Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[PsychoIncarnate]

Scorpion is iconic but the Nintendo crowd don't really know him well. And it's not like Cloud where he just was on a different platform. Cloud at least still appeals to the Nintendo demographic since he's an over the top super powered JRPG sword fighter, from a game that is RELATIVELY family friendly compared to MK. And it's not like Snake either since MGS has been known for having a silly side. Hell, MGS3 has a game mode that's made to be family friendly.

Scorpion on the other hand, flat out comes from a game that's literally made for people who have a gore fetish...OK that's exaggerating a bit but you get what I mean. He just doesn't fit at all next to characters like Pikachu or Yoshi who are supposed to be as innocent as can be.

And the reason MK crossing over with DC works is because DC isn't entirely meant for kids. They have a family friendly branch, but they also have a branch meant purely for adults, that has some pretty violent and disturbing imagery at times (so much so that I doubt it's OK to post). There's a version of Batman for kids and a version for adults. However, the same is not true with Nintendo or any of their mascots.

There is some adult themes in the super Mario movie

 

[ChikoLad]

There is some adult themes in the super Mario movie

You mean that thing Nintendo never references because they are ashamed of it? :V

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Introducing the sneaker, high heel and light saber laced hybrid shoe lmao XD

 

[Z25]

You're having a Red/Blue Rescue Team scenario

Spoiler: For those uninformed

You gotta go through 3+ Dungeons back-to-back-to-back, fighting Moltres, Zapdos and Articuno one at a time in said dungeons, you're not allowed to go back at stock up on items because you got kicked out and are a wanted outcast and you lose every item you have on a single death.
Not to mention said part of the game comes completely out of nowhere with literally 0 time to prepare for this unless you know it's going to come up, and even then it's immediately after you finish ANOTHER Dungeon and you got no time to sleep which means your HP is still as low as when you finished said dungeon when you enter the first Outcast Dungeon.

Bad time.

Similar but worse, they are a floor apart and then after fighting Palkia you fight Rayquazza and if you can manage to beat him( which I have not) he mega evolves and you fight him again! So four bosses back to back!

 

[Chrono.]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

 

[wildvine47]

Scorpion is iconic but the Nintendo crowd don't really know him well. And it's not like Cloud where he just was on a different platform. Cloud at least still appeals to the Nintendo demographic since he's an over the top super powered JRPG sword fighter, from a game that is RELATIVELY family friendly compared to MK. And it's not like Snake either since MGS has been known for having a silly side. Hell, MGS3 has a game mode that's made to be family friendly.

Scorpion on the other hand, flat out comes from a game that's literally made for people who have a gore fetish...OK that's exaggerating a bit but you get what I mean. He just doesn't fit at all next to characters like Pikachu or Yoshi who are supposed to be as innocent as can be.

And the reason MK crossing over with DC works is because DC isn't entirely meant for kids. They have a family friendly branch, but they also have a branch meant purely for adults, that has some pretty violent and disturbing imagery at times (so much so that I doubt it's OK to post). There's a version of Batman for kids and a version for adults. However, the same is not true with Nintendo or any of their mascots.

I mean, it's not like Mortal Kombat doesn't have it's silly dumb moments. Need I remind everyone of Motor Kombat? Or the entire concept of Babalities? Or Friendship? Mortal Kombat I'd say is about par with MGS with the silly/serious ratio.

Also, MK is no stranger to Nintendo. Of the original three games, the SNES versions of each were the best selling versions, with the exception of the original game selling better on Genesis. And the series has been on every main Nintendo console since then, up to the Wii with Armageddon, which even had an exclusive character no other versions had. It's not unknown to Nintendo by any stretch.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

Heihachi or Nightmare are my choices.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

A difficult choice between Terry, Kyo and Heihachi, but the first won my vote in the end

 

[Bedoop]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

*Other
Hat Guy from (I think it was) King of Fighters/SNK/Whatever it was
RIE-SING TAICOO

 

[A Distant Demon]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

Other
a Skullgirls character. Probably Parasoul or Squigly. Maybe Cerebella

Spoiler: large gifs

My tastes are strange

 

[Chrono.]

