Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Equin0x]

I want to laugh so hard right now. Resistingggg..... TEMPTATIONNNNNN.....

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rude.

I've played Link at a competitive level at my locals, and while I'm not the best Link, nor was the competition there of the highest level, I am experienced with Link. Link has comboes, he has kill power, he has gimping, he has kill setups, and his neutral is nothing to scoff at, although it isn't great. I've studied his advanced techs, his kill setups, his edgeguard setups, and gameplay of the highest level Link user, Izaw. He goes even or beats a handful of high tiers, although those he loses to kind of body him, and has a decent MU spread overall. He doesn't deserve to be shoveled into the same tier as Doc, BJr, etc.

Would you mind arguing why you think I'm wrong instead of replying with

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and no evidence or reasoning behind it?

 

[wedl!!]

-1
-1

Also for all of you saying Marth has good range http://gfycat.com/ConstantQuerulousCuttlefish

If you think he has "bad range" because of that, I don't think you actually understand the problem.

 

[XenoBlur]

-1
-1

 

[Wintermelon43]

Rude.

I've played Link at a competitive level at my locals, and while I'm not the best Link, nor was the competition there of the highest level, I am experienced with Link. Link has comboes, he has kill power, he has gimping, he has gill setups, and his neutral is nothing to scoff at, although it isn't great. I've studied his advanced techs, his kill setups, his edgeguard setups, and gameplay of the highest level Link user, Izaw. He goes even or beats a handful of high tiers, although those he loses to kind of body him, and has a decent MU spread overall. He doesn't deserve to be shoveled into the same tier as Doc, BJr, etc.

Would you mind arguing why you think I'm wrong instead of replying with
and no evidence or reasoning behind it?

The problem is, he has NOTHING except great KO power and pretty good range. And that's it.

Edit:Oh, and fairly good air attacks

 

[atreyujames]

()

+1 I agree that is better by a couple of spots but by no means an ENTIRE tier better.
(Swear to god this better not turn out like &before)

-1 He's a decent character but he's very lack luster overall.

Ok, can we talk about your thought process on this. How you order the tier is how you order the tier. I mean, that's just, your opinion man. But. BUT. your voting makes 0 sense. First you say that Tink is better than Link, but your tier arrangement seems to say otherwise. Second, you are upvoting a character that you say is at the bottom of the tier. I am 98% sure that upvoting a character does not "counter" the downvotes in this phase. Who ever gets the most downvotes/upvotes moves. It isn't like the other phases where every character can change tiers. Lastly, you downvoted Falco, yet still have him above characters you think should stay in tier 4. I am so confused by your entire post

 

[Nessimator]

()
+1
+1
(Overall I'm really not too sure about where I'd want these guys since half of my 4th tier would look different, but I did my best.)

 

[DarkK]

Ok thanks, but he should be in the bottom of 4 and near the top of 5

If ends up going down, he would be the first one in tier 5.

 

[aεrgiα]

really, pit and rob should go up and shulk, falco and link should go down(with others taking their place) imo but with only 2 votes...
+1
-1

 

[aεrgiα]

Link is fine where he is. I agree that is better by a couple of spots but by no means an ENTIRE tier better.

If you honestly think he needs to go down you're bad and you should feel bad. I'll be thoroughly disappointed with this forum if he drops a tier because of people like you.

so having a different opinion makes someone bad at the game now? well heres my counter argument " if u think link should stay in this tier then you've obviously got no clue about competitive smash"... yeah its a very impressive argument isnt it -_-

PS. and sorry for double post but i couldnt edit in the quote :/

 

[Wintermelon43]

so having a different opinion makes someone bad at the game now? well heres my counter argument " if u think link should stay in this tier then you've obviously got no clue about competitive smash"... yeah its a very impressive argument isnt it -_-

PS. and sorry for double post but i couldnt edit in the quote :/

Don't worry about it, I get stuff like that all the time. his post just made me LOL

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Dammit, Browny ! You always update this when I'm away!

Spoiler: Reference

4: ()

4: ()

+1 () Great aerials, smash attacks, combos, and recovery.
-1 If is Tier 5, then he should be, too. I don't see why he's higher, as he's worse at spacing and recovery.

