Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[PushDustIn]

Oh of course, we're not just getting a second character. However, I do believe that for as savvy as Nintendo got in terms of making sure data doesn't leak, they wouldn't/couldn't just not add the placeholder data, as they need that to test the character in dev builds. That, to me, points moreso towards Wolf (which is understandable given his veteran status and popularity), but I also see Inklings still coming separately, just revealed and not released (logic would dictate that there's at least going to be four characters altogether for Fighter Bundle #2 since FB#1 had four).

That's only a thing in the states. In Japan it's labelled as Fighter Bundles 1 (Mewtwo) and 2 (Lucas, Roy, Ryu) together. I wouldnt put too much stock into that.

 

[NintenZ]

The rumor has lost all credibility whatsoever thanks to Cloud Strife. There is no reason to believe it any longer unless you're paranoid or something.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Shovel Knight is still THE indie character so it's not as if he's insignificant. I'd wager his cameo in Indivisible took some off the fence.

On a different topic, I thought there'd be no more surprises as the Ballot characters had to sell and you couldn't do that with an out of nowhere choice. Sakuria surprises us be having one that was unexpected and huge.

 

[Champ Gold]

I didn't say she only "can" be a clone. But she would almost certainly borrow moves from Diddy Kong.
And people have been clamouring for King K. Rool for years. Dixie Kong hasn't been as requested. And with the "Kampaign" going, there will be as much salt as there is celebration.

But you implied that she was one when

1. We don't even know if she's in or not
2. We haven't seen her moveset

Plus Dixie still have a major following. The Kampaign means nothing considering that most K. Rool fans would be fine with Dixie.

This ain't like a Wolf vs Krystal situation where it had to be one or the other and everyone was at each other's throat.

She may not have the demand, but that doesn't mean she didn't have a following just as large. I've been in this same argument before, Dixie can't even be close to Diddy in moveset similarities because how radically different their styles are in the DK games and she has that following since 1994 and no one would be upset aside from the minority which lets be honest, Salt is gonna happen regardless (we've said that before)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Really? Shovel Knight would be less hyped than Wolf or Dixie Kong, a veteran semi-clone and a semi-clone?
Nintendo fans have been hyping this game for over two years now, and this is a Nintendo game. Outside the dedicated Smash community, Shovel Knight would be extremely hype.

Yup. Both those characters are requested world-wide wheras Shovel knight barely gets any support over in Japan. And they are both much better known among Nintendo fans than him.

Dixie Kong was the Breakout character of DKC2, a popular game that sold around 5 million copies, being popular enough to become the main character of DKC3, a game that sold around 3 million copies. She has exposure in several other well-selling DKC games plus that cartoon that was popular enough in Japan to get unique merchandise over there.

Wolf ended up being a well-remembered and popular villain of Star Fox 64( a game that sold around 4 million copies) to the point that he spawned memorable memes. He also has exposure as a playable character in Brawl.

Tldr version: Yes, because they are both more well-known than SK and receives major support both in the east and in the west.

We still talking about Shovel Knight?
Seriously, when will it end? One side doesn't want to let the rumor die and the other brings his "unnimportance" even when the topic has nothing to do with it

I honestly think that rumor is deader than dead but I'm not going to rule out Shovel Knight because of that
And I'm gonna say it again, the Smash fanbase underestimates how popular SK is

I think it's more like Shovel Knight's popularity is greatly exaggerated.

 

[NintenZ]

Shovel Knight is still THE indie character so it's not as if he's insignificant. I'd wager his cameo in Indivisible took some off the fence.

On a different topic, I thought there'd be no more surprises as the Ballot characters had to sell and you couldn't do that with an out of nowhere choice. Sakuria surprises us be having one that was unexpected and huge.

And Madonna is still THE pop idol?

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Getting Shovel Knight after we have gotten third-party characters like Cloud and Ryu as DLC is something I don't believe in for a moment. Cloud and Ryu are insanely profitable for Nintendo, more so than any highly requested Nintendo characters, even taking into account the fact that the profits would have to be split due to their third-party status.

i promise despite being agasint shovel knight and indies you always find a way to put him in one of your post.If you dont like the character why do you keep bringing him up

i think it's more like Shovel Knight's popularity is greatly exaggerated.

