Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[TSmasher1000]

Just collated most of the votes to decide who I want to use my second vote on... hoo boy. I'm not gonna say what they are, but unless quite a few of you want to Up Vote DK, don't bother wasting your vote on him.

Secondly, I see lots of Meta Knight up votes. I understand he is good, but is he REALLY that good to be in tier 2?

Meta Knight's pretty good. He's got one of the best punish games with his dash attacks into u-airs that can potentially kill like ZSS. He's also got pretty good aerials in general for killing and comboing. It's also funny just how almost all of his moves can convert to u-air to start juggling and killing. He's got even to good MUs with Sheik and a good MU against Rosaluma. For being good against two of the best 4 fighters in the game, that's pretty good.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Meta Knight's pretty good. He's got one of the best punish games with his dash attacks into u-airs that can potentially kill like ZSS. He's also got pretty good aerials in general for killing and comboing. It's also funny just how almost all of his moves can convert to u-air to start juggling and killing. He's got even to good MUs with Sheik and a good MU against Rosaluma. For being good against two of the best 4 fighters in the game, that's pretty good.

Hmm, I suppose, though I do agree with the thing about the Rosalina matchup, as I main Rosalina. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it all that hard to SDI and DI out of his Up Air juggles. Gotta hand it to him though, if he does manage to get them on you, it can kill at a pretty decent percent. I still don't think he has everything to hang with tier 2 though, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Vexx_]

()

-1

+1

Some thoughts i had:

- Luigi got nerfed, it's true, but was not that hard as everyone thinks. I think he could be in Tier 2, below Mario.
- Ryu is pretty good. No other character in any Smash Bros had his kind of gameplay. I think he is still underdeveloped and could easily grow in the metagame.

 

[Vyrnx]

+
-

People are putting Villager awfully low in their lists. People argue that he's perceived as good just because of Ranai... Consistent national results is a perfectly good reason to place a character high on tiers. Yes, it's because of Ranai. He has the best results of tier 3 no exceptions, but it's easier for me to look at Ryu and DK and say they don't belong in the same tier as these other characters, so I voted for them.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Need I repeat, why does deserve to go down more than, say, or possibly ? He's much more of a scary opponent than the those two, as he's got the projectiles worthy of a fantastic spacing game and plenty of kill setups. Contrarily, DK only reliably kills with Bair unless he gets a Ding Dong from a platform, and Peach doesn't really have much success as far as I've been made aware of. (And no, I don't have main bias. When I was maining Pac-Man a while back, I thought he was bad until I saw what he was capable of.)

Please, no one else downvote him. Tier 3 is a perfect fit for him. He's definitely not as bad as those in Tier 4.

 

[Dcas]

()


+1


Damnit this tier 4 went to hell .

 

[aεrgiα]

+
-

People are putting Villager awfully low in their lists. People argue that he's perceived as good just because of Ranai... Consistent national results is a perfectly good reason to place a character high on tiers. Yes, it's because of Ranai. He has the best results of tier 3 no exceptions, but it's easier for me to look at Ryu and DK and say they don't belong in the same tier as these other characters, so I voted for them.

i mean its not just national results, there are quite a few villagers that perform well at regional level... but i find the whole "character x is only doing well because of player y" pretty stupid in the first place, i mean look at the top characters in this tier list, they are all characters played by the players who perform best on a national level... the only exception being sonic who has good results but not amazing(unless u count japan, but u know... they have a COMPLETELY different meta, i mean they only allow bf,fd(Ω), smashville, tc and lylat(afaik at least) and thats pretty much the only difference in rulesets but u know, "completely different" -_-) but enough of ranting, my votes were exactly the same(vill would go up if dk werent in this tier).

