Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[PsychoIncarnate]

Why did they rename Orochi in Yokai Watch?

In the English release?

I mean, Kyubi wasn't renamed

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Come to think of it, if we're getting a character that will contrast with Cloud, it will be someone like a cartoony animal relying on projectiles instead of an anime-style human character primarily relying on close-range combat.

I've said this before but somewhere we've mixed speculation and desires. "I think" has become synonymous with "I want" in Smash speculation, which is why some people think Sakurai is the 9th Wonder of the World because he doesn't follow the fan trends (which is what people "want" him to do). Sakurai isn't random, it's just that the community gets so deadset on fan made rules and mistranslations that they don't understand what's really going on....so they feel constantly blindsided. Hype culture is destroying the ability to understand the beauty that actually goes into Smash.

I wonder which fan "rule" will be broken next.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Come to think of it, if we're getting a character that will contrast with Cloud, it will be someone like a cartoony animal relying on projectiles instead of an anime-style character primarily relying on close-range combat.



I wonder which fan "rule" will be broken next.

...Maybe Tails?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

...Maybe Tails?

*Shrugs* Technically, there is no actual rule stating that a third-party franchise can't have more than one character represented in Smash.

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like arbitrary fan rules are sometimes made to keep characters out or in.

In the sense of Cloud, he's appeared in less games on Nintendo consoles than Snake has but his franchise has present history on Nintendo systems than Snake's ever will. So in a sense Cloud has major history with Nintendo because he's from the one franchise that started out big on Nintendo consoles


The only reason why somehow characters who were seen having less of a chance now seem like shoo-ins because of Cloud due that look of "he represents the era which Square left Nintendo for Playstation", Square-Enix never left, Nintendo still got exclusive FF games including remakes like FF3 on DS and let's be honest, Sakurai never said he had to be on a Nintendo console but that it wouldn't be an issue if they were.

I mean for God sakes, Sonic could have been in Melee which at the time, Sega never released any Sonic games on a Nintendo consoles and SA2 Battle and Sonic Advance didn't release until 2002, a long while after Melee came out.



The reason I like PushDustIn article because he says "Hey, being hype is fine but don't let it blind your judgement and logic from reality" because it'll leave you to total disaster and disappointment. Ridley got caught in that fully and so did the Chorus Kids to where they had so many people expecting those characters to be there that when they weren't, they wanted Sakurai's head because it didn't fit their desire. You can at things with an open mind but just remember that look things from a logical standpoint so you won't feel that sting of disappointment and salt

 

[wedl!!]

There's no rule, it just seems sort of sensible because if we're getting third-parties they should try to represent as much of gaming history as they can.

Megaman has a lot of ties with Nintendo from the 80s-90s. Ryu is the face of fighting games. Sonic is Nintendo's old rival. Cloud is Mr. JRPG. Pacman is the most popular arcade game of all time. Snake is from a lineage of influential games primarily in the stealth genre.

Assuming every third-party would eventually have two representatives (of the ones that are currently in the game), Squeenix and Namco have some things lined up. For Squeenix something Dragon Quest related is the best route to go, and possibly Lara Croft (something I think is completely nonsensical personally) or Crono. With Namco, Tekken characters have been in the running for a while but haven't been added (possibly because of Ryu, but the games are different enough to the point where it would work), and Lloyd from the Tales series (something that works but it also "clashes" now that Cloud is in the game).

Sega however isn't really a company you can say has a ton of important, influential franchises. Other than Sonic characters what would fit? Bayonetta is a SEGA character who's popular, although she'd have to be heavily abridged to work in the game both stylistically and ratings-board-approval-wise. Aiai from Super Monkey Ball isn't a relevant character in any sense of the word currently. Alex Kidd and Ristar haven't been in a game of their own in decades. Akira from Virtua Fighter not only has a Mii costume but isn't really a character a lot of people can identify with, especially considering we already have Ryu in the game they'd stylistically clash. The only real logical step should Nintendo add more SEGA characters would for them to be Sonic-related.

 

[PushDustIn]

Come to think of it, if we're getting a character that will contrast with Cloud, it will be someone like a cartoony animal relying on projectiles instead of an anime-style human character primarily relying on close-range combat.