Not really there's a reason why he got an amiibo,there's a reason why all the other indie games want him in there game.He's the indie.I say Besides quote s probably the most well known one.Your downplaying is popularity

 

[Schnee117]

Master Chief is an icon for the FPS genre. His games have redefined FPS games on the console. He's very important and very recognizable.

That being said, he presents very unique design challenges which will probably prohibit him getting in. For starters, it would be difficult to include realistic firearms in Smash without raising the ratings in the US. AFAIK Master Chief would only use guns (and two at a time!), maybe his sword for melee attacks or whatever which would make designing a move set around difficult. If Sakurai could figure out Little Mac, then I'm sure he could work something out if it became a thing. I also think he stands out a bit more (design wise) compared to the rest of the cast and wouldn't fit in the game...but that's just a personal opinion.

Likelihood - 25%

The problem is that the Energy Sword is more synonymous with the Sangheili (Elites) than it is with Humans. Has he wielded it before? Sure. But he's wielded pretty much every Halo weapon and a Sword is pointless when he's adept at hand to hand combat such as when he beat 4 ODSTs in a boxing ring at the age of 14. If any Halo character were to use an Energy Sword it would be Thel 'Vadam with the Prophet's Bane.

Chief's usually seen with the Assault Rifle and Magnum in his default loadouts. I suppose to get around it his Assault Rifle and Magnum could make use of the Kinetic Bolts attachments in Warzone so he's actually firing Hardlight instead of actual Bullets. I could also see the use of power weapons like the Rocket Launcher and Spartan Laser, Spartan abilities (Ground Pound, Spartan Charge and Thrusters) and if he really needs something else then the equipment from Halo 3.

 

[LIQUID12A]

As a DLC character I believe Shovel Knight is dead. As a Mii costume, however...I think it's still plausible, not to mention easier.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As a DLC character I believe Shovel Knight is dead. As a Mii costume, however...I think it's still plausible.

Do you think we could also get an Agnes costume?

 

[Champ Gold]

Since we're on the subject of Mii Fighter costumes, can we get some from Street Fighter


Seriously, no Ken, Chun-Li or M. Bison costumes.

And some from Sonic as well and you can bring in Dragon Quest, Xenosaga, NiGHTS and Resident Evil.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Do you think we could also get an Agnes costume?

Don't see how that relates to Shovel Knight and your love to hate obsession fixation for him, but...

Square's involvement with the game makes Final Fantasy costumes inevitable as we saw with the Chocobo. Only if they decide to allow their other properties into Smash can I see non-Final Fantasy stuff like Agnes becoming costumes. Though given how the companies in Smash already stuck a ton of series as Mii costumes, I can see Square doing the same. Maybe even a Geno costume to finally please his fans.

 

[PushDustIn]

As a DLC character I believe Shovel Knight is dead. As a Mii costume, however...I think it's still plausible, not to mention easier.

If SK is in as a costume, than the rumor is false. The source is confident that SK is a character.

The source is also confident that Shovel Knight is a full playable character, and not a costume or some other form of DLC.

One more thing...

Here's what SK has going for him:

1. He'd balance Cloud perfectly. I actually mentioned this at the end of the first SourceCast episode (so if it's true, I deserve all the fame and glory) that a Japanese rep coupled with SK would make sense. Cloud and SK are opposite ends of the spectrum in almost every aspect. In a way, they balance each other. Releasing them together would ensure someone has something to be happy about...well almost everyone.
(Notice how Cloud doesnt have an English voice actor? Even though he has one for his game...)

2. Plus SK is in a ton of crossovers and looks like he will continue to be relevant to modern indie gaming -- something people often forget when suggesting legacy characters. Even if you dont know SK and his game directly, the likelihood of you running into him is MUCH higher than Shantae.

I did the points I see against SK before, so I guess this should balance my thoughts.

