Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Roaring Salsa]

I decided to play Splatoon and found this:

Callie can never catch a break from Marie, can she?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

So earlier today I was playing team matches on for glory. Needless to say, I learned that Cloud and Ness( even though the ness was spammy) can make a pretty terrifying combo. I felt kind of bad for the outcome here, but at the same time it's hilarious:

Also please mind the quality, I shot it with my laptop camera. Which is also the staticey sound you hear, it's motor was running slightly loud.

I think this could actually become like the villager and Ness combos people have been doing. As long as the ness player doesn't spam like this.

You know you can upload replays directly to Youtube from the Replay menu itself, right? As long as it's under 3 minutes, you don't have to hold a camera up to the TV.

Neways, nice job getting a guy to try and rage quit a timed match.

 

[PushDustIn]

I got enough salt form my Reaction Video to the direct.

Wolf fans can't do any worse than Fire Emblem fans.

We are putting that to the test.

If anyone says "BUT SAKURAI IS A TROLL" please tell them to submit their proof of claim to me. That's my next project as "Salt Lord". Already made good progress within the reddit thread will do a proper write up soon.

 

[Chrono.]

You know you can upload replays directly to Youtube from the Replay menu itself, right? As long as it's under 3 minutes, you don't have to hold a camera up to the TV.

Neways, nice job getting a guy to try and rage quit a timed match.

Not on 3DS I believe.

 

[Z25]

You know you can upload replays directly to Youtube from the Replay menu itself, right? As long as it's under 3 minutes, you don't have to hold a camera up to the TV.

Neways, nice job getting a guy to try and rage quit a timed match.

From the 3ds? I knew about the wii u, but I didn't know it could be done from the 3ds( if so).
And thanks!
And why are we arguing about how speed is important to Sonic?

I decided to play Splatoon and found this:

Callie can never catch a break from Marie, can she?

Where was this after the Smash Direct? It would have been perfect. In fact if Splatoon ever gets a stage in any smash, it needs to be this one; so I could tell all the salty fans to go play it.

 

[Champ Gold]

As 2015 comes to a close, there's one last thing to comment on.


Last year, I on 4chan at one point that Konami was on a roll in 2014 with MGSV and Silent Hills that at this point, they would look like kings in 2015.



Come 2015

Spoiler

Was the biggest and most epic of all failures of a company from a gigantic PR disaster that last from March til now.

Kojima's fallout
Silent Hills cancellation and PT being pulled from PSN
The Pachinko machines of popular franchises
The constant mistreatment of employees and people who were long time members of their company
The truth about them leaving video game consoles and PCs for mobile and pachinko

And the biggest kicker is that all of your favorite Konami Franchises are probably screwed. Especially with the combination of Kojima working with Sony now and the Bloodstained Kickstarter

 

[A Distant Demon]

Someone just called Ike a Marth semi clone. Fire Emblem causes people to stop using basic logic. . .

Playing more and more XCX. First time in a while I got totally lost and explored an area. And I loved it. Noctilum is beautiful and running around is fantastic even though I have no idea where im going.


Also have some VGM. The music group I made is still dead and I feel like posting.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dear Jubileus, I'm hooked with Bayonetta. After Burner Kick is sooo fun

 

[Pazzo.]

Dear Jubileus, I'm hooked with Bayonetta. After Burner Kick is sooo fun

I see what you did there.

Someone just called Ike a Marth semi clone. Fire Emblem causes people to stop using basic logic. . .

Maybe if they played the series, logic would be restored.

Now's just as good a time as any. Phoenix Mode is going to be the love of Visual Novel fans everywhere.

 

[Bedoop]

You know you can upload replays directly to Youtube from the Replay menu itself, right?

Stop tainting their innocent soul with your lies.

 

[Schnee117]

Someone just called Ike a Marth semi clone. Fire Emblem causes people to stop using basic logic. . .

Is this the same guy that whined about Counter being OP before?
If so you're wasting time with him.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is this the same guy that whined about Counter being OP before?
If so you're wasting time with him.

If you say Counters are OP, you're nothing but a little pile of scrubiness imo

 

[Burb]

Someone just called Ike a Marth semi clone. Fire Emblem causes people to stop using basic logic. . .

I've heard that a lot in the past, especially back in the days of Brawl, and the point of pre-SSB4 when people were sure Ike was going to get cut.

