Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Fill a dental rinse cap with tap water and drink it and refill it every time they say "ballot."

Might as well just drink a gallon of water

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The GameXplain video says "Ballot winner" so many times that I think I'm going to vomit.

Besides, I'm the ballot winner!

 

[Poots]

Poots Why are you avatars always so...beautiful?

Gotta make sure I look good while lurking this thread, otherwise we'll be messing with the natural order.

 

[ChikoLad]

That has not stopped people from trying to spin Cloud as having some sort of significance to Nintendo so that they can continue to bolster the third party choices they like.

Really, most big game franchises can be spun to have some tangential connection to Nintendo. "Sanic was Murrios rival in console warz" or "Streets sold good on Snes" are common arguments people make when they want to say a character is a good fit, but they brush off Snake's inclusion saying he was an exception to this "rule" because of Kojima and Sakurai's friendship.

Well regarding Sonic, the "Mario's rival" thing is actually a genuinely good reason. Sonic's popularity surpassed Mario's at one point during the 90's, which is nothing to scoff at.

But beyond that, Sonic has been prevalent on Nintendo consoles since the Gamecube era, even having a good few exclusives, not to mention all of the other SEGA exclusives, even including new IPs at the time like Billy Hatcher.

And then this was a thing by the time Brawl came out:

So objectively, Sonic is that one third party that could genuinely be backed up as being justified to appear in the game without much "relevancy" trouble. It's just this beautiful poetic thing where he was at one point a big rival to Mario who surpassed him for a time, but then ended up being probably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, Nintendo supporting third party franchise. His situation is not at all comparable to any other third party. Even Mega Man doesn't quite reach Sonic's level.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Gotta make sure I look good while lurking this thread, otherwise we'll be messing with the natural order.

Right now, you look a little goofy...

Still good, but goofy...

 

[DMurr]

You guys act like popularity means nothing on the ballot. It will absolutely be a factor or there would be no point to it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You guys act like popularity means nothing on the ballot. It will absolutely be a factor or there would be no point to it.

Well, of course popularity is important, as Sakurai stated that it's going to be fanservice from now on, and considering we haven't gotten swimsuit DLC, he's obviously talking about the literal definition which every single DLC character we have gotten so far qualifies as.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is it that people take Gamefaqs seriously during these polls? I mean, I know it's like cliche to say "It's Gamefaqs", but I mean...it's Gamefaqs...

 

[OsirisOda]

Does anyone else feel like this right now?

*Edit: Oops. Forgot to add text. I was in a hurry.

 

[Coricus]

Well regarding Sonic, the "Mario's rival" thing is actually a genuinely good reason. Sonic's popularity surpassed Mario's at one point during the 90's, which is nothing to scoff at.

But beyond that, Sonic has been prevalent on Nintendo consoles since the Gamecube era, even having a good few exclusives, not to mention all of the other SEGA exclusives, even including new IPs at the time like Billy Hatcher.

And then this was a thing by the time Brawl came out:

So objectively, Sonic is that one third party that could genuinely be backed up as being justified to appear in the game without much "relevancy" trouble. It's just this beautiful poetic thing where he was at one point a big rival to Mario who surpassed him for a time, but then ended up being probably one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, Nintendo supporting third party franchise. His situation is not at all comparable to any other third party. Even Mega Man doesn't quite reach Sonic's level.

Well Nintendo was A-OK with Mega Man being one of the starring characters in a two and a half season marketing show that they bankrolled, so it's still at least decently close even if he's not on the exact same level.

 

[Strofirko]

Why is it that people take Gamefaqs seriously during these polls? I mean, I know it's like cliche to say "It's Gamefaqs", but I mean...it's Gamefaqs...

I stopped taking it serious,but since it's Gamefaqs 20 years celebration,gotta make sure that dead horse is beaten.

 

[Soul.]