*Other
Hat Guy from (I think it was) King of Fighters/SNK/Whatever it was
RIE-SING TAICOO

That's Terry Bogard, he's on the list bro

 

[Bedoop]

That's Terry Bogard, he's on the list bro

Well I didn't remember his name and I already voted other so
There's that

 

[ChikoLad]

I mean, it's not like Mortal Kombat doesn't have it's silly dumb moments. Need I remind everyone of Motor Kombat? Or the entire concept of Babalities? Or Friendship? Mortal Kombat I'd say is about par with MGS with the silly/serious ratio.

Also, MK is no stranger to Nintendo. Of the original three games, the SNES versions of each were the best selling versions, with the exception of the original game selling better on Genesis. And the series has been on every main Nintendo console since then, up to the Wii with Armageddon, which even had an exclusive character no other versions had. It's not unknown to Nintendo by any stretch.

Nintendo 20 years ago =/= Nintendo now. Same with the players. Anyone who played SNES Mortal Kombat as a kid is an adult now anyway.

However, like it or not, a large part of Nintendo's demographic today is kids and their families who have not experienced Mortal Kombat. Since Smash is often a gateway to other franchises, Nintendo are sanctioning letting kids play some of the most violent games on the planet by including Scorpion in Smash. And do you really think they will be OK with that?

And MK isn't comparable to MGS. MK has a few silly things but they are a small part of the experience and besides that, the game is a gore fantasy. On the other hand, it's possible to play through an MGS game without killing anybody except for maybe bosses.

 

[Deleted member]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

Probably the only guy or two who voted terry. Mah Pipe dream.

Kyo's cool, but just a bit too similiar to ryu, IMO. And I find Terry more fun in general.

Edit: Oh, seems other people want Terry too. Surprising, but pleasant.

 

[Arcanir]

The situation just got worse, I beat Diagla and then Palkia showed up!
I'm basically screwed here...

That dungeon is evil, I had to put it off because it'll crush you if you're not prepared.

First you have to fight Dialga and his Roar of Time, then Palkia and its better Spacial Rend, then you get to fight Rayquaza as the dungeon promised.

Spoiler

And then they throw Delta Dragon Jesus at you just for extra salt in the wound.

Also, speaking of Pokémon, I have a little fun fact:

Luxray is commonly said to be based on lions (design cues) and/or lynxes (potential mythological basis and some design cues), however there may be a third basis for the Pokémon that often gets overlooked, that being the tiger.

This one comes from its Japanese name, in Japan it's known as Rentora, which is the combination of Rentogen (Ion radiation, fitting of its electrical nature) and tora, which is Japanese for tiger. That could be the reason why Luxio and Luxray have stripes on their legs, as stripes are a trait typically associated with tigers of the feline family.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Wow. I didn't expect the DLC updates would take this long to both download and update. I think it has now been about an 1hr and a half. And the Update is saying it still has about an hour to go.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Kyo's cool, but just a bit too similiar to ryu, IMO. And I find Terry more fun in general.

You mean in regards to their normals?

If Sakurai made him a DLC character, I'm sure there would be some sort of major distinction in regards to that considering how different both of their fighting styles are.


If you mean specials I can see what you mean.

Fireball, DP, potential Side B that could act similar to Ryu's Tatsu, etc...

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

0/10 No option for Sukapon.

 

[Chrono.]

0/10 No option for Sukapon.

Because I wanted to focus on 3rd parties.

 

[Z25]

That dungeon is evil, I had to put it off because it'll crush you if you're not prepared.

First you have to fight Dialga and his Roar of Time, then Palkia and its better Spacial Rend, then you get to fight Rayquaza as the dungeon promised.

