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Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

Should we add a poll to the thread?


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Burruni

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Is it okay to say that the Sonic fanbase is kinda weird?
Every fanbase is weird.
Sonic's is just one that catches the most ire. In part because it's one targetted to younger audiences and that most of the cast is questionable in the nature of being animals. Part that it's just a running joke.

Hordes and hordes and hordes of Pokemon material is worse, it just isn't made as public.
 

ChikoLad

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The Nintendo fanbase/Smash fanbase is far weirder and worse overall than the Sonic fanbase has ever gotten.

And by fanbase, I mean their bad eggs.
 

ChikoLad

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Are you sure about that?
Yes, very sure.

SammyClassicSonicFan is stupid but he's largely inoffensive and there is nothing to take seriously.

Same goes with a lot of bad Sonic fans, weird Sonic fan art, etc. You can mostly laugh at it's weirdness.

But a lot of what I see with in the Nintendo and Smash fanbase is either really mean spirited or actually effects people. And is often disturbing or frustrating.
 
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NintenZ

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Yes, very sure.

SammyClassicSonicFan is stupid but he's largely inoffensive and there is nothing to take seriously.

Same goes with a lot of bad Sonic fans, weird Sonic fan art.

But a lot of what I see with in the Nintendo and Smash fanbase is either really mean spirited or actually effects people.
I see. Well then I rest my case.
 

NintenZ

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Just remember.
Someone spent THOUSANDS of dollars on RosaLuma amiibos.
So that her fans couldn't get them.
Because she's a hentai character.
I'm well aware...
And I'm actually somewhat glad that some female characters didn't get in Smash because otherwise he'd call them all hentei.
 

ChikoLad

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I couldn't care less if he calls her hentai or if some people think she's some sort of waifu bait since those are objectively wrong statements since they apply to Rosalina less than most video game characters, certainly less than some of Nintendo's other females.

But yeah, stuff like hoarding stock of a product that people want just so they can't have it is not cool.
 

Fenriraga

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I'm well aware of how Sakurai doesn't just look at 1v1, but the same applies, especially going off of the Screw Attack.



Again, you're decontextualising and singling out my statements.

I said that his opinion is wrong because literally everyone else disagrees with it for factual reasons, and based on analyses performed by various people.

It's also worth nothing that literally EVERY player at the Invitational disagreed with him and had the opposite stance. While nobody played as her in the Invitational itself, all of the players got a whole day to play the game before the Invitational and could try out any character they pleased, both 1v1 and FFA...which explains why Samus isn't represented in the Invitational, nobody thought she was viable (keeping in mind the Invitational was both 1v1 and FFA...primarily FFA actually). The video below represents this.


And while it may be his "opinion", opinions can indeed be wrong or nonsensical if they don't reflect the facts on the subject matter, and therefore, they are invalid. This appears to be the case with Sakurai's statement on Samus in the E3 build. Literally nothing supports the claim and all facts indicate that the opposite is true.



I haven't seen any videos of it KO'ing from particularly early percentages in the E3 build, and it's primarily a move designed for trying to KO people already in the air anyway. On it's own, it wouldn't make Samus the best in the game, especially since it leaves you in free fall. This is a move that definitely isn't as powerful as any of Bowser's strongest moves even in the E3 build, and leaves you WAY more open due to propelling you in the air and leaving you in free fall. Even if it was stronger than it is now, Screw Attack didn't make Samus the best in the E3 build, not by a long shot.
They literally had a DAY to play the game. How many times have we as a community stated that a day is not enough time to determine someone's Meta? Especially for a completely new game/engine. You know that better than anyone. pretty sure even the pros aren't silly enough to come to that conclusion after a singletter day.

As well, he could have been talking about the current development build, not the E3 build. After all, he played a match with Pac Man, so obviously that was a later build of the game.
 
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Substitution

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Meh, I stopped caring about either of them. It's 2016, and both have aged just as well as old cheese. So why do we keep throwing it around?
 

Burruni

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I'm well aware...
And I'm actually somewhat glad that some female characters didn't get in Smash because otherwise he'd call them all hentei.
That's implying that any female that gets into Smash doesn't have an eruption of fanart in all shapes and forms.

:4wiifit: being the biggest example and we all know it.
 

Dravidian

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I can understand that but Brawl is probably the worst with its balance despite having a team. Casually and competitively.

I can have massive fun with Link, Ness, Mario and Ganondorf in Melee but I can't do that with Brawl
Well that's pretty subjective. I loved playing as Ness and occasionally Link and Ganondorf in brawl, but I thought they felt like saggy booty in Melee: still enjoyable but not as good.

