Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Roaring Salsa]

Japan doesn't have the same cultural sensitivity as the United States. "black face" is very much a thing here, and foreigners are usually lumped into one group. In Animal Crossing: New Leaf one of the things that had to be changed was a character saying "Nice tan" to Miis with darker skin tones. If you guys are interested in this kind of stuff, I highly recommend listening to Chris Pranger's (A now, former Nintendo localizer) interview with Part Time Gamer.

This reminds me how in Xenoblade, Metal Face's true name is Black Face (only in Japan) but was changed for the localization

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Native Americans are often associated with "feathers" (Like the old racist saying goes Indian? Dot or Feather?) so having a feather and "stereotypical" Native American garb is going to offend someone, somewhere.

Honestly, from what I saw I thought that costume was censored because there's an awful lot of boob showing. Like, barely more than a pasty's worth of modesty.

 

[PushDustIn]

Honestly, from what I saw I thought that costume was censored because there's an awful lot of boob showing. Like, barely more than a pasty's worth of modesty.

That could be part of it, but if it wasn't the Native American dress then they wouldn't have changed it to a Cowboy.

 

[Chrono.]

Honestly, from what I saw I thought that costume was censored because there's an awful lot of boob showing. Like, barely more than a pasty's worth of modesty.

Yet, the cowboy hat.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

So, does anyone remember a few days ago when I mentioned trying to get Little Mac at Best Buy, but he wasn't there? Turns out they just hadn't put the amiibos out yet, I reserved one last night and picked it up today. So that's 2 amiibos (Mewtwo and Little Mac) in 3 days, bringing my total to 22.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I saw this a little bit ago and honestly, I'm in favor of the change. I don't think it's really a great idea to have a job that's mostly a scantily clad Native American stereotype, especially given the history in the U.S. and especially given the history in the U.S. and elsewhere of stereotyping native peoples and perpetuating the idea of a homogenized Native American

Whether or not it's fair to blame the developers who don't necessarily have the same cultural context, I think the localizers made the right call. It is a little funny that they went with a cowboy of all things, but I guess it makes some sense given that the job uses guns.

This completely doesn't matter with anything. The world of Bravely Second is the world of Bravely Second. A Native "American" in their world has nothing to with one in the real world.

A fantasy world can have characters be anything they want.

Also, some people need to get over all the things that happened in the past. As they all happened, in the past. Constantly reminding everyone what happened in the past breeds hatred.

Also

especially given the history in the U.S. and elsewhere of stereotyping native peoples and perpetuating the idea of a homogenized Native American.

Wat? Thats a lot of fancy words. Believing that every one acts like one thing is not a games fault. It is the person doing the believing fault for choosing to be ignorant. It is absolutely no reason for a fantasy idea to be killed off.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Yet, the cowboy hat.

Clearly, you haven't heard of our tightening standards on head coverings.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

About this censorship discussion, I know it isn't really relevant, but I think the cowboy hat looks better.

Also, I can think of one example of there being a censorship toggle in a game, the Gears of War games have/had an option to turn blood and gore on or off. That doesn't make it likely that it'll happen in any other game, but the example is there.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

I like the feather design personally over cowboy hat. Plus, I've seen enough cowboys already. Would've like to see a more naturey approach to a class that wasn't the hunter. Since the hunter's outfit is meh. Fitting for the character that gives it.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

It's interesting to think about why this was considered offensive. After all, we have games like Civ V which is chock full of specialized units based on different cultures, and nobody sees that as offensive. So, what's the difference?

What it comes down to is context. In Civ V, you're not just playing as a specific culture - every game begins with a brief history lesson educating you about that civilization and the leader you're playing as. As such, you're assured that the civ-specific units (which, to drive the comparison home, include specially designed warriors for the Iriquois who look and dress like Native Americans and have abilities based on thriving in forests and jungles) weren't just made up because they looked cool - they've been given a modicum of research and respect, and what you're seeing makes historical sense.

What we see here in Bravely Second is not that. We have a job system in which one of the jobs involves dressing up like a sexy Indian. Seriously, just read these jobs aloud to yourself: 'Knight,' 'Singer,' 'Healer,' 'Native American.' It fails to make sense in context, and what you're left with is "My job is literally to dress up like what I think an Indian looks like and do the things I think an Indian does." Imagine if they had a 'Mexican' class. Would the 'offended' reaction be any less surprising? Why?

Sure, this doesn't address the point of why the West finds this more offensive than the East. There really isn't a case to be made on that, though - one side cares more about the difference than the other, simple as that. I think however that, at the end of the day, what we're debating is context.

