Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Columbidae]

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+1
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[Djmarcus44]

Mewtwo is not midtier, a character with the best air dodge, excellent aerials, excellent mobility, powerful attacks, good disadvantage and advantage state, and good neutral, saying that mewtwo is midtier because of weight, is same as saying that
is midtier because of bad recovery, well i should voting then:

+1
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While I agree that Mewtwo is a good character, I still think that Mewtwo's disadvantage state is substandard relative to the rest of the cast. Besides Mewtwo's light weight, this character has a relatively big hurtbox and lacks a combo breaker (Mewtwo's above average fall speed also makes the character easier to combo). While Mewtwo's airdodge helps him avoid juggling and some 50/50's, it is not enough to make up for the character's other disadvantages. Mewtwo's disadvantage state is substandard because this character is relatively easy to hit, combo, and kill.

 

[420quickscoper]

Mewtwo is mid tier becaus she does not have any major results

Uh...
I mean, sure Mewtwo hasn't really won anything huge.
But keep in mind it's only been a few months after he got the buff.
And he has very notable feats like LoF Blue taking a set from Nairo.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Uh...
I mean, sure Mewtwo hasn't really won anything huge.
But keep in mind it's only been a few months after he got the buff.
And he has very notable feats like LoF Blue taking a set from Nairo.

However, those buffs were around the same time Cloud was out, and Bayo was even later and still has a feat of beating Nairo. Cloud has had amazing results everywhere and has won many Japan tourneys if my sources are correct.

 

[420quickscoper]

However, those buffs were around the same time Cloud was out, and Bayo was even later and still has a feat of beating Nairo. Cloud has had amazing results everywhere and has won many Japan tourneys if my sources are correct.

And what does Cloud have to do with Mewtwo...?
Yep. Nothing.
Cloud is not Mewtwo.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

And what does Cloud have to do with Mewtwo...?
Yep. Nothing.
Cloud is not Mewtwo.

They're both dlc characters who people wanted in Smash...that's it

 

[Minty_]

-1
-1
+1
+1
+1

 

[MockRock]

A lot of this latest list seems pretty reasonable. But... why exactly are Wario and R.O.B. so low? Aren't they generally agreed to be quite good characters?

 

[Deleted member]

A lot of this latest list seems pretty reasonable. But... why exactly are Wario and R.O.B. so low? Aren't they generally agreed to be quite good characters?

The list was restarted with everybody on the same tier. They'll probably go up next revision considering people have voted them up the past few pages.

 

[MockRock]

The list was restarted with everybody on the same tier. They'll probably go up next revision considering people have voted them up the past few pages.

Ah, that makes sense, thanks.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

+1,,,
-1

 

[ShadowGuy1]

And what does Cloud have to do with Mewtwo...?
Yep. Nothing.
Cloud is not Mewtwo.

Sigh, I said that Because you said Mewtwo does not have any major results because of the time of his buffs, but Cloud was released at the same time and got good results at G3

 

[T4ylor]

+Has already proven he's at least on par with Rosalina's viability.
+Same as above (albeit less so).
-Esam carries Pikachu and he isn't performing as well as he hypes him up.
-Decent character, but where are his strong results?
-Think he belongs just outside the top 8. Everyone's doing decently well with him, but not spectacularly so.

 

[Bowserboy3]

+Has already proven he's at least on par with Rosalina's viability.
+Same as above (albeit less so).

IMO, you've got this back to front. I'd actually say that Bayonetta is more on Rosalina's level than Cloud, with him being "less so".

 

[Deleted member]

I'm so anxious to vote lmao

I really hope people will stop being so uneducated and sleeping on and though. The latter isn't even close to bottom 10 with the kind of results she has.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I really hope people will stop being so uneducated and sleeping on and though. The latter isn't even close to bottom 10 with the kind of results she has.

What results? I'd be more inclined to say Palutena isn't bottom tier if she was at least somewhat common as a backup or something, but she's practically nonexistant in the customs-off scene.

If she's "not even close to bottom 10 with the kind of results she has", then what are her results? If she isn't making Top 50 or so in a tournament on a consistent basis, I don't think she can be considered anything close to not a bad character. You at least see Jiggly and Ganon once in a blue moon in non-customs tourneys, but Palutena is even rarer than that!

