Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[ShortcutButton]

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
D Tier:
E Tier:
F Tier:
G Tier:

Did I do it right?

 

[Luigi#1]

S
A+
A
B+
B
C
C-
D
F
It's neat and it gives the idea of how the characters are grouped more. The less the rows are, the more specific.
Fixing.
What I don't like about this setup, is say, you feel Ness should be in lower at the tier end. Because you feel ZSS is better. Even though they are on the same tier, Ness is basically guarenteed to be better then Samus. Thus the problem with the only 2 moves and the has to stay in order.

 

[CostLow]

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

S
A+
A
A-
B+
B
B-
C
D
F

 

[Browny]

What I don't like about this setup, is say, you feel Ness should be in lower at the tier end. Because you feel ZSS is better. Even though they are on the same tier, Ness is basically guarenteed to be better then Samus. Thus the problem with the only 2 moves and the has to stay in order.

I know, this method has its problems. But there is no real way to split the tiers that seems fair.

Ultimately, what I am doing here is actually the exact same way the smash back room breaks up tiers. they list every character from top to bottom and draw a line between them. that is what we are doing here.

There has to be hard line, definitive processes in place to lock the tiers into a certain shape and no matter which way we do it, its not going to seem fair. this method is what the smash back room does and it works well at sorting out tier shapes quickly.

 

[Anomilus]

S >>>
A+>>
A >>
B >>
C >>
D >>

I want the tier list condensed. I do not believe we're that far in our knowledge of character match-up data to have such a diverse tier list.

I would have liked to have condensed it down one more, but the current character placement just makes it too tough. I definitely don't agree with several character placements in my list, but this is only a vote for the shape of the tier list, not the content.

EDIT - Turns out I misunderstood what's going to happen next round. I thought we'd actually be deciding who we felt should still get bumped up or down one more tier. Sounds redundant, but it made sense in my head.

I now feel the list my list has to be as wide as possible. Ironically however, I can't do that either due to the current character order. Places where I feel should be given a split I can't do in good conscience because one or two characters would be put in a tier I don't think they deserve. =/

Seems unfortunately this tier list will not be satisfactory no matter how I vote. Oh well, hopefully Version 2 will have smarter considerations.

 

[Luigi#1]

Out of curiosity, what was the result of the Brawl community tier list?
Also, here's a list.

If you moved ZSS twice forward and Ness twice backwards, what would happen? Would it end up as

or

And if you move someone twice and they end up moving another place via someone else's move, is that allowed.
Sorry, I'm asking alot of questions. I don't expect answers to all of them. Sorry.
I do believe the tiers with over 6 characters should allow 3-4 spaces movable.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
D Tier:
E Tier:

I decided to bring 6 different tiers, however I will also admit that the difference in viability between S and E tiers are much smaller than any other Smash title.

 

[Luigi#1]

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
D Tier:
E Tier:

I decided to bring 6 different tiers, however I also admit that the difference in viability between S and E tiers are much smaller than any other Smash title.

I don't think we are allowed to move the characters around yet.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think we are allowed to move the characters around yet.

Read the OP, we can move each character one or two positions, if we so choose.

 

[Luigi#1]

Read the OP, we can move each character one or two positions, if we so choose.

I thought we were doing that after the tier list has been mended.
"We vote to break up the characters into about 5-8 tiers before voting on each tier, one at a time."
After the average tier ends have been figured out, we vote on how the tiers are. So first we are laying out the characters into specific groups.

 

[Xyrohip]

Uhm, not to be rude, but do you play meta knight? He isn't a laggy character, and his amazing damage output and kill power makes up for range (tornado does 20 damage and kills, cape kills at 80, F-smash kills at 70 from the ledge, a successful back air off the stage is guaranteed at 90%, etc). He is also fast, with good combos and a great recovery. He may not be top tier, but -1ing a character that's already on the bottom "cuz range and lag" ain't no reason to down vote this mhhhmmmm

Really Maz... Meta has had countless +1's you need yo stop getting hung up on every single -1 on Kirby / Meta Knight

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I thought we were doing that after the tier list has been mended.
"We vote to break up the characters into about 5-8 tiers before voting on each tier, one at a time."
After the average tier ends have been figured out, we vote on how the tiers are. So first we are laying out the characters into specific groups.

