Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Luigi The President]

So when do you guys think the next Smash will be out/in development?

I think development will start in 2 years and it'll be revealed in 4 years.

 

[Chrono.]

http://gematsu.com/2015/12/mobile-suit-gundam-extreme-vs-force-coming-west-2016
>Gundam VS game FINALLY getting localized
>It's the goddamn Vita game

I feel conflicted.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

 

[Fenriraga]

Finished Xenoblade's story. The ending was kind of mind-blowing.

I would start a new playthrough, but I'm not really feeling doing that.

Well, I don't have to worry about Xenoblade spoilers anymore.

Spoiler: Xeno Spoils

Yeeep, Mind-blowing doesn't even begin to describe it haha. Monolith loves their plot twists after all.

Do you mean New Game+? It's pretty simple as far as it goes, using the Monado III is hilariously overpowered at the beginning of the game with your level, but besides that it's very standard.

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

I honestly don't feel as though Bayonetta is quite as niche as people lead on. Niche to be sure, but the games are still very much AAA as far as budget and production goes. I mean, people tend to praise it as one of if not THE best action beatemup of the past generation, and I feel Nintendo also greatly increased her awareness thanks to them packing Bayo 1 with Bayo 2.

As well, you have to remember that Bayo was among the top "Realizable" options. Sadly, what Realizable entails is really only going to be known by Sakurai himself.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

I'm sick and tired of these conspiracy theories about Bayo, as the people who genuinely believe Nintendo rigged the Ballot are forgetting how marketing works, as you can't say 'She's popular!' and then everyone thinks 'She's popular? Well, I should buy her!' not to mention if Nintendo DOES show results reconfirming Bayo being #1 the people will still yell 'THESE ARE OBVIOUSLY FAKE! GIVE US THE REAL RESULTS!'

On a lighter note, a Christmas carol, just for me!

 

[ChikoLad]

Pleeease stop the conspiracy theories.

Yes, I think Bayonetta won, end of story. Out of the realiasable choices that is.

Smashboards and other fan sites do not represent the majority.

Bayonetta is currently a critically acclaimed franchise and the character has a lot of fans outside of people who played her game. She's not comparable to Shantae or something like that. She has literally featured in Playboy Magazine more than once.

I may sound like I'm just trying to make a "LE LENNY FACE HERE" comment with that but a video game character getting exposure like that in Playboy would actually increase their popularity a ton.

Remember when the gaming side of Playboy covered Splatoon and everybody freaked out?

Bayonetta wasn't covered by that, she's just a genuine sex symbol at this point.

Couple that with fans of her games and yes she could easily win.

 

[Chrono.]

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

No, I think she won fair and square.

Bayonetta's just one of those characters that has always been far more popular than her own game. The evidence is more or less everywhere.

From Hideki Kamiya having to block "Smash idiots" spamming his Twitter to the Playboy shoots, topping DLC polls for Sonic and All Stars Racing. She's a really popular character, despite her games not selling well.

Nintendo publishing Bayonetta 2 is definitely the biggest factor here though.

So yes, I firmly believe this was the case of a silent majority winning.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I'm sick and tired of these conspiracy theories about Bayo, as the people who genuinely believe Nintendo rigged the Ballot are forgetting how marketing works, as you can't say 'She's popular!' and then everyone thinks 'She's popular? Well, I should buy her!' not to mention if Nintendo DOES show results reconfirming Bayo being #1 the people will still yell 'THESE ARE OBVIOUSLY FAKE! GIVE US THE REAL RESULTS!'

On a lighter note, a Christmas carol, just for me!

Pleeease stop the conspiracy theories.

Yes, I think Bayonetta won, end of story. Out of the realiasable choices that is.

Smashboards and other fan sites do not represent the majority.

Bayonetta is currently a critically acclaimed franchise and the character has a lot of fans outside of people who played her game. She's not comparable to Shantae or something like that. She has literally featured in Playboy Magazine more than once.

I may sound like I'm just trying to make a "LE LENNY FACE HERE" comment with that but a video game character getting exposure like that in Playboy would actually increase their popularity a ton.

Remember when the gaming side of Playboy covered Splatoon and everybody freaked out?