Notes:
~ Probably the best counterpick character. While he gets owned by , he does really well against and . His only problem, of course, is that he's bad at low percentages.
~ He's got some slow moves, which is why he doesn't get the vote.
~ is better than in most ways, but enough to move him up a tier.
~Why is he so much lower than ? Quick moves, extensive combos, and a better recovery.
~ Almost got the downvote, but at least he's got combos, a projectile, and a good recovery.

 

[Equin0x]

The problem is, he has NOTHING except great KO power and pretty good range. And that's it.

Edit:Oh, and fairly good air attacks

Link has comboes, he has kill power, he has gimping, he has kill setups, and his neutral is nothing to scoff at, although it isn't great. I've studied his advanced techs, his kill setups, his edgeguard setups, and gameplay of the highest level Link user, Izaw.

I disagree.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I disagree.

Except Tink has all that and more, improved. Quicker moves in general (leading to more combos), more mobile, better boomerang, better recovery, and still great power. The only disadvantage I see is that he's lighter.

 

[aεrgiα]

Dammit, Browny ! You always update this when I'm away!

Spoiler: Reference

4: ()

4: ()

+1 () Great aerials, smash attacks, combos, and recovery.
-1 If is Tier 5, then he should be, too. I don't see why he's higher, as he's worse at spacing and recovery.

Notes:
Almost got the upvote from me, but he has some slow and punishable moves.
is better than in most ways, but enough to move him up a tier.
Probably the best counterpick character. While he gets owned by , he does really well against and .
Why is he so much lower than ? Quick moves, extensive combos, and a better recovery.
Almost got the downvote, but at least he's got combos, a projectile, and a good recovery.

well about lucas, personally i think lucas' problems are: tether grab(yes he gets a great spacing tool and it helps his recovery, but for a character that benefits so much from getting a grab, having a "slow" grab hurts him more imo), his up b cant really be used as an edgeguard/onstage bc its got a lot more end lag on it(hit someone offstage with it, they punish me for it -_-), he doesnt have a ness nair to get him out of combos, can have trouble approaching and his uair doesnt have nesses stupidly large hitbox which makes it harder to land for the kill . take it with a grain of salt as ive only just picked lucas up but thats what i think holds lucas back

 

[TriforceOfAura]

+1: Why is Lucas so much lower than Ness?! He has a much better combo/zoning game, a far better recovery, and while he may be lacking in Back Throw Ebola, Lucas has a much more tactical style to him. While he may not be superior to Ness, he should be much higher than he is now.
+1: Roy? On the same tier as Olimar...? He has the damage output and kill potential comparable to that of Little Mac, and speed like Marth? A powerful airgame? Combos? For Roy to be ranked this low is insulting. He obviously hasn't been played to his fullest, he is up there with Ness and Falcon, IMO.

 

[Equin0x]

Except Tink has all that and more, improved. Quicker moves in general (leading to more combos), more mobile, better boomerang, better recovery, and still great power. The only disadvantage I see is that he's lighter.

We've seen this discussion with Doc and Mario countless time. They're different characters. They even play differently. Tink is much, much, much more air-based and slightly more projectile-based than Link, whether that be for offense of defense. Tink is faster horizontally while Link is faster vertically. Link has much more kill power but less overall mobility. Link has the ability to throw his bombs on the ground without having them explode, allowing for traps and gimps (if he throws them so they roll off of the ledge). Also, Tink's kill throw is much, much stronger than Link's. I agree that Tink is better overall than Link, I even placed him several spots higher than Link in my rendition of this tier, but that doesn't mean I think Link is bad.

And while Tink's boomerang has more practical uses, Link's can be used differently in more creative ways. The windbox has plenty of uses. I could agree that overall, Tink's is more practical, but they're different moves, so I'd refrain from saying "better" or "worse".

 

[HerpFish]

()
+() They, in mu opinion, are slightly better than the rest of this tier. Other characters here have some sort of flaw that prevents them from winning as much at high level play, but the Pits just don't have as major of a flaw in those regards.
+As much as I fear R.O.B., I feel as though Olimar does better all around. This one was really close though.

Other thoughts:

Toon Link is better than Link and I would love to down vote Link, but I just can't see him as being on the same level as some of the other characters there. This is part of why I wanted 8 tiers, but that's in the past now.

Lucas is hurt too much by his tether grab to move up, but fits in well with this tier.