Again, where are the results to prove her as not being trash? She's got good points, absolutely...but if that isn't backed up by good and consistent placement in tournaments, then what do those good points even matter for? Tier lists aren't about the characters themselves, they never have and never will be; tier lists are about the viability of characters taking major tournaments.

And as much as I push Charizard to be mid-tier, I know he'll never be high-tier, at least not without serious changes to how he plays so that he'll be able to more consistently take major tournaments. But again, at least Charizard can be seen in majors. Not incredibly often, but he's not so scarce that he's been considered the worst character in the game. Palutena is almost never seen at a major, and when she is, those players rarely take big spots. Same with Jigglypuff, but slightly less bad (because of Hungrybox at least repping Jiggly in major Smash 4 tournaments).

Same with Lucina; if this were Melee Marth she was cloned from, Lucina would definitely have been A-tier. But she's not, and she's instead cloned from the worst incarnation of Marth in Smash to date, and she lacks his saving grace to boot. There was no chance in Hell of her being anything but garbage. At least Doc and Dark Pit were cloned from good characters and so are at least decent. Lucina is a trashier version of an already trash character.

May as well throw in that I think Charizard and Doc should both move above Bowser Jr, since I don't recall many people not from Japan using him. At least Charizard and Doc have people consistently using them and managing to place decently in majors; but I don't recall any Bowser Jr.'s placing extremely well in American tournaments.

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[Douglas Jay Ganon]

+
+
-(let's make that tier 2 dissapear)
-(let's make that tier 2 dissapear)
+

 

[Jaypen7]

What results? I'd be more inclined to say Palutena isn't bottom tier if she was at least somewhat common as a backup or something, but she's practically nonexistant in the customs-off scene.

If she's "not even close to bottom 10 with the kind of results she has", then what are her results? If she isn't making Top 50 or so in a tournament on a consistent basis, I don't think she can be considered anything close to not a bad character. You at least see Jiggly and Ganon once in a blue moon in non-customs tourneys, but Palutena is even rarer than that!

Again, where are the results to prove her as not being trash? She's got good points, absolutely...but if that isn't backed up by good and consistent placement in tournaments, then what do those good points even matter for? Tier lists aren't about the characters themselves, they never have and never will be; tier lists are about the viability of characters taking major tournaments.

And as much as I push Charizard to be mid-tier, I know he'll never be high-tier, at least not without serious changes to how he plays so that he'll be able to more consistently take major tournaments. But again, at least Charizard can be seen in majors. Not incredibly often, but he's not so scarce that he's been considered the worst character in the game. Palutena is almost never seen at a major, and when she is, those players rarely take big spots. Same with Jigglypuff, but slightly less bad (because of Hungrybox at least repping Jiggly in major Smash 4 tournaments).

Same with Lucina; if this were Melee Marth she was cloned from, Lucina would definitely have been A-tier. But she's not, and she's instead cloned from the worst incarnation of Marth in Smash to date, and she lacks his saving grace to boot. There was no chance in Hell of her being anything but garbage. At least Doc and Dark Pit were cloned from good characters and so are at least decent. Lucina is a trashier version of an already trash character.

May as well throw in that I think Charizard and Doc should both move above Bowser Jr, since I don't recall many people not from Japan using him. At least Charizard and Doc have people consistently using them and managing to place decently in majors; but I don't recall any Bowser Jr.'s placing extremely well in American tournaments.

I can't say anything about Palutena but Lucina isn't garbage anymore at least. But first let me say Marth is the worst of his incarnations in Smash, but he isn't bad. Her aerials all got damage buffs, which on average does more damage than Marths(If you average out the tipped and not-tipped damage), she has more range, her jab1 is now even easier to string with, Lucina has some strings that she can do easier than Marth can(and vice-versa), and finally she got range buff on her aerials. Now we can actually say Lucina can rack up damage a little better than Marth can. Both of them are better at edge-guarding as well, since they can actually kill at around 110-140(Marth-Lucina) at the ledge and even earlier off stage. Also, Marth mains have been starting to perform pretty well at recent tournaments at least compared to before the buff.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

I can't say anything about Palutena but Lucina isn't garbage anymore at least. But first let me say Marth is the worst of his incarnations in Smash, but he isn't bad. Her aerials all got damage buffs, which on average does more damage than Marths(If you average out the tipped and not-tipped damage), she has more range, her jab1 is now even easier to string with, Lucina has some strings that she can do easier than Marth can(and vice-versa), and finally she got range buff on her aerials. Now we can actually say Lucina can rack up damage a little better than Marth can. Both of them are better at edge-guarding as well, since they can actually kill at around 110-140(Marth-Lucina) at the ledge and even earlier off stage. Also, Marth mains have been starting to perform pretty well at recent tournaments at least compared to before the buff.

