Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[ChikoLad]

How well did that work for codename S.T.E.A.M. and Amiibo Festival?

With Codename STEAM, it's not because it was a bad game, that was entirely the fault of Nintendo's marketing team, and the fault of whiny Nintentoddlers/elitist speculators.

Not only did they market it poorly in general, but they also pulled that one stunt at E3 2014:

>Announce closed doors press conference for a major new 3DS title
>Say it's a new IP by Intelligent Systems but nobody pays attention to that
>Smash Invitational happens before this conference
>Zelda Williams comes on stage flailing around a Majora's Mask replica
>"OMG GUYS THAT 3DS GAME THEY'RE SHOWING OFF TOMORROW IS OBVIOUSLY MAJORA'S MASK 3D OMG SO HYPE!!!!!! :D"
>Alternatively, people think it's a new Fire Emblem
>The conference happens
>It's not MM3D or Fire Emblem
>"**** YOU NINTENDO I'M BOYCOTTING THAT GAME BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ANNOUNCE WHAT I WANTED YOU TO"

That fiasco alone killed STEAM's chances of selling. It's really unfortunate, because it's one of the best new things Nintendo has put out in years and has a really fresh feel to it, especially for Nintendo.

But it doesn't get the attention it deserves because Nintendo fans are often hypocrites.

Honestly Federation Force is a similar situation. The game looks fine, but people would receive it better if it wasn't Metroid branded.

 

[Arcanir]

Come to think of it, Prime 3 got no music at all in this installment, which is weird since it was the second most recent after Other M. It's even worse considering that the original Metroid got two remixes, and Hunters got one new track, yet Prime 3 had nothing to show for itself music-wise.

It's really a shame it got shafted like that, there are a good number of tracks from that game that would've been great to listen to while battling.

 

[Chrono.]

How well did that work for codename S.T.E.A.M. and Amiibo Festival?

Codename Steam wasn't really panned and its considered an overall good game despite not selling well.

Amiibo festival was dead on arrival by making it Mario Party lite that required amiibo.

Now Nintendo have been kinda hush hush on MPFF which could mean that they might be retooling it somewhat. If Nintendo plays their cards right people could get behind MPFF.

Of course I don't actually think FF will be too successful, but its too early to count it out too.

 

[Kikkipoptart12]

How well did that work for codename S.T.E.A.M. and Amiibo Festival?

Are you trying to say Amiibo Festival is a good game? The game have to be good to be a sleeper hit.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you trying to say Amiibo Festival is a good game? The game have to be good to be a sleeper hit.

He's suggesting the exact opposite, actually. That it was panned and wasn't a sleeper hit.

 

[NintenZ]

Federation Force... I could tell from first glance it wasn't going to do so well... It just looks like one of those generic Eshop games... But actually something I want to bring up, outcry from the fanbase actually did get them their way, remember this?

Yeah, the fans actually hated it so much that it was completely overhauled and made into a more proper Metroid title, and thus,

It came into existence. So I suppose you could say that these petitions and hate letters actually (Ironically) could work and they could overhaul the game. Irony at it's finest.

 

[Burruni]

Are you trying to say Amiibo Festival is a good game? The game have to be good to be a sleeper hit.

Codename S.T.E.A.M. comparison was because of the base amount being capable of solid gameplay, which we've seen from our limited time with MPFF, but had very low expectations going into release.

Amiibo Festival got the same kind of backlash and almost equal in amounts. THAT'S why I brought it up too.

 

[LIQUID12A]

A) The entire basis of these things are off of what we have to date. (edit: The only time I've talked about future matters is K. Rool because his demand is something that's been ongoing from Brawl to Smash 4 in such massive levels I felt it would've been dishonest to neglect mention).

B) It's a general issue with Metroid characters that almost all cases for them begin with "Since we can't/won't get Ridley..."
The fact that he towers over every other character of the series to this level, I can't see someone else getting in for the sake of Metroid's expansion.

C) Say Sylux IS in a Prime 4. That gives him an appearance in 2 Metroid games and one cameo. I very much argue that those do not stack up to major series occurrence. Especially since those two appearances would be spaced over ten years apart. He'd be banking on Prime 4 being a massive game shortly before the roster is chosen to get in like .... except, unlike Fire Emblem or Pokemon, Metroid isn't a series with that kind of Revolving Door cast.