I need more convincing before I can put Link above Shulk. I'm open to someone explaining to me why Shulk needs to move down and it could change my mind, but it also might just be that my Bowser Jr. doesn't like him. Meh.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

+1: Roy? On the same tier as Olimar...? He has the damage output and kill potential comparable to that of Little Mac, and speed like Marth? A powerful airgame? Combos? For Roy to be ranked this low is insulting. He obviously hasn't been played to his fullest, he is up there with Ness and Falcon, IMO.

Well, if that's the case, why is Marth so low if he's got all that, PLUS a better recovery?

Also, you only get two votes. I would recommend removing this one, but...

 

[Equin0x]

I need more convincing before I can put Link above Shulk. I'm open to someone explaining to me why Shulk needs to move down and it could change my mind, but it also might just be that my Bowser Jr. doesn't like him. Meh.

I placed Link above Shulk because, while they're both swordsmen, and Shulk has plenty of tools, Shulk's tools aren't that good, or the don't make up for his weaknesses. Shulk has, I believe, the worst frame data in the game. He has a long sword, but if someone gets past that sword, he's taking a ton of damage from anybody with half-decent frame data. He has very few reliable kill setups (no good ones that I can think of), so his most reliable kill option at high %s becomes Dthrow or Bthrow withj Smash art. His comboes aren't very rewarding or reliable, even at low %s. His gimping ability is stellar, but his recovery is absolute balls without Jump art. His Monado Arts are all very useful, but they all have terrible drawbacks with the exceptions of Speed and Jump imo. I'd still call him mid-tier, but not high mid-tier, so I voted him down to the lower tier.

Link is another story, but that's my argument for why Shulk's the worst in this tier.

 

[Routa]

Link has comboes, he has kill power, he has gimping, he has gill setups, and his neutral is nothing to scoff at, although it isn't great.

You know who els has these stuff? Pretty much every character within the game. Yes Link does indeed have some nice combos, but compared to rest of the cast they are ok at beast. He can gimp indeed, but can he do it easily? Nah... Kill setup? Even Swordfighter's Up-B OoS is more reliable than anything that Link has (and it is meh at best). What I am trying to say that he is ok/good character, but is he as good as the rest of the characters in the current tier he is? In my eyes he isn't.

Also Lucas isn't a bad character at all. Yes he has teher grab but it is workable (great Zair and extra recovery tool). Yeah there is a gab between Lucas and Ness, but Lucas isn't what we would call a lesser clone. He does his job quite nicely. Maybe not the best for solo maining, but is a good counterpick character.

He has the damage output and kill potential comparable to that of Little Mac, and speed like Marth?

What is the point of having speed and power when most of your moves are unsafe on shield? Also his disadvantage state is one of the worst so there is that.

A powerful airgame?

You clearly don't know what is a strong airgame (look at Mario, Pikachu and Ike and then look at Roy again. Feels lacking eh?).

Combos?

Jab -> Jab Top tier combo right there (but seriously most of these "combos" are strings and still lacking for a high/mid tier character)!

...he is up there with Ness and Falcon...

...wat? I would like to know why you think a Roy is better than one of the best air based fighters or better than one of the best bait and punish characters.

 

[Rinku リンク]

~ is better than in most ways, but enough to move him up a tier.

A ray of light in this hole of darkness.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Anyone saying Link is good where he is:Video proof?

 

[ShadowGuy1]

People mention bad recovery. Yet Falcon, DK, and Luigi(although I do consider him better, just an example. Are a tier above. Yes i know landing lag is a thing.

 

[Equin0x]

You know who else has these stuff? Pretty much every character within the game. Yes Link does indeed have some nice combos, but compared to rest of the cast they are ok at best. He can gimp indeed, but can he do it easily? Nah... Kill setup? Even Swordfighter's Up-B OoS is more reliable than anything that Link has (and it is meh at best). What I am trying to say that he is ok/good character, but is he as good as the rest of the characters in the current tier he is? In my eyes he isn't.

I didn't say or mean that he has great comboes, but they are at least reliable and deal a lot of damage early on, allowing him to take his preferred defensive stance if he can pull them off before the other character gets in on him.

