Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Naoshi]

Maybe your copy us busted then, because I don't have this problem at all, nor do I see it happen to anyone else in any videos I watch.

Either that or maybe you really weren't and just can't remember. I dunno.

Either way, the air controls felt very wrong and awkward to me, more noticeably in the 2D segments. The speed feels definitely restricting there compared to the ground, if it's not then something is really up with the physics/controls in general and it's gonna be hard to pin point what.

I'll have to play the game again later. But I really recall not enjoying the physics/controls.

 

[PushDustIn]

BREAKING NEWS gaming news sites are bad at verifying facts, and often add their own information into a story.

Oh wait...that was already known. My bad .

Anyway the new Pokemon Deck will have mostly X/Y cards, and not reprints of the original run.

 

[ChikoLad]

Either way, the air controls felt very wrong and awkward to me, more noticeably in the 2D segments.

You're the only one I've heard have that problem.

I mean there are plenty of flaws in Lost World but this is not one of them, I've never run into Sonic losing momentum during a jump unless I let go of the run button or held the opposite direction.

 

[Deleted member]

I dunno. Sonic's gem things were pretty ridiculous letting you skip most of the levels

Nothing can beat making your friend relive Silver's boss battle with your own hands
If you don't say "IT'S NO USE" every five seconds then you're playing Silver wrong

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speed isn't what Sonic games are all about.

ALL THIS WOUNDS
CRAWLING IN MY SKIIIIIIIN
Speed is what made Sonic popular
tbh, Lost World 3DS had a level that you could go so fast you'd slide off the stage with ease. That was some of the most fun I had in a Sonic game, rushing as fast as you can, slipping on the edge of life, tue andrenaline is truly amazing. To me, Sonic is best when there's something climactic going on, it's also why the GUN truck was so popular, it gave you a reason to speed ahead, and it was exhilarating

 

[ChikoLad]

ALL THIS WOUNDS
CRAWLING IN MY SKIIIIIIIN
Speed is what made Sonic popular
tbh, Lost World 3DS had a level that you could go so fast you'd slide off the stage with ease. That was some of the most fun I had in a Sonic game, rushing as fast as you can, slipping on the edge of life, tue andrenaline is truly amazing. To me, Sonic is best when there's something climactic going on, it's also why the GUN truck was so popular, it gave you a reason to speed ahead, and it was exhilarating

Speed wasn't what made Sonic popular. If that was the case, people would love every Sonic game more or less.

It was speed that you gain on your own, platforming, exploration, surreal and vibrant worlds, cool characters, and good level design.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speed wasn't what made Sonic popular. If that was the case, people would love every Sonic game more or less.

It was speed that you gain on your own, platforming, exploration, surreal and vibrant worlds, cool characters, and good level design.

In terms of gameplay, speed was what made Sonic different compared to other competition.

About Lost World's run button. It should have been a walk button if we NEEDED to slow down

 

[ChikoLad]

In terms of gameplay, speed was what made Sonic different compared to other competition.

About Lost World's run button. It should have been a walk button if we NEEDED to slow down

No it wasn't. Sonic going fast was directly inspired by the original Super Mario Bros. Yuji Naka said this himself in an interview. And Mario was pretty fast in that game.

It was the sense of weight and momentum, as well as how open the levels were, that made Sonic stand out. As well as the characters and the worlds (in that the original Sonic game was considered way better looking than Super Mario World despite being on technically inferior hardware - ROM hacking has made that last bit debatable though).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No it wasn't. Sonic going fast was directly inspired by the original Super Mario Bros. Yuji Naka said this himself in an interview. And Mario was pretty fast in that game.

What the **** are you on about? This literally has NOTHING to do with what I said. I said that Sonic's high speed made his games popular, Green Hill, Spring Yard and Star Light give you a high sense of speed.

Mario's level design didn't make the speed feel nearly as exhilarating

 

[ChikoLad]

What the **** are you on about? This literally has NOTHING to do with what I said. I said that Sonic's high speed made his games popular, Green Hill, Spring Yard and Star Light give you a high sense of speed.

Mario's level design didn't make the speed feel nearly as exhilarating

I directly answered your question.

You did not say anything about "sense of speed" in the post I replied to. Simply that "speed made Sonic different".

But that is incorrect.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

View attachment 90111

I directly answered your question.

