1
I consider this character to be somewhat worse than Z-suit, but with better killing power and better spacing and defensive play. If this character had a normal grab, i'd probably go as far as putting him around ness's level, but having a tether grab means that his punish game is much weaker than ness's, even if he has such incredibly good throws and follow-ups.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[robotic jo]

+1

Another Kirby supporter!

 

[ミスティック Speed]

+1 Pit
-1 Dark Pit

Why the actual **** would Dark Pit be above Pit in a tier list? Come on guys, I may main him, but I know Pit is damn well better.

+1 Mewtwo
-1 Roy
+1 Yoshi

 

[Jiggly]

+1 Pit
-1 Dark Pit

Why the actual **** would he be above Pit in a tier list? Come on guys, I may main him, but I know Pit is damn well better.

+1 Mewtwo
-1 Roy
+1 Yoshi

Results? lol

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Results? lol

Results against whom? Rosaluma? And based upon what? Popularity?
Just because he has one favorable MU and is overall more widely used, it does not- by any means, make him better than Pit.

 

[shadowmm151]

Diddy kong -1, has this character placed first in a single tournament since the late nerfs? i honestly can't see this character as high tier right now, almost his whole moveset is characteristic of the bottom of mid tier other than his smash attacks and the banana.

Little Mac +1 this character suffers quite a lot because not only is he unable to travel offstage to apply pressure, but he also struggles immensely to return to neutral when offstage or in the air, even in a game where returning to neutral is relatively easy for most of the high-viability characters, but when he's not out of position, his ground-spacing is so explosively strong that you can lose just by letting him have stage control.

captain falcon -1, this character is consistently overrated because he's fast, strong, and does flashy things and... thats basically it? people overlook captain falcon's weaknesses so often, as well as the fact that falcon doesn't really... have that much potential as a character relatively speaking. He has super limited approaches, no defensive aerials, no kill options out of throw except on certain light characters out of a dash grab near the ledge within a very small window of percentages. Not to mention he gets a really unfavorable matchup against a lot of high-tier characters.

Marth -1
i dont know how its possible, but a character that everyone considers low-tier is still overrated. If i had a dollar for how many times i've heard the phrase "better than people think" about marth i'd be a twentyaire. His entire moveset except for his up-smash have taken hits from previous games, and most of his attacks have comparable end-lag to ike's... think about that for a moment. Not to mention his range is quite piddly for a character focused on spacing.

Lucas +1
I consider this character to be somewhat worse than Z-suit, but with better killing power and better spacing and defensive play. If this character had a normal grab, i'd probably go as far as putting him around ness's level, but having a tether grab means that his punish game is much weaker than ness's, even if he has such incredibly good throws and follow-ups.

I find this sort of funny. You complain that Diddy shouldn't be high tier since after the nerf he hasn't won a single tournament despite the fact that he has all the tools of a top or upper high tier character. So he has solid skills with less results now. What's funny though is that you think Diddy should be lower because of results, yet you want Falcon lower for the opposite. Falcon has numerous weaknesses, BUT he does win tournaments. In fact, a lot of people keep neglecting the fact that Falcon has results. It's especially funny because almost everyone's tier list has Pika in top 3-5 and Yoshi in top 6-10 yet Falcon keeps getting booted down to top 15 when he has more results than both of them combined. I feel that it's important to remember that while his defense is really weak, Falcon is has one of the strongest offenses in Smash 4. He can even pick up wins against safe characters. I mean think about it...Falcon can be down a stock and over a hundred and still win with a rage kill and then a fought for grab combo with a dair follow up...that's game right there.

Anyway, not really arguing, just something I thought was funny.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Results? lol

Pit and Dark Pit have like, equal results lol. All the Dark Pit mains use Pit a lot too, and vice versa.

 

[HerpFish]

+1 Pit
-1 Dark Pit

Why the actual **** would Dark Pit be above Pit in a tier list? Come on guys, I may main him, but I know Pit is damn well better.

+1 Mewtwo
-1 Roy
+1 Yoshi

Pit and Dark Pit are currently equal on this tier list due to the way the list is made. The only organization within tiers is when characters recently moved in to the tier, being placed before or after the other characters within the tier depending on where they came from.

 

[Macchiato]

+1

 

[Wintermelon43]

Pit and Dark Pit are currently equal on this tier list due to the way the list is made. The only organization within tiers is when characters recently moved in to the tier, being placed before or after the other characters within the tier depending on where they came from.

Dark Pit is actually higher, as ties go alphiebatactialy, and Wario is after Dark Pit, but before Pit.