Link can gimp very easily. Arrows, Boomerang, Bombs, Nair, Bair, Fair, and Dair are all great gimping tools, and if the Link is adept at combining these effectively, you may find it very difficult to return to the stage without eating a lot of %, if at all.

Link's kill setups include Boomerang or Bomb to Fair, Uair, or Hero's Spin at almost any % due to their extremely low knockback gain, Dthow > Uair can work as well, Jab 2 sets up for tons of stuff. On fast fallers Jab 2 > Dsmash works very well. If the fastest fallers shield or roll backwards because they hit the ground too fast, Jab 2 > Grab is also very effective. If you read a jump out from non-ffast fallers, Jab 2 > Fair works great as well.

You may not feel that he is as good as the rest of the people in this tier. That's fine. He can low in this tier. In my eyes, he is definitely not as bad as the characters int he tier below him.

 

[Rinku リンク]

Anyone saying Link is good where he is:Video proof?

You'll probably come up with some other excuse to deny it but here...

 

[aεrgiα]

You know who els has these stuff? Pretty much every character within the game. Yes Link does indeed have some nice combos, but compared to rest of the cast they are ok at beast. He can gimp indeed, but can he do it easily? Nah... Kill setup? Even Swordfighter's Up-B OoS is more reliable than anything that Link has (and it is meh at best). What I am trying to say that he is ok/good character, but is he as good as the rest of the characters in the current tier he is? In my eyes he isn't.

Also Lucas isn't a bad character at all. Yes he has teher grab but it is workable (great Zair and extra recovery tool). Yeah there is a gab between Lucas and Ness, but Lucas isn't what we would call a lesser clone. He does his job quite nicely. Maybe not the best for solo maining, but is a good counterpick character.


What is the point of having speed and power when most of your moves are unsafe on shield? Also his disadvantage state is one of the worst so there is that.


You clearly don't know what is a strong airgame (look at Mario, Pikachu and Ike and then look at Roy again. Feels lacking eh?).


Jab -> Jab Top tier combo right there (but seriously most of these "combos" are strings and still lacking for a high/mid tier character)!



...wat? I would like to know why you think a Roy is better than one of the best air based fighters or better than one of the best bait and punish characters.

before any missunderstandings arise, i dont think lucas is a bad character, in fact i think hes perfect in this tier, i was just stating why i think he is "this much worse" than ness

 

[Equin0x]

Anyone saying Link is good where he is:Video proof?

If you can get past the cheesy edits and filters, this montage of Izaw's does a good job of showcasing Link's abilities even BEFORE his buffs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCqDJtv88Sg

These were sets against Haze, a strong Falcon from Europe, I believe. These were also BEFORE his buffs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cITg_8wZqUw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBrvgR-c1VQ

This was a set against Ixis, a very strong Sonic from Europe. (Also before buffs, iirc.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9gQ3miX4yc

 

[TriforceOfAura]

You know who els has these stuff? Pretty much every character within the game. Yes Link does indeed have some nice combos, but compared to rest of the cast they are ok at beast. He can gimp indeed, but can he do it easily? Nah... Kill setup? Even Swordfighter's Up-B OoS is more reliable than anything that Link has (and it is meh at best). What I am trying to say that he is ok/good character, but is he as good as the rest of the characters in the current tier he is? In my eyes he isn't.

Also Lucas isn't a bad character at all. Yes he has teher grab but it is workable (great Zair and extra recovery tool). Yeah there is a gab between Lucas and Ness, but Lucas isn't what we would call a lesser clone. He does his job quite nicely. Maybe not the best for solo maining, but is a good counterpick character.


What is the point of having speed and power when most of your moves are unsafe on shield? Also his disadvantage state is one of the worst so there is that.


You clearly don't know what is a strong airgame (look at Mario, Pikachu and Ike and then look at Roy again. Feels lacking eh?).


Jab -> Jab Top tier combo right there (but seriously most of these "combos" are strings and still lacking for a high/mid tier character)!



...wat? I would like to know why you think a Roy is better than one of the best air based fighters or better than one of the best bait and punish characters.

Have you played a good Roy? Do you know how to play Roy? I know a strong airgame, I main Sheik and Dedede... don't tell me what I know and what I don't. Sure, his airgame isn't one of the best, but it certainly beats the heck out of most of the roster. Roy has combos that carry him and his target across the battlefield, something most characters(outside of those who are combo-heavy) cannot say. I've played good Roys, and I'm a good Roy myself, I know his strengths and weaknesses. Look into him a bit more, and come talk to me again.