 

[EmceeEspio]

Since we're on the subject of Mii Fighter costumes, can we get some from Street Fighter


Seriously, no Ken, Chun-Li or M. Bison costumes.

And some from Sonic as well and you can bring in Dragon Quest, Xenosaga, NiGHTS and Resident Evil.

Slime hat or bust.

If SEGA could pull some strings with Crypton Future Media then Hatsune Miku would be a great costume. Could be Fighter, Swordsman with her iconic leek, or Gunner with a radio/boom box/microphone you get it.

 

[TheAnvil]

Assuming that Dixie would be a semi-clone of Diddy is the most baffling fan rule of ALL. It'd be like assuming that Shovel Knight would be a semi-clone of the Villager.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

quare's involvement with the game makes Final Fantasy costumes inevitable as we saw with the Chocobo. Only if they decide to allow their other properties into Smash can I see non-Final Fantasy stuff like Agnes becoming costumes. Though given how the companies in Smash already stuck a ton of series as Mii costumes, I can see Square doing the same.

Coolio. An Agnes costume would make sense given the success of Bravely Default on the 3DS.

 

[NintenZ]

As a DLC character I believe Shovel Knight is dead. As a Mii costume, however...I think it's still plausible, not to mention easier.

Actually, I think all of the characters with Amiibo could still be costumes, I mean we have Toad and Inkling, so why not Shovel Knight as a Swordfighter and Chibi-Robo as a Brawler?

 

[LIQUID12A]

If SK is in as a costume, than the rumor is false. The source is confident that SK is a character.

I'm perfectly aware of what the source says and the points in Shovel Knight's favor. But can't we acknowledge other possibilities as well? With all due respect, confidence in something has failed us in the past, which is why Chrom is stuck in that Smash Ball and people kept banking on Wolf for the umpteenth time(and look at that, he's not in for the 6th round of DLC as far as we know). Legitimate source or not, it's perfectly reasonable to be open to other outcomes happening. Sure, it'll hurt your reputation given your extensive reporting on it should it be false, but hey, you probably knew that when you declared standing by the rumor.

Not saying you should drop it completely; just taking note of what else could happen.

Actually, I think all of the characters with Amiibo could still be costumes, I mean we have Toad and Inkling, so why not Shovel Knight as a Swordfighter and Chibi-Robo as a Brawler?

Doesn't make sense, really, since those amiibo have no connection to Smash at all.

 

[PushDustIn]

I'm perfectly aware of what the source says and the points in Shovel Knight's favor. But can't we acknowledge other possibilities as well? With all due respect, confidence in something has failed us in the past, which is why Chrom is stuck in that Smash Ball and people kept banking on Wolf for the umpteenth time(and look at that, he's not in for the 6th round of DLC as far as we know). Legitimate source or not, it's perfectly reasonable to be open to other outcomes happening. Sure, it'll hurt your reputation given your extensive reporting on it should it be false, but hey, you probably knew that when you declared standing by the rumor.

Not saying you should drop it completely; just taking note of what else could happen.



Doesn't make sense, really, since those amiibo have no connection to Smash at all.

I'm aware! I even wrote out a mini case against him in this post:

Don't bother pming me for more information. Anything that I can talk about public, I will. I won't provide anyone with additional details just because it's in PM. It's kind of unfair for everyone else. I realize the position I'm in with this kind of information, and I need to respect it so please do the same. I'm not trying to mislead the community. If you've read three posts on SG then you would know that. If I didn't think there was good enough reason that the SK rumor could still be true I wouldn't tell you that I still possibly believe it.

Right now the only I think he can't get in is because of personal bias.

I don't think he's iconic enough, something I've said since the start of the ballot.

I think if SK was in the game, they would announce him before hand so Japanese users could get introduced to him before he's on sale.

However that's just based on opinion. Granted an informed one, but still an opinion.

As @Burb said a perfect track record is nothing to sneeze at.

As for RogersBase, like I said I never got a clear picture of the source or who it was. I don't know if the source was on some team, part of the media team or what. But I will admit that that rumor should probably be considered dead. The issue with rumors is sometimes speculation gets interjected into them (sometimes on the source, sometimes on the reporter). So there's that issue too.