And how did moving characters around changed my vote? I looked at the list from the OP and, by taking the time of comparing it with my vote, it didn't break the order of the OP's list at all.

 

[Xyrohip]

S
A+
A
A-
B+
B
B-
C
D
F

I'm Coming for you

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And how did moving characters around changed my vote? I looked at the list from the OP and, by taking the time of comparing it with my vote, it didn't break the order of the OP's list at all.

Spoiler: Case in point!

The way I posted it

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
D Tier:
E Tier:

Same order as the OP list

S Tier:
A Tier:
B Tier:
C Tier:
D Tier:
E Tier:

 

[Xyrohip]

I'm really disappointed on how marth as gone so far down on the list. He used to be much higher on the list. I can see that he is not top tier but I believe he should be high C tier. He has an amazing recovery that allows him to gimp easily. I understand that the ability to air dodge without going into freefall makes this much more difficult. But I personally think he should be higher on the list. I am in no way telling people how to vote but I am simply trying to shine a light on how good Marth really is.

 

[Luigi#1]

And how did moving characters around changed my vote? I looked at the list from the OP and, by taking the time of comparing it with my vote, it didn't break the order of the OP's list at all.

If your saying it's in the same order, I'm pretty sure Fox, Rosalina, Zamus, Brawler, R.O.B., Greninja, Robin, Wario, Kirby, Jigglypuff, PacMan, Metaknight, Gaondorf, Lucina, Falco, Dedede, Little Mac, Bowser J.R., Wii Fit Trainer, Palutena, and Gunner.
If that's what you mean, we still need to get the right break ups in tiers before changing the character positions. This is the voting period for the splits in the tier list, so it's to find where most of the splits in the tiers occurs. Example, Shiek may be the most common character to be split from her tier group, or Sonic from the next one down, etc.
By changing the order now, it's harder to find the average.The individual tiers will be made after the splits are decided.

 

[Hyperkirby013]

+1 Kirby
+1 Dr.Maro
+1 Falco
+1 Yoshi

 

[CostLow]

I think that the character placement is already decided, as in +1/-1 voting is done for now. Now it's just a matter of taking the order that they're in to make the tiers more precise.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Really Maz... Meta has had countless +1's you need yo stop getting hung up on every single -1 on Kirby / Meta Knight

Really Xyro... Stop trying to "shine a light" on Marth just accept that he's bad

 

[MrGame&Rock]

- S
- A+
- A
- A-
- B+
- B
- B-
- C
- F

Same placement as @ CostLow but with actual tier names

 

[Xyrohip]

Really Xyro... Stop trying to "shine a light" on Marth just accept that he's bad

Really Maz... Just accept that Kirby's bad. If you really want to do this back and forth I'm up to it. And for the record my marth beats ur meta knight.

 

[Luigi#1]

"Here we go again!"

 

[AirJordans]

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Really Maz... Just accept that Kirby's bad. If you really want to do this back and forth I'm up to it. And for the record my marth beats ur meta knight.

Really Xyro... Just accept that your Mario's bad. If you really wanna to this back and forth I'm up to it. And for the record my Olimar is better than your Samus (lol) (EDIT: and what was that about me 2 stocking your Marth as MK? mhm)
BTW anyone who is wondering, Xyro and I are irl friends do this trash talk isn't only online >

 

[AirJordans]

BTW anyone who is wondering, Xyro and I are irl friends do this trash talk isn't only online >

haha I was totally starting to wonder if this was some drama going down or what

 

[Xyrohip]

Really Xyro... Just accept that your Mario's bad. If you really wanna to this back and forth I'm up to it. And for the record my Olimar is better than your Samus (lol) (EDIT: and what was that about me 2 stocking your Marth as MK? mhm)
BTW anyone who is wondering, Xyro and I are irl friends do this trash talk isn't only online >

My Mario beats all ur mains. Same with my Sonic

 

[Raijinken]

SS
S
A+
A
A-
B
C
D
F

Since it's too late to influence the order, despite my misgivings on the final rankings, I feel I'll sort it thus, with anything A- and above being what I'd call "Viable." Not that I don't feel DK and Palutena and BJ aren't viable, but since I can't change orders, that's how it's gotta be.