Spoiler

And then they throw Delta Dragon Jesus at you just for extra salt in the wound.

Also, speaking of Pokémon, I have a little fun fact:

Luxray is commonly said to be based on lions (design cues) and/or lynxes (potential mythological basis and some design cues), however there may be a third basis for the Pokémon that often gets overlooked, that being the tiger.

This one comes from its Japanese name, in Japan it's known as Rentora, which is the combination of Rentogen (Ion radiation, fitting of its electrical nature) and tora, which is Japanese for tiger. That could be the reason why Luxio and Luxray have stripes on their legs, as stripes are a trait typically associated with tigers of the feline family.

It's a nightmare, coming back to it with an all legends. Might do the Darkrai Dungeon first though.

And interesting, I've seen alternate fan designs of him that made him more like a tiger, but didn't know that this is where the basis came from.

 

[ChikoLad]

0/10 No option for Sukapon.

A Tekken character.

Heihachi would be most likely.

Jin would be the alternative.

Lili would be the dream...and honestly, she crosses into other games a lot.

 

[Deleted member]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

I voted for Siegfried, though I had difficulty deciding between him, Nightmare, and Akira.

 

[wildvine47]

Nintendo 20 years ago =/= Nintendo now. Same with the players. Anyone who played SNES Mortal Kombat as a kid is an adult now anyway.

However, like it or not, a large part of Nintendo's demographic today is kids and their families who have not experienced Mortal Kombat. Since Smash is often a gateway to other franchises, Nintendo are sanctioning letting kids play some of the most violent games on the planet by including Scorpion in Smash. And do you really think they will be OK with that?

And MK isn't comparable to MGS. MK has a few silly things but they are a small part of the experience and besides that, the game is a gore fantasy. On the other hand, it's possible to play through an MGS game without killing anybody except for maybe bosses.

Considering Nintendo was ok with advertising a series in which you can shoot people's heads off with realistic guns, that has gruesome scenes of people's eyes getting gouged out, has people that explode from the inside out, and where Raiden can slice people into lunchmeat? I don't think MK is much of a step up.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Oh my god there is fanart based on the Palutena guidance for Link

Spoiler

Dammit people this is not what she should be remembered for.

 

[Babycowland]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

Unfortunately, I don't really know most of those characters, so I voted "other."

If it's okay to mention someone with pretty much no chance of being in Smash, how about Edward Falcon from Power Stone? He basically already has a final smash in his power change form and his cartoony look wouldn't be out of place in Smash. Plus, he'd be the first British fighter in the series (I'm not counting Shulk, haha).

 

[ChikoLad]

Considering Nintendo was ok with advertising a series in which you can shoot people's heads off with realistic guns, that has gruesome scenes of people's eyes getting gouged out, that has people explode from the inside out, and where Raiden can slice people into lunchmeat? I don't think MK is much of a step up.

They aren't a core part of the experience though.

Mortal Kombat is literally those things for the whole game. And in way more realistic detail than MGS has ever done.

Also Sakurai DID struggle to get Snake into Smash. Scorpion would only be more of a struggle.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean in regards to their normals?

If Sakurai made him a DLC character, I'm sure there would be some sort of major distinction in regards to that considering how different both of their fighting styles are.


If you mean specials I can see what you mean.

Fireball, DP, potential Side B that could act similar to Ryu's Tatsu, etc...

I mean, in specials, yeah. But I know they're not clones as Kyo fights MUCH differently. He's a very different character.

I should've put it this way: To people not familiar with KoF, Kyo seems like a Ryu clone. Terry would just be more unique and give a better first glance impression.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I mean, it's not like Mortal Kombat doesn't have it's silly dumb moments. Need I remind everyone of Motor Kombat? Or the entire concept of Babalities? Or Friendship? Mortal Kombat I'd say is about par with MGS with the silly/serious ratio.