every time i see ranais matches i dont see someone vastly outplaying their opponent but someone using the tools their character has in the right situations, i mean people say ranai is the only reason japan thinks of villager so highly but arent nairo/esam/dabuz the reason america thinks of zss/pika/rosa so highly?
watch the matches and look at what the players are doing, it should be pretty easy to see whether its the player outplaying the other or whether its the player applying the tools their character has in the right situation because in the end, arent the tools/options a character has what dictates how good they are? when i watch ranai i can see the guy has spent a lot of time in the lab with his character and/or knows what tools he has and when to use them, but maybe im just riding the "hype train" :/

 

[Rinku リンク]

Need I repeat, why does deserve to go down more than, say, or possibly ? He's much more of a scary opponent than the those two, as he's got the projectiles worthy of a fantastic spacing game and plenty of kill setups. Contrarily, DK only reliably kills with Bair unless he gets a Ding Dong from a platform, and Peach doesn't really have much success as far as I've been made aware of. (And no, I don't have main bias. When I was maining Pac-Man a while back, I thought he was bad until I saw what he was capable of.)

Please, no one else downvote him. Tier 3 is a perfect fit for him. He's definitely not as bad as those in Tier 4.

I'd argue that Pac-man takes the most skill to play out of everyone in tier 3 which may be why people are down voting him.

 

[Equin0x]

I'd argue that Pac-man takes the most skill to play out of everyone in tier 3 which may be why people are down voting him.

Id argue that Ryu takes as much if not slightly more skill than PAC-MAN, I agree with your reasoning, though.

I'm more curious as to why some people think that Luigi is still better than, say, Captain Falcon or Villager. In my eyes they are clearly more viable than him in this patch.

 

[TSmasher1000]

Hmm, I suppose, though I do agree with the thing about the Rosalina matchup, as I main Rosalina. Maybe it's just me, but I don't find it all that hard to SDI and DI out of his Up Air juggles. Gotta hand it to him though, if he does manage to get them on you, it can kill at a pretty decent percent. I still don't think he has everything to hang with tier 2 though, but that's just my opinion.

Yay another Rosa main. Whenever I play Rosaluma in my club everyone gets super salty and hates on me and if I do lose (which is pretty rare) then they try and rub it in my face :/

Eh... life I guess...

Anyways I agree, I actually personally don't find it extremely hard to outspace and DI out of his U-air juggles, but I thought it might have been because I haven't met a good Metaknight yet. For example, it might be impossible for me/Rosa to DI out of from Abadango's.

 

[Zionaze]

2~3 uairs are generally guarenteed. Its the overextending MKs that make it seem like the uair chains are escapable.

 

[Onyxical]

()

+

-

 

[Bowserboy3]

Yay another Rosa main. Whenever I play Rosaluma in my club everyone gets super salty and hates on me and if I do lose (which is pretty rare) then they try and rub it in my face :/

Eh... life I guess...

Anyways I agree, I actually personally don't find it extremely hard to outspace and DI out of his U-air juggles, but I thought it might have been because I haven't met a good Metaknight yet. For example, it might be impossible for me/Rosa to DI out of from Abadango's.

Haha I know exactly what you mean about Rosalina. It's funny, because one of my friends mains Sheik, and another mains Pikachu, but that's ok apparently...

 

[aεrgiα]

Haha I know exactly what you mean about Rosalina. It's funny, because one of my friends mains Sheik, and another mains Pikachu, but that's ok apparently...

oh of course thats ok... i mean rosa can camp you out, meanwhile pika and sheik? nah, i mean needles arent that good right? theres no knockback on those things and its not like sheik has the mobility to just run away from half the cast either.
and its not like pika can spam thunder jolts(or whater that move is called) to force most characters to approach and use his fast and relatively safe moves to harrass you either...
right guys...
right?
...anyone?!?


EDIT: also, on the topic of dificulty of use, i find it amusing how no-one has mentioned peach yet, imo probably the hardest character to use in the whole game

 

[Xandercosm]

Need I repeat, why does deserve to go down more than, say, or possibly ? He's much more of a scary opponent than the those two, as he's got the projectiles worthy of a fantastic spacing game and plenty of kill setups. Contrarily, DK only reliably kills with Bair unless he gets a Ding Dong from a platform, and Peach doesn't really have much success as far as I've been made aware of. (And no, I don't have main bias. When I was maining Pac-Man a while back, I thought he was bad until I saw what he was capable of.)