 

[Shroob]

http://nintendoeverything.com/krystal-wont-be-in-star-fox-zero/

And boom goes the dynamite (not that it was incredibly obvious this would be a soft reboot)

Thank god.

 

[CroonerMike]

http://nintendoeverything.com/krystal-wont-be-in-star-fox-zero/

And boom goes the dynamite (not that it was incredibly obvious this would be a soft reboot)

Thank god. This will be a great Star Fox game. Lol

 

[A Distant Demon]

(already starting to see bad arguments. great)

You see this is why I didnt want any controversy. I just wanted to play a nice RPG with great gamepley, great music, a passable story, great characters, and Edea Lee. That's all I asked. No extra fluff from the community. . .

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Thank god.

Thank god. This will be a great Star Fox game. Lol

As much I as dislike Krystal, that's just mean spirited.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

My mouse died and I bought the cheapest one I could find as a temporary replacement

It has no back or forward buttons.

That's so weird. I like, don't know how to use a computer anymore

 

[Khoru]

Also, some people need to get over all the things that happened in the past. As they all happened, in the past. Constantly reminding everyone what happened in the past breeds hatred.

this still happens
today
particularly in canada, though now that harper's out it'll probably be less garbage

also what kenbo said

 

[Con0rrrr]

I made a big mistake. I purchased Mario Tennis

At least I got a crap video out of it

 

[A Distant Demon]

My mouse died and I bought the cheapest one I could find as a temporary replacement

It has no back or forward buttons.

That's so weird. I like, don't know how to use a computer anymore

This post is much more confusing when you think that it's a real mouse and not a computer mouse.

i've never had a mouse with anything more than left, right, and scroll wheel.

 

[Chrono.]

I made a big mistake. I purchased Mario Tennis

At least I got a crap video out of it

lol the dislikes

People don't get satire.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

What we see here in Bravely Second is not that. We have a job system in which one of the jobs involves dressing up like a sexy Indian. Seriously, just read these jobs aloud to yourself: 'Knight,' 'Singer,' 'Healer,' 'Native American.' It fails to make sense in context, and what you're left with is "My job is literally to dress up like what I think an Indian looks like and do the things I think an Indian does." Imagine if they had a 'Mexican' class. Would the 'offended' reaction be any less surprising? Why?

Pirate was a class in the first game. Pirate.

And the name of the "native american class" was Tomahawk. Which is why I've been putting air quotes everytime I refer to her as a native american.

Also, I'm not sure how you didn't think Singer was weird. I mean, by the same logic, "my job is dress in ridiculous outfits and sing to people."

Also, you mentioned context, but completely forgot about it. A mexican class makes no sense because there is nothing to base it off of. Like what COULD you make it based off of.

From my limited understanding of the game, the job of the Tomahawk is that they are very good at using guns. They also have their abilities to consider, which I haven't played the game to tell you what those do.

Also, like I said, this is the Bravely Second world. Their natives can act and behave however they want.

this still happens
today
particularly in canada, though now that harper's out it'll probably be less garbage

also what kenbo said

I mean ok. Thats sad. And I mean that.

But, I mean. Don't tell me you are implying that this game would lead to Native American deaths if it kept the costume.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So tired.

So beat.

Been away.

Too much work.

Someone come hold all this work for me.

But not the money. God help you if you touch my money.

 

[A Distant Demon]

I made a big mistake. I purchased Mario Tennis

At least I got a crap video out of it

"Mario Tennis Ultra Smash is the Mona Lisa. . . Without the Mona Lisa"

Damn If I didn't have to use my signature for advertisement you can be damn sure I would slap that quote on there.
stupid tiny sig dimensions

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Mona Lisa made an appearance in TMNT recently

She's a fan favorite

 

[Shadowwolflink]

I think Ultra Smash looks really fun...

 

[Fenriraga]

Krystal not returning... is kinda for the best if you ask me. It's the last bit of remnants of RARE that they were forced to keep around out of continuity. I don't think Miyamoto even had much to do with any game past adventures until 64 3D.

I'm not saying ditch Krystal entirely, but give her a soft reboot as well, to fit in more with how Miyamoto sees Star Fox.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ultra Smash does look fun for the most part.

Just not worth the price.

 

[Chrono.]

I'm fine with Krystal never returning. She was not meant to be a Star Fox character and it was pretty noticeable later on. It doesn't help that most of her character was just there to be Fox's love interest and little else.