Undertale is only winning because it's the newest thing. Though I still feel people are overrating it way too much.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well Nintendo was A-OK with Mega Man being one of the starring characters in a two and a half season marketing show that they bankrolled, so it's still at least decently close even if he's not on the exact same level.

I wouldn't even say that much because it really was Mega Man in nothing but the name.

The fact of the matter is that there isn't a single other third party character that shares a series with none other than Mr. Video Game Himself. Nobody is comparable to Sonic's relevance to Nintendo.

Sure, we have stuff like Pac-Man in Mario Kart Arcade GP and Mario commentating in Pac-Man VS, but the thing there is that they are Mario/Pac-Man games with the other appearing as a guest.

The Mario & Sonic Olympics games literally have Mario & Sonic share the spotlight. It originally was just a Sonic game (in fact, there exists a Java mobile spin-off called "Sonic at the Olympic Games"), but then SEGA decided to try and collaborate with Nintendo to make it a shared series between Mario and Sonic. Mario does not merely appear as guest, nor does Sonic. There is an equal amount of Mario and Sonic characters on the rosters for the games, and the same goes more or less for the Dream Events. And two of the handheld versions have Story Modes. It's a fully fledged crossover between the two that has honestly just become normal now.

Oh, and it was consistently one of Nintendo and SEGA's best selling franchises on the Wii. Which likely would not have happened without them sharing the stardom.

 

[PushDustIn]

In a sense though, could you really blame them?

The game is still sort of having a Nintendo oriented crossover with guest fighters. In the sense of those third party fighters, they have some ties with Nintendo, even in the sense of Pac-Man to where he's the only one who seems to have lesser ties but is the "Godfather of Video Games" and has more or less influenced Miyamoto.

That's not fair to say that characters got in on the merits of just being iconic alone. Their ties to Nintendo are just as significant, if not then we can just add a lot of franchises to Smash with almost no ties to where it looks worst than Snake.

In a sense, it's sort of seems like a fan made rule but we shouldn't throw everything and the kitchen sink just because of Cloud. While Cloud's design and everything about him is from FF7, that doesn't mean he can't rep his own franchise in a sense anymore or his company. Megaman has separate other spinoff franchises but Sakurai went with the classic motif because it's the most iconic, popular and his final smash features every other Megaman as well that he represents them as well. The Mii costumes show that since they use Megaman X and Battle Network instead of the classic one.


I ain't saying you're wrong but Sakurai said that it would be fine for these characters to have to weight with Nintendo for years and some still do (even in Pac-Man's sake)

But it's not really fair to cherry pick arbitrary reasons as to why each character got in...and that's exactly what people who say "Cloud got in because Final Fantasy has a history on Nintendo systems".

Snake got in because Kojima and Sakurai are friends
Sonic got in because of fan demand and that old school rivalry
Pac-Man got in because of Bandai-Namco, and influenced Miyamoto
Megaman got in because of fan demand and that old school NES rep
Ryu got in because of that old school SNES rep
Cloud got in because Final Fantasy was on the SNES.
*BONUS* Heihachi was considered.

That kind of thinking doesn't mean anything. And it's a perfect example of cherry-picking. Let me tackle them one by one (in the same order)

Sakurai is friends with a ton of other developers...yet we don't see their characters in the game. Where's Suda-51's rep? Where's the Level-5 Rep? Also, good job promoting that Wii exclusive, Metal Gear Solid 4 Sakurai! Or how Snake's design isn't even based on Twin Snakes. Snake not coming back must mean Sakurai's relationship with Kojima must be shaky! (It's not, Sakurai even promoted TPP in his Weekly Column)
If fan demand was the only reason than Chocobo would have gotten in sooner, as they were the #1 requested in Melee. Sonic is just popular and iconic. Also, Sakurai said yes to him in Melee. It's just that they ran out of time.
If influencing Miyamoto was a key decision then Sakurai wouldn't have said no to him in Brawl. I believe that Pac-Land rip isn't from the NES version either. (correct me if I'm wrong)
Megaman is a very iconic character and popularity helped him. But it was a factor just like Sonic.
Ryu represents one of the most important fighting games of all time. Not just the SNES, but the arcade versions too. Some of his songs are arcade rips....so...
There isn't a single mention to any other FF game outside of FFVII. Heck even the copyright is for FFVII. Chocobos aren't exclusive to FFVII, and from my understanding their design is based off another game's...but everything.else.is.a.from.a.game.that'.s.not.on.a.Nintendo.system.
Heihachi is the face of Tekken, and was even included in Playstation All Stars. He's an iconic, popular and relevant character.