D) A general adjustment to Ridley's physique, I feel, could very well be incentive to even Sakurai if it is one that STICKS.

Sylux's the second most likely Metroid Candidate after Ridley. That I aggree. But I feel like his position isn't significant enough at this point. If in a hypothetical situation he's a rival to Samus in Prime 4 and a "side-kick" through a change of heart in a Prime 5 before Smash 5 happens, he'd damn well rival Ridley. But we don't know what is going to come.

A) And that's perfectly fine.

B) "I can't" is an opinion. You might not be able to, but that doesn't change the objective argument. Sakurai can't see Ridley working. Objectively, he could, but that falls to the director's choice.

C)

It will never compare to Ridley in either three(especially B), I'll give you that, but having two out of three as is ain't bad.

I was giving you this point. And major series occurrence, as you pointed out with your examples, doesn't always come into play.

D) An adjustment that doesn't exist as of now, and we don't know if it will. Also, another subjective point in "I feel". I felt that Bayonetta was not getting in and she's in. Subjectivity means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things as mere fans.

And honestly; Sylux doesn't NEED to rival Ridley in overall popularity to be included. That's very arbitrary criteria for inclusion and one that only exists because of the fanbase's tackiness in "OH RIDLEY BEFORE ANYONE ELSE". And that applies to any series, really. Black Mage could have come before Cloud, Magolor Before Bandanna Dee, Krystal before Wolf, Chrom before Robin, etc. It's just what the fans perceive to happen and a mentality that can very much screw one over.

 

[Naoshi]

With Codename STEAM, it's not because it was a bad game, that was entirely the fault of Nintendo's marketing team, and the fault of whiny Nintentoddlers/elitist speculators.

Not only did they market it poorly in general, but they also pulled that one stunt at E3 2014:

>Announce closed doors press conference for a major new 3DS title
>Say it's a new IP by Intelligent Systems but nobody pays attention to that
>Smash Invitational happens before this conference
>Zelda Williams comes on stage flailing around a Majora's Mask replica
>"OMG GUYS THAT 3DS GAME THEY'RE SHOWING OFF TOMORROW IS OBVIOUSLY MAJORA'S MASK 3D OMG SO HYPE!!!!!! :D"
>Alternatively, people think it's a new Fire Emblem
>The conference happens
>It's not MM3D or Fire Emblem
>"**** YOU NINTENDO I'M BOYCOTTING THAT GAME BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ANNOUNCE WHAT I WANTED YOU TO"

That fiasco alone killed STEAM's chances of selling. It's really unfortunate, because it's one of the best new things Nintendo has put out in years and has a really fresh feel to it, especially for Nintendo.

are you serious

do you really think the initial disappointment from people asking for majoras mask is WHY the STEAM flopped?


i dont even understand this place sometimes

and you do realize that elitism makes up the minority of the market too... right?

 

[Arcanir]

>Announce closed doors press conference for a major new 3DS title
>Say it's a new IP by Intelligent Systems but nobody pays attention to that
>Smash Invitational happens before this conference
>Zelda Williams comes on stage flailing around a Majora's Mask replica
>"OMG GUYS THAT 3DS GAME THEY'RE SHOWING OFF TOMORROW IS OBVIOUSLY MAJORA'S MASK 3D OMG SO HYPE!!!!!! :D"
>Alternatively, people think it's a new Fire Emblem
>The conference happens
>It's not MM3D or Fire Emblem
>"**** YOU NINTENDO I'M BOYCOTTING THAT GAME BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T ANNOUNCE WHAT I WANTED YOU TO"

How can this be Nintendo's fault when they blatantly said that it was a new IP? If fans didn't bother to read up on what was being revealed, then they set themselves up for disappointment, and before you say otherwise, fans do this all of the time (ex. look at any major event with Nintendo and you'd see a lot of comments saying "where's the new Smash character?").

Granted, Nintendo marketed it poorly in other ways, but this particular case they can't really be blamed for, that was on the fans for not containing their hype.