Bayonetta wasn't covered by that, she's just a genuine sex symbol at this point.

Couple that with fans of her games and yes she could easily win.

I made it pretty clear in my post that I'm trying not to be the "conspiracy theorist" that you keep seeing around. I'm just brining up arguments that support that idea to lend to a discussion.

I'm just suspicious is all. As that's not the kind of character anyone would have expected, and I'm not seeing solid evidence to support that there's not other factors we are not seeing.

I like that she's in for her fans.The difficulty I have is seeing her fanbase as big enough. And I have yet to see an argument showing me that there is a large enough fanbase.

Edit: I'm seeing you guys' arguments and I do for the most part somewhat agree. I just want more transparency and evidence besides "Yeah she's big because playboy." But I do accept her inclusion. No need to jump to me disliking her.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I made it pretty clear in my post that I'm trying not to be the "conspiracy theorist" that you keep seeing around. I'm just brining up arguments that support that idea to lend to a discussion.

I'm just suspicious is all. As that's not the kind of character anyone would have expected, and I'm not seeing solid evidence to support that there's not other factors we are not seeing.

I like that she's in for her fans.The difficulty I have is seeing her fanbase as big enough. And I have yet to see an argument showing me that there is a large enough fanbase.

Edit: I'm seeing you guys' arguments and I do for the most part somewhat agree. I just want more transparency and evidence besides "Yeah she's big because playboy." But I do accept her inclusion. No need to jump to me disliking her.

Akxareth brought up her popularity in other stuff, not to mention the 3DS install base may have wanted to try her games but lacked the consoles. That, and sex sells

 

[ChikoLad]

I made it pretty clear in my post that I'm trying not to be the "conspiracy theorist" that you keep seeing around. I'm just brining up arguments that support that idea to lend to a discussion.

I'm just suspicious is all. As that's not the kind of character anyone would have expected, and I'm not seeing solid evidence to support that there's not other factors we are not seeing.

I like that she's in for her fans.The difficulty I have is seeing her fanbase as big enough. And I have yet to see an argument showing me that there is a large enough fanbase.

Prefacing your post with "I'm not being a conspiracy theorist" doesn't change the fact that that's exactly what your post is.

You even proposed the idea that the developers are not being truthful.

I'm not trying to be mean but seriously there is nothing to be suspicious about. And even if there was, nobody benefits from knowing some hidden truth. Even if Bayonetta didn't genuinely win, she's in the game now. She is close to complete. She isn't gonna be scrapped just because we exposed some conspiracy, and the dev team is ready to be disbanded soon since they have pretty much exhausted their budget, so they aren't gonna suddenly develop the "real" winner of the ballot just because of an exposed conspiracy.

Either way there is absolutely no reason to ponder this.

 

[Fenriraga]

I made it pretty clear in my post that I'm trying not to be the "conspiracy theorist" that you keep seeing around. I'm just brining up arguments that support that idea to lend to a discussion.

I'm just suspicious is all. As that's not the kind of character anyone would have expected, and I'm not seeing solid evidence to support that there's not other factors we are not seeing.

I like that she's in for her fans.The difficulty I have is seeing her fanbase as big enough. And I have yet to see an argument showing me that there is a large enough fanbase.

Edit: I'm seeing you guys' arguments and I do for the most part somewhat agree. I just want more transparency and evidence besides "Yeah she's big because playboy." But I do accept her inclusion. No need to jump to me disliking her.

You can beat around the bush all you want dude, but what you're implying quite literally falls under the category of conspiracy theory no matter how you try and sugar coat it. It's you believing there was more to her inclusion than just being a popular and realizable vote. By definition, you are thinking about if there was a conspiracy. You literally even used "suspicious" just now.

The true details as to how and why Bayonetta was realizeable is a mystery, yes. But what isn't a mystery was the statistics. Bayo was a popular pick, no amount of Reddit polls or mock polls can truely counter that without looking at literally every single possible voter.

You've been doing this since she was confirmed man, so you can imagine why our patience is thin on the subject.