So yeah...I think being iconic, popular characters are the only thing that ties 3rd party rep together. Unless you believe Sakurai is just picking characters out of a hat.

 

[Poots]

It's a fully fledged crossover between the two that has honestly just become normal now.

If only it were something more akin to Sonic Lost world's DLC rather than Mario Party.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If Undertale wins, people opposing it will ignore the game entirely.

If Undertale loses, people opposing it will ignore the game entirely.

It's kind of a forced outcome.

Undertale is only winning because it's the newest thing. Though I still feel people are overrating it way too much.

Uhmmm... I don't think its just that. The game's high praise and surprisingly friendly big community is also why people are voting Undertale too.

 

[LIQUID12A]

http://www.mediamarkt.se/sv/product/_amiibo-super-smash-bros-ryu-1278202.html

Look! A leak!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So yeah...I think being iconic, popular characters are the only thing that ties 3rd party rep together. Unless you believe Sakurai is just picking characters out of a hat.

This is what I have believed in for a long time and why none of the indie characters were characters I thought had a good chance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

So yeah...I think being iconic, popular characters are the only thing that ties 3rd party rep together. Unless you believe Sakurai is just picking characters out of a hat.

Hat?

FEDORAS CONFIRMED FOR SMASH!!!

 

[ChikoLad]

If only it were something more akin to Sonic Lost world's DLC rather than Mario Party.

IIRC a SEGA rep did actually comment on this once. Apparently a Mario and Sonic platformer is unlikely because Miyamoto doesn't see eye to eye with Takashi Iizuka and the other SEGA guys in terms of how it would be handled

Miyamoto ruins everything these days. Except Hyrule Warriors and Mario Maker.

I still don't see why they don't do an RPG though, mainly because the DS version of the first Winter Olympics actually had a "sports RPG" mode with a story and everything. At the very least, if they are running out of ideas for the Mario & Luigi series, have the next game be what Paper Jam is except replace Paper Mario stuff with Sonic stuff.

 

[Frostwraith]

I agree with all the stuff about hype culture and how people have a wrong perception of the Smash series' vision.

Mixing desires with expectations ("think" actually meaning "want") and the conspiracy-like mentality (especially the view that someone not thinking or wanting something somehow means they hate it) are particularly dangerous.

I, too, have been somewhat guilty of it, which is even more reason for me to better understand the development of games by reading articles and interviews with creators and developers (which is why I really liked the Iwata Asks interviews).

In another subject, Noragami is a great manga series.

 

[wildvine47]

There isn't a single mention to any other FF game outside of FFVII. Heck even the copyright is for FFVII. Chocobos aren't exclusive to FFVII, and from my understanding their design is based off another game's

One teeny tiny nitpick here, but Ifrit's design on Midgar actually is the one other non-FF7 design outside of the Chocobo hats. It's actually based on the FF8 design for Ifrit.

Here's Ifrit from the trailer

And here's Ifrit from FF8.

For comparison, here's Ifrit's FF7 design.

They're definitely using the more bestial Ifrit design from FF8 vs. the more humanoid one in FF7. There is at least some precedent for content from other FF's, but FF8 was still a Playstation exclusive, so there's still no Nintendo-originating FF content yet.

 

[Champ Gold]

But it's not really fair to cherry pick arbitrary reasons as to why each character got in...and that's exactly what people who say "Cloud got in because Final Fantasy has a history on Nintendo systems".