Please, no one else downvote him. Tier 3 is a perfect fit for him. He's definitely not as bad as those in Tier 4.

I know. I don't understand how anyone could vote him down. Especially over Ike, the pits (possibly), and DK (I guess...). He feels like the most obvious character to be in this tier. I see him as like the most "tier 3" character in this game. He's not so powerful that he should go up and not weak enough to go down. So yeah, I don't understand the downvotes for Pac.

 

[Wintermelon43]

People think Pac-Man should go down because all they can find of Abadango is Abadango VS. Triple R

 

[TSmasher1000]

Haha I know exactly what you mean about Rosalina. It's funny, because one of my friends mains Sheik, and another mains Pikachu, but that's ok apparently...

This is exactly what I mean lol. I almost never lose irl, but the only times I do lose are rarely against one of my friends who is about as good as me (apparently we're really good, I don't think so. I just think that the other guys in the clubs need to get better.) That guy mains Sheik and apparently that's okay because Rosalina and Luma deserve more flack than Sheik because people can't deal with a star that you can knock away or perfect shield after getting Rosa gets hit.

 

[Furret24]

This is exactly what I mean lol. I almost never lose irl, but the only times I do lose are rarely against one of my friends who is about as good as me (apparently we're really good, I don't think so. I just think that the other guys in the clubs need to get better.) That guy mains Sheik and apparently that's okay because Rosalina and Luma deserve more flack than Sheik because people can't deal with a star that you can knock away or perfect shield after getting Rosa gets hit.

I hate Rosaluma far more than Sheik.

Probably because I never see good Sheiks on FG. And because Rosaluma is stupidly good against scrubs like me (especially when I main a character that gets killed by Luma at 60%).

 

[Bowserboy3]

I hate Rosaluma far more than Sheik.

Probably because I never see good Sheiks on FG. And because Rosaluma is stupidly good against scrubs like me (especially when I main a character that gets killed by Luma at 60%).

From experience, G&W's dash attack is pretty decent at dealing with Rosalina, as it can hit Luma through her shield, doesnt' have much end lag, and can even cross up her shield. Also, be sure to make good use of the invulnerability on his Up Smash when she's above you.

But to be fair, if you have a bit of lag online while playing as Rosalina, it isn't too game breaking, and you can still play her decently well. However, get a bit of lag while playing as Shiek and it can completely screw the player over. That's probably a reason why you haven't seen a good Sheik on FG, you've been lucky with lag.

Out of all the top tiers (I'll consider the current tier 1, which is ), Rosalina gives me the least trouble. It's probably to do with as I main her, I know her weaknesses and how to exploit them, as well as what exactly the other player is thinking. ZSS probably gives me the most trouble. That's one matchup I certainly switch into my secondary, Mario. I feel Rosalina fairs worse in that matchup than Mario.

 

[BotaNick]

()
+ because of his enormous potential if played correctly

 

[Furret24]

From experience, G&W's dash attack is pretty decent at dealing with Rosalina, as it can hit Luma through her shield, doesnt' have much end lag, and can even cross up her shield. Also, be sure to make good use of the invulnerability on his Up Smash when she's above you.

But to be fair, if you have a bit of lag online while playing as Rosalina, it isn't too game breaking, and you can still play her decently well. However, get a bit of lag while playing as Shiek and it can completely screw the player over. That's probably a reason why you haven't seen a good Sheik on FG, you've been lucky with lag.

Out of all the top tiers (I'll consider the current tier 1, which is ), Rosalina gives me the least trouble. It's probably to do with as I main her, I know her weaknesses and how to exploit them, as well as what exactly the other player is thinking. ZSS probably gives me the most trouble. That's one matchup I certainly switch into my secondary, Mario. I feel Rosalina fairs worse in that matchup than Mario.