I wonder which fan "rule" will be broken next.

That the ballot winner had to have the most amount "support" in online polling, even though I've been arguing all the fan polls are meaningless.

Cloud doesn't represent the Final Fantasy series in general. Everything about him is FF7. There isn't a single reference to his cameo appearances on Nintendo systems. Being on a Nintendo system was never a requirement. Cloud got in because he carries video game history with him, he's relevant, popular, has personality and was favorable to development. He ticked all those boxes which every third party has (so far).

 

[Jdaster64]

Just realized that the reason I hated and stopped listening to the StarFox Assault OST on YouTube the first time is because I'd accidentally listened to the StarFox Adventures OST instead. D'oh.

Now that I'm actually listening to it, Assault's OST is amazing.

 

[Chrono.]

...Maybe Tails?

I love Tails but nah

He's nowhere near up there with Cloud. If anything he's one of the most iconic sidekicks ...but that doesn't mean anything.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Just realized that the reason I hated and stopped listening to the StarFox Assault OST on YouTube the first time is because I'd accidentally listened to the StarFox Adventures OST instead. D'oh.

Now that I'm actually listening to it, Assault's OST is amazing.

I don't think Adventure's OST is bad per-se but it's way too heavy on the ambience. It's hard to tell one track from the next. Which makes that very distinct saxaphone music when Fox sees Krystal all the more jarring.

 

[memoryman3]

I wonder which fan "rule" will be broken next.

"No spinoff characters allowed"

I hope...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

"No spinoff characters allowed"

View attachment 87089

I hope...

Well Daisy is in a Main Mario game (Land) and Dr. Mario is in none of them. Already broken unless its another one of those "somehow doesn't count" rules.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

"No spinoff characters allowed"

Dr. Mario says hi

 

[Jdaster64]

I don't think Adventure's OST is bad per-se but it's way too heavy on the ambience. It's hard to tell one track from the next. Which makes that very distinct saxaphone music when Fox sees Krystal all the more jarring.

I'd agree, giving a bit of it another listen. But I was expecting orchestral "space opera" and got about the opposite. I didn't (and still don't) know enough about the SF games to know something was up, I guess.

 

[Chandeelure]

Soon (v(- ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° -)>↑

Well Daisy is in a Main Mario game (Land) and Dr. Mario is in none of them. Already broken unless its another one of those "somehow doesn't count" rules.

Eeehh... Dr. Mario was a last minute clone and he is the main character of his franchise, unlike Daisy who is not more important than Waluigi, Toadette or Birdo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Soon (v(- ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° -)>↑

View attachment 87090

Assist Trophy DLC?

 

[Captain Fun]

That the ballot winner had to have the most amount "support" in online polling, even though I've been arguing all the fan polls are meaningless.

Cloud doesn't represent the Final Fantasy series in general. Everything about him is FF7. There isn't a single reference to his cameo appearances on Nintendo systems. Being on a Nintendo system was never a requirement. Cloud got in because he carries video game history with him, he's relevant, popular, has personality and was favorable to development. He ticked all those boxes which every third party has (so far).

That has not stopped people from trying to spin Cloud as having some sort of significance to Nintendo so that they can continue to bolster the third party choices they like.

Really, most big game franchises can be spun to have some tangential connection to Nintendo. "Sanic was Murrios rival in console warz" or "Streets sold good on Snes" are common arguments people make when they want to say a character is a good fit, but they brush off Snake's inclusion saying he was an exception to this "rule" because of Kojima and Sakurai's friendship.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Really, most big game franchises can be spun to have some tangential connection to Nintendo. "Sanic was Murrios rival in console warz" or "Streets sold good on Snes" are common arguments people make when they want to say a character is a good fit, but they brush off Snake's inclusion saying he was an exception to this "rule" because of Kojima and Sakurai's friendship.

inb4 people starting bringing the fact that Nintendo saved the industry from the crash of '83 using , making every single franchise connected to Nintendo

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Yeah Big Daddy was in PSASBR despite Bioshock starting off as an Xbox exclusive on consoles. Ironically, unlike the mess that other 3rd parties were him being there was in service to their series as a whole rather than advertising for upcoming games (his stages did that instead.)

