Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Swamp Sensei]

Did some digging.

Looks like that Star Fox Zero has made a fifth of Star Fox Command's life time Japanese sales in a week or so.

Not a bad rate.

 

[Burruni]

So, I find it interesting how in Hyrule Warriors, Sheik, Ganondorf and Toon Link have some influence from Smash Bros. in their movesets. (Note that I use Zelda-style controls, where B is the normal attack button and Y is for strong attacks and combo finishers).

Sheik's complete combo with B has her use a breakdancing-like move similar to her down Smash. Her weak point attack is similar to her jab combo. She also throws kunai similar to how she throws needles in Smash in some of her moves.

Ganondorf has the Warlock Punch as it appears in Brawl onward in his Bx4 -> Y combo, using it to shatter a magic ball into smaller ones. (And if you look closely, it's actually a reverse Warlock Punch. He turns back on the ball right after dropping it and only then the punching animation starts as he turns around again to punch it.)

Toon Link's weak point attack is very reminiscent of his down taunt from Smash, with him swinging the sword wildly before growing tired.

Another small nod is that Tink's Spin Attack has him at the same tilted angle when it uses it to ascend (I wanna say it's his C4 aka Bx3 -> Yx3).

Also is it now the concensus that the R&C's movie's score is not of fan lash but of general bad quality?

 

[ChikoLad]

Toon Link also has an idle animation in Hyrule Warriors if you wait about 18 seconds, that's similar to his Wind Waker taunt in Smash.

Another Smash inspiration from a recent game is:

Spoiler

Rosalina's theme in Mini-Mario & Friends, is based on the Smash version. Different instrumentation, but the tempo is identical and it incorporates Luma's theme like the Smash version.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If we are getting a new Retro IP, I wonder what genre it would be and how the protagonist would look like? Any theories? What about you, Swamp Sensei ?

 

[ChikoLad]

If we are getting a new Retro IP, I wonder what genre it would be and how the protagonist would look like? Any theories? What about you, Swamp Sensei ?

Can't make a theory without any material to study.

Literally. At this point, it's just blind guesses.

 

[Frostwraith]

Another small nod is that Tink's Spin Attack has him at the same tilted angle when it uses it to ascend (I wanna say it's his C4 aka Bx3 -> Yx3).

Ah, I didn't know that. Haven't played as Toon Link a lot yet and haven't unlocked any of his extended combos either (because I can't find the necessary materials yet, which are probably only found on the Wind Waker maps).

Anyway, I saw some Ganondorf videos with the Trident and he uses some punches infused with darkness similar to Smash. One of his moves is even a shoulder charge similar to his dash attack in Smash.

Overall, HW Ganondorf combines all of Ganondorf/Ganon's fighting styles with some Demise inspiration in an awesome way and I love it:
1. Dual wields swords like OoT Ganon and WW Ganondorf.
2. The swords are huge and bulky like the SpaceWorld 2000 demo and OoT Ganon. One of the swords even looks like a combination of Demise's sword with the SpaceWorld demo sword.
3. Has a lightning sword strike like Demise.
4. Uses magic balls like almost every of his appearances either as Ganondorf or Ganon. He can shoot them from the tip of a sword like in Twilight Princess.
5. Can use magic to pound the ground and create shockwaves like in OoT and Smash's Flame Wave special in the air.
6. Can use a trident like classic Ganon, even having a boomerang-like attack similar to one he does in Four Swords Adventures.
7. Can use hand-to-hand combat maneuvers infused with darkness like in Smash.

Anyone can agree that HW Ganondorf is best Ganondorf.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Exactly. Power Tennis and the Game Boy ones were indeed Mario Tennis at its best. Open was definitely OK while Ultra Smash was just a forced rushed game released for the holidays with just a Mega Mushroom as the main gimmick.

Maybe it's nostalgia getting to me, but I sure didn't find any enjoyably out of that game at all. Still better than Amiibo Festival.

Frankly, I find that Ultra Smash was among the worst Mario Tennis installment titles out there. It heavily lacks the features that past Mario Tennis titles have, which includes an actual Tournament mode.

And don't get me started with the weak roster either. The biggest bombshell is seeing Bowser Jr. use his Junior Clown Car to play tennis; something that he "never" used at all in his past Mario Tennis appearances. Do I have to say how lazy that is?!

And then we have Rosalina, where she's treated as a Power-type character. Seriously, that just feels very wrong, because Rosalina isn't even a bulky person when you compare her to Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser. If anything, Rosalina looks a lot more like a Tricky-type character who could've easily utilized her magic powers to give her shots powerful curves.

Anyway, Ultra Smash is just a mess, and even Rosalina's presence just doesn't save the game from being forgettable.

 

[ChikoLad]

Frankly, I find that Ultra Smash was among the worst Mario Tennis installment titles out there. It heavily lacks the features that past Mario Tennis titles have, which includes an actual Tournament mode.

And don't get me started with the weak roster either. The biggest bombshell is seeing Bowser Jr. use his Junior Clown Car to play tennis; something that he "never" used at all in his past Mario Tennis appearances. Do I have to say how lazy that is?!

And then we have Rosalina, where she's treated as a Power-type character. Seriously, that just feels very wrong, because Rosalina isn't even a bulky person when you compare her to Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser. If anything, Rosalina looks a lot more like a Tricky-type character who could've easily utilized her magic powers to give her shots powerful curves.

Anyway, Ultra Smash is just a mess, and even Rosalina's presence just doesn't save the game from being forgettable.

We've been over this loads of times in the Rosalina Social.

It's OK if you don't like the fact that she is a Power class, but there is no reason to go around saying it doesn't make sense when it makes perfect sense.

 

[Frostwraith]

So, about Hyrule Warriors Legends DLC... So far, they've revealed Medli and Marin as new additions.

The Link's Awakening pack adds Marin and there will be a Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks pack with a new character and A Link Between Worlds pack with two more characters.

Assuming those new characters are tied to the games the packs are themed after, I can assume we'll have 1 character from either Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks and 2 from A Link Between Worlds.

As for who the 3 characters might be, my predictions are:
- Linebeck: he appears in Phantom Hourglass and his identical-looking descendant appears in Spirit Tracks, plus he's a popular character, so it makes sense he might be the next character revealed after Marin.
- Ravio: a major character in A Link Between Worlds and could use some of the unique items from that game.
- Yuga: the main villain of A Link Between Worlds who could use his paintbrush staff thing as a weapon. I actually would like to see him in HW along with fellow villains Ganondorf, Ghirahim, Zant and Skull Kid.

Other [less likely] possibilites:
- Phantom Zelda: appears in Spirit Tracks and Phantoms also appear in Phantom Hourglass, so it wouldn't be a very surprising choice.
- Hilda: one of the main characters in A Link Between Worlds, though I wonder what kind of fighting abilities would she have...

 

[powerprotoman]

and in yokai watch news we got new yokai...sort of

(also ff14 got a bunch of minions, weapons and a mount based off of yokai watch)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

We've been over this loads of times in the Rosalina Social.

It's OK if you don't like the fact that she is a Power class, but there is no reason to go around saying it doesn't make sense when it makes perfect sense.

She does feel out of place when you look at the other Power-type characters though.

and in yokai watch news we got new yokai...sort of

(also ff14 got a bunch of minions, weapons and a mount based off of yokai watch)

So there are some Final Fantasy references now; Chocobo and Moogle no doubt.

 

[A Distant Demon]

and in yokai watch news we got new yokai...sort of

(also ff14 got a bunch of minions, weapons and a mount based off of yokai watch)

Well those are certainly some interesting additions, kupo

 

[ChikoLad]

She does feel out of place when you look at the other Power-type characters though.



So there are some Final Fantasy references now; Chocobo and Moogle no doubt.

Not really. She's bigger than most of the Power characters. She is a heavyweight in Mario Kart, which usually translates to a character being a Power type in sports games. And she has a fit body with some actual meat on her bones, which is more than can be said for a lot of female video game characters that are depicted as somehow having insane physical strength despite being thin as a rake or shortstacks.

I could go more into it, but the whole thing really boils down to that.

 

[Chandeelure]

I have to wonder whether she means superior as in just some graphical and framerate upgrades or if we are getting brand new content just for the NX version.

I'm pretty sure it's superior because it has Waddle Dee as a character.
Also Ridley.

 

[powerprotoman]

She does feel out of place when you look at the other Power-type characters though.



So there are some Final Fantasy references now; Chocobo and Moogle no doubt.

well if by references you mean straight up official crossover with final fantasy then yes

 

[IsmaR]

So, I find it interesting how in Hyrule Warriors, Sheik, Ganondorf and Toon Link have some influence from Smash Bros. in their movesets. (Note that I use Zelda-style controls, where B is the normal attack button and Y is for strong attacks and combo finishers).

Sheik's complete combo with B has her use a breakdancing-like move similar to her down Smash. Her weak point attack is similar to her jab combo. She also throws kunai similar to how she throws needles in Smash in some of her moves.

Ganondorf has the Warlock Punch as it appears in Brawl onward in his Bx4 -> Y combo, using it to shatter a magic ball into smaller ones. (And if you look closely, it's actually a reverse Warlock Punch. He turns back on the ball right after dropping it and only then the punching animation starts as he turns around again to punch it.)

Toon Link's weak point attack is very reminiscent of his down taunt from Smash, with him swinging the sword wildly before growing tired.

Zelda's Focus Spirit/"ultimate" Attack is also all three of magical spells from both OoT and her Smash moveset, with the aesthetics resembling the latter despite being executed in a similar fashion as in the former.

There's also numerous unlockable costumes resembling Smash alts/palettes, including Black Sheik, Purple Link (technically appeared in Soul Calibur first), and even "Old Man" Ganondorf.

 

[Con0rrrr]

From my source that I've talked with you guys in the past, I can tell you don't discount someone if they said NX was coming this year.

Up until very very recently that was most definitely the plan.

Sony was planning the PS4.5 for October full on expecting an NX November release.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not really. She's bigger than most of the Power characters. She is a heavyweight in Mario Kart, which usually translates to a character being a Power type in sports games. And she has a fit body with some actual meat on her bones, which is more than can be said for a lot of female video game characters that are depicted as somehow having insane physical strength despite being thin as a rake or shortstacks.

I could go more into it, but the whole thing really boils down to that.

I do think Power-type for Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser, since they're all bulky characters who pack a punch, but I just do not get that vibe with Rosalina.

 

[Burruni]

There's also numerous unlockable costumes resembling Smash alts/palettes, including Black Sheik, Purple Link (technically appeared in Soul Calibur first), and even "Old Man" Ganondorf.

I beg to differ

 

[Aetheri]

I was just saying is it worth it for a system to have a metroid game, but that game being other M than having no metroid game

I forgot about Prime 3 though, though it was on the gamecube like the other primes

Prime 3 only came out on the wii btw...the first two Primes were Gamecube...

 

[Kirby Dragons]

The fact that is the protector of the universe and the powerful Lumas should justify her being a Power class character.

 

[Deleted member]

I haven't posted in a while so time for a Kokonoe "lulz G@M3 TH30RY".

Rosalina and Luma didn't originate in Smash Bros. U, the first instance of them being a pairing is Mario Kart Wii.

As she races, Luma is there with her.

And in her trailer, she is introduced via Mario Kart.

Perhaps although her moveset doesn't have any Mario Kart references, perhaps in some small way she references Mario Kart?

 

[ChikoLad]

I do think Power-type for Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser, since they're all bulky characters who pack a punch, but I just do not get that vibe with Rosalina.

Just because she doesn't look like she's on steroids or isn't a bulky animal, doesn't mean she couldn't be a Power character.

You're thinking too extreme about it. That's like me saying "Toad shouldn't run faster than others in SMB2/SM3DW because Toad has no legs, he should have really long and thick looking legs if he's supposed to be a speedy character". Rosalina being a Power type makes more sense than at least that. Like I said, she's really large and heavy, and has noticeable muscle and tone on her body in this game, Mario Kart 8, and the Olympics games (because she's not wearing an extremely conservative gown like she normally does), and has some meat on her bones. There's enough there for her Power classing to be believable, a lot more than most female characters in video games and anime that are depicted as having insane physical strength.

At the end of the day, Rosalina's Power classing is there because they wanted to have a female Power character, and there aren't any other female Mario characters that fit that role unless you want to see more Pink Gold Peach.

The fact that is the protector of the universe and the powerful Lumas should justify her being a Power class character.

Well obviously she's OP in terms of magic and stuff since she's the Mario universe's god figure.

But since Rosalina physically hits the ball in Mario Tennis, and she's one of the few characters (and only female) that plays one handed all of the time, and still breaks real life world records with her shot strength, it's implying that even physically, she's super strong.

 

[Burruni]

The fact that is the protector of the universe and the powerful Lumas should justify her being a Power class character.

So she brings the same forearm power as a great ape that knocks out a professional boxer in about 3 hits () discount godzilla and a 308 pound man with the hand strength to have a grip of 80 psi, the approximate pressure that workshop/garage air tools work at.

 

[IsmaR]

I beg to differ

Referring to adult Link wearing the purple tunic, not Toon/cel shaded/"cat eyes" Link (who ironically doesn't get any Four Swords costumes, just his Outset outfit).

Either way, this actually predates Four Swords (and was supposedly based off his "White" palette in Smash 64):

 

[Burruni]

Referring to adult Link wearing the purple tunic, not Toon/cel shaded/"cat eyes" Link (who ironically doesn't get any Four Swords costumes, just his Outset outfit).

Either way, this:

Meant to just wanted to poke fun.
Kinda interesting that it /did/ get into SC before Smash

 

[ChikoLad]

So she brings the same forearm power as a great ape that knocks out a professional boxer in about 3 hits () discount godzilla and a 308 pound man with the hand strength to have a grip of 80 psi, the approximate pressure that workshop/garage air tools work at.

Comparing Rosalina to a real life woman of her size, Rosalina would logically actually be much heavier than Wario.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The fact that is the protector of the universe and the powerful Lumas should justify her being a Power class character.

The irony of that statement is that in Smash Bros., Rosalina doesn't hit as hard as Donkey Kong or Bowser.

Comparing Rosalina to a real life woman of her size, Rosalina would logically actually be much heavier than Wario.

It still makes you wonder about why the Pokemon tend to weigh a lot less than the real world animals. Groudon is among the heaviest Pokemon out there, and yet there are real world animals who are shorter than it, but weigh a lot more than 2100 lbs..

And then we have Mega Mewtwo X, where despite rivaling Rosalina's height, it weighs less than Wario.

 

[Pazzo.]

Wailord...

Called the "Largest of all Pokémon" at 47'07".... roughly size of a real-life Sperm Whale...

Weighs 877.4 lbs. That's around five times less than a small African Elephant.

 

[Champ Gold]

Using Nintendo canon for anything is stupid because things happen for gameplay reasons

Wonder why Rosalina is lightweight in Smash but a heavyweight in other Mario spinoffs? Because gameplay reasons

Why does Mewtwo weight as light as G&W and Spacies? Gameplay reasons

Things happen because gameplay reasons.

 

[Burruni]

Wailord...

View attachment 105479

Called the "Largest of all Pokémon" at 47'07".... roughly size of a real-life Sperm Whale...

Weighs 877.4 lbs. That's around five times less than a small African Elephant.

That's because it's a blimp.
How else do you expect it to float

 

[Pazzo.]

That's because it's a blimp.
How else do you expect it to float

(Blubber?)

Don't even get me started on the rest of the Pokedex entries, like Gardevoir.

 

[Burruni]

(Blubber?)

Don't even get me started on the rest of the Pokedex entries, like Gardevoir.

Kangaskhan breeding.

 

[ChikoLad]

The irony of that statement is that in Smash Bros., Rosalina doesn't hit as hard as Donkey Kong or Bowser.



It still makes you wonder about why the Pokemon tend to weigh a lot less than the real world animals. Groudon is among the heaviest Pokemon out there, and yet there are real world animals who are shorter than it, but weigh a lot more than 2100 lbs..

And then we have Mega Mewtwo X, where despite rivaling Rosalina's height, it weighs less than Wario.

Rosalina doesn't hit as hard as the heavies because all of the Smash babies would be whinging even harder than they already do for her to be nerfed, if she hit that hard. Her combined strength with Luma does match the heavy characters though, which is part of why she is so good.

Also I don't know why you are bringing up Pokémon when 1) Pokémon is ridiculous and non-sensical, and often inconsistent with it's weight values, and 2) Pokémon and animals obviously are constructed and work differently than humanoid characters.

If you look up real life women who are around Rosalina's height, many of them are at near 400 pounds in weight, and they are often fairly skinny and don't have a lot of muscle, and are still a bit shorter than Rosalina.

Keeping in mind that Rosalina is curvy and think, has more muscle than fat (noteable since 1cm cubed of human muscle is four times heavier than 1cm cubed of human fat), and has a huge head, she has to be well over 400 pounds.

Using Nintendo canon for anything is stupid because things happen for gameplay reasons

Wonder why Rosalina is lightweight in Smash but a heavyweight in other Mario spinoffs? Because gameplay reasons

Why does Mewtwo weight as light as G&W and Spacies? Gameplay reasons

Things happen because gameplay reasons.

Sakurai explained that Rosalina is light in Smash because she is making herself lighter with her gravity magic. She does have absolute control over gravitokinesis, after all.

However, under normal earth gravity, she would be at least 400 pounds. Keep in mind, she doesn't use her powers in Mario Kart. And is portrayed as being able to push a big, heavy ATV into a spin, WHILE doing a backflip after that.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Using Nintendo canon for anything is stupid because things happen for gameplay reasons

Wonder why Rosalina is lightweight in Smash but a heavyweight in other Mario spinoffs? Because gameplay reasons

Why does Mewtwo weight as light as G&W and Spacies? Gameplay reasons

Things happen because gameplay reasons.

And then we have Yoshi, where even though he's treated as a heavy fighter in Smash Bros., in the Mario spin-offs, he never goes higher than the middleweight category. The main reason for Yoshi's heavyweight portrayal in Smash Bros. is because of his eating habits, but he's only about as tall as Luigi, and he definitely isn't very bulky either.

 

[Substitution]

That's because it's a blimp.
How else do you expect it to float

Sorcery obviously.
All I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if occultist practices were involved.

 

[Deleted member]

Use the metric system, damnit, I can't understand your comparisons if they just look like random numbers

 

[Deleted member]

Using Nintendo canon for anything is stupid because things happen for gameplay reasons

Wonder why Rosalina is lightweight in Smash but a heavyweight in other Mario spinoffs? Because gameplay reasons

Why does Mewtwo weight as light as G&W and Spacies? Gameplay reasons

Things happen because gameplay reasons.

I definitely agree.

Though their weight in smash is easily explained , it's their powers at work, not their physical weight.

 

[Pazzo.]

Use the metric system, damnit, I can't understand your comparisons if they just look like random numbers

I reserve the right to be a stubborn American.

 

[ChikoLad]

The difference between Yoshi's varying weights between Mario Kart and Smash, and Rosalina's, is that Yoshi's isn't even given an explanation.

Rosalina's is officially explained, using a trait she's had since her debut game.

Obviously they made Rosalina lighter in Smash for gameplay reasons, but Sakurai went out of his way to explain it in a way that makes sense lore wise anyway. And even if he didn't, she'd still normally be a 400 pound giant, because her Mario game appearances mean more than Smash in terms of her character traits.

There is such a thing as gameplay-story/lore integration.

Though maybe a thread of Nintendo fans isn't the best place to explain that...