I have little issue killing Luma, but Rosalina outrages me and is far safer than me. Dair goes right through usmash's invincibility.

 

[Bowserboy3]

I have little issue killing Luma, but Rosalina outrages me and is far safer than me. Dair goes right through usmash's invincibility.

Rosalina's Dair should only go through the invincibility if Luma is with her and they both hit. If Rosalina is on her own, it should not be able to get past it.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I know. I don't understand how anyone could vote him down. Especially over Ike, the pits (possibly), and DK (I guess...). He feels like the most obvious character to be in this tier. I see him as like the most "tier 3" character in this game. He's not so powerful that he should go up and not weak enough to go down. So yeah, I don't understand the downvotes for Pac.

I'm just glad I upvoted him, because if I didn't, he might undeservedly go down a tier.

 

[Routa]

As far as I know G&W head is only invulnerable when charging U-smash so I presume that the Rosa&Luma's Dair will still hit G&W body which is still vulnerable.

 

[Bowserboy3]

As far as I know G&W head is only invulnerable when charging U-smash so I presume that the Rosa&Luma's Dair will still hit G&W body which is still vulnerable.

Actually, this is true, and seeing as the halo is disjointed, it can be hard to hit her before the halo hits G&W's body.

 

[Furret24]

Actually, this is true, and seeing as the halo is disjointed, it can be hard to hit her before the halo hits G&W's body.

I think it's impossible since the halo is so disjointed.

 

[TSmasher1000]

From experience, G&W's dash attack is pretty decent at dealing with Rosalina, as it can hit Luma through her shield, doesnt' have much end lag, and can even cross up her shield. Also, be sure to make good use of the invulnerability on his Up Smash when she's above you.

But to be fair, if you have a bit of lag online while playing as Rosalina, it isn't too game breaking, and you can still play her decently well. However, get a bit of lag while playing as Shiek and it can completely screw the player over. That's probably a reason why you haven't seen a good Sheik on FG, you've been lucky with lag.

Out of all the top tiers (I'll consider the current tier 1, which is ), Rosalina gives me the least trouble. It's probably to do with as I main her, I know her weaknesses and how to exploit them, as well as what exactly the other player is thinking. ZSS probably gives me the most trouble. That's one matchup I certainly switch into my secondary, Mario. I feel Rosalina fairs worse in that matchup than Mario.

I feel it's similar for me. Tbh, it may be just I have never played against a good Sheik, but I feel like Rosalina has a good to even MU with all of the top tiers except for ZSS. True, there's a chance that Sheik's fairs can knock away Luma, but I found that Luma's u-air can stop Sheik's fairs and break the combo and Rosaluma can kill Sheik much earlier than Sheik can kill her. Also Rosaluma can outspace her and gravitational pull with d-tilt works pretty well on needles. It might just be that I also play a lot of Sheik. Pikachu can be outspaced by Rosaluma, which I feel is the biggest reason why he isn't the best in the game (he just lacks a bit of range). ZSS just juggles Rosaluma so hard and can punish her really badly. She also has the aerial mobility to escape juggles and can kill her super early. Idk, probably wrong about it, but those are my two cents about the top tiers with Rosalina MUs. I think that the easiest MU for me for the top tiers is either Sheik or Rosaluma, and ZSS is just hard because you can't really approach or chase a patient and good ZSS.

 

[Scamper52596]

()

-1
-1

 

[Nu~]

()

+1
-1

What's with all these down votes for pacman? The character keeps bringing in better results:

And the DK hype is strange

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

()
+1 How much we all wanna bet she's secret top 10? xD no but seriously, she is undeniably still not at her full potential and she takes much dedication.
-1 sorry I don't understand how he is this high.

 

[Zethoro]

+1 : He's in tier 2 for sure in my opinion. He has all the tools he needs to be a top tier and has good results.
+1 : His camping game is amazing.