 

[Deleted member]

>2016
>Ridley discussion
>Considering Anthony Higgs for Smash
>Considering Rundas for Smash
>Considering Sylux for Smash
Adam didn't die for this

 

[ChikoLad]

Federation Force... I could tell from first glance it wasn't going to do so well... It just looks like one of those generic Eshop games... But actually something I want to bring up, outcry from the fanbase actually did get them their way, remember this?

Yeah, the fans actually hated it so much that it was completely overhauled and made into a more proper Metroid title, and thus,

It came into existence. So I suppose you could say that these petitions and hate letters actually (Ironically) could work and they could overhaul the game. Irony at it's finest.

Wait, people complained about that?

I don't see what's wrong with it. Seems to have the overall feel of Metroid down and the gravity switching is a pretty natural extension to the Metroid formula.

 

[NintenZ]

Wait, people complained about that?

I don't see what's wrong with it. Seems to have the overall feel of Metroid down and the gravity switching is a pretty natural extension to the Metroid formula.

They complained about it because the character wasn't Samus and it seemed washed out.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yeah, the fans actually hated it so much that it was completely overhauled and made into a more proper Metroid title, and thus,

Do you have a source it was the fans and not the devs?

 

[ChikoLad]

How can this be Nintendo's fault when they blatantly said that it was a new IP? If fans didn't bother to read up on what was being revealed, then they set themselves up for disappointment, and before you say otherwise, fans do this all of the time (ex. look at any major event with Nintendo and you'd see a lot of comments saying "where's the Smash character?").

Granted, Nintendo marketed it poorly in other ways, but this particular case they can't really be blamed for, that was on the fans for not containing their hype.

I think it's partly their fault for pulling that stunt with the Majora's Mask replica, when nothing related to Majora's Mask was being announced at E3 2014.

It's still more on the fans but Nintendo are still to blame for drumming up hype for something they knew they weren't announcing just yet and how they didn't really spread the statement about it being a new IP they were unveiling. They sort of set up the fan reaction that transpired.

are you serious

do you really think the initial disappointment from people asking for majoras mask is WHY the STEAM flopped?


i dont even understand this place sometimes

and you do realize that elitism makes up the minority of the market too... right?

Zelda elitists are a pretty big bunch considering how massive the series is, actually.

 

[NintenZ]

Do you have a source it was the fans and not the devs?

Here are some sources, really old ones,
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/preview/3435/metroid-fusion-game-boy-advance
http://www.ign.com/articles/2001/05/18/e3-metroid-iv-is-here

 

[Naoshi]

or maybe codename steam was gonna flop anyways because barely anyone was interested in it in the end

like really

the assertion that the fanboys is why it flopped makes no sense. like... so what if people were disappointed it wasn't majoras mask? like what? if the tease didnt have the mask then suddenly the game would sell like hotcakes? please


fanboys make up a VERY little percentage of sales

 

[NintenZ]

or maybe codename steam was gonna flop anyways because barely anyone was interested in it in the end

like really

Imo, the characters from CNS never really felt interesting to me, and I always felt them more interesting in their source material. It kinda felt a bit boring if you ask me. Plus I was never a fan of the art style.

 

[epicmartin7]

Welp. GameXplain's misleading people again.

They're saying its a rumor in the video while the person who said it was just an industry analyst .

 

[A Distant Demon]

Here are some sources, really old ones,
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/preview/3435/metroid-fusion-game-boy-advance
http://www.ign.com/articles/2001/05/18/e3-metroid-iv-is-here

Mind pointing out where it says the devs changes things after fan demand?

 

[Burruni]

I think it's partly their fault for pulling that stunt with the Majora's Mask replica, when nothing related to Majora's Mask was being announced at E3 2014.

It's still more on the fans but Nintendo are still to blame for drumming up hype for something they knew they weren't announcing just yet and how they didn't really spread the statement about it being a new IP they were unveiling. They sort of set up the fan reaction that transpired.



Zelda elitists are a pretty big bunch considering how massive the series is, actually.