 

[Retroend]

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

i find it really suspicious that sakurai himself would not show the actual results. the guy has contradicted himself in the past so i don't buy his word on bayo being the most realizable character. either he shows the results or he's lying. of course he won't show them, so i don't trust the guy's word, regardless of what anyone says.

 

[Con0rrrr]

I guess I could have worded that better. You guys are focusing on a specific wording in my post as opposed to the entire thing. But that's alright. I guess that's my fault.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

i find it really suspicious that sakurai himself would not show the actual results. the guy has contradicted himself in the past so i don't buy his word on bayo being the most realizable character. either he shows the results or he's lying. of course he won't show them, so i don't trust the guy's word, regardless of what anyone says.

Considering how ****ing toxic the Smash community can be at times, do you REALLY want results? If a different character was more popular but not realizable, everyone goes in a hissy fit. If Bayonetta genuinely WAS the most popular choice worldwide, the community would yell 'THESE AREN'T THE REAL RESULTS!' Damned if you fo, damned if you don't

 

[PushDustIn]

I think Bayonetta was the top for realizable characters. I've been saying for months that Smash speculation fanbase does not equal the entire Smash fanbase.

A part of me feels that Sakurai wanted to make a third party character for DLC (based on his comments on Ryu, Cloud's inclusion, etc) and if that's the case then Bayonetta makes a lot of sense as she's one of the most popular 3rd party characters that isn't in Smash yet.


If you guys want to hear my opinion on Corrin, then check out the Corrin Controversy article I just put up!

 

[NintenZ]

Guys, even though it's strange, I can honestly see that whole controversy behind Bayo winning the ballot. I mean from the research I did the most talked about character in all of Europe was King K. Rool, and plus considering Bayo's sale numbers, it is somewhat suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I like that she's in the game, but I can usually tell when something's up. Sorry if I sound crazy, just wanted to say this.

 

[Luigi The President]

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

Yep. She totally won.

Literally no reason for them to put her in if she's not the Ballot choice. And why would there be a deal? She's not getting any new games or anything soon.

It was likely a legit win. If her chances were boosted by bots, then that means literally everyone elses chances would be illegitimate.

There is likely nothing we're not being told. There's a chance, but it's not likely.

 

[Frostwraith]

Speaking of Bayonetta and ballot, a lot of people are not thinking outside the box.

There's one thing I feel it wasn't addressed, but I feel it's quite important.

Remember that they counted votes from different regions from around the world! Much like the site itself, the ballot was available in multiple languages for different regions:
- Japanese (Japan)
- English (US)
- French (Canada)
- Spanish (Latin America)
- English (UK)
- French (France)
- Spanish (Spain)
- German (Germany)
- Italian (Italy)
- Dutch (Netherlands)
- Portuguese (Portugal)
- Russian (Russia)
- English (Australia)

When they mean Europe, they probably meant votes submitted through the European sites.

As PushDustIn discussed in SG, fan polls are not 100% reliable. One of the things that OUR fan polls failed to evaluate was interest in non-English speaking regions. France, Germany and Spain form a particularly large percentage of the European audience of Nintendo, especially France and Spain, in which the company is particularly popular.

Sure, there are people here from those regions, myself included as I'm Portuguese, but there are plenty of people from those places that aren't here and likely don't even know English. There are other language communities that may have had their own trends and wishes.

At the very least, the fan polls reflect the English speaking community, mainly the US, partially Canada, Australia and UK, but that's it. It's likely that the ballot results for the US is the one that may best resemble the fan polls, as the majority of the users in THIS Smash community hail from there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys, even though it's strange, I can honestly see that whole controversy behind Bayo winning the ballot. I mean from the research I did the most talked about character in all of Europe was King K. Rool, and plus considering Bayo's sale numbers, it is somewhat suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I like that she's in the game, but I can usually tell when something's up. Sorry if I sound crazy, just wanted to say this.

France apparently LOVES Bayonetta, we didn't have all of Europe say they all want K.Rool

 

[Luigi The President]

Guys, even though it's strange, I can honestly see that whole controversy behind Bayo winning the ballot. I mean from the research I did the most talked about character in all of Europe was King K. Rool, and plus considering Bayo's sale numbers, it is somewhat suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I like that she's in the game, but I can usually tell when something's up. Sorry if I sound crazy, just wanted to say this.