Yes, very sure.

SammyClassicSonicFan is stupid but he's largely inoffensive and there is nothing to take seriously.

Same goes with a lot of bad Sonic fans, weird Sonic fan art, etc. You can mostly laugh at it's weirdness.

But a lot of what I see with in the Nintendo and Smash fanbase is either really mean spirited or actually effects people. And is often disturbing or frustrating.
Wasn't there that one dude that maced a gamestop employee after vandalizing their Sonic advertisements and merchandise?
 
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ChikoLad

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They literally had a DAY to play the game. How many times have we as a community stated that a day is not enough time to determine someone's Meta pretty sure even the pros aren't silly enough to come to that conclusion after a singletter day.

As well, he could have been talking about the current development build, not the E3 build. After all, he played a match with Pac Man, so obviously that was a later build of the game.
You can't know the characters completely in a day, but you can get a general idea of the very best and the very worst pretty easily. It's everyone in between that's difficult. Even ZeRo said this in his Final Destination discussion with Etika.

Samus' flaws were apparent from day one and overall she was never viewed as much better than in past games. Similarly, people saw how good Sheik was from day one. And like I said earlier, it was apparent even as early as E3 that Rosalina and Villager would serve to counter Samus so absurdly well anyway.

And no, it was specified they meant the E3 build. The Treehouse team mentioned this too.
 
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D

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The almighty Blizzard King finally falls
The counter spamming three-headed freak lost half of its HP thanks to some setup and a jar containing a Storm
After that it was a matter of shielding his moves and spamming my best skills

That's implying that any female that gets into Smash doesn't have an eruption of fanart in all shapes and forms.

:4wiifit: being the biggest example and we all know it.
Well, any character gets a bunch of fanart when they are revealed
If we are only talking about THAT kind of fanart, then yeah, unfortunately
 

Fenriraga

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You can't know the characters completely in a day, but you can get a general idea of the very best and the very worst pretty easily. It's everyone in between that's difficult. Even ZeRo said this in his Final Destination discussion with Etika.

Samus' flaws were apparent from day one and overall she was never viewed as much better than in past games. Similarly, people saw how good Sheik was from day one. And like I said earlier, it was apparent even as early as E3 that Rosalina and Villager would serve to counter Samus so absurdly well anyway.

And no, it was specified they meant the E3 build. The Treehouse team mentioned this too.
Oh come on, they couldn't have known then anyway!! It's not like the Invitational was won by a top tier charac-


....****.

Well that's pretty subjective. I loved playing as Ness and occasionally Link and Ganondorf in brawl, but I thought they felt like saggy booty in Melee: still enjoyable but not as good.



Wasn't there that one dude that maced a gamestop employee after vandalizing their Sonic advertisements and merchandise?
Yeah but that was Chris Chan. Even Sonic's official twitter/Webber knows he's scraped from the bottom of humanity's barrel.
 
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Z25

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I just get 404'd whenever i try to see it.
Well its gone now. It detailed some secret NX event.

Listed new DK, new metroid, new mario, smash bro NX, mario and friends kart A new diddy kong racing. As launch titles for Nintendo Cross and Nintendo TV, the things the NX would be.

It listed general info on the console and 3rd party plans as well for the console. A lot of it sounded pipe dreamish.
 

Dravidian

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You can't know the characters completely in a day, but you can get a general idea of the very best and the very worst pretty easily. It's everyone in between that's difficult. Even ZeRo said this in his Final Destination discussion with Etika.

Samus' flaws were apparent from day one and overall she was never viewed as much better than in past games. Similarly, people saw how good Sheik was from day one. And like I said earlier, it was apparent even as early as E3 that Rosalina and Villager would serve to counter Samus so absurdly well anyway.

And no, it was specified they meant the E3 build. The Treehouse team mentioned this too.
With all due respect, that's only a base idea of how things start out. New tech (both universal and character specific) generally gets discovered and different characters can apply that tech in different ways. Additionally, people learn to adapt. Using MVC2 as an example, Iceman was consider OP due to his chip damage and Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel weren't high on tier list, but then people figured out how to beat iceman (he had low mobility) and then the unfly tech was found

Plus in modern games there's always balance adjustments.

I mean you mention Sheik, but you didn't mention Diddy, whom people once thought was broken. Things change can change so much over a games lifetime. Saying anyone has a good idea of every characters' full potential from day one is too bold of a statement imo.
 

Substitution

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Not gonna lie, I find the idea that it's better for a character not to get in Smash because porn is ridiculous.
What people do is their business, and certainly shouldn't ruin a character because some guy thew around their breasts.
 