Also, MK is no stranger to Nintendo. Of the original three games, the SNES versions of each were the best selling versions, with the exception of the original game selling better on Genesis. And the series has been on every main Nintendo console since then, up to the Wii with Armageddon, which even had an exclusive character no other versions had. It's not unknown to Nintendo by any stretch.

Since you want to talk about Scorpion so much, I've got a question...

When did Scorpion become the defacto Mortal Kombat rep? I spoke of this on the last Source Gaming Podcast (which isn't actually going to be released for while yet) but Liu Kang was the original Mortal Kombat protagonist.

On top of that, Sub-Zero has always been the bigger ninja character. I know this has changed a bit with the reboot, but why?

Sub-Zero had his own game:

Scorpion didn't.

Sub-Zero was playable in first version of Mortal Kombat 3

Scorpion wasn't

Sub-Zero has had multiple "homage" or variation characters such as:

Frost

and

Cyber Sub-Zero

..Scorpion really hasn't.

So, why is everyone pushing Scorp as the "Ryu" of the franchise all of a sudden?

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I mean, in specials, yeah. But I know they're not clones as Kyo fights MUCH differently. He's a very different character.

I should've put it this way: To people not familiar with KoF, Kyo seems like a Ryu clone. Terry would just be more unique and give a better first glance impression.

And I think people would recognize Terry and maybe even appreciate Terry more for all those corny engrish lines he has i.e Rising Taco

 

[IceBreakerXY]

I think Scorpion could work.Hell i'm sure he would work better than some people are giving him credit for.Should he be playable.Probably not you have Ryu and honestly that's all you need for fighting games.However if we do get another character for a fighting game series i want it to be scorpion.But i still stand by my saying that if sakurai really wanted to go out with the fighting game mii costumes a couple mii costumes from mortal kombat wouldn't of hurt.But that's nether here or there..See what i did there because netherrealm studios owns scorpion...I'll just see myself out.

 

[A Distant Demon]

EDIT im dumb

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Nintendo 20 years ago =/= Nintendo now. Same with the players. Anyone who played SNES Mortal Kombat as a kid is an adult now anyway.

However, like it or not, a large part of Nintendo's demographic today is kids and their families who have not experienced Mortal Kombat. Since Smash is often a gateway to other franchises, Nintendo are sanctioning letting kids play some of the most violent games on the planet by including Scorpion in Smash. And do you really think they will be OK with that?

And MK isn't comparable to MGS. MK has a few silly things but they are a small part of the experience and besides that, the game is a gore fantasy. On the other hand, it's possible to play through an MGS game without killing anybody except for maybe bosses.

I'm not questioning most of your points from before, but I disagree with the first part and introducing him to kids. People will bring up how Ryu comes from a franchise that rarely has any appearances nowadays on Nintendo consoles, but use the counterpoint of Street Fighter 2, due to him taking the most inspiration from it. If we were to use the same logic, Scorpion should be in the same boat due to Mortal Kombat 2 and 3 being among the best selling games for the console (From what I was able to find). And if Snake was added in the game before, then I don't think it really matters that Nintendo could potentially introduce mature franchises to kids (Who were already a big demographic for the series, even with the T rating). The two are on different levels in content, greatly, but they booth have that M rating in them.

Scorpion would be judged on his merits, which are pretty big. However, considering how you need to tone down Scorpion anyway, Sakurai might see that as an injustice to the character. That's the main argument for him anyway that I can see. Some may see it as not a problem, but others and possibly even Sakurai do.

...Never thought I would argue for Scorpion in Smash Bros. My, have times changed...

 

[Deleted member]

And I think people would recognize Terry and maybe even appreciate Terry more for all those corny engrish lines he has i.e Rising Taco

"R U OKEH? BLAST TEH ROOF!!!" is what I always thought I heard during his desperation move, buster wolf.

Oh, and if Terry's in... That almost gurantees that Geese's theme would be in...