Same goes for Lucario being a Mewtwo semi-clone.

 

[Luigi The President]

Ness is Vivi

Vivi is playing with Cloud, a Final Fantasy character

FINAL FANTASY IX REMAKE CONFIRMED

It's still Mario regardless. I just have a really deep dislike for two characters to be the exact same person. I mean...look at what they did with Mario Kart (Mario/Metal Mario/Tanooki Mario) - three of the EXACT same characters here -_-

Ooh, Jack Frost! I forgot about him!


...how would he work again?


One of the biggest reasons I am looking forward to that time: I will be graduating in May 2017!

Graduation gift confirmed!

..How WOULDN'T he work? I made a moveset for him but it's pretty big. But if you want me to, I'll ppost his specials.

 

[Champ Gold]

I've heard that a lot in the past, especially back in the days of Brawl, and the point of pre-SSB4 when people were sure Ike was going to get cut.

Same goes for Lucario being a Mewtwo semi-clone.

Someone just called Ike a Marth semi clone. Fire Emblem causes people to stop using basic logic. . .

Playing more and more XCX. First time in a while I got totally lost and explored an area. And I loved it. Noctilum is beautiful and running around is fantastic even though I have no idea where im going.


Also have some VGM. The music group I made is still dead and I feel like posting.

And besides I heard even stupider things:


"HEY GUISE, IS A CLONE"

Lost many brain cells that day

 

[Chrono.]

One time Megaman was gonna be a Samus clone.

 

[Bedoop]

Once upon a tuesday was a clone
Because the both shoot the fires, have a jumpy punch and spin a lot
C L N E S

 

[AreJay25]

I remember when Ryu was going to be a clone of Little Mac.

Because Little Mac totally does Hadouken's and Tatsumaki's.

 

[Deleted member]

One guy during pre release said Greninja was a Lucario clone
Somewhat paraphrased:
"They both have a chargeable projectile, a counter and a launching recovery. Only their Side-B is different"

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Once upon a time, King Dedede was a Kirby clone because they both have Inhale as their standard special.

And then that person lost all credibility for their statement.

And they all lived happily ever after. Except for that one person.

The end!

 

[Curious Villager]

Sometimes I feel like some Smash fans have a little too much of a paranoia with clones.....

I guess that's one of the few things Melee didn't do to well with.....

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This review of static shock talk about how they turned Richie from gay to implied straight

But I distinctly remember one episode where static asks Richie why he's never seen him with a girl before and Richie gets really nervous and changes the subject

And Richie really never does hook up with a girl in the series

 

[A Distant Demon]

Sometimes I feel like some Smash fans have a little too much of a paranoia

You could have just stopped right there and still be right

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Once upon a time, King Dedede was a Kirby clone because they both have Inhale as their standard special.

And then that person lost all credibility for their statement.

And they all lived happily ever after. Except for that one person.

The end!

By that logic Kirby is a clone of everyone he has every fighters B Move

 

[Chrono.]

Sometimes I feel like some Smash fans have a little too much of a paranoia with clones.....

I guess that's one of the few things Melee didn't do to well with.....

Tbh I feel that's the case with Smash fans who don't play other fighters.

Derivatives and "clones" have always been a thing in them.

 

[Dravidian]

By that logic Kirby is a clone of everyone he has every fighters B Move

Of course.
The only thing that could possibly be more cloney than Kirby is a Ditto as random select that happens to pick Kirby.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Of course.
The only thing that could possibly be more cloney than Kirby is a Ditto as random select that happens to pick Kirby.

Ditto's in melee

 

[Curious Villager]

Tbh I feel that's the case with Smash fans who don't play other fighters.

Derivatives and "clones" have always been a thing in them.

I kinda feel that way because the clones in Melee was probably one of the biggest complaints people had with that game so it probably made some people a little too obsessed with pointing their guns at some characters even if they had just one thing in common with another or because they "felt" they would be clone material.

Like, I've actually seen some people call Charizard a Bowser clone just because they can both breathe fire and Rosalina and Bowser jr weren't given much thought pre reveal because they expected them to end up as clones of Peach and Bowser.....

But yeah, it probably may also have to do with some fans not being familiar with the fighting game genre outside of Smash. But at the same time, I don't think Sakurai would resort to deliberately making any new clones unless he was short on time or (in Melee's case) feeling that the roster wasn't big enough.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I remember the times when Lucario was set to be a Mewtwo clone


The world was on fire that night

 

[A Distant Demon]

Honestly the "clone issue" would be less of a problem for Smash 4 if those characters didnt happen to come from "overrepped" series.