Again, that's primarily because of the buff.

In the base Smash 4, without any patches (ie: how Melee and Brawl operated), we'd consider Smash 4 Marth and Lucina to be garbage. It's only thanks to patches that they've recently doing pretty decently, and even then they pale in comparison to Melee Marth.

Imagine a game between and . That MU would almost certainly be 90:10 or worse in Melee Marth's favor, because Sm4sh Marth just has far less kill power than his Melee counterpart. It's like pitting Melee Pichu against Smash 4 Shiek. Hell, put , and in Smash 4 and I assure you that and would be dropping straight to bottom tier. They aren't good, especially compared to characters like , , and .

 

[Jaypen7]

Again, that's primarily because of the buff.

In the base Smash 4, without any patches (ie: how Melee and Brawl operated), we'd consider Smash 4 Marth and Lucina to be garbage. It's only thanks to patches that they've recently doing pretty decently, and even then they pale in comparison to Melee Marth.

Imagine a game between and . That MU would almost certainly be 90:10 or worse in Melee Marth's favor, because Sm4sh Marth just has far less kill power than his Melee counterpart. It's like pitting Melee Pichu against Smash 4 Shiek. Hell, put , and in Smash 4 and I assure you that and would be dropping straight to bottom tier. They aren't good, especially compared to characters like , , and .

Oh I thought you were trying to say they were bad now. Well yeah, Marth was really bad when the game first came out and Lucina only stopped being bad this patch. And I wasn't trying to say that they were good per say, but they aren't bad either.

 

[DMWN]

come on daddy Browny
don't mind them stragglers

 

[Browny]

Sorry, yeah I got caught up with work last few days staying up way late, updating now.

cloud roy lucina +1
pikachu ryu -1

UPDATED

I am also now attempting to rank characters within tiers. Basically anyone who gets +4, +3 or -2 in their total votes will move within the tier around any characters that for within -1 or +2 range

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

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+1Too low in his tier

-1This absoluty NEEDS to happen for this list to be decent.

-1 He IS a high tier, but he isn't this good, bad matchups and theory isn't good enough to be that high

+1 I just... *facepalm*

+1 (We can vote both at once, right?) Second/third best high tiers imo (first is Greninja). Way better than Corrin and Captain Falcon for sure. Better than Wario too. And most likely Yoshi. They have good results from Earth, great theory, no bad matchup apart from ZSS, and is average overall in everything which makes it perfectly balanced.

Other thoughts:

Wii fit Trainer and Robin are too low too, like Mega Man

Corrin isn't this high, in fact Corrin is the worst high tier imo.

Jigglypuff isn't the worst, at least above Zelda and Ganondorf

Customs on Mii Brawler is at least tier 5.

Bowser Jr. isn't THAT bad.

King Dedede isn't bottom 5

Pac-Man and Rob are better than Lucario.

Cloud should be higher in his tier.

This is actually starting to look like a good tiers with some major flaws, which is great. Fix those flaws and it's solid.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

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+()
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+1 I just... *facepalm*

+1 (We can vote both at once, right?) Second/third best high tiers imo (first is Greninja). Way better than Corrin and Captain Falcon for sure. Better than Wario too. And most likely Yoshi. They have good results from Earth, great theory, no bad matchup apart from ZSS, and is average overall in everything which makes it perfectly balanced.

I love you M8

 

[Wintermelon43]

+()
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I love you M8

Crap..... This is the second time today that a boy has said to me "I love you"

 

[Ze Diglett]

-1
-1
-1
+1
-1(#EliminateTier8)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Crap..... This is the second time today that a boy has said to me "I love you"

I hope we meant the same sort of love then

 

[Wintermelon43]

I hope we meant the same sort of love then

I would reply but I don't want to get infracted....