If they do decide to add a fifth core SF member, I hope they use Katt or one of the SF2 characters that were cut.

 

[Shroob]

As much I as dislike Krystal, that's just mean spirited.

I'm sorry, but literally nothing in the world will make me like Krystal, especially after how she was portrayed in Command. I cannot say a single nice thing about the character, and what I'd like to say is most likely censored here.

 

[Dravidian]

this still happens
today
particularly in canada, though now that harper's out it'll probably be less garbage

also what kenbo said

Not to mention that things that happened in the past still affect the present. Cause and effect and all that jazz. I mean native americans had their land stolen and all they have to show for it are casinos, a few museums, and a really small amount of land and "benefits".

Ignoring the past runs the risk of making the same mistakes as our predecessors. Sweeping things under a rug seldom works in real life, ya know. It's one of those things that sounds good on paper, but when you actually try it you realize it was a pretty horrible idea. Instead of ignoring the past, we should use knowledge of past events to pave the future a bit better. Easier said than done, of course, but I believe it's true.

It'll take a long time, though. As long as both side make an effort to rectify problms and forgive each other things will eventually turn out fine, but centuries of bad blood isnt gonna disappear over night. Plain and simple.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I walked up and down stairs for ten minutes.

Fit Power!

 

[PushDustIn]

Ultra Smash does look fun for the most part.

Just not worth the price.

This. It looks beautiful, and Classic Tennis looks okay. It's just not worth 60 USD.

 

[powerprotoman]

watch theres going to be 10$ dlc that adds just enough to warrant the price tag for ultra tennis

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

watch theres going to be 10$ dlc that adds just enough to warrant the price tag for ultra tennis

In that case you might as well make it free

 

[DeathFox137]

I'm fine with Krystal never returning. She was not meant to be a Star Fox character and it was pretty noticeable later on. It doesn't help that most of her character was just there to be Fox's love interest and little else.

If they do decide to add a fifth core SF member, I hope they use Katt or one of the SF2 characters that were cut.

Even if I sort of have a soft spot for Krystal, I kinda noticed that too. It's not a total loss after all. I just wish that they spent more time with the character than a love interest. My guess was that time constraints led to what Krystal is back then when Dinosaur Planet was changed to StarFox. If you ask me, even characters can go through certain changes. Especially Krystal. So yeah. If the character doesn't change when she ever returns or if they don't have plans, I agree with you.

 

[PushDustIn]

watch theres going to be 10$ dlc that adds just enough to warrant the price tag for ultra tennis

I thought they would've announced a "free update" to the game that essentially completes it in the upcoming months in the last ND. I even had it on my bingo card

 

[finalark]

Anyone who thinks that Krystal literally exists to be Fox's love interest is either forgetting or didn't pick up on that fact that she's really the series' "spiritual alien." Especially her portrayal in Assault.

Of course, if you didn't watch Sci-Fi shows like Star Trek TNG, Babylon 5 or Farscape that were a thing from the mid-80s to the mid-00s you probably won't pick up on this.

 

[aldelaro5]

I made a big mistake. I purchased Mario Tennis

At least I got a crap video out of it

holy omg this was actually fun to watch

but really? why say you can play with your friends while you can;t do it wihout luck?

And I don;t think I needed much of his commentary to get that the game is indeed basic, like omg, why is this 50$?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

A Rare created character that was meant to be in a franchise made by Rare, but was added into an already existing Nintendo franchise instead, who now no longer makes appearances in their franchise, and has a loud fanbase that really wants them in Smash Bros. Where have I heard that before?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Anyone who thinks that Krystal literally exists to be Fox's love interest is either forgetting or didn't pick up on that fact that she's really the series' "spiritual alien." Especially her portrayal in Assault.

Of course, if you didn't watch Sci-Fi shows like Star Trek TNG, Babylon 5 or Farscape that were a thing from the mid-80s to the mid-00s you probably won't pick up on this.

Indeed. Krystal at her core is just a sci-fi trope.

And before Command, she was a fun spin on it.

Krystal has potential which is why I want her back. I just want her and Panther as members of Star Wolf.

They can do a lot of things with that.

 

[finalark]

Indeed. Krystal at her core is just a sci-fi trope.

And before Command, she was a fun spin on it.

I never played the single player in Command, but apparently it's god awful. Could anyone elaborate on why it's so bad? Normally the only complaint I hear is that it basically ***** the cannon.

Which is weird for a series where a good chunk of the fan base supposedly doesn't care about story.