Very few people complain about Doc but Roy Dark Pit and Lucina? RIP

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Obviously R.O.B is a clone of Metroid. They both have laser beams

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Honestly the "clone issue" would be less of a problem for Smash 4 if those characters didnt happen to come from "overrepped" series.

Very few people complain about Doc but Roy Dark Pit and Lucina? RIP

Is it bad I'm in the minority that I'm not complaining about Roy and Lucina at the moment? I knew there were going to be some similarities and all, just hope they got something done for 5mash


Now Ganondorf on the other hand...dude needs some help. BAD

 

[A Distant Demon]

Is it bad I'm in the minority that I'm not complaining about Roy and Lucina at the moment?

No. Because 90% of the anti Roy/Lucina arguments are trash.

Of course i was a huge Lucina supporter and huge Roy supporter so I might be a biiiiit biased

 

[Chrono.]

I kinda feel that way because the clones in Melee was probably one of the biggest complaints people had with that game so it probably made some people a little too obsessed with pointing their guns at some characters even if they had just one thing in common with another or because they "felt" they would be clone material.

Like, I've actually seen some people call Charizard a Bowser clone just because they can both breathe fire and Rosalina and Bowser jr weren't given much thought pre reveal because they expected them to end up as clones of Peach and Bowser.....

But yeah, it probably may also have to do with some fans not being familiar with the fighting game genre outside of Smash. But at the same time, I don't think Sakurai would resort to deliberately making any new clones unless he was short on time or (in Melee's case) feeling that the roster wasn't big enough.

In some cases he did.

Most notably Luigi in 64 and Lucas in Brawl (not a full clone, but he's still a derivative), though they are definitely a minority (and Luigi is a special case).

just felt like adding that I don't disagree with the post

 

[Oasis Dealer]

I kinda feel that way because the clones in Melee was probably one of the biggest complaints people had with that game so it probably made some people a little too obsessed with pointing their guns at some characters even if they had just one thing in common with another or because they "felt" they would be clone material.

Like, I've actually seen some people call Charizard a Bowser clone just because they can both breathe fire and Rosalina and Bowser jr weren't given much thought pre reveal because they expected them to end up as clones of Peach and Bowser.....

But yeah, it probably may also have to do with some fans not being familiar with the fighting game genre outside of Smash. But at the same time, I don't think Sakurai would resort to deliberately making any new clones unless he was short on time or (in Melee's case) feeling that the roster wasn't big enough.

It's also worth noting that Sakurai has at least tried to change up clones whenever possible. Look at the Melee clones to Brawl, or Dr. Mario to Smash 4. Certain moves were actually changed for the fighters (Or physics in Dr. Mario's case). It's why I feel like come Smash 5, that Dark Pit and Lucina will get changed up a bit.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Obviously R.O.B is a clone of Metroid. They both have laser beams

Samus doesn't have laser beams

 

[A Distant Demon]

Samus doesn't have laser beams

And? We're talking about metroid not Samus. And he fires a laser

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Samus doesn't have laser beams

She does for her Final Smash.

 

[Curious Villager]

In some cases he did.

Most notably Luigi in 64 and Lucas in Brawl (not a full clone, but he's still a derivative), though they are definitely a minority (and Luigi is a special case).

just felt like adding that I don't disagree with the post

Hmm... I suppose you may have a point there.

Though apparently Sakurai made the four Smash 64 unlockables from some of the 8 starter characters (Then again, that game was developed on a tighter budget so I suppose that's understandable) and he apparently wanted to include Lucas as a replacement for Ness in Melee which might explain why he ended up the way he did (assuming that information is still correct though).

But yeah.

 

[Frostwraith]

Remember when Sakurai criticized how DLC shouldn't be used to finish content that would be on the base game and how he emphasized that DLC should be genuine and made after the base game is completed? (Source: http://nintendoeverything.com/sakurai-talks-a-bit-about-smash-bros-dlc/)

I think that may have been a factor for Wolf's exclusion, even from the DLC line-up.

As you know, Wolf was the last character added to Brawl's roster and was only made possible due to borrowing assets from other characters, mainly Fox, to which all of his special moves and Final Smash are directly based on. In addition, leftover data suggests he was going to be even more similar to Fox, with him having unused animations that are identical to Fox's.