Meanwhile.
Splatoon shown off the same year.
Massive amount of people fawn over it, rivaling the lines for the Smash demo that was currently out.
Quite possibly.
It's the matter of the game.
Not a build up to it.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

But actually something I want to bring up, outcry from the fanbase actually did get them their way, remember this?

Huh. I didn't even know that existed.

Looks kinda interesting actually, IMO.

 

[ChikoLad]

or maybe codename steam was gonna flop anyways because barely anyone was interested in it in the end

like really

the assertion that the fanboys is why it flopped makes no sense. like... so what if people were disappointed it wasn't majoras mask? like what? if the tease didnt have the mask then suddenly the game would sell like hotcakes? please

If you make a bad impression with core fans from the get go, then yeah, that game is guaranteed to flop. Why should anyone else buy your game if the core fanbase won't?

Elitists have more influence than you are letting on, especially when it comes to a new IP from an existing company who has only recently made something super successful (FE: Awakening).

Instead of just doing the smart thing and not being overly ambitious by announcing STEAM in the Digital Event, they instead did all of these contrived things to drum up hype for it that ended up backfiring. It doomed the game from the start, it wasn't going to recover after that.

Meanwhile.
Splatoon shown off the same year.
Massive amount of people fawn over it, rivaling the lines for the Smash demo that was currently out.
Quite possibly.
It's the matter of the game.
Not a build up to it.

Read the above paragraphs.

What Nintendo did with Splatoon was what they should have also done with STEAM.

They just flat out announced it in the Digital Event which everyone was watching, and then gave it a load of demos on the floor.

With STEAM, they quietly announced it behind closed doors, and set up the few core fans who knew of the event to expect something different (even if it was accidental).

 

[Naoshi]

somehow i doubt steam's potential audience was only zelda fans

lol

you are really over inflating the backlash of the game. in fact, i hardly see much backlash of the game after the reveal. almost everyone i know wasnt just plain interested in it, some even tried the demo and became even more disinterested

 

[NintenZ]

Mind pointing out where it says the devs changes things after fan demand?

They never said that...
The fixations towards the criticisms are actually quite obvious, such as the graphics, story and main character.

 

[A Distant Demon]

They never said that...
The fixations towards the criticisms are actually quite obvious, such as the graphics, story and main character.

So you're speculating but acting like it is assuredly true.

Ok then.

 

[Champ Gold]

somehow i doubt steam's potential audience was only zelda fans

lol

you are really over inflating the backlash of the game. in fact, i hardly see much backlash of the game after the reveal. almost everyone i know wasnt just plain interested in it, some even tried the demo and became even more disinterested

Most of that backlash is because it didn't look interesting from the artstyle, mad Advance Wars fans and small portion of Zelda fans who wanted MM 3D which they gotten an announcement for MONTHS later

 

[Naoshi]

Most of that backlash is because it didn't look interesting from the artstyle, mad Advance Wars fans and small portion of Zelda fans who wanted MM 3D which they gotten an announcement for MONTHS later

i mean THE backlash hes referring to. the one where he thinks zelda fans are why the game flopped.

the game itself has backlashes on its own merit afterwards.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've never even any seen "backlash" towards STEAM. Or any powerful negative opinions on it.

At most I've merely seen disinterest.

 

[ChikoLad]

somehow i doubt steam's potential audience was only zelda fans

lol

you are really over inflating the backlash of the game. in fact, i hardly see much backlash of the game after the reveal. almost everyone i know wasnt just plain interested in it, some even tried the demo and became even more disinterested

Except you're ignoring how I also mentioned Fire Emblem fans.

Again, FE: Awakening is the ONLY breakout success Intelligent Systems had. When people heard "new game from Intelligent Systems" (the Zelda fans didn't even catch that much), they assumed it would be Fire Emblem. But it wasn't so they got mad.

...Even though the game has four fully fledged Fire Emblem characters anyway.

i mean THE backlash hes referring to. the one where he thinks zelda fans are why the game flopped.

Again please read my posts properly. Zelda fans were not the entirety of my point.

 

[Naoshi]

Except you're ignoring how I also mentioned Fire Emblem fans.