Snake got in because Kojima and Sakurai are friends
Sonic got in because of fan demand and that old school rivalry
Pac-Man got in because of Bandai-Namco, and influenced Miyamoto
Megaman got in because of fan demand and that old school NES rep
Ryu got in because of that old school SNES rep
Cloud got in because Final Fantasy was on the SNES.
*BONUS* Heihachi was considered.

That kind of thinking doesn't mean anything. And it's a perfect example of cherry-picking. Let me tackle them one by one (in the same order)

Sakurai is friends with a ton of other developers...yet we don't see their characters in the game. Where's Suda-51's rep? Where's the Level-5 Rep? Also, good job promoting that Wii exclusive, Metal Gear Solid 4 Sakurai! Or how Snake's design isn't even based on Twin Snakes. Snake not coming back must mean Sakurai's relationship with Kojima must be shaky! (It's not, Sakurai even promoted TPP in his Weekly Column)
If fan demand was the only reason than Chocobo would have gotten in sooner, as they were the #1 requested in Melee. Sonic is just popular and iconic. Also, Sakurai said yes to him in Melee. It's just that they ran out of time.
If influencing Miyamoto was a key decision then Sakurai wouldn't have said no to him in Brawl. I believe that Pac-Land rip isn't from the NES version either. (correct me if I'm wrong)
Megaman is a very iconic character and popularity helped him. But it was a factor just like Sonic.
Ryu represents one of the most important fighting games of all time. Not just the SNES, but the arcade versions too. Some of his songs are arcade rips....so...
There isn't a single mention to any other FF game outside of FFVII. Heck even the copyright is for FFVII. Chocobos aren't exclusive to FFVII, and from my understanding their design is based off another game's...but everything.else.is.a.from.a.game.that'.s.not.on.a.Nintendo.system.
Heihachi is the face of Tekken, and was even included in Playstation All Stars. He's an iconic, popular and relevant character.

So yeah...I think being iconic, popular characters are the only thing that ties 3rd party rep together. Unless you believe Sakurai is just picking characters out of a hat.

Yes. Iconic and popularity is always a factor but that isn't fair to say that atleast ties to Nintendo aren't ever relevant. It's why people take shots at outlandish choices like Master Chief, Steve (early on), any character from Assassin's Creed or joke choices like Bubsy.

You're telling me that if it doesn't matter then Sakurai wouldn't pick the MOST POPULAR FF CHARACTER IN THE SERIES in Cloud who comes from a popular multi million dollar series that has significant history on Nintendo since the NES days and from a standpoint of relationships between companies like Nintendo with Square Enix and Namco Bandai for characters like that to happen.


I get it, Nintendo relevancy isn't the major focus on third party characters but iconic status and popularity are but hat isn't to say that it shouldn't ever not be a reason.


Not THE reason, a reason

 

[Kenith]

One teeny tiny nitpick here, but Ifrit's design on Midgar actually is the one other non-FF7 design outside of the Chocobo hats. It's actually based on the FF8 design for Ifrit.

Here's Ifrit from the trailer

And here's Ifrit from FF8.

For comparison, here's Ifrit's FF7 design.

They're definitely using the more bestial Ifrit design from FF8 vs. the more humanoid one in FF7. There is at least some precedent for content from other FF's, but FF8 was still a Playstation exclusive, so there's still no Nintendo-originating FF content yet.

LOOK AT-
...

...Ahem.
Well let's just say, I can see why they went with the FF8 design, at least.

 

[PushDustIn]

Yes. Iconic and popularity is always a factor but that isn't fair to say that atleast ties to Nintendo aren't ever relevant. It's why people take shots at outlandish choices like Master Chief, Steve (early on), any character from Assassin's Creed or joke choices like Bubsy.