 

[wildvine47]

They aren't a core part of the experience though.

Mortal Kombat is literally those things for the whole game. And in way more realistic detail than MGS has ever done.

Also Sakurai DID struggle to get Snake into Smash. Scorpion would only be more of a struggle.

Yeah I do realize MK is a step up from MGS on the scale and that Scorpion would be harder to get in than Snake was.

I just personally think he's iconic enough to warrant it, and finally being able to have Ryu vs. Scorpion would be an incredible addition to the already all-star line-up of dream matchups. Mario vs. Sonic, Link vs. Cloud, Pac-Man vs. Donkey Kong, Samus vs. Megaman. Ryu vs. Scorpion would be an incredible addition to that.

But it's clear we both have diff opinions on it, so let's agree to disagree on it.

 

[Deleted member]

"R U OKEH? BLAST TEH ROOF!!!" is what I always thought I heard during his desperation move, blaster wolf.

Oh, and if Terry's in... That almost gurantees that Geese's theme would be in...

I hate to be that guy, but it's called "Buster Wolf".

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Honestly, I was kind of disappointed we didn't get any Mii costumes of characters from other fighting games besides Virtua Fighter and Tekken.

Heck we didn't even get any Street Fighter Mii costumes.

...And since I'm feeling really bored, 'm going to post my fighting game Mii costume wishlist:

• Ken
• Chun-Li
• M.Bison
• Charlie Nash
• Kyo
• Terry
• Haohmaru
• Nakoruru
  
• Sub Zero
• Scorpion
• Nightmare
• Siegfried
• Jago
• Fulgore

 

[Aurora Jenny]

Hm.. the 16th is when Star Wars comes out in Theatres right? Why would anyone air their broadcast then?

 

[Chrono.]

Since you want to talk about Scorpion so much, I've got a question...

When did Scorpion become the defacto Mortal Kombat rep? I spoke of this on the last Source Gaming Podcast (which isn't actually going to be released for while yet) but Liu Kang was the original Mortal Kombat protagonist.

On top of that, Sub-Zero has always been the bigger ninja character. I know this has changed a bit with the reboot, but why?

Sub-Zero had his own game:

Scorpion didn't.

Sub-Zero was playable in first version of Mortal Kombat 3

Scorpion wasn't

Sub-Zero has had multiple "homage" or variation characters such as:

Frost

and

Cyber Sub-Zero

..Scorpion really hasn't.

So, why is everyone pushing Scorp as the "Ryu" of the franchise all of a sudden?

Boon considers Scorpion to be the face of the franchise, not to mention he's the mascot of NRS.

 

[LIQUID12A]

http://strawpoll.me/6180216

If Smash had a 2nd fighting game character playable, who would you like?

*Not for DLC just in general

Only one of these that I would entertain is Nightmare, really.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Since you want to talk about Scorpion so much, I've got a question...

When did Scorpion become the defacto Mortal Kombat rep? I spoke of this on the last Source Gaming Podcast (which isn't actually going to be released for while yet) but Liu Kang was the original Mortal Kombat protagonist.

On top of that, Sub-Zero has always been the bigger ninja character. I know this has changed a bit with the reboot, but why?

Sub-Zero had his own game:

Scorpion didn't.

Sub-Zero was playable in first version of Mortal Kombat 3

Scorpion wasn't

Sub-Zero has had multiple "homage" or variation characters such as:

Frost

and

Cyber Sub-Zero

..Scorpion really hasn't.

So, why is everyone pushing Scorp as the "Ryu" of the franchise all of a sudden?

I think it has more to do with Scorpion being more recognizable (His famous line definitely helps with that). Along with that, he's been the character that's been used for crossovers, and also a personal favorite of Ed Boon (He's even in the logo for NetherRealm Studios I believe). While Sub Zero has more importance to the story I would say, Scorpion is the one that's mostly marketed and remembered (Though they're both equal I'd say).