You did not say anything about "sense of speed" in the post I replied to. Simply that "speed made Sonic different".

But that is incorrect.

Dude, Sonic's speed is LITERALLY what made him stick out

 

[Champ Gold]

Explain

Do I need to speedrun to play the game "correctly"? Am I not allowed to play the game casually? Do I need to master the game so I can suddenly be playing it "right"?

That is ridiculous.

The greatest thing about Sonic in the 90s and when Adventure came out was that the game had a combination of these 3 things:

• Speed
• Momentum
• Platforming

3 things that made the games so memorable and stood above every other platformer.


Sonic isn't like , he doesn't have that generic style of platforming or does his series needs to be like others, what makes his series so memorable to fans was that it was different from everyone else. Sonic Lost World isn't a bad game, it's alright but for the style of being a Sonic game, it isn't good.


If you take away those game gameplay aspects I mentioned above, you know he'll be in the end.

Spoiler

. Something for 25 years, Sega has tried to avoid not being like. Another Mario wannabe

 

[ChikoLad]

Dude, Sonic's speed is LITERALLY what made him stick out

I don't know how you can say that when his speed was not something he did first.

Sonic didn't even go that fast in the first game unless had Power Sneakers or found good slopes, due to the speed cap in the game. And a lot of the levels were designed to slow you down.

 

[Naoshi]

Playing Windy Hill Act 2 and Des(s)ert Ruins Act 3. Maybe they've patched the physics a bit or I've remembered wrong concerning air momentum. But... I am not really feeling the controls. Sonic's top speed (not max speed, but top speed without the speed boost and other things) feels way really slow even with the run button being held. Not a fan of the run button either, I see what they are trying to do, but I don't think this whole thing meshed particularly well.

I was probably confusing with how Sonic's running animation makes it look like there's more speed, whereas becoming a ball makes the speed's flaws more apparent. In speaking of though, Sonic's running animation really does not match the actual speed I'm seeing. It makes it feel more awkward.

But yeah, as is, ehhh I'm not feeling it. I wouldn't mind a sequel with a ton of improvements. I can tell a lot of thought was put into the idea, but you can see that they didn't refine it enough.

The spindash is faster though, still feels kinda slow, which is a given since it's not that much quicker than your regular running speed, but it is noticably quicker.

FAKE Edit: After typing all of that, I've now just noticed that you DO lose momentum after jumping from a spindashing state. So maybe that's what my memory is based on. Yeah, I kinda remember now. Going by memory, I hated the base running speed, so I must've stuck with spindashing in safe parts of a stage and always jumped when I needed to.

I don't know how you can say that when his speed was not something he did first.

Sonic didn't even go that fast in the first game unless had Power Sneakers or found good slopes, due to the speed cap in the game. And a lot of the levels were designed to slow you down.

Sonic 1 is slow now, yes, but not by its standards for its time. Green Hill demonstrated how fast Sonic can go (the Green Hill ground checkers IIRC were designed to show off the speed you're going). That game received tons of reception for being fast during that time, despite it having a lot of slower stages. Sonic 2 fixed that and went all out with the speed, which further cemented the reception.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't know how you can say that when his speed was not something he did first.

Sonic didn't even go that fast in the first game unless had Power Sneakers or found good slopes, due to the speed cap in the game. And a lot of the levels were designed to slow you down.

Do you even ****ing roll in Sonic 1? That removes the speed cap! Green Hill is not just memorable for being the first Sonic world, but also for having a sense og high speed. Spring Yard gives a sense of speed every now and then, and then there's Starlight Zone. Considering the sequels to Sonic 1 kept speed in mind in the level design, maybe, just maybe...It means the fact Sonic went fast was something fans loved

 

[Strofirko]

"Sonic speed is the selling point"
Lets forget about all the worlds who came after green hill zone then.

 

[Champ Gold]

I don't know how you can say that when his speed was not something he did first.

Sonic didn't even go that fast in the first game unless had Power Sneakers or found good slopes, due to the speed cap in the game. And a lot of the levels were designed to slow you down.

He actually can without the power sneakers.

Power Sneakers just put Sonic in his top speed automatically without having to build it up.

Sonic can easily reach the top speed by rolling down an incline (play Spring Yard, it has so many slopes to do so)

Anna is right in a sense but what made Sonic special was the speed+momentum.