You're telling me that if it doesn't matter then Sakurai wouldn't pick the MOST POPULAR FF CHARACTER IN THE SERIES in Cloud who comes from a popular multi million dollar series that has significant history on Nintendo since the NES days and from a standpoint of relationships between companies like Nintendo with Square Enix and Namco Bandai for characters like that to happen.


I get it, Nintendo relevancy isn't the major focus on third party characters but iconic status and popularity are but hat isn't to say that it shouldn't ever not be a reason.


Not THE reason, a reason

That's exactly what I'm telling you. Even if FF had never been on a Nintendo console, then Cloud could have still gotten in. Sakurai references games and things that lead to that characters inclusion. See Little Mac's arcade references and then read his column on Little Mac for proof. If the Nintendo connection matter it would have been brought up.

 

[Frostwraith]

The best example of what hype culture can do is none other than Ridley.

There was a time when even suggesting or arguing about the possibility that Ridley wouldn't be playable was enough to draw the ire of fans and be obnoxiously labelled as a hater. This is a "for us or against us" mentality that is particularly repulsive and not healthy for a community.

This culminated in the reactions to the official confirmation of Ridley's role in the game and the subsequent clarification by Sakurai on the matter. The fact there was so much anger, so much vitriol, so much trolling and so much salt over what amounts to a fictional character in a video game isn't the sign of a good and stable community.

And things like this aren't just exclusive to the Smash Bros. community, spreading all over the gaming fandom. Hell, I've never seen anything similar in the anime fandom, though said fandom does have its own kind of toxicity and overall unpleasantness. (Which is why I don't like associating myself too much with any fandom and don't really submit to the majority's way of thinking.)

Before anyone calls me out on anything, do realize this is just my opinion. I don't intend to point fingers to anyone.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Had the first dream I actually remembered when I woke up in years. It's been so long. And of course . . . smash was involved

For some reason Eggman was telling who the ballot winner (his words not mine before you guys get triggered again). I jokingly said Ridley.

Then Eggman shot confetti out of his weird egg aircraft he is always in and yelled "Ridley!" I assumed he was going to say "but he is too big."
*cuts to pyrosphere. CGI*
dream me started making noises that might make Etika jealous. (I dont know i've never watched it)

Samus and Other M ridley fighting like something from an anime. Samus blasts Ridley away. .. then SM Ridley shows up and beats the **** out of samus. Awesome moves aplenty

and then my mnd tore me away because for some reason I was certain I was late for class .. .4 hours from then.


Normlly I wouldnt post boring stuff like this but im just happy I actually had a memorable dream for once >_>

 

[Curious Villager]

The best example of what hype culture can do is none other than Ridley.

There was a time when even suggesting or arguing about the possibility that Ridley wouldn't be playable was enough to draw the ire of fans and be obnoxiously labelled as a hater. This is a "for us or against us" mentality that is particularly repulsive and not healthy for a community.

This culminated in the reactions to the official confirmation of Ridley's role in the game and the subsequent clarification by Sakurai on the matter. The fact there was so much anger, so much vitriol, so much trolling and so much salt over what amounts to a fictional character in a video game isn't the sign of a good and stable community.

And things like this aren't just exclusive to the Smash Bros. community, spreading all over the gaming fandom. Hell, I've never seen anything similar in the anime fandom, though said fandom does have its own kind of toxicity and overall unpleasantness. (Which is why I don't like associating myself too much with any fandom and don't really submit to the majority's way of thinking.)

Before anyone calls me out on anything, do realize this is just my opinion. I don't intend to point fingers to anyone.

Yeah, it's things like this that kinda makes me hope that if I where to ever start a series of my own and it somehow became a little popular. That it's fandom at its highest peak remains around the level of Earthbound or Kirby. Some fandoms can become a little too toxic if they get a little too big....

I barely hear anything about the Kirby fandom now that I think about it.... (Not that there is anything wrong with that, mind.)

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One teeny tiny nitpick here, but Ifrit's design on Midgar actually is the one other non-FF7 design outside of the Chocobo hats. It's actually based on the FF8 design for Ifrit.