 

[Coricus]

...Maybe Tails?

I would squee so hard.

I love Tails but nah

He's nowhere near up there with Cloud. If anything he's one of the most iconic sidekicks ...but that doesn't mean anything.

Well let's look at the competition, though.

Banjo-Kazooie
Rayman
Bomberman
Shovel Knight
Shantae
Phoenix Wright
Professor Layton
Geno


. . .Yeah, no, his chances are fine.

Granted, I don't see them throwing in any more third parties as DLC and am referring more to Smash 5, but. . .his chances are fine.

Also he has the distinction of being leaked for every Smash release except 64, even if that does not really matter.

 

[Deleted member]

>Melee beat Chrono Trigger
>Undertale beat Super Mario World
>Tumblrtale beat Pokemon Red and Blue
>This is currently happening

Spoiler

I wanna die in 5012 different ways

You know, I had hope in this poll when it started
But it only caused despair

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

>Melee beat Chrono Trigger
>Undertale beat Super Mario World
>Tumblrtale beat Pokemon Red and Blue
>This is currently happening

Spoiler

View attachment 87091
I wanna die in 5012 different ways

You know, I had hope in this poll when it started
But it only caused despair

Well, if Melee wins against FF7, I've seen everything...

 

[Chrono.]

Now I kinda want Melee to win the whole thing.

 

[Strofirko]

Undertale over Mario 64 and Melee over FFVII.
R.I.P. Gamefaqs credibility.

 

[Coricus]

>Melee beat Chrono Trigger
>Undertale beat Super Mario World
>Tumblrtale beat Pokemon Red and Blue
>This is currently happening

Spoiler

View attachment 87091
I wanna die in 5012 different ways

You know, I had hope in this poll when it started
But it only caused despair

Hey look, it's the two most overrated games of all time, dissing everyone with actual taste like they always do.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well let's look at the competition, though.

Banjo-Kazooie
Rayman
Bomberman
Shovel Knight
Shantae
Phoenix Wright
Professor Layton
Geno


. . .Yeah, no, his chances are fine.

I'm sure at least half of those characters aren't even big enough to qualify as "competition", if you can even call them that.

 

[PushDustIn]

That has not stopped people from trying to spin Cloud as having some sort of significance to Nintendo so that they can continue to bolster the third party choices they like.

Really, most big game franchises can be spun to have some tangential connection to Nintendo. "Sanic was Murrios rival in console warz" or "Streets sold good on Snes" are common arguments people make when they want to say a character is a good fit, but they brush off Snake's inclusion saying he was an exception to this "rule" because of Kojima and Sakurai's friendship.

Pretty much this.

I can see those fans rocking back and forth in the corner...

"it's still Nintendo all-stars...it's still Nintendo all-stars..."

Even though it was decided to drop that subtitle in Melee. Maybe around the time that Sonic was considered? After all, it was recorded for Melee, but unused.

 

[Coricus]

I'm sure at least half of those characters aren't even big enough to qualify as "competition", if you can even call them that.

Exactly.

So much of the fan base seems to think they've done more to get themselves into Smash than Tails has.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Pretty much this.

I can see those fans rocking back and forth in the corner...

"it's still Nintendo all-stars...it's still Nintendo all-stars..."

Even though it was decided to drop that subtitle in Melee. Maybe around the time that Sonic was considered? After all, it was recorded for Melee, but unused.

Well, it's still a primarily Nintendo-oriented crossover.

Exactly.

So much of the fan base seems to think they've done more to get themselves into Smash than Tails has.

Fan Myopia in a nutshell

 

[PushDustIn]

Well, it's still a primarily Nintendo-oriented crossover.

Oh there's no doubt about it. But for guest characters having a Nintendo connection is not a requirement.

 

[LIQUID12A]

To be perfectly honest, while I used to be in the 'Wolf for marketing' camp, I've actually just about given up hope for him.