I still feel DK is above Mac, both Links, Bowser, Dog, Pac, and Puff should be above Wario, and G&W should still be just above Swordfighter.

 

[jaketheknight]

God:
Diamond:
Gold:
Silver:
Bronze:
Tin:
Wood:
Dirt:

 

[The_SuperiorTaste]

 

[Xyrohip]

Can someone give me some references on the current voting format? I'm aware the whole +1 system system is out for now. But I'm not sure on the "rules" concerning the current system. For example aside from separating tiers into sections are we allowed to move characters around in their respective tier ranks? Or even move a few characters up or down one tier rank?

 

[Luigi#1]

Can someone give me some references on the current voting format? I'm aware the whole +1 system system is out for now. But I'm not sure on the "rules" concerning the current system. For example aside from separating tiers into sections are we allowed to move characters around in their respective tier ranks? Or even move a few characters up or down one tier rank?

We aren't suppose to change the character positions until the tier list splits are made. So just make splits.

 

[aquaticpineapples]

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:
F:

 

[H.O.U.S.E.]

It hurts me to put Charizard and the Mii Gunner so low and Meta Knight and Pit so high, but still, this is how I think the tiers should be divided

S tier: (the best)
A+ tier:Closest to the best)
A tier: (Very good characters)
A- tier: (Good characters)
B+ tier: (Viable characters)
B tier: (Viable, but not as good)
B- tier: (Somewhat viable in capable hands)
C+ tier: (While not bad, not that good either)
C tier: (Bad, but have potential)
C- tier: (Bad characters)
D tier: (Mii Swordfighter)

 

[Anomilus]

Can I move the characters up or down 2 positions? If not, please tell me and I'll edit my post later

No, that part comes later.

Basically if you have the following:
You cannot switch these characters around. You can do this:

1st 2nd
3rd

...Or this

1st
2nd 3rd

...Or whatever. But don't actually switch any character's place (i.e. - 1st 2nd 3rd).

Right now the goal is deciding when the tier list splits to the next grade. After that we'll be re-ordering each group of characters within each tier (but no character will jump tiers at this point).

Posting this for anybody else who might be a bit confused on what to do.

 

[HeavyMetalSonic]

Uhm, not to be rude, but do you play meta knight? He isn't a laggy character, and his amazing damage output and kill power makes up for range (tornado does 20 damage and kills, cape kills at 80, F-smash kills at 70 from the ledge, a successful back air off the stage is guaranteed at 90%, etc). He is also fast, with good combos and a great recovery. He may not be top tier, but -1ing a character that's already on the bottom "cuz range and lag" ain't no reason to down vote this mhhhmmmm

Actually, yeah, I did, and I also practice alot with a friend who mains him (He deliberately chooses poor characters, and he acknowledges that Metaknight is garbage in this game compared to his Brawl self).

His range is notoriously poor. It got majorly nerfed and it really shows. You literally need to have Metaknight's nose firmly up someone's a** to be able to hit them with the majority of his moves. It's literally laughable.

Most of his moves are nowhere near as good lagwise as they used to be. Up B? Have fun missing and being put into a helpless, falling state.. Down B? Lag out the a**, easily punishable. His smashes aren't that laggy in comparison, but again, range means you have to space and wait for an opening/mistake constantly to get a chance to kill, then hope you don't get shielded and punished because he hasn't exactly got the best frame data across the cast.

As for his kill power and DPS, I never mentioned that. I know he has decent power, infact when my friend KO's me at a really low %, I quite often raise an eyebrow and say "Did that really just kill me?"

Infact I barely posted a sentence about each vote I made, it's not like I pulled out a spread sheet and compared all his frame data, strengths, tricks and quirks. It was VERY quickly thrown together, and as Forty4 says...

Well technically, the OP stated that one can upvote or downvote a character for any reason. For example, if I think Falcon's crotch bulge is too big (which it is), I can -1 him.