Here's Ifrit from the trailer

And here's Ifrit from FF8.

For comparison, here's Ifrit's FF7 design.

They're definitely using the more bestial Ifrit design from FF8 vs. the more humanoid one in FF7. There is at least some precedent for content from other FF's, but FF8 was still a Playstation exclusive, so there's still no Nintendo-originating FF content yet.

I can see three good reasons they din't go for the FF7 design.

 

[Chrono.]

RIP Jar Jar theories

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

RIP Jar Jar theories

Why would Jar Jar be in TFA?

We want a good movie, not a bad joke!

 

[Bedoop]

When Callie is winning so much in US that they literally have to make a Naughty VS Nice in Marie's favor
This is Camp Memeverse 2015 (Yoshi VS Toad, Yoshi was winning so bad that they had to keep advertising Team Toad) all over again

 

[wildvine47]

Why would Jar Jar be in TFA?

We want a good movie, not a bad joke!

https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w/

Read it, reexamine life.

I know I did.

 

[Kenith]

RIP Jar Jar theories

PRE-ORDER CANCEL-
...
...
Wait. This is a movie.
Wait you can pre-order tickets sometimes IT CHECKS OUT.

Spoiler

#FreeBinks

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w/

Read it, reexamine life.

I know I did.

Them Jar Jar fans are as desperate as the Ridley ones...

 

[CrimsonVallier]

do any of you guys know any exclusive stuff in terraria 3ds?
like pets or weapons because I'm thinking about getting it.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Jar Jar being the villain was some of the most beautiful and hilarious mental gymnastics I have ever seen.

Whats funny is that I actually theorised Kylo Ren was Luke under an alias, consumed by the dark side, seeing how his voice is distorted, his face always covered, talks about "finishing what you started" to the helmet of Luke's daddy, not to menton Luke himself has been excluded from movie's promotional material and there being a "reason" for it.'

But then I remember they actually showed Luke in one trailer scene and Kylo's face in some production shots so that goes out of the window

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, it's things like this that kinda makes me hope that if I where to ever start a series of my own and it somehow became a little popular. That it's fandom at its highest peak remains around the level of Earthbound or Kirby. Some fandoms can become a little too toxic if they get a little too big....

I barely hear anything about the Kirby fandom now that I think about it.... (Not that there is anything wrong with that, mind.)

The Kirby fandom is actually quite big and isn't exactly perfect either.

There is a lot of back and forth in the fandom regarding post-Sakurai Kirby games being good or not, back and forth about whether Super Star or Kirby 64 is the best game in the series from older fans, some Meta Knight fans are no better than those elitist Shadow fans you might find in the Sonic fandom ("MUH EDGY SORD CHARCTER IS BETTER THAN EVERYONE BECAUSE OW THE EDGE" - Note: I do not think Meta Knight is actually an edgy character and I actually very much enjoy him, but yeah some of his fans act like he's the baddest, darkest mo-fo ever), back and forth over whether or not Air Ride is actually a good game, back and forth regarding the anime being good or not, and regarding Smash reps, I've seen heated discussions of "Bandana Dee VS Adeleine VS Magalor".

 

[Burb]

One teeny tiny nitpick here, but Ifrit's design on Midgar actually is the one other non-FF7 design outside of the Chocobo hats. It's actually based on the FF8 design for Ifrit.

Here's Ifrit from the trailer

And here's Ifrit from FF8.

For comparison, here's Ifrit's FF7 design.

They're definitely using the more bestial Ifrit design from FF8 vs. the more humanoid one in FF7. There is at least some precedent for content from other FF's, but FF8 was still a Playstation exclusive, so there's still no Nintendo-originating FF content yet.

I noticed that too, and I'm happy they went with that version.

FF7 Ifrit is pretty meh. My favorite is 10's, but 8's is quite nice, too.

 

[Chrono.]

I finally got my SKELL licence. :^)

Spoiler