-1 sorry I don't understand how he is this high.

You'd be high tier too if you had a kill confirm that gets KOs at 80 without rage (don't even get me started on how insane he gets with CPs)
He literally needs nothing else to be that high (but he has fast attacks with huge disjointed range too and is a prime cantidate for kill confirms out of throws at low %s because his heavy weight means he's quite difficult to kill.)
Why do you think Luigi was top tier before the nerfs? Kill confirms out of throws are just that big of a deal in this game.
Not saying you're wrong, but that's why.

 

[MONKEYHELL]

()

+1
-1

 

[Xandercosm]

Guys! What the heck?! Why vote DK down anymore? He's already moving down a tier (which is the farthest a character can move in any one segment). You're wasting your freaking votes if you vote him down now. My god. So many idiots. This is why community voted tier lists don't work.

 

[Equin0x]

Guys! What the heck?! Why vote DK down anymore? He's already moving down a tier (which is the farthest a character can move in any one segment). You're wasting your freaking votes if you vote him down now. My god. So many idiots. This is why community voted tier lists don't work.

They're countervotes for countervotes.

 

[Routa]

Guys! What the heck?! Why vote DK down anymore? He's already moving down a tier (which is the farthest a character can move in any one segment). You're wasting your freaking votes if you vote him down now. My god. So many idiots. This is why community voted tier lists don't work.

Mmm... People downvote him 'cause they think/know that outside his grab game he is mediocre character. Also please stop with the rudeness. I know you disagree with most of us, but that does not mean that you are allowed to be rude.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Need I repeat, why does deserve to go down more than, say, or possibly ? He's much more of a scary opponent than the those two, as he's got the projectiles worthy of a fantastic spacing game and plenty of kill setups. Contrarily, DK only reliably kills with Bair unless he gets a Ding Dong from a platform, and Peach doesn't really have much success as far as I've been made aware of. (And no, I don't have main bias. When I was maining Pac-Man a while back, I thought he was bad until I saw what he was capable of.)

Please, no one else downvote him. Tier 3 is a perfect fit for him. He's definitely not as bad as those in Tier 4.

I don't think you've seen just how scary a good Peach can be.

 

[Vyrnx]

Guys! What the heck?! Why vote DK down anymore? He's already moving down a tier (which is the farthest a character can move in any one segment). You're wasting your freaking votes if you vote him down now. My god. So many idiots. This is why community voted tier lists don't work.

Don't act so superior.

Maybe they don't see any other character who they want to move up or down, so they just vote down DK because hey, people are also up voting him, and they want to make sure he stays in the "moving down" category. Or maybe they are just voting based on what they think and not what others think/have already voted for. It has nothing to do with community voted tier lists effectiveness because it is still community input that's being taken into account for the reorganization process. Posts like yours are honestly more harmful to community voted tier lists because it's antagonizing people for their votes.

 

[Xandercosm]

God this thread is so toxic. :dramatic:

But on a serious note. It is really annoying when people use no common sense. If you've seen that 90% of the people in this thread have downvoted DK, just don't down vote him. It's a waste of a vote and it makes you look stupid. Now, instead of saying that I'm acting superior, why not try to look at what I'm saying and wise the hell up for once. Maybe you could learn a thing or two. But, instead, you just make a post saying how I'm acting like a jerk and it gets a ton of likes. The whole thing is just cringe-worthy and now I understand why I was told that community-voted tier lists suck.

It's, honestly, just hilarious now...

 

[Smash4Player64]

Just for that...

-1

 

[Routa]

...just don't down vote him. It's a waste of a vote and it makes you look stupid.

Why people should not downvote him? I haven't really heard any counter argument from your part. What can DK do if we don't count his grab game?

Main reasons why community voted tier lists suck are main bias, lack of MU knowledge, lack of reasoning and random tournament heros.

And yeah you kinda act like a jerk. Hell even I have acted like a jerk towards Doc, Samus and Roy voters, but you are going maybe a little too far.