 

[lbrasz44]

+ I believe it is safe to say that he is within the top 10 in this game. He has the tools of a top 10 character, the consistent results are absolutely remarkable
+ He's not bottom 10 bad whatsoever. Tweek dropping him does pretty much wreck his meta however
+ Zelda is worse
- Pretty much the best grounded fighter, but he requires absolutely little to no mistakes in play, as the moment he's in disadvantage he has practically lost his stock
- I see him as more high mid. Pretty much due to how the character is hardly existing in the first place, so it's hard to stake a top 20 claim based almost on theory alone

 

[Djmarcus44]

+1
+ 1
+ 1
+ 1
+ 1

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

+1 Still not high enough for the crazy stuff he can do. He doesn't get as much rep anymore, but Zage recently got to Grand Finals at Xanadu with him, so that's something.
+1 Why did he fall? Hyuga is still showing him lots of love, and he's definitely got a big edge on his realistic counterpart.
+1 Seriously, people. Notice that customs are ON for Miis already.
+1 His throw got nerfed a bit, but Koo Pah still works (especially with rage), he still has a combo throw that can lead to tons of damage, and his other buffs have helped him.
-1 His basic character concept already sinks him, as having less power at the end of his range makes things worse, especially for approaching. Couple that with no other means of playing the neutral and a lackluster recovery and you have a character that won't be going far in the meta game.

 

[wedl!!]

wow its so welcoming to see homophobia, really brightens up my day

anyways:
+1
-1

 

[Deleted member]

-
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+
+
+

 

[LRodC]

+
+
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[Bowserboy3]

Ok, to start off, I am voting (votes subject to change)

-1
-1
+1
+1
+1:Temporary. Debatable, yes. However, he's been doing a lot more than all around him (arguably the only character who has been doing as much is Mewtwo). After the buffs he got, he also gained a lot more players, of which are starting to place better with him now. Mainly an attempt to push him up to approximately dead center of the list/push him closer to Mewtwo, who I feel is fine also where he is).

 

[Tizio Random]

+1
+1
+1
-1
-1

 

[Zerp]

Spoiler: Reference

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Spoiler: On Hyrule + Tier 2.0

I'm going to have to take a moment to just appreciate the amazing work put into making the Hyrule + tier flip from last game, to . Isn't it awesome that instead of just doing the lame and easy thing by buffing them up into higher tiers, they decided to make sure to give them just enough changes to perfectly swap places with each other while still being at the bottom? It's cool they still gave them a few changes while making sure they knew their place. Especially with Jigglypuff, they get a A+ for effort, the character was designed so well they needed to nerf half the things from Brawl and didn't need to buff the character in patches even once to get them in their position, bravo! I appreciate that they kept the dirty bottom tier trash characters in their rightful place while putting in just enough token changes that made people think you cared.

-1 I do not believe he is stronger than Kirby, Marth, Etc.
+1 I believe he should go up a tier or at least lead his current one.
-1 I don't think she's better than anyone in the tier below her.
-1 I strongly doubt he's better than Ryu and Pikachu.
+1 I personally think he's a bit better than Lucina, Little Mac and Swordfighter.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler: On Hyrule + Tier 2.0

I'm going to have to take a moment to just appreciate the amazing work put into making the Hyrule + tier flip from last game, to . Isn't it awesome that instead of just doing the lame and easy thing by buffing them up into higher tiers, they decided to make sure to give them just enough changes to perfectly swap places with each other while still being at the bottom? It's cool they still gave them a few changes while making sure they knew their place. Especially with Jigglypuff, they get a A+ for effort, the character was designed so well they needed to nerf half the things from Brawl and didn't need to buff the character in patches even once to get them in their position, bravo! I appreciate that they kept the dirty bottom tier trash characters in their rightful place while putting in just enough token changes that made people think you cared.

If signatures allowed enough space to fit this, this would be on my signature. This was hilarious (In a good way)

 

[Galgatha]

somebody had to bring up the whole "homophobia" crap, as if there isnt enough of that PC stuff in the world, now we bring it to a game form....nice.

Anyway moving on, my sporadic votes:

+
-
-
+
+

 

[TMNTSSB4]

somebody had to bring up the whole "homophobia" crap, as if there isnt enough of that PC stuff in the world, now we bring it to a game form....nice.

Anyway moving on, my sporadic votes:

+
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+
+

Dude its 2016, you're gonna hear the "something is totally gay" **** all the time(wrestling, kid shows, video games; you can't escape it)