You can complete a Mario level faster than a Sonic level but what it special was its physics and using that speed to access to parts of a stage ou couldn't get to standing still and just regular platforming. Rolling up a hill and spin dashing through a loop with speed and momentum

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Let's be honest here, this is the fastest Sonic game

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

GameFaqs topic, paraphrased:
"Hey, anyone has a pic of Chloe's DLC portrait?"
"You can probably find it with the other art on the official artbook"
"Yeah, but where can I find it?"
"Oh, it's uploaded on E-Hentai!"
...
Someone excuse me
...
I can't believe I had to go there but there was so much beautiful and official art

Spoiler

And there's a bunch of could-be-considered-NSFW-art
I'm not even surprised tbh

 

[Burruni]

Sonic's origins and POINT was to be faster focused platforming than Mario.

Because speed is cool. And Sonic's "cool" factor was quite heavily an aspect of his creation.

A lack of speed in Sonic 1?

You can get speeds that the game struggles to scroll at off the first level.

Yes, it's speedrunning levels of speed but here's the thing. That speedrunning is about bending the game's engine which focuses on speed and momentum to the fullest and getting as much time lasted in the air with that max speed.

That's why the Spindash was created: To give the player a more manual way of cranking your speed up because that's what you came for.

That's part of why the Boost formula worked so damn well for fans and arguably the best-recieved style for Sonic in a 3D setting.

Because Sonic went fast, felt fast, and you felt in control (as opposed to 06 Speed Sections).

Sonic Lost World's physics engine feels clunky and the speed is unnatural for the series.

 

[Naoshi]

"Sonic speed is the selling point"
Lets forget about all the worlds who came after green hill zone then.

Well there was also:
Spring Yard Zone (despite the dumb slow elevator parts)
Starlight Zone (this is the ultimate speed level of the game)

Which makes up half of the game.


Anyways on the subject about Sonic and speed.

SEGA was advertising Sonic 1 as a speedy game, heck that is why he is called Sonic. But the slower portions of the game was criticized for not being fast enough, especially Labyrinth Zone, which is one of the most hated stages in the 16-bit Sonic games.

Theory: I think the slow levels happened because they were still figuring out the Sonic formula. Since it's a platformer and speed-based platformers weren't a thing back then, they tried to balance it out by having both slow and fast levels. Of course that didn't turn out all that well from a quality point of view. This became more apparent with how much emphasis on speed Sonic 2 had. They figured out what worked and what didn't. Sonic was always intended to be a fast game.

Say what you will but one of the first things people think of when they think of Sonic, is the speed. Yes, speed is not the only ingredient to a Sonic game, we know that momentum and good level design is just as important, but in the mind of the general public, Sonic is "about" speed.

For the record, I love Sonic 1 despite its shortcomings.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, but Sonic 1 was also advertised to show the advantages of the Sega Genesis's CPU speed compared to the SNES and the like. Not sure if this was with Sonic 2 or 1, but that was where Blast Processing came from.

 

[Roaring Salsa]

*logs in*
*sees another discussion with lots of walls of text*
Catch you later this is like the 9th discussion in the week

 

[JamesDNaux]

Sonic games were never purely about speed in the beginning. Sure, you can beat classic Sonic by holding right most of the time, but that's severely breaking down the experience and any game would sound boring at that point.

Sonic had branching paths, not unlike Super Mario World but at the same time, implemented very differently. While SMW rewarded exploration with secret levels, every path in a Sonic level simply leads you to the next level. But what makes this brilliant is the combination of speed and clever level design, unless you were all the way at the bottom of a stage, falling down wouldn't send you to your death, but just put you on a lower path. Rather than punishing the player for falling via death (immediately, anyway), it just sets you back slightly, dulling one of the major frustrations in every platformer. The rings also exemplify this idea of not punishing the player for failure, you'll lose all of your speed and rings when you get hit, but there's always an opportunity to replenish both. Unlike Mario where you have to find another mushroom while being cautious not to get hit again, with the abundance of rings in Sonic games you can just continue playing without worry, the player isn't immediately punished, it's fun.

Sonic Team was really clever at the time because they completely changed the formula of a platform game while maintaining the fundamentals. Sonic is not overtly different from your standard platformer, with only three things really changing that.