ChikoLad

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Chris Chan was notorious for being incredibly unhinged. He wasn't even just a "Sonic fanbase" thing, he was his own thing entirely.

With all due respect, that's only a base idea of how things start out. New tech (both universal and character specific) generally gets discovered and different characters can apply that tech in different ways. Additionally, people learn to adapt. Using MVC2 as an example, Iceman was consider OP due to his chip damage and Magneto, Storm, and Sentinel weren't high on tier list, but then people figured out how to beat iceman (he had low mobility) and then the unfly tech was found

Plus in modern games there's always balance adjustments.

I mean you mention Sheik, but you didn't mention Diddy, whom people once thought was broken. Things change can change so much over a games lifetime. Saying anyone has a good idea of every characters' full potential from day one is too bold of a statement imo.
I didn't say people could see a character's full potential, but just the general idea of who's REALLY good and REALLY bad. Sheik's frame data (or lack thereof) is largely why she is so good and she had that in the demo. It's an obvious thing that anyone can see.

Also Diddy wasn't in either of the E3 demos. Similarly, very few people were saying Rosalina was one of the best in the game because the only people who got extensive time with her at E3 were those with behind closed doors sessions with the Wii U build. This is because Rosalina wasn't in the 3DS build. Rosalina also is good for much more complex and unique reasons than most other characters.


 
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PushDustIn

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I feel that the online Smash fanbase is a lot younger compared to some of the other fanbase. Average age in my poll was 19. I wonder what it'd look like for other series...I have a feeling Mario is the oldest dedicated fanbase (people who regularly talk Mario).

Because some people are so young, they are immature. So arguments are more emotional and based on pure opinion ("because I said so" arguments) while lacking any logic behind them. Also, the amount of hype the community has could also blind us (like the Ridley is going to get in! Or Wolf is going to get in! Groups). There's also the divided community, with some sides actively hating each other.

I think all those issues could be fixed in time. It'll be a mixture of people growing up, and the community becoming more accepting. Maybe I'm just an optimistic.
 
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Fenriraga

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For the record, I also recall that the 2nd place winner used Kirby. Kirby certainly isn't bottom tier, but how often do you see a Kirby in tourneys these days? ESPECIALLY pre-F-throw buff Kirby and his preceeding versions.

I feel that the online Smash fanbase is a lot younger compared to some of the other fanbase. Average age in my poll was 19. I wonder what it'd look like for other series...I have a feeling Mario is the oldest dedicated fanbase (people who regularly talk Mario).

Because some people are so young, they are immature. So arguments are more emotional and based on pure opinion ("because I said so" arguments) while lacking any logic behind them. Also, the amount of hype the community has could also blind us (like the Ridley is going to get in! Or Wolf is going to get in! Groups). There's also the divided community, with some sides actively hating each other.

I think all those issues could be fixed in time. It'll be a mixture of people growing up, and the community becoming more accepting. Maybe I'm just an optimistic.
Smash 4 has definitely seen the largest influx of "competitive" players in the shortest amount of time as of late at least. Part of it could be timing, the growth of the notiritiy community since Melee, part of it could be Nintendo becoming slightly more involved in competitive Smash, part of it could be people who still think for glory is genuine practice and males them MLG, or how Smash 4 is a decent median between tec-heavy Melee and accessible Brawl.

But the youngins are certainly piling up, yeah.
 
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Chrono.

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Why do ppl keep bringing up SammyClassicSonicFan.

I thought it was well known that he faked everything.
 

ChikoLad

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For the record, I also recall that the 2nd place winner used Kirby. Kirby certainly isn't bottom tier, but how often do you see a Kirby in tourneys these days? ESPECIALLY pre-F-throw buff Kirby and his preceeding versions.
Like I said, it's only really the VERY best and the VERY worst characters that people can determine early on. Kirby falls into neither.
 

AreJay25

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Remember when Boswer was going to be one of the best characters in the game?

Good times.
 
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ChikoLad

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Remember when Boswer was going to be the best character in the game?

Good times.
That was mostly just casuals who thought that, which is how it always is. In early Brawl days, casuals thought Ike was the best. Casual players tend to think hard hitting characters that are heavy are the best. This might be due to those characters actually being quite good in FFAs.
 
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Fenriraga

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Man, you're making me remember the 3ds Boston con tournament.
Good god that was a cringe fest.
 
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ChikoLad

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Oh yeah, Chrono. Chrono. , would you be able to tell me where you got those sweet renders in your avatar and sig? They look fantastic.