For Cloud, there were a couple of people on Neogaf and one guy on Gamefaqs that knew. I'm guessing once it got to NoA it got leaked but that's just my personal speculation.

Speaking of Cloud, I don't think he has an English voice. They wouldn't have subbed his trailer if he had one.

Also, I personally don't expect any more SE costumes. Would have made sense to put them in the trailer (especially if the costumes were other FF characters).

I'm less confident as more time goes on, but I dont have any legit reason to drop it completely. It's probably better if I did just drop it (for my reputation, but then again I think the work I've done on SG will outweigh me backing an incorrect rumor in the end as I've never intentionally mislead anyone), but I feel like I'd by lying if I said it wasn't at least somewhat possible and based on the source and the information there is no need to deny it completely.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Spoiler

The only problem with your logic is that you can't be part of an Yuri relationship

Spoiler

I don't need to be, being a yuri shipper helps with this
Plus asexual

 

[Substitution]

At this point, I'm not trusting anything 'till the Direct. That will be when I believe the Shovel Knight rumor or not. Anything else is merely speculation.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

PushDustIn Heres a question for the podcast.Would you guys like to see splatoon recieve content from other nintendo franchises.Ex,kakariko village,Halbred,Mario clothes,etc. And if so what would you like to see

 

[Deleted member]

I think it's more like Shovel Knight's popularity is greatly exaggerated.

Most of this thread makes it seem like he's a character from a niche indie game
When SK was announced, he not only brought back popularity and hope for Kickstarter projects but the game was also pretty hyped and was all over gaming websites during all of the pre-release, even after the game's delay
And it lived to that hype when the game was released and critically acclaimed even winning some game awards
Smash fans, however, were too busy with their precoious Gematsu leak to care about anything other than Smash
Do not act like your lack of interest for general gaming makes SK some niche character
Literally anywhere outside these forums, the game is insanely popular

 

[NintenZ]

Nevermind, I made a mistake. I misunderstood what was going on.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I'm less confident as more time goes on, but I dont have any legit reason to drop it completely. It's probably better if I did just drop it (for my reputation, but then again I think the work I've done on SG will outweigh me backing an incorrect rumor in the end as I've never intentionally mislead anyone), but I feel like I'd be lying if I said it wasn't at least somewhat possible and based on the source and the information there is no need to deny it completely.

And I reiterate that dropping it completely is not what I'm asking you to do; merely just acknowledging other, just as plausible outcomes such as a Mii costume or simply not being in the game outright. Now, I'm not against Shovel Knight in concept, I do love his game and he's a cool character, but I always raise eyebrows at high confidence with seemingly little to go by(what you can actually tell us, fwiw). This is no different. I'll accept it should he be in, but for now I remain indifferent. I'm just being cautious.

Push, please don't take this the wrong way, I mean no offense in this at all, but from what I can tell nobody seems to be on your side in this case, almost nothing about the rumor seems legitimate at all anymore, and its' deadline is tomorrow, so please, just let go?

Don't take this the wrong way, but here it seems you want the rumor's main backer to drop it just to quench your desperation of the rumor being false.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Most of this thread makes it seem like he's a character from a niche indie game
When SK was announced, he not only brought back popularity and hope for Kickstarter projects but the game was also pretty hyped and was all over gaming websites during all of the pre-release, even after the game's delay
And it lived to that hype when the game was released and critically acclaimed even winning some game awards
Smash fans, however, were too busy with their precoious Gematsu leak to care about anything other than Smash
Do not act like your lack of interest for general gaming makes SK some niche character
Literally anywhere outside these forums, the game is insanely popular

His game has yet to sell a million copies wheras every single third-party character we have gotten comes from franchises that has sold millions of copies. He really isn't anywhere as big as the third-party characters we have gotten.

 

[NintenZ]

And I reiterate that dropping it completely is not what I'm asking you to do; merely just acknowledging other, just as plausible outcomes such as a Mii costume or simply not being in the game outright. Now, I'm not against Shovel Knight in concept, I do love his game and he's a cool character, but I always raise eyebrows at high confidence with seemingly little to go by(what you can actually tell us, fwiw). This is no different. I'll accept it should he be in, but for now I remain indifferent.