The research you did likely accounted for a small portion of all voters.

A small portion of all voters in one country does not make K. Rool easily the most voted in Europe. And who said he was talked about all positively? It's likely a lot of his talk was both negative, and positive.

 

[ChikoLad]

Guys, even though it's strange, I can honestly see that whole controversy behind Bayo winning the ballot. I mean from the research I did the most talked about character in all of Europe was King K. Rool, and plus considering Bayo's sale numbers, it is somewhat suspicious. Don't get me wrong, I like that she's in the game, but I can usually tell when something's up. Sorry if I sound crazy, just wanted to say this.

You must have had a very small sample size.

There is no way K.Rool is most popular I'm Europe, considering the prominence PlayStation had in Europe over Nintendo when K.Rool was still being utilised.

Bayonetta's games actually have a lot of European influence which is why her being #1 in Europe makes sense to me.

 

[NintenZ]

France apparently LOVES Bayonetta, we didn't have all of Europe say they all want K.Rool

Really? Wow, I didn't know that, but thanks for telling me!

Okay, nothing is up about her being in first place in Europe now that I think of it.

 

[Luigi The President]

Pleeease stop the conspiracy theories.

Yes, I think Bayonetta won, end of story. Out of the realiasable choices that is.

Smashboards and other fan sites do not represent the majority.

Bayonetta is currently a critically acclaimed franchise and the character has a lot of fans outside of people who played her game. She's not comparable to Shantae or something like that. She has literally featured in Playboy Magazine more than once.

I may sound like I'm just trying to make a "LE LENNY FACE HERE" comment with that but a video game character getting exposure like that in Playboy would actually increase their popularity a ton.

Remember when the gaming side of Playboy covered Splatoon and everybody freaked out?

Bayonetta wasn't covered by that, she's just a genuine sex symbol at this point.

Couple that with fans of her games and yes she could easily win.

Wait why'd Playboy cover Splatoon? I'm hoping it was just advertising it, right?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Really? Wow, I didn't know that, but thanks for telling me!

Okay, nothing is up about her being in first place in Europe now that I think of it.

Also, wasn't Bayonetta fairly high on the community voted Watchmojo lists when it came to potential Smash characters?

 

[Retroend]

Considering how ****ing toxic the Smash community can be at times, do you REALLY want results? If a different character was more popular but not realizable, everyone goes in a hissy fit. If Bayonetta genuinely WAS the most popular choice worldwide, the community would yell 'THESE AREN'T THE REAL RESULTS!' Damned if you fo, damned if you don't

the whole situation is fishy to me. and seeing how you have her as your character would tell me you're being bias with her, but whatever, to each their own. i never really trusted sakurai that much, and it all went downhill ever since the initial roster was leaked back then.

PushDustIn i just read your latest article. there are some good points there. even though i don't like the fire emblem series over representing the zelda series in terms of characters, i feel like corrin is an interesting addition. i was definitely more excited for him than bayonetta.

 

[NintenZ]

Also, wasn't Bayonetta fairly high on the community voted Watchmojo lists when it came to potential Smash characters?

That was titled, "Characters WE'D like to see in Smash Bros" it wasn't a community choice, but rather theirs'.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That was titled, "Characters WE'D like to see in Smash Bros" it wasn't a community choice, but rather theirs'.

WatchMojo's lists are community based, they ask for votes, and they use those results, and I thought they made 2 lists

 

[ChikoLad]

Wait why'd Playboy cover Splatoon? I'm hoping it was just advertising it, right?

Playboy have a gaming journalism division, and sometimes actual Playboy models will interview game developers and PR. They advertise themselves as a general men's entertainment magazine now, not just for sex.

The interviews are completely normal though and the Playmates are actually well informed.

Also fun fact, one of the Playmates who covered Splatoon was the one who cosplayed Bayonetta for that Bayonetta 2 promotional shoot.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/playboy-previews-splatoon-and-a-few-real-marketing-missteps

 

[Luigi The President]

the whole situation is fishy to me. and seeing how you have her as your character would tell me you're being bias with her, but whatever, to each their own. i never really trusted sakurai that much, and it all went downhill ever since the initial roster was leaked back then.