 

[Xandercosm]

Even though I think shulk should go back into tier 5, he is not bottom 10 like some people say. For this reason I am voting
+1 to counter the ****storm of downvotes.
Some people do not know what MALLC is

My god, just cause you like playing as that garbage character doesn't mean you should be upvoting him. Grow up and don't get so butthurt.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Also for my Koopaling tier list cause wynaut

 

[Wintermelon43]

Srrsly Browny Please add a bonus round for alt coustumes, where we decide which Villager, Robin, and WFT gender, which Koopaling, and either Olimar or Alph, to add onto this this tier list, as a bonus round.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Srrsly Browny Please add a bonus round for alt coustumes, where we decide which Villager, Robin, and WFT gender, which Koopaling, and either Olimar or Alph, to add onto this this tier list, as a bonus round.

But we'd need the other Villager alts to

 

[Xandercosm]

I was just thinking, I'd like to see a good Tink player for once. Anyone got any clips?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I was just thinking, I'd like to see a good Tink player for once. Anyone got any clips?

What about d*cks(won't let me use the uncensored one) at Big House?

 

[IndigoSSB]

( )

+ Call it main biased, I don't care. I acknowledge that he's in the bottom half of this tier (I won't argue that), but I refuse to believe he's at the complete bottom or 5th tier when he can potentially combo up to 60%. His combos aren't easy bake like Luigi, but you can't ignore this factor and just write him off because of his weakness in neutral.

+ I'll be honest, I personally believe he should be on the next tier list but I don't push for it because there are no results to back it up. Has a lot of great set-ups that are relatively easy to do, decent killing options, and a solid projectile. At the very least I think he should be at the or near the top of this tier. (I'll be content with the Pits being at the top as well).


A couple of side notes, Roy is right where he belongs. The only things he has over Ike, who's in the next tier, is mobility and attack speed, he loses in almost every other way. I won't bother quoting it, but a couple of posts back somebody said something along the lines of "Roy being on the same level as Olimar is an insult". Ignorant statements like this that are based on nothing aren't needed, especially when Olimar is a great zoning character and has just as little representation as Roy does.

 

[Cyclone_]

*sigh*

1. Sheik leans towards when she uses Fair and there for is closer when using Fair which gives an illusion of more range.
2. Sheik's hurtbox also moves towards
3. When you look at pure frame data Marth's Fair will have more range
4. This has been discussed a long time ago in other threats so...

*Le Sigh* To you my good sir for you have good points but this still means that technically speaking arguably the best move in the game has more range than marth, a SWORD WIELDER, who should, based on the way he works have more range than shiek who just as you said leans forward. Frame data wise yes it is better but the fact that sheik extends herself in entirety out meaning she has more range than marth.

5.()

-1 - His frame data and... just everything about him being high low tier

 

[TMNTSSB4]

*Le Sigh* To you my good sir for you have good points but this still means that technically speaking arguably the best move in the game has more range than marth, a SWORD WIELDER, who should, based on the way he works have more range than shiek who just as you said leans forward. Frame data wise yes it is better but the fact that sheik extends herself in entirety out meaning she has more range than marth.

5.()

-1 - His frame data and... just everything about him being high low tier

Waste the other vote on Pit

 

[Cyclone_]

Waste the other vote on Pit

Doesn't Deserve it i'll give it tooooooooo.......
+1 BEEP BOOP BOOP BEEP (He has so many god damn shenanigans like holy balls)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Doesn't Deserve it i'll give it tooooooooo.......
+1 BEEP BOOP BOOP BEEP (He has so many god damn shenanigans like holy balls)

Rob deserves one to...*cries looking like the frog on your profile pic*

But seriously though, tier 4 is crazy

 

[Shiarya]

+1 roy
+1 link

Both have had their explanations beaten into the ground in this thread already, both are extremely good in the right hands and slight bias but the only thing roys missing is for a few more top tier tourney players to actually pick him up and drag him higher up the rankings, he's amazing just no ones playing him because switching mains just because isn't something a lot of people want to do.

He has the speed, power, mobility and pressure to go really far, we just need to see someone do it before sheeple stop sheeping