Man, you're making me remember the 3ds Boston con tournament.
Good god that was a cringe fest.
I honestly thought that tournament was really funny.

Bowser having his time in the Smash limelight was also cute. :3
 

Fenriraga

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Oh yeah, Chrono. Chrono. , would you be able to tell me where you got those sweet renders in your avatar and sig? They look fantastic.



I honestly thought that tournament was really funny.

Bowser having his time in the Smash limelight was also cute. :3
Hilarious for all the wrong reasons, yeah. Zangief would be proud at least.

But yeah, was interesting to see Bowser.
 

AreJay25

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ffs

i thought we were done with this ****

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3zr27q/smash_bros_news_in_nintendo_direct_coming_on/

That was mostly just casuals who thought that, which is how it always is. In early Brawl days, casuals thought Ike was the best. Casual players tend to think hard hitting characters that are heavy are the best. This might be due to those characters actually being quite good in FFAs.
True. Although I distinctly remember some competitive players giving him some praise. ZeRo in particular thought he was pretty good (but then again it's ZeRo).
 

Fenriraga

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ffs

i thought we were done with this ****

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3zr27q/smash_bros_news_in_nintendo_direct_coming_on/


True. Although I distinctly remember some competitive players giving him some praise. ZeRo in particular thought he was pretty good (but then again it's ZeRo).
I predicted Wolf the minute I saw that title. Not over till it's over, AreJay.

Also there's no way in hell Nintendo would have an N64 game and a Gamecube game at the same price. That'd be all kinds of dumb from a buisness perspective.

Also his username is NintendoLeaker. I think this is legit guyz.
 
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Burruni

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I predicted Wolf the minute I saw that title. Not over till it's over, AreJay.

Also there's no way in hell Nintendo would have an N64 game and a Gamecube game at the same price. That'd be all kinds of dumb from a buisness perspective.

Also his username is NintendoLeaker. I think this is legit guyz.
N64 game randomly sold at $5.10.
Mario Golf still sold at $9.99

Like...
Do a single thing to make this believable.
 

wedl!!

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Except that Rosalina isn't as strong as Luma anyways and is much weaker without it. Being extremely light is a perfectly fine punishment for someone breaking her zone (which not a lot of characters can attest to doing consistently).

Besides: if a character can kill you at early percents (lol luma, lol uair) it's fair for her to be a featherweight to compensate.

Melee and 64 are terribly balanced and were balanced by Sakurai alone.

At least with Brawl and Smash for Wii U/3DS he had a team (a relatively small team).
64 has the same amount of characters in its roster that Brawl does truly competitively viable (and even then 12 is a finicky number). Despite Brawl having 3x the playable characters. Team didn't really do much. 64 also has around 10 viable characters (despite power gaps being semi-obvious), and only one truly busted character in Pikachu.

Brawl's balance is almost a two and a half king monarchy: there's Meta Knight sitting atop the Meta Knight-masked throne, and Ice Climbers sitting on the frozen throne not far below him, but still comfortably at the top. Diddy, Olimar, Marth, Snake, and Falco are the Royal Guard: they don't share the same diplomatic powers but still can do damage. Below them are the infantry, which could be considered as Yellow Tall Ratata, Blue Lucario, Pingu, Naked Samus, and Yellow Luigi. These soldiers seem intimidating but don't really equal anyone above them overall (although they have dumb things, like Dedede's down throw). The militia (who are... worthless in the grand scheme of things but are good at a domestic level; locals, essentially) is like... Game and Watch, Fox, Peach, Sheik, and Pit, maybe Wolf. After that is the plebian tier where the characters are essentially worthless for one reason or another. The militia is close enough to the plebian tier though.

For the record, Ganondorf is in dead bum tier with Bowser.
 
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Kikkipoptart12

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ffs

i thought we were done with this ****

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3zr27q/smash_bros_news_in_nintendo_direct_coming_on/


True. Although I distinctly remember some competitive players giving him some praise. ZeRo in particular thought he was pretty good (but then again it's ZeRo).
as long as people still believe these leaks will continue. Sakurai should just come out and say there is no more DLC old or new comers after :4corrin:and :4bayonetta: and anyone that say there are are lying and they will be cooked on his grill and to be fed to his cat, and He should follow through with it so people can't say he was troll.
 

Shroob

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Once the Corrin/Bayo patch comes out and shows that there's no more placeholder slots, I have a feeling that leaks will, hopefully, die.
 

wedl!!

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I legitimately want Sakurai to add slots just to mess with people.

Although it would leave a large hole in my heart because even though he has no chance, it coulda been the biggest boss of all. ;_;
 
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