Again, FE: Awakening is the ONLY breakout success Intelligent Systems had. When people heard "new game from Intelligent Systems" (the Zelda fans didn't even catch that much), they assumed it would be Fire Emblem. But it wasn't so they got mad.

...Even though the game has four fully fledged Fire Emblem characters anyway.

it doesnt matter, does it? you honestly think the game flopped because of elitism, and not because people were just not interested at all on the game's own merit.

but whatever, im dropping this. enjoy thinking this way.

I've never even any seen "backlash" towards STEAM. Or any powerful negative opinions on it.

At most I've merely seen disinterest.

this

hardly anyone cares, regardless of what some FE and zelda fans thinks

 

[Deleted member]

Why would anyone expect a new FE game on E3 2014 when Fates had just been announced?
I'll say it's dumb to reveal Steam on that even instead of the actual presentation but most fans set themselves up for disapointment

 

[ChikoLad]

it doesnt matter, does it? you honestly think the game flopped because of elitism, and not because people were just not interested at all.

but whatever, im dropping this. enjoy thinking this way.


this

hardly anyone cares, regardless of what some FE and zelda fans thinks

Like I already pointed out, due to the way Codename STEAM was announced, the only people who KNEW of it's announcement were core fans and elitists, who were all set up to think it would be something else, and made it awkward to even find out what the game was about, especially considering the lack of demo stands. With that in mind, yes, the initial backlash from those core fans killed the game, because if you can't get core fans hooked, why would anyone else have interest?

Meanwhile, Splatoon gets a full segment explaining the game in the main presentation Nintendo had at E3, and Splatoon had tons of demo stands.

 

[NintenZ]

So you're speculating but acting like it is assuredly true.

Ok then.

No...

It's quite obvious that the changes were made towards criticism...

The main criticisms were towards the graphics and character designs, both of which are changed in the final game. It was also critisized for it's disorienting gameplay, which was also removed.

So it's actually quite obvious.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Codename Steam's failure purely has to do with Codename STEAM looking average and it's varying level of advertisement and maybe the genre/artstyle.

There is nothing else that is a factor.

No...

It's quite obvious that the changes were made towards criticism...

The main criticisms were towards the graphics and character designs, both of which are changed in the final game. It was also critisized for it's disorienting gameplay, which was also removed.

So it's actually quite obvious.

Saying "things were changed because of fan demand" and not having a source doesnt make it obvious. Things get drastically changed in early plans all the time. You have no source and no leg to stand on.

Especially for graphics and design which go through a lot of changes

 

[Coricus]

I don't know about anyone else, but I only turned up my nose at Codename: S.T.E.A.M. because I don't care for steampunk. Then the Fire Emblem Amiibo compatibility made me curious, I tried the demo, and. . .eeeeeeehhhhh, I got pretty bored playing it.

Like, I heard that they patched in the main fix the game needed to not be obnoxious later on, but by that point any interest I had in it had passed. Without characters I care for OR gameplay I care for, what really is left?

 

[Chrono.]

STEAM flopped because people weren't interested. That's all.

Sometimes things just flop no matter what kind of ads it gets.

And it's not like Nintendo didn't try, they constantly showed it off in Directs and the like.

 

[Naoshi]

I remember all the hype W101 had, people were pumped up for the game. They even had a Kamiya Direct for it and got people even more excited for it!!!





cue bad sales

 

[ChikoLad]

STEAM flopped because people weren't interested. That's all.

Sometimes things just flop no matter what kind of ads it gets.

And it's not like Nintendo didn't try, they constantly inserted it in Directs and the like.

After the initial, terrible manner with which they revealed the game.

Again. If you don't hook your core fans by the initial reveal, it's done.

It's like if SEGA announced the next Sonic game and it was so different a la Rise of Lyric (people won't tolerate an overly new and deviating game after Rise of Lyric right now, ESPECIALLY for the 25th Anniversary), nobody in the core fanbase cared for it, leading to nobody outside of it caring.

That's literally what happened with STEAM.

 

[Chrono.]

I remember all the hype W101 had, people were pumped up for the game. They even had a Kamiya Direct for it and got people even more excited for it!!!





cue bad sales

I blame this one on the bad rep of the Wii U.