Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Every time people say that, they need to take a look at the Brawl tier lists.
The same could be said about Zelda, who's judged poorly for her very punishable frame data. Even though, if you play smart, you won't really have much problem. In fact, she does surprisingly well in tournaments in the hands of players who actually use her.
The big thing about frame data is the game going easy on you.
I know he shouldn't be top tier, but he alreqsy has enough votes to move down two tiers. He doesn't need any more votes. A vote for Luigi at this piont is pretty much a wasted vote.-1Because a character that has no presence at nationals, has bad matchups with
I think all her "bad frame data" comes from her bad landing lag. Her start-up on all moves are great and her endlag is p decent but her landing lag, notably on kicks, are what her "bad" frame data is. The people who say she bad frame data probably haven't even seen her frame data. The people who keep down voting honestly probably don't know much about her and just assume or are a ESAM cultists. ANOTHER THING IS THAT TOP PLAYERS NEED TO STOP ACTING LIKE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING. ESAM's video description for Zelda was all false. Nothing he said about her was true. I actually made responses to the false statements.
Kirby Dragons
good frame data is a few things;
+ -+
Another thing is that the elevator can be comboed into. Falling Nair to Elevator is guarenteed.ESAM hardly mentioned her upb elevator combo oos which is godlike.
I saw it killing a yoshi at 30% middle of an omega stage simply for dash attacking her shield.
@
How fast your attacks come out on average
How quickly they end
How long they are active for
If your attacks are faster, end sooner and exist for a long time (think of G&Ws dash attack) compared to your opponents you will probably have an advantage. If you have long-range attacks then its ok for attacks to have 'bad' frame data, but having only a few fast moves means the enemy can avoid most of your attacks or block them more easily.
+1 -1+1
Probably the best overall combo game of any character. Great frame data. Fast and agile. Oh, and Ally... The monkey's still got it! "A wild buff appeared. It raised DK's rekage stat by 70%."
+1-1+1+1 (My main, his additional weight can be both a pro/con depending on your playstyle, and his attacks have higher knockback compared to Mario.)-1 (Megaman plays a bit too weird for me. I can't get a grasp at his varied moveset, in addition to the fact that I believe his moveset can be heavily devastating. To himself. A lot of his attacks can be deflected back, which makes opponents like Mario or Pit heavily devastating should the player incorrectly time a smash attack.)+1 (Back Throw is basically a finishing move on it's own right.)
+ + +
He weighs the same as Mario. I do agree that he is underrated, but not for those reasons.
I appreciate that someone finally gave the reason "because he's my main" for upvoting their main =)
Really? I'm guessing the difference is jump height, not weight.
SmashWiki or checking out the Dr. Mario character board will probably help you in that situation. They have no difference in weight, Doc just has lower jump height and movement speed.
Holy down-votes, Batman! He really isn't as bad as you guys think. No way she's below DK with her combos and turnip setups. Weird approach options, and his nerfs make him definitely lower than the people on tier 2.
his combo game is wonderful combos for most of his moves
+1 : I've voiced my opinions on Samus multiple times now, so to sum it up in short, I still don't think she is in the bottom tier. +1 : The epitome of a scary character. Combos, power, kill power, great speed, survivability (solid weight stat, a good reaching recovery in Up B and a recovery extender in side B), and mind games. Watch this for example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltU09aKM8Dk - Watch specifically at points such as 10:56 and 15:41. Ryu is just forcing Mario to make an unsafe approach, so he can combo him into his strongest attack... yeah thats right, he can combo into Input Shoryuken, and look how ridiculously early it kills. I think this is a character to watch. If people start to push the character more, it wouldn't surprise me to see him in tier 2 for example in the future. +1 : Maybe I just suck against Toon Link, but I think he has good tools, and deserves to be up there in tier 4. The reactions he can force with his boomerang and bombs are insane. He has a good set of throws that include a decent follow up throw and a good kill throw and miscellaneous stuff include surprisingly good weight for his speed and a Zair. I don't think he is as great as tier 3 (at present, unless people start to push the character more, which I do find unlikely), so I think tier 4 is his home. : It's nice to see people finally realising that Marth isn't trash. Definitely a viable character when played the correct way. Could be near the top of his tier, if not higher. I'd like to see Marth in tier 4, but I think that is unrealistic at the moment. It's possible, but maybe in time... It's heartbreaking losing a stock at 35% at the edge (if you are the Marth player, it feels great) just because he placed a tipper correctly. I want to see more Marth players, showing what he can do. : Even though I think its obvious Marth is better, I don't think there is THAT much different in the two characters. I'd expect them to be in the same tier for example, but with Marth plenty of places above her. : I still don't think he is this low. I don't think he is fantastic, probably tier 5, but not this low. : A similar story to Bowser, but I'm unsure whether he's better or worse than him. At this point in time, I'd actually say he's better. I want to see more people use this character. : I don't know why I'm seeing all the down votes. As a top tier, she probably has the most unfavourable matchups out of them all, but if everyone keeps down voting her because of this, she'll end up in tier 3, which is clearly wrong. Certainly in the top tier/tier 1, but possibly the least reliable out of them all. : I don't think Luigi is in tier 1. IMO, he would be the best character in tier 2. : Regarding the other bro, I think Mario is in just the right place. It's a joy to see the "jack of all trades" finally be a powerful force. : I also think Lucario is in just the right place too. Yes, he has aura, but most of his killing moves are pants to land. I can only think of Aura Sphere into cancelled Up Smash that is reliable, but even then you need to land the initial Aura Sphere. Maybe he could be a little higher up, but not much. : I have taken to playing Zelda a bit more, not as a main, but as a pocket, for fun sort of character. Though I don't think she is going to be moving upwards in the tier list any time soon, she still has a few things going for her. Up Tilt thanks to the buffs can actually combo into itself now, and then into an Up Air. Her smashes are strong, and link now. I like her Ftilt too, has deceptive range, and knockback. Also, DO NOT ATTACK A SHIELDING ZELDA. The elevator is real. Who knows where Zelda will end up. : I don't think DK is tier 3 material. Probably high tier 4, or top of tier 4 in the long run. Yes, Cargo Up Throw to Up Air allows him to have a scary grab, but his neutral is still lacking and predictable. Other than Wario, I think he is the best heavyweight (even though Wario is a heavyweight, he never feels like one to me because of his size).
-1 +1 -1
She's up there because of main bias. People such as Macchieto and Ipoit can't stand saying their main somewhre other than top tier, and will just up vote them no matter what, even if she was in her own tier at the top.
Fox: The character is solid, but I feel he's more in line with Tier 3; he's got a lot of tools, but he really has trouble confirming his kills. I see him being as viable as Falcon and Villager, who rightfully sit in tier 3.
Little Mac: I know his offstage game is horrendous, but it is expanding as time goes on. His ground frame data is super amazing, and he gets 2-3 chances to take your stock with each one of his. Little Mac matches are ramped up in that both players are more likely to lose quickly. As Mac's gain an edgeguard game beyond dsmash, I feel the character could reach as high as Tier 4. But for now, I think Tier 5 is a perfect placement for him in the meta.
WFT: I admit this is bias. What makes this character on the same tier as Kirby or Robin in a Vanilla environment? Could someone fill me in? I'd be glad to retract my vote.
