Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Browny]

Kirby has MikeKirby and TripleR, they havn't done much yet at tournaments, but that's the same with everyone else (Either that, or it was only secondary results) And I consider results useless for tier lists, since if we needed results it'd be showing players

And Browny are we still gonna vote for another two months after this patch, or just do what we would have done if nothing changed? Because Luigi and Samus are the only characters that got even moderate changes that didn't involve customs.

Yeah I'm thinking about it, I want to see an actual frame data dump on any changes before confirming anything though. Plenty of characters could have had it changed and youd never notice.

 

[MrWhYYZ]

+1
+1
-1

 

[Seige]

Luigi's gonna tank now huh? Welp if I knew this I would've waited, so I could +1 him so he wouldn't fall too far.
More or less I prefer Luigi being tier 3 in the first place but w/e.

 

[BlazGreen]

I don't think Luigi will fall that far. He still has a great combo game and you still have to play the matchup differently against him. Tier 3 will probably be the lowest he goes.

 

[Number Three]

I know you have an opinion, but mid-tier? AT BEST!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?. If you think its representation, watch Ranai. REALLY REALLY REALLY Good Japanese player who mains villager. And if you say, But its only one rep, than that means rosa should be mid tier as well!

Yes, but he's Japanese. Since they use a different ruleset, their meta is much different than ours which creates drastically different tier placings, similar to Brawl. Counting results in a different ruleset than the one I personally use would be like counting results in a ruleset where everything is identical to the western ruleset, except for the fact that all matches were 4 person free for alls. Bowser (who was pretty much made for free for alls) would easily be a top tier in that ruleset, but that doesn't make him top tier in a 1 vs. 1 ruleset, does it?

When I talk about tiers, I personally refer to how characters do in the western metagame with the western ruleset. If Ranai were to come over here, compete in a major, and place well, then I would definitely reconsider my opinion since Villager would actually have good results in a western ruleset. In a similar vein, Mewtwo is looked upon much more favorably in Japan and is seen as like a low-mid tier over there. However, I'm not going to stop thinking Mewtwo is bottom tier because of his results in Japan (unless a Japanese Mewtwo got results in a western tournament) since he is currently not as effective in the western ruleset. Even if Dabuz is the only Rosalina getting great results, he's getting them under the western ruleset, which is one of the many reasons everyone views her a top tier.

Results aside, I also don't think Villager has good matchups against the top tiers (bar maybe Ness and Luigi, assuming he's still top tier) and he looses to characters that a so called "Tier 3" character shouldn't loose to (like Palutena). It's this combined with his lack of results in the west that cause me to see him as a mid-tier character.

 

[Zionaze]

Honestly the ruleset they have there is barely any different. The lack of Lylat and duck hunt and the additional 1min is like the only difference there is.

 

[Xandercosm]

I don't think Luigi will fall that far. He still has a great combo game and you still have to play the matchup differently against him. Tier 3 will probably be the lowest he goes.

Still, it's another one of those moronic nerfs that nobody asked for and that don't make any sense. It's a bit reminiscent of Diddy...

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Still, it's another one of those moronic nerfs that nobody asked for and that don't make any sense. It's a bit reminiscent of Diddy...

Honestly his Dthrow nerf was both expected and reasonable. Ness and Shiek bot getting nerfed on the other hand...

 

[Nai]

+
+
-

 

[TMNTSSB4]

+1
+1
+1

 

[jaketheknight]

+1
+1
+1

 

[Fuerzo]

Luigi is probably Tier 3 material now.

 

[Xandercosm]

Honestly his Dthrow nerf was both expected and reasonable. Ness and Shiek bot getting nerfed on the other hand...

It just really feels like there were tons of characters that deserved nerfs more than Luigi.

 

[Zionaze]

Luigi just had really poor game design. The nerfs were inevitable. He's a lot more like mario now with a (still) great combo throw and a bthrow that kills. Hey even his spike got buffed!

-jealous falco

 

[IndigoSSB]

Hey, I'm just ready to up vote for Luigi in preparation for the massive flood of Luigi down votes.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It just really feels like there were tons of characters that deserved nerfs more than Luigi.

Ness and Shiek are next

ZSS already got nerfed anyways apparently

 

[David Viran]

Ness and Shiek are next

ZSS already got nerfed anyways apparently

No she didn't. It was all lies.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

No she didn't. It was all lies.

Even the down smash thing?

 

[David Viran]

Even the down smash thing?

That was more of a mechanic change and overall with mechanic changes she was buffed because 3 of her aerials are now literally unpunishable on shield except a PS and a frame 4 move. But that still requires a misspace.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That was more of a mechanic change and overall with mechanic changes she was buffed because 3 of her aerials are now literally unpunishable on shield except a PS and a frame 4 move. But that still requires a misspace.

Well that sucks for Pit mains then

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

New update, sheildstun increased, Kirby has got one of his only approach options nerfed, and his defensive game to punish the opponent's approaches also got worse. If Kirby wasn't low-mid before, he definitely is now. This update didn't cripple him, but it gave the characters he already really struggled with (Yoshi and Sonic for example) a better edge on Kirby. Only good thing that came out of the patch is the Luigi MU isn't bad anymore, but nothing else. I don't see how Kirby can maintain top 30 with the shield update, but he isn't low-tier. 35-40 is around where I would put him this update, but we'll see how things go.

 

[Dcas]

Ness and Shiek are next

ZSS already got nerfed anyways apparently

ZSS is perfectly fine. She is very strong but she requires huge amount of knowledge and skill to be played at top lvl. Sheik and ness on the other hand are very easy to use/ adapt to, they are super strong at high lvl and even at entry lvl they are easy to pick up so they do need some sort of nerf.