Star Fox Zero just had a huge presentation, and Wolf didn't come with it. We're talking about a Brawl character who, let's be honest, shouldn't have been much harder to make than Lucas (oh, and let's not forget; Lucas got into Sm4sh before Wolf, despite Wolf being more recent and arguably more popular).

I can't be certain of anything anymore, but I just have a bad feeling that Wolf's time has passed. It's certainly still possible, I'm not saying it isn't - it just doesn't seem as likely as it used to.

And I'm not saying he's impossible by now, just less likely than he's always been, which is about what, 70% in terms of numerical chances. People have overestimated these from day 1 of DLC. Optimism isn't bad, it's the lack of acknowledging the chance of failure that is. Just look at everything he's skipped, stuff that could have been him:

-Mewtwo
-Lucas
-Roy/Ryu
-Hyrule Castle 64 update(aka madness inducing King K Mii costume)
-Mario Maker update
-Cloud

5 reveals, two individual updates. That's about 7 rounds of DLC for this supposed shoo-in. Isn't that a sign of alarm?

The one argument I can see in his favor now is "save the best for last". And it's certainly his last chance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Exactly.

So much of the fan base seems to think they've done more to get themselves into Smash than Tails has.

Tails didn't even need to do anything!

He's Sonic's Green Mario Luigi, for crying out loud!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh there's no doubt about it. But for guest characters having a Nintendo connection is not a requirement.

It's more important that they are significant enough to rise above the definition of literally just any third-party character, whilst being feasible to develop.

 

[Poots]

This whole "Best game ever" thing is a joke. It's something that was deliberately made to stir up trouble and get reactions from fanboys/girls just so that all eyes would be on Gamefaqs. Every time you guys post about it to complain you're just feeding the beast. I'm certain they're loving how Undertale is beating games like Mario 64 and pokemon, It's clearly getting everyone up in arms and causing many communities to give their site free exposure.

If any of you are genuinely upset over any of these results you should really take a step back and realize that not only does it mean nothing, but unlike certain games this poll will be forgotten.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Poots Why are you avatars always so...beautiful?

 

[Chandeelure]

The GameXplain video says "Ballot winner" so many times that I think I'm going to vomit.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The GameXplain video says "Ballot winner" so many times that I think I'm going to vomit.

I've got an idea!

Let's eat a shoe everytime we hear the word "ballot" in that video

. . .

Wait! That's a horrible idea!

 

[Champ Gold]

Pretty much this.

I can see those fans rocking back and forth in the corner...

"it's still Nintendo all-stars...it's still Nintendo all-stars..."

Even though it was decided to drop that subtitle in Melee. Maybe around the time that Sonic was considered? After all, it was recorded for Melee, but unused.

In a sense though, could you really blame them?

The game is still sort of having a Nintendo oriented crossover with guest fighters. In the sense of those third party fighters, they have some ties with Nintendo, even in the sense of Pac-Man to where he's the only one who seems to have lesser ties but is the "Godfather of Video Games" and has more or less influenced Miyamoto.

That's not fair to say that characters got in on the merits of just being iconic alone. Their ties to Nintendo are just as significant, if not then we can just add a lot of franchises to Smash with almost no ties to where it looks worst than Snake.

In a sense, it's sort of seems like a fan made rule but we shouldn't throw everything and the kitchen sink just because of Cloud. While Cloud's design and everything about him is from FF7, that doesn't mean he can't rep his own franchise in a sense anymore or his company. Megaman has separate other spinoff franchises but Sakurai went with the classic motif because it's the most iconic, popular and his final smash features every other Megaman as well that he represents them as well. The Mii costumes show that since they use Megaman X and Battle Network instead of the classic one.


I ain't saying you're wrong but Sakurai said that it would be fine for these characters to have to weight with Nintendo for years and some still do (even in Pac-Man's sake)

 

[Coricus]

I've got an idea!

Let's eat a shoe everytime we hear the word "ballot" in that video

. . .

Wait! That's a horrible idea!

Fill a dental rinse cap with tap water and drink it and refill it every time they say "ballot."

 

[CroonerMike]

Undertale is just a fad game. It will die out eventually. Anyone could make a game like that.