PushDustIn i just read your latest article. there are some good points there. even though i don't like the fire emblem series over representing the zelda series in terms of characters, i feel like corrin is an interesting addition. i was definitely more excited for him than bayonetta.

You're funny dude, "i don't trust the guy who's game i regularly visit a forum for at ALL!"

You've got no reason to distrust Sakurai. Can you tell me any besides how you're scared of Bayo?

Playboy have a gaming journalism division, and sometimes actual Playboy models will interview game developers and PR. They advertise themselves as a general men's entertainment magazine now, not just for sex.

The interviews are completely normal though and the Playmates are actually well informed.

Also fun fact, one of the Playmates who covered Splatoon was the one who cosplayed Bayonetta for that Bayonetta 2 promotional shoot.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/playboy-previews-splatoon-and-a-few-real-marketing-missteps

Okay, that's good. I thought it was art of the Inklings!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Playboy have a gaming journalism division, and sometimes actual Playboy models will interview game developers and PR. They advertise themselves as a general men's entertainment magazine now, not just for sex.

The interviews are completely normal though and the Playmates are actually well informed.

Also fun fact, one of the Playmates who covered Splatoon was the one who cosplayed Bayonetta for that Bayonetta 2 promotional shoot.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/playboy-previews-splatoon-and-a-few-real-marketing-missteps

Playboy's more than porn now? Does this mean the same for those Playgirl thingies?

 

[Z25]

Pleeease stop the conspiracy theories.

Yes, I think Bayonetta won, end of story. Out of the realiasable choices that is.

Smashboards and other fan sites do not represent the majority.

Bayonetta is currently a critically acclaimed franchise and the character has a lot of fans outside of people who played her game. She's not comparable to Shantae or something like that. She has literally featured in Playboy Magazine more than once.

I may sound like I'm just trying to make a "LE LENNY FACE HERE" comment with that but a video game character getting exposure like that in Playboy would actually increase their popularity a ton.

Remember when the gaming side of Playboy covered Splatoon and everybody freaked out?

Bayonetta wasn't covered by that, she's just a genuine sex symbol at this point.

Couple that with fans of her games and yes she could easily win.

Alright, I feel a lot of the storm has passed over. And it's not as controversial for me to bring up this topic anymore... Although I know some people will take this the wrong way.

Do you guys really think Bayonetta "won" the ballot? Do you think it was either an illegitimate win (bots voting, due to the Ballot's awful setup), or maybe her being #1 isn't a truthful statement?

Now I always knew from the beginning that the #1 worldwide would not be someone from these silly fan polls. As we all know, they do not represent a majority of the fanbase.

But something I've considered recently, is Bayonetta really that popular for the part of the fanbase we did not account for? I don't think so personally.

See, the fanbase I always thought we didn't account for was the main Smash audience. The 6-14 year old kids who get the game on Christmas and play with items with their neighborhood buddies. This is why I personally always expected a rep from a series already represented.

Captain Toad, Dixie Kong, a Zelda character, a Veteran, a Pokemon, a Sonic character, or maybe some other popular characters amongst that audience.

Bayonetta is the kind of character we would expect to see on these fan polls. A niche character with a game that is not that popular, but has a dedicated fanbase. If you do the math, calculate her sales figures and assume popularity from such a figure... It doesn't seem plausible that she would "win" without some other factors affecting this. Such as multiple votes, botting, or some other factor, maybe even the dev team not being truthful.

Bayonetta fits the definition of the type of character we'd see on these polls.

King K Rool: Has a loud fanbase of older fans who played the old DKC games, very vocal about him although they might not be the biggest.

Shovel Knight: Big support. Indie Rep. Popular choice (Only popular character from these polls that I thought had a chance).

Shantae: Small fanbase. Loud fanbase. Loud developers.

Bayonetta's fanbase sounds similar to the above, does it not? That's the point I'm trying to make here and ask you guys about. At the very least, do you think there's something we're not being told?