Don't take this the wrong way, but here it seems you want the rumor's main backer to drop it just to quench your desperation of the rumor being false.

Nevermind, it was a mistake I made.

 

[Deleted member]

Square Mii costumes?
Crono and the rest on their designated classes
I guess Bravely Default? I need to get that game from my friend and play it someday
Lol DQ lol
Celes and Cecil Mii costumes? But we already have Black Knight...
Sora for the lulz

His game has yet to sell a million copies wheras every single third-party character we have gotten comes from franchises that has sold millions of copies. He really isn't anywhere as big as the third-party characters we have gotten.

I dunno, I think being a year old and only having one game until now exclsuive to digital causes this...
But hey, your guess is as good as mine!

Spoiler

I don't need to be, being a yuri shipper helps with this
Plus asexual

Spoiler

But the ship is bound to sink one day
Ha, but now you can't be part of my Yaoi harem either so I win!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I dunno, I think being a year old and only having one game until now exclsuive to digital causes this...
But hey, your guess is as good as mine!

Exactly, and Sakurai stated that a third-party character needed to carry gaming history and all the third-party characters we have gotten are old characters who has been around for decades.

 

[Kenith]

Most of this thread makes it seem like he's a character from a niche indie game
When SK was announced, he not only brought back popularity and hope for Kickstarter projects but the game was also pretty hyped and was all over gaming websites during all of the pre-release, even after the game's delay
And it lived to that hype when the game was released and critically acclaimed even winning some game awards
Smash fans, however, were too busy with their precoious Gematsu leak to care about anything other than Smash
Do not act like your lack of interest for general gaming makes SK some niche character
Literally anywhere outside these forums, the game is insanely popular

...As long as it's Nintendo.
I don't think non-Nintendo fans care about Shovel Knight.

 

[SuperMii3D]

Isn't there supposed to be a Pokemon announcement today?! Can someone give me a sign >_>

 

[NintenZ]

Nevermind again, stupid questions equal stupid questions.

 

[Chrono.]

Isn't there supposed to be a Pokemon announcement today?! Can someone give me a sign >_>

You mean Masuda at that Pokemon show?

He's just gonna talk about music, no announcements there.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly, and Sakurai stated that a third-party character needed to carry gaming history and all the third-party characters we have gotten are old characters who has been around for decades.

That's implying there is a pattern
Just because one thing happened doesn't mean the others will be like that

...As long as it's Nintendo.
I don't think non-Nintendo fans care about Shovel Knight.

...
This is a game mainly about Nintendo characters on a Nintendo console, what's your point?

 

[SuperMii3D]

You mean Masuda at that Pokemon show?

He's just gonna talk about music, no announcements there.

That makes a lot more sense. Thanks.

 

[Captain Fun]

The only indie that I think remotely stands a chance (Not that much but still) is Shantae, because of her overwhelming popularity and her contributions to the indie community as a whole. (Also welcome to thread @GhostlyLure it's nice to see ya!)

Shantae is a commercial dud though, far more niche than many other indies. What "contributions"?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That's implying there is a pattern
Just because one thing happened doesn't mean the others will be like that

No, but when gaming history is an actual third-party rule Sakurai has stated and kept for all 6 third-party characters we have gotten throughout Smash history I see no reason to entertain the possibility of him doing an 180 on that actual rule.

 

[Kenith]

...
This is a game mainly about Nintendo characters on a Nintendo console, what's your point?

Easy, I'm just warning you so you don't overstate the hype around Shovel Knight.
It's mostly Nintendo and retro fans who like it.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

That could be about the Remake though?

Depends. Voice actors are usually way late into development of games. They are still probably working on the gameplay so I doubt it. Especially if it comes out in Japan first. (Not sure on FF release dates)

I think it is just more probable he was referring to smash.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Cloud has seriously made me somewhat want Master Chief in Smash. Sakurai has ruined me.