 

[Deleted member]

ZSS is perfectly fine. She is very strong but she requires huge amount of knowledge and skill to be played at top lvl. Sheik and ness on the other hand are very easy to use/ adapt to, they are super strong at high lvl and even at entry lvl they are easy to pick up so they do need some sort of nerf.

Sheik is much harder to use than Zero Suit Samus and learning curve should never be a factor in nerfs and buffs anyway.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

Sheik is much harder to use than Zero Suit Samus and learning curve should never be a factor in nerfs and buffs anyway.

I disagree with this. Sheik has an easy time in neutral, fast moves, and good range. ZSS has a bad neutral andgets all her percent off reads, making her hrder to play. but i agree ;earning curve shouldnt be afactor in balancing

 

[Vyrnx]

+
+
-

 

[U.Inaba]

+
-
+

 

[MimicMime]

+
+
+

 

[Smash4Player64]

-1

-1 (Counter)

-1 (Counter)

 

[ShadowGuy1]

My vote time!!!!!

I would have upvoted Roy, but I think people have that covered/.
+Marth I think he is fine where he is.
-Luigi:I think for now, Luigi should drop JUST to Tier 3. NOT TIER 15 causer all the down votes he will get, thats inevitable.
-Samus:WHY DO PEOPLE UPVOTE SAMUS, SHE IS LIKE ONE OF THE WORST CHARCTERS(I dont know if she got any buffs, so I apoligize about that.

 

[Routa]

-Samus:WHY DO PEOPLE UPVOTE SAMUS, SHE IS LIKE ONE OF THE WORST CHARCTERS(I dont know if she got any buffs, so I apoligize about that.

She did get buffed, but the buffs pretty minor (mostly customs got buffed). She is still kinda ****ty after the latest patch.

 

[Xandercosm]

Luigi just had really poor game design. The nerfs were inevitable. He's a lot more like mario now with a (still) great combo throw and a bthrow that kills. Hey even his spike got buffed!

-jealous falco

So you're saying some parts of him got nerfed and others got buffed? I just want someone to make a list of all the Luigi changes this patch.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

at least they didn't touch shulk. Glad to know he is not F tier

 

[Zionaze]

So you're saying some parts of him got nerfed and others got buffed? I just want someone to make a list of all the Luigi changes this patch.

Your late to the party m8ty. Thinkaman has already went through the data changes. Luigi got a dthrow and cyclone nerf but a dsmasb and dair buff

 

[Deleted member]

I disagree with this. Sheik has an easy time in neutral, fast moves, and good range. ZSS has a bad neutral andgets all her percent off reads, making her hrder to play. but i agree ;earning curve shouldnt be afactor in balancing

You're confusing difficulty to win with difficulty to use at a top level. It is true Sheik has an easier time winning than Zero Suit Samus, but learning to use the character perfectly is harder with Sheik than Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Dcas]

You're confusing difficulty to win with difficulty to use at a top level. It is true Sheik has an easier time winning than Zero Suit Samus, but learning to use the character perfectly is harder with Sheik than Zero Suit Samus.

I disagree, sheiks ability to rack up damage makes it easier to just keep strings going while ZSS relies on heavy punishes, playing against zss is extremely stressful, if you missed something you can get ko ed very early.

Anyways, back on topic. I dont see how the latest patch would affect this tier list. MAYBE luigi can go a bit lower but nothing much.

 

[Deleted member]

It takes a lot of skill and effort to rack up damage with Sheik, you can't just mash A and win. Relying on reads doesn't make a character harder to use to full potential. The amount of tech skill required to use the character does. Sheik gets godly punishes off one grab with combos that don't require much tech skill to use. With Sheik doing many things require much skill to use. Spacing fair to be safe on shield, needle camping, proper use of Jumping Fish edgeguarding, combos such as the Void combo, etc.

The shield changes actually make a big difference on the tier list. Shields are much less safe, grabs should be less prevalent. Characters such as Meta Knight and Lucario benefit a lot from the weaker shields.

 

[David Viran]

.

The shield changes actually make a big difference on the tier list. Shields are much less safe, grabs should be less prevalent. Characters such as Meta Knight and Lucario benefit a lot from the weaker shields.

Cough, and zss.

 

[Xandercosm]

Your late to the party m8ty. Thinkaman has already went through the data changes. Luigi got a dthrow and cyclone nerf but a dsmasb and dair buff

I am late...

 

[MarioMeteor]

Still, it's another one of those moronic nerfs that nobody asked for and that don't make any sense. It's a bit reminiscent of Diddy...

A lot of people asked for Diddy to get nerfed, because he was kinda sorta the best character in the game by far. I do agree that the utter *********** of Luigi's nerf is unrivaled, though. Even more so when Sheik and Samus remained untouched. If we're lucky though, they'll be another patch along with the Smash Ballot characters that refixes Luigi.

 

[Vyrnx]

-Samus:WHY DO PEOPLE UPVOTE SAMUS, SHE IS LIKE ONE OF THE WORST CHARCTERS(I dont know if she got any buffs, so I apoligize about that.

First, she wasn't one of the worst characters before the patch. Low tier, not bottom. Second, she did get buffed, and they weren't minor. The shield stun changes give us a way stronger neutral, nair is usable and sets up tech chases, fair had six (SIX) landing lag frames removed for when it isn't properly canceled, and some damage buffs that help our bnb combo damage outputs. All pretty big changes. Not everything we wanted, but not shabby at all. I honestly don't think people can use this character for a week and think she is one of the worst. I really believe that. When I went through a phase of using DHD for a while, the opposite happened. My opinion went down the drain. Samus has messed up hit boxes, that alone does not make her bad. The only major issue she has is trouble landing. That is why she is considered low tier, not any of the other reasons people come up with.