It's just my opinion (Just like Forty4's opinion on Falcon's crotch, which I disagree with, he has a mighty fine crotch, but that's his opinion, and I'm cool with that).

I tried to use him and got incredibly frustrated by those factors, which is why I mentioned them. Everyone has their own playstyles, and there is only so much you can bend your own playstyle to compliment that of a character. For example, Little Mac, he isn't for everyone, not by a long shot, which is why some people stand firmly by him while others consider him awful.

But I only have 3 votes, and Metaknight was the first character that came to my head when I thought of bad characters. And just because I think he's bad, doesn't mean he's garbage compared to the rest of the cast. He has his ups and downs, I main Sonic, and I know he has his downsides, if he didn't have downsides he'd be top of the tier list. He's good, but not perfect. Metaknight on the otherhand quite clearly isn't as good as some of the rest of the cast (but still usable), hence the -1.

TL;DR: It was 1 vote that was quickly thrown together. Chill your beans. c:

 

[H.O.U.S.E.]

But don't actually switch any character's place

Right now the goal is deciding when the tier list splits to the next grade. After that we'll be re-ordering each group of characters within each tier (but no character will jump tiers at this point).

Posting this for anybody else who might be a bit confused on what to do.

Thanks, I just fixed my post. But it pains me to see Lizardon so low. He has so much potential.

 

[Anomilus]

Thanks, I just fixed my post. But it pains me to see Lizardon so low. He has so much potential.

Indeed. I actually misunderstood part of the rules while trying to help you, and I had to go reconsider my tier spit vote. Unfortunately I can't make any changes I would approve. For example, I think a split should happen right after Villager, but somehow Mega Man ended up after Greninja. Can't split Greninja away without pulling Mega Man down with him. =(

 

[Ze Diglett]

lol

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Actually, yeah, I did, and I also practice alot with a friend who mains him (He deliberately chooses poor characters, and he acknowledges that Metaknight is garbage in this game compared to his Brawl self).

His range is notoriously poor. It got majorly nerfed and it really shows. You literally need to have Metaknight's nose firmly up someone's a** to be able to hit them with the majority of his moves. It's literally laughable.

Most of his moves are nowhere near as good lagwise as they used to be. Up B? Have fun missing and being put into a helpless, falling state.. Down B? Lag out the a**, easily punishable. His smashes aren't that laggy in comparison, but again, range means you have to space and wait for an opening/mistake constantly to get a chance to kill, then hope you don't get shielded and punished because he hasn't exactly got the best frame data across the cast.

As for his kill power and DPS, I never mentioned that. I know he has decent power, infact when my friend KO's me at a really low %, I quite often raise an eyebrow and say "Did that really just kill me?"

Infact I barely posted a sentence about each vote I made, it's not like I pulled out a spread sheet and compared all his frame data, strengths, tricks and quirks. It was VERY quickly thrown together, and as Forty4 says...



It's just my opinion (Just like Forty4's opinion on Falcon's crotch, which I disagree with, he has a mighty fine crotch, but that's his opinion, and I'm cool with that).

I tried to use him and got incredibly frustrated by those factors, which is why I mentioned them. Everyone has their own playstyles, and there is only so much you can bend your own playstyle to compliment that of a character. For example, Little Mac, he isn't for everyone, not by a long shot, which is why some people stand firmly by him while others consider him awful.

But I only have 3 votes, and Metaknight was the first character that came to my head when I thought of bad characters. And just because I think he's bad, doesn't mean he's garbage compared to the rest of the cast. He has his ups and downs, I main Sonic, and I know he has his downsides, if he didn't have downsides he'd be top of the tier list. He's good, but not perfect. Metaknight on the otherhand quite clearly isn't as good as some of the rest of the cast (but still usable), hence the -1.

TL;DR: It was 1 vote that was quickly thrown together. Chill your beans. c:

It's a salty rant post, I wasn't actually mad lol. But in my opinion is that Meta Knights combo and kill game is way too strong to be low tier. He is also fast, which is basically needed in this game.

I agree with most of your points, but up-b's hitboxes is so big, that if you get good at timing you'll never miss. And down-b IS laggy, but that's why you go battlefield so they can't punish you as hard

Sorry if I came off the wrong way lol