I agree with Sonic's points, but on top of that you need to also realize a few things:

1) So the games didn't sell well. Really that means nothing. Let's look at Earthbound, it failed big time when it first released and now it is a massive cult classic game Bayonneta's franchise imo is on it's way there. She has a pretty big core audience, and casual's love everything about her character as well. She's a sassy, attractive female that kicks ***. That's what makes her such a strong and popular female character. It's almost like the movie Charlie's angels. ( Ironic that this is my example now that I think of it). Her character, and combined that people who have played bayonneta love the game and it's play style, led to her being a bigger contender then we realized.

There are two factors that clouded( hehe more puns) our judgement. The first being that oh Bayonnetta is to mature and uses guns she won't happen! Except that was quickly debunked when she was made playable. The second factor being that we underestimated her appeal and votes. She did decently well in fan polls as PushDustIn pointed out. I'd wager a good amount of votes came to her from the audience that aren't actively involved in internet forums. Although Shofu, Alpharad, and Gamexplain seemed to be some of the bigger forces who thought she be awesome to have and even voted for her. OF course when asked who they voted for, most went with the more likely choices such as wolf or K rool, etc.

Now moving on....

Bayonneta was only stated as number one in Europe. Which means Europeans probably didn't vote for memes highh enough to make the top 5.( which s why I'm slightly disappointed in the states). As for the other characters who ranked highly. I've already given my take, but I'll reiterate it:

My guess for the top 5 in no order:
1) some meme( John Cena, Shrek, probably Goku, maybe corey in the house, who knows)
2) Snake. He was the one vet that had the most demand then anyone else. It should be obvious why they didn't choose him.
3) Another unexpected or Dark Horse character. This is something I could see, but there are to many options.
4) Banjo. Again another massively popular 3rd party. Why is he not realizable? Simple, Sakurai said it himself before the dirrect in the FE article Push translated.
"Characters in Smash are influenced by the trends of the time"
What does this mean? Simple. Banjo is not relevant enough to be chosen, I'd also wager that he would probably be hard to negotiate for, even if Phil Spencer said they would. It doesn't mean much though.
5) Bayonneta. Again I honestly think her popularity was underestimated. I actually did vote for her at one point. I also always said, that she doesn't really strip as much as people say when attacking. Which we can see didn't affect her. My only problem with her inclusion was the whole gun policy. I thought that would stop her, and I'm glad it didn't.

Now I'm almost done here, but a few more points.
1) Wolf? I doubt he made the top 10, maybe top 20. His popularity was there, but votes for him came in to late. So many people thought he was a shoe in, but he was not. Also Sakurai said it in the direct himself:
"When deciding this game's roster and the DLC, I looked for characters who would be unique to play as"
That's why wolf was not chosen, even if he did actually rank highly. He wasn't as unique as others fighters like Bayonneta, so he was overlooked. He probably wasn't even considered for DLC at all, if we go by gematsu. Gematsu brought up how ness and lucas were being argued for who should be cut. Lucas being cut probably led to him being chosen as DLC, because they probably didn't want to cut him.

2) K rool? I've always said this numerous times. After about 2 months, I'd say his popularity and votes decreased after this time, and led to other characters like Bayonneta rising. Even online, you could see the decrease. Plus another factor was that multiple people had multiple accounts across these voting sites, which while probably a small fraction, it still invalidates those polls. Plus again, the casual audience probably didn't vote to much for him. Also again, K rool is not relevant therefore he was overlooked. Maybe this will lead to a new future for him though.

3) Indies. There indies, they had decent popularity but it died down to. I also think Sakurai was hesitant to work with indies, because as indie games, they would be hit or miss with the fanbase, and may not be a popular fad later on.

And in conclusion, I leave this:

I mean with Bayo, there are two other things.

1) Games made by platinum play super unique and aren't really made like that by others. Which is a plus for bayo as her game is exactly that, a big action game, not like most.

2) In the past few years her ties with Nintendo have strengthened due to all they did to promote her. So she is tied to them as a 3rd party they want to see live on, even if that's different then Sonic, Megaman and Pac-man.

I think those two things should be considered when decided if she fits or not, more so the second reason.


I think it could very well happen and would make a lot of sense.

Sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say! Those are my thoughts on how Bayo got in, and that Sakurai was honest about her inclusion!