As you may know as well, Fox has a "Wolf Flash" special move variation for the Fox Illusion special, acting similarly, if not identically, to how Wolf's side special move of the same name worked in Brawl.

My theory: Wolf was meant to return for Smash 3DS/Wii U at some point in development but had to be scrapped for reasons unknown. Likely, he was a low priority character similar to his status in Brawl, except he wasn't that lucky this time around.

Some work had already been put into them and they did use the programming for Wolf Flash in the final version of the game, albeit as a special move for Fox. The name is identical, still named after Wolf himself. They could have renamed it as "Fox Flash" or something similar, after all.

Lylat Cruise's conversations feature a rather low-res model of Wolf, using his Assault design instead of his Smash Bros. Brawl design. This puts him in-line with the other non-playable characters: only Fox and Falco use their Smash designs since they're the only Star Fox characters playable in the game. It's possible that this model was only put into the game and rushed after they had decided to exclude Wolf from the roster and wanted to keep things consistent to: 1. avoid direct references to Wolf being possibly playable at a point, 2. have Wolf's design match his only appearance in this game as a trophy with the Assault design.

I think those are the two factors that point towards Wolf being worked on at some point in development. Okay, so what about Lucas?

Remember that rumor that stated the Smash team decided to pick Ness or Lucas, though not both? I think they did that at an earlier stage of development, having in mind to have their specials return for the other character, i.e. Ness would have Lucas's versions of the special moves. Even so Ness's PK Freeze doesn't quite work like Lucas's and the other Lucas-inspired specials aren't exactly the same either, as they all have their own quirks that set them apart from Lucas's special moves.

This is the opposite of Fox, which has a blatant reference to Wolf in Wolf Flash and the moves works exactly the same as it did in Brawl.

Assuming the rumor is true, Lucas wasn't worked on for the base game. They did choose between Ness and Lucas upon noting that their series had shown no signs of continuation. This is unlike Star Fox that had a remake on the 3DS and Nintendo was possibly gauging interest on continuing the Star Fox series (as shown by Miyamoto working on SF Zero right now). Sakurai also considered making a Star Fox game before deciding to use the Kid Icarus franchise instead.

In this perspective, it makes sense to give priority to Wolf over Lucas.

So, why didn't Wolf return, then? I think you can figure out the answer: Wolf was content meant for the base game and Sakurai didn't want to rip players off by having to pay for content that was meant for such.

With DLC focusing on new and unique characters besides the very popular Mewtwo and designated Melee and Brawl vets Roy and Lucas, Sakurai likely didn't want to work on Wolf, as the team had been reduced in amount of staff working on the game and those new characters would require full attention and dedication from the development team.

Basically, DLC was always meant to be content not meant for the base game. Extra content by the very definition of the term.

Another important aspect: Sakurai mentioned how ballot submissions had characters found in previous Smash installments, meaning they did have a shot at being ballot picks. Of course, Wolf is among them. I think the ballot was Wolf's definite shot at being playable as DLC. People took him as granted after Lucas's reveal and ended up not voting on him as much as they should have.

In other words, Wolf was possibly meant to be in the base game, but circumstances got in the way. The fact Sakurai doesn't like the idea of working on content meant for the base game post-release likely got in the way too, as did the fact that he wanted to focus on more unique and complex characters for DLC that wouldn't have been realizable during development of the base game.

Overall, Star Fox has more content than Brawl with more trophies, more music and a new stage along with the two found in Brawl. The Star Wolf theme did get a new remix as well, found on both versions of the game. The only major Star Fox content removed is Wolf, as all other gameplay-related Star Fox content introduced in Brawl returned, including the Smart Bomb item and the Andross Assist Trophy.

Sakurai knows the importance of the Star Fox series to Nintendo and acknowledges its unique aspects, having every Star Fox stage since Melee feature conversation Easter Eggs. Orbital Gate Assault simulates the original Assault stage, with the conversations matching the events going on the screen, resembling an actual Star Fox game.

Lastly, it bears mentioning that this is all speculation and theorizing. I wanted Wolf to return, but I accept that things just didn't work out in his favor this time around, unlike Brawl. That's how game development is and cuts sometimes need to be done. Bowser Jr. was almost cut, after all.