 

[HerpFish]

Tiers are ranked in 3 different ways

At the top of a tier are the characters who were sent down to that tier, the bottom of the tier are characters who were voted up into that tier and everyone in between stayed there.

...

Therefore, characters that move tiers are actually ranked within tiers, but characters that dont move, arent. The net result is that overall the characters are NOT ranked within tiers, since usually half of them arent.

According to the one in charge of the votes and tier placement.

Wasn't there already discussion of this very issue earlier?

 

[Wintermelon43]

According to the one in charge of the votes and tier placement.

Wasn't there already discussion of this very issue earlier?

"At the top of a tier are the characters who were sent down to that tier, the bottom of the tier are characters who were voted up into that tier and everyone in between stayed there."

If no one voted for them, and we started sorting them into tiers, Dark Pit would always be considered above Pit no matter what, even if we can place ties in any order we want.

 

[Browny]

Was it not clear the first time? Characters are NOT ranked within tiers. I move characters to the top/bottom of tiers when they jump tiers because it would be completely wrong if for example, a character at the top of rank 3, gets a bump into rank 2 and I put them at the top of rank 2. Going up a tier means that you start at the bottom of that tier and when going backwards the opposite applies.

The point is characters are NOT ranked in tiers, not alphabetically or anything at all.

I'm updating this now.

 

[Dr. Bread]

I find this sort of funny. You complain that Diddy shouldn't be high tier since after the nerf he hasn't won a single tournament despite the fact that he has all the tools of a top or upper high tier character. So he has solid skills with less results now. What's funny though is that you think Diddy should be lower because of results, yet you want Falcon lower for the opposite. Falcon has numerous weaknesses, BUT he does win tournaments. In fact, a lot of people keep neglecting the fact that Falcon has results. It's especially funny because almost everyone's tier list has Pika in top 3-5 and Yoshi in top 6-10 yet Falcon keeps getting booted down to top 15 when he has more results than both of them combined. I feel that it's important to remember that while his defense is really weak, Falcon is has one of the strongest offenses in Smash 4. He can even pick up wins against safe characters. I mean think about it...Falcon can be down a stock and over a hundred and still win with a rage kill and then a fought for grab combo with a dair follow up...that's game right there.

Anyway, not really arguing, just something I thought was funny.

thats a good point but afaik falcon mains dont win any tournaments without extensive use of their secondaries, which is characteristic of characters who aren't all that.
not to mention im not sure there's been a case of a falcon even making it to top 8 in a national tournament, but i couldn't tell you 100%. gonna be real i mostly -1'd falcon because i honestly can't possibly see him as better than characters like mario, or villager for example.

as for diddy kong i do feel like he's now worse than falcon... or at least loses the matchup, considering it wasn't a **** matchup in 1.0.5 to begin with... it was in diddy's favor but it wasn't the worst **** in the world.

diddy's nerfs matter more than people on this board let on, the character has a much harder time keeping opponents from returning to neutral, and although diddy's neutral game is still above-average, his ability to keep opponents out of position is pretty weak compared to a lot of characters right now.
i mean i could be wrong about all of this im not even a diddy main but... yknow i'd be surprised if it weren't pretty much the case.

 

[Browny]

Trying to sneak it in are you?

Thank you for noticing this

@ Diddy Kong Please take note of the date in the OP, if you voted since then, go through the latest posts and make sure I havent updated before going again.

+1

You also voted twice, duplicate votes dont count.

Mewtwo Little Mac Sonic Yoshi +1
Ryu -1

UPDATED

FROM NOW ON IT IS ONLY 3 VOTES PER PERIOD.

I WILL ONLY COUNT THE FIRST 3 IF PEOPLE VOTE FOR 5. THIS IS TO SLOW THINGS DOWN AND LET THE LIST STABILISE A BIT. It will be easier for characters to move from now on, but each person gets three votes.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

1:

2:

3:

4:

5:

6:

7:

+1 He's still at 28, and barely went up. GREAT air attacks, GREAT smashes, GREAT Up tilt, GREAT comboing, good throws, good recovery,can use anyone's neutral special, ha great KO power with the hammer (Although it requires luck). Underated. Range isn't as bad as people say it is

+1 DOWN? I really take back not up voting him last time, GREAT comboing, GREAT damage, and good attacks in general

+1 Good camping with the Pikmin, Hard to ko for the same reason, and I think good speed as well.

 

[Macchiato]

+1

 

[kirby509]

+
+
+