 

[Curious Villager]

Bayonetta doesn't seem like the type of character Sakurai himself would include in Smash imo.

I don't see any reason why he would lie about it. If he where to show the full results, people would just throw an even bigger hissy fit on why he didn't choose character x instead.

So it's probably for the best he didn't, nor did I expect him to either.

 

[DMurr]

I don't see why they would even note that she was the highest voted "realizable" character if she was top of the top. She didn't 100% win the ballot vote, but she won the ballot.

 

[Opossum]

Playboy's more than porn now? Does this mean the same for those Playgirl thingies?

They've literally always been "more than porn" though. Articles and interviews and such.



Also I'm happy about Pokemon Go actually getting different Pokemon depending on the area; my area's basically the Sinnoh region with mountains, forests, and the bitter cold. I think I'd get Teddiursa relatively easily.

 

[Schnee117]

Everyone loves presents, right? This one goes out to our friends @DeusEx, even if they never asked for it. pic.twitter.com/ubnENFciBs

— Sonic the Hedgehog (@sonic_hedgehog) December 21, 2015

Godammit Barb Sonic twitter.
Can't wait to get Robots powered by little animals for Christmas!

 

[Z25]

They've literally always been "more than porn" though. Articles and interviews and such.



Also I'm happy about Pokemon Go actually getting different Pokemon depending on the area; my area's basically the Sinnoh region with mountains, forests, and the bitter cold. I think I'd get Teddiursa relatively easily.

"I only read it for the articles!"

is the only statement that popped into my head when you said that


And I feel like I'll find mostly grass types in my area. I live near woods, a small town, and that's pretty much it.

It's also pretty cool that go will have gym leaders. I wonder how that will work.

 

[Luigi The President]

They've literally always been "more than porn" though. Articles and interviews and such.



Also I'm happy about Pokemon Go actually getting different Pokemon depending on the area; my area's basically the Sinnoh region with mountains, forests, and the bitter cold. I think I'd get Teddiursa relatively easily.

I can't bear the excitement of getting Teddiursa. It's unbearable.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They've literally always been "more than porn" though. Articles and interviews and such.



Also I'm happy about Pokemon Go actually getting different Pokemon depending on the area; my area's basically the Sinnoh region with mountains, forests, and the bitter cold. I think I'd get Teddiursa relatively easily.

How do you know this?~

Again, Go will be a disaster

 

[NintenZ]

WatchMojo's lists are community based, they ask for votes, and they use those results, and I thought they made 2 lists

No, it was called characters we'd like to see, I have a link here.

See the title?

 

[Chrono.]

I think Bayonetta was the top for realizable characters. I've been saying for months that Smash speculation fanbase does not equal the entire Smash fanbase.

A part of me feels that Sakurai wanted to make a third party character for DLC (based on his comments on Ryu, Cloud's inclusion, etc) and if that's the case then Bayonetta makes a lot of sense as she's one of the most popular 3rd party characters that isn't in Smash yet.


If you guys want to hear my opinion on Corrin, then check out the Corrin Controversy article I just put up!

Corrin feels more like a case of "necessary evil" to me, the "evil' in this case being the amount of FE reps.

It feels they were dead set on adding a brand new character from a brand new game (meaning pre-established characters like Chibi or Paper Mario were out).

This already limits your choices to 3 other games: Codename STEAM, Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles X

Codename STEAM was a flop everywhere, and isn't very popular. While someone like Henry Fleming would have an unique moveset, adding him would've been an even bigger gamble than someone like Corrin.

Then you got Splatoon. Everyone loves the Inklings and they would've provided with an unique moveset, but here's the thing: Splatoon doesn't need the extra push right now. It's the fastest and best selling game on the Wii U, the Inklings are very likely here to stay and they are the safest bet for Smash 5.

And finally there's Xenoblade X, coming off the heels of one of the most critically acclaimed JRPGs in recent time, you'd think Ninty or Sakurai would jump on the chance of adding a brand new character. But they didn't, reason being that they likely thought Corrin would have a far more interesting moveset than someone like Elma (who still would've been very unique, but in this case: turning into a dragon>dual wielding).