Speed and momentum. Sonic wasn't just fast at first, he either had to get a running start or curl up in a ball and spin out before he could get to top speed. This ties in to what I said previously, everything was designed so that going at max speed was a reward for playing well. Part of the reason 3D Sonic games are so different is the difficulty of pulling these two off in a 3D environment.

Level design. The world itself is what makes Sonic great, you have Mario who goes around using powerups, Mega Man who runs and guns, Sonic who... just proceeds forward at a rapid pace. You can take Sonic out of the equation entirely and the stages of the original Sonic games would still have their identity. A well designed level is what makes going fast fun, and while the original games weren't entirely perfect at this (looking at you, Marble Zone), they did do it the best.

Forgiving the player for mistakes. I already explained it above, but the health system in itself breaks this series away from any other. You don't just die after getting hit, or after depleting a health bar, you basically just get a slap on the wrist and move along on your merry way (unless you're really bad at Sonic games...).


-

TL;DR, Sonic isn't just speed, it's gaining it, maintaining it, and not getting frustrated for dying on that same Goomba every time.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I started work with PushDustIn and Source Gaming today. You guys should check out today's article/video on Wolf!

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/30/proof-that-wolf-isnt-coming-back/

 

[Deleted member]

Guys, please.
Adventure 1 is CLEARLY the fastest Sonic Game.
I mean, who DOESN'T love mashing B to go at speeds so fast that you fall off the stage 90% of the time?

Except the ledge stops you from falling off. Git gud.

 

[Naoshi]

Sonic games were never purely about speed in the beginning. Sure, you can beat classic Sonic by holding right most of the time, but that's severely breaking down the experience and any game would sound boring at that point.

Sonic had branching paths, not unlike Super Mario World but at the same time, implemented very differently. While SMW rewarded exploration with secret levels, every path in a Sonic level simply leads you to the next level. But what makes this brilliant is the combination of speed and clever level design, unless you were all the way at the bottom of a stage, falling down wouldn't send you to your death, but just put you on a lower path. Rather than punishing the player for falling via death (immediately, anyway), it just sets you back slightly, dulling one of the major frustrations in every platformer. The rings also exemplify this idea of not punishing the player for failure, you'll lose all of your speed and rings when you get hit, but there's always an opportunity to replenish both. Unlike Mario where you have to find another mushroom while being cautious not to get hit again, with the abundance of rings in Sonic games you can just continue playing without worry, the player isn't immediately punished, it's fun.

Sonic Team was really clever at the time because they completely changed the formula of a platform game while maintaining the fundamentals. Sonic is not overtly different from your standard platformer, with only three things really changing that.

Speed and momentum. Sonic wasn't just fast at first, he either had to get a running start or curl up in a ball and spin out before he could get to top speed. This ties in to what I said previously, everything was designed so that going at max speed was a reward for playing well. Part of the reason 3D Sonic games are so different is the difficulty of pulling these two off in a 3D environment.

Level design. The world itself is what makes Sonic great, you have Mario who goes around using powerups, Mega Man who runs and guns, Sonic who... just proceeds forward at a rapid pace. You can take Sonic out of the equation entirely and the stages of the original Sonic games would still have their identity. A well designed level is what makes going fast fun, and while the original games weren't entirely perfect at this (looking at you, Marble Garden Zone), they did do it the best.

Forgiving the player for mistakes. I already explained it above, but the health system in itself breaks this series away from any other. You don't just die after getting hit, or after depleting a health bar, you basically just get a slap on the wrist and move along on your merry way (unless you're really bad at Sonic games...).


-

TL;DR, Sonic isn't just speed, it's gaining it, maintaining it, and not getting frustrated for dying on that same Goomba every time.

Yeah I agree with this.

Although, I don't think anyone is actually arguing otherwise. I think we all agree that momentum, speed and skill is what makes a Sonic game. The "what Sonic is known for" or "advertised as" is a whole different matter however. A slow Sonic game can alienate an audience.

 

[Bedoop]

and not getting frustrated for dying on that same Goomba every time.

Change "Goomba" to "Chargin' Chuck" and that describes my Luigi World / Luigi 3D World experience in a nutshell
I HATE CHUCK

 

[Naoshi]

All this Sonic talk is making me wanting a new Classic Sonic game more and more now lol


(I'd be down for any Sonic game as long as it's good though! A new boost game would make me just as almost happy too)

 

[Bedoop]

All this Sonic talk is making me wanting a new Classic Sonic game more and more now lol


(I'd be down for any Sonic game as long as it's good though! A new boost game would make me just as almost happy too)

Well we got Knuckles the Echidna in; Knuckles & Knuckles & KNUCKLES coming in 2029
So there's that
...Google Chrome made the Book Antiqua font turn into Hey Gorgeous
So that's cool. I guess.

 

[Chrono.]

If I'm being honest I can't say I'd care for a full 2D Sonic again.

Granted. I've only really played Sonic 1 (which I found okay), Sonic 2 (which I found a drag) and Sonic Advance 1 (which I found boring).

Not to mention Generations' Act 1 levels didn't really win me over.

Not sure where they could go with 3D Sonic though.

 

[Substitution]

I started work with PushDustIn and Source Gaming today. You guys should check out today's article/video on Wolf!

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/30/proof-that-wolf-isnt-coming-back/

I fear for the imminent rage not gonna lie. Good luck you two, you'll need all the luck you guys can get.

 

[Bedoop]

Is Smash Online down or something?
I can't get Online for the life of me.

 

[Burb]

I started work with PushDustIn and Source Gaming today. You guys should check out today's article/video on Wolf!

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/30/proof-that-wolf-isnt-coming-back/

I didn't watch the video yet, but in the article, you guys forgot to address the official website box placement, which, if I recall correctly, was Etika's main point towards Wolf being in.

Y'know, the empty square after Mewtwo: http://www.smashbros.com/us/

I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain knows it means nothing (especially since the main roster AND hidden character pages both have an empty square in the exact same spot at the end of their rosters), but still, it's yet another piece of "evidence" people are using to justify not letting go of the fact that Bayonetta was the last character.

EDIT: Never mind, it was in the video.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So earlier today I was playing team matches on for glory. Needless to say, I learned that Cloud and Ness( even though the ness was spammy) can make a pretty terrifying combo. I felt kind of bad for the outcome here, but at the same time it's hilarious:

Also please mind the quality, I shot it with my laptop camera. Which is also the staticey sound you hear, it's motor was running slightly loud.

I think this could actually become like the villager and Ness combos people have been doing. As long as the ness player doesn't spam like this.

Ness is Vivi

Vivi is playing with Cloud, a Final Fantasy character

FINAL FANTASY IX REMAKE CONFIRMED

and you know Mario is Nintendo's Poster boy so he deserves a clone. And Doc is way better than someone like Metal or Gold Mario.

It's still Mario regardless. I just have a really deep dislike for two characters to be the exact same person. I mean...look at what they did with Mario Kart (Mario/Metal Mario/Tanooki Mario) - three of the EXACT same characters here -_-

Jack Frost, Jibanyan.

Ooh, Jack Frost! I forgot about him!


...how would he work again?

And with that, it's time to wait for May 2017. I can't wait to see what this sequel trilogy will become!

One of the biggest reasons I am looking forward to that time: I will be graduating in May 2017!

Graduation gift confirmed!

 

[LIQUID12A]

I started work with PushDustIn and Source Gaming today. You guys should check out today's article/video on Wolf!

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/30/proof-that-wolf-isnt-coming-back/

Here is a question:

Spoiler: the answer

Not enough to outdo the salt of any angry Wolf fans.

 

[Chrono.]

I didn't watch the video yet, but in the article, you forgot to address the official website box placement, which, if I recall correctly, was Etika's main point towards Wolf being in.

Y'know, the empty square after Mewtwo: http://www.smashbros.com/us/

I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain knows it means nothing (especially since the main roster AND hidden character pages both have an empty square in the exact same spot at the end of their rosters), but still.

Yeah they did address it in the video.

(and even pointed out how the slots change when you're using different sized monitors and all)

 

[Burb]

Yeah they did address it in the video.

(and even pointed out how the slots change when you're using different sized monitors and all)

Oh, good, never mind then.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I got enough salt form my Reaction Video to the direct.

Wolf fans can't do any worse than Fire Emblem fans.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

So I just ran into a Japanese tier list

I have so many questions, I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Captain Fun]

I really want to try Corrin. Don't know why, but the character just looks like fun. I don't even like the new direction of Fire Emblem but I love his design too.