Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[PsychoIncarnate]

I never finished DKRTF

It feels off to me

 

[ChikoLad]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...tor-says-its-make-or-break-for-franchise.aspx

Well this is interesting. I wasn't aware the main series Final Fantasy games were in such a dire situation.

Also, within the Square Enix offices...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...tor-says-its-make-or-break-for-franchise.aspx

Well this is interesting. I wasn't aware the main series Final Fantasy games were in such a dire situation.

Also, within the Square Enix offices...

I'm not really going to get the new FF

They don't really feel like FF's anymore.

Bravely default and dragon quest have really been the ones I've been playing.

 

[ChikoLad]

I'm not really going to get the new FF

They don't really feel like FF's anymore.

Bravely default and dragon quest have really been the ones I've been playing.

It's funny that you say that because FFXV's director does comment on how this seems to be a common mindset in the FF fanbase in that video.

The quote was something like "everybody starts off with a particular FF game or two, usually FFVI, FFVII, or FFX. That game is what makes them a fan of the series, but because of that game they started with, they go into other games in the series expecting a really similar experience, and are disappointed when they find a future game isn't that".

The way I see it, FF was never a series that's supposed to make each game feel similar to the last numbered entry (that's what the spin-offs of particular numbered entries are for, like X-2 or the FFXIII trilogy). Each one is supposed to be almost equivalent to going into a new IP. Though Square Enix could probably do a better job of conveying that to the general public.

As for FFXV, I'm curious about it. It's gameplay seems a lot like Kingdom Hearts in some ways. Not sure how I feel about the setting though, and how the realism seems to translate into the combat.

 

[Champ Gold]

Like Swamp said, I think it's meant to be metaphoric. I'm actually interested in that anime because of that concept and because it's by studio Trigger (best known for Kill la Kill).

It's one of the anime of this season I'm looking forward... Thinking about it, this season I'm following 8 anime at once. I've never followed this amount of series at once before, so I guess I'm becoming a bigger fan as time goes?

I suppose it's only natural as my mind opens and I explore different genres and become more familiar with directors, studios, VAs and artists working on the medium as a whole.

Still a far cry from being an hardcore otaku to the point of spending loads of cash on merchandise and figures... I just enjoy the shows for what they are. Then again, I don't call myself a hardcore gamer either and generally don't spend on more than the games themselves. (I'm not very good at Smash either despite having played games in the series for over a decade.)

Haven't seen you around for a long time. How you been?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

It's funny that you say that because FFXV's director does comment on how this seems to be a common mindset in the FF fanbase in that video.

The quote was something like "everybody starts off with a particular FF game or two, usually FFVI, FFVII, or FFX. That game is what makes them a fan of the series, but because of that game they started with, they go into other games in the series expecting a really similar experience, and are disappointed when they find a future game isn't that".

The way I see it, FF was never a series that's supposed to make each game feel similar to the last numbered entry (that's what the spin-offs of particular numbered entries are for, like X-2 or the FFXIII trilogy). Each one is supposed to be almost equivalent to going into a new IP. Though Square Enix could probably do a better job of conveying that to the general public.

As for FFXV, I'm curious about it. It's gameplay seems a lot like Kingdom Hearts in some ways. Not sure how I feel about the setting though, and how the realism seems to translate into the combat.

I don't mind the different story and atmosphere from FF to FF

The problem is, if you make every game in the series have different gameplay, it's going to attract a different audience.

But a difference audience doesn't always happen because of brand name recognition. They recognize the name and associate it with a particular style of gameplay. It works like that both ways

Because it works that way, people that may have liked that style may not pick it up, and people that pick it up for it's name may be disappointed with it's style

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't mind the different story and atmosphere from FF to FF

The problem is, if you make every game in the series have different gameplay, it's going to attract a different audience.

But a difference audience doesn't always happen because of brand name recognition. They recognize the name and associate it with a particular style of gameplay. It works like that both ways

Because it works that way, people that may have liked that style may not pick it up, and people that pick it up for it's name may be disappointed with it's style

Yeah I was pretty much just pointing out how FFXV's director said basically the same thing.

I don't think the problem is changing the style of gameplay, partly because the old-school, turn based battle system of FF was never the ultimate vision for the franchise, but merely a compromise because they couldn't make a flashy, real-time combat system on older hardware. The FF franchise was always destined to become real-time in it's combat system.

I think the problem just lies in Square Enix not doing a good job of conveying the idea that "each FF game is a completely differen experience".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah I was pretty much just pointing out how FFXV's director said basically the same thing.

I don't think the problem is changing the style of gameplay, partly because the old-school, turn based battle system of FF was never the ultimate vision for the franchise, but merely a compromise because they couldn't make a flashy, real-time combat system on older hardware. The FF franchise was always destined to become real-time in it's combat system.

I think the problem just lies in Square Enix not doing a good job of conveying the idea that "each FF game is a completely differen experience".

IDK about that. Considering how much of the first game was based on Dungeons and Dragons

 

[Deleted member]

I guess you could say he's part of the "Skeptic" community on the youtubes.

There is a couple of them I like to watch from time to time

"Skeptic"?
I just find it funny someone goes by "The Amazing Atheist" though

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...tor-says-its-make-or-break-for-franchise.aspx

Well this is interesting. I wasn't aware the main series Final Fantasy games were in such a dire situation.

Also, within the Square Enix offices...

Gee, I wonder why
It's almost like having other games that play more like FF than the current FF is a bad thing

 

[ChikoLad]

IDK about that. Considering how much of the first game was based on Dungeons and Dragons

The best comparison I can make is that "2D games" never were and never will be considered the "peak" of what gaming would look like. Developers were always going to want to make the jump to 3D one the technology became developed enough, because it offers more possibilities for landscapes and exploration, as there are more directions to move in.

It's the same with turn-based VS real-time. Real-time is an evolution of turn-based in the RPG genre, since it A) means you actively perform flashy moves and combos as a player rather than just watch a cinematic, which is incredibly satisfying from a kinaesthetics standpoint, and B) this extra layer adds a new degree of strategy that is not possible in turn-based, in where the specific AoE and frame-data of each move is something you have to think about, alongside the usual MP cost, elemental effects, etc. Turn-based RPGs and Real-Time RPGs are not different genres. The former is the earlier incarnation of the genre, and the latter is the more modern incarnation of the genre. Much like the difference between a 2D platformer and a 3D platformer. Or a 2D overhead/isometric Adventure game and a 3D Adventure game.

Tetsuya Nomura has actively commented on the fact that, when FFVII was originally in development, they always wanted to make the game real-time, but they couldn't reasonably do it on the PS1 hardware. However, that's why the FFVII Remake is going to have a battle system with more real-time elements.

Gee, I wonder why
It's almost like having other games that play more like FF than the current FF is a bad thing

Except there has never been a defined definition for "what an FF game is" beyond "Chocobos and Moogles are in it" because the gameplay and setting changes every single time.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently Dragon Quest XI is coming to the 3DS and PS4

I'll probably pick up the 3DS version. Hopefully they don't decide to make it just a cheap port

Also hope it comes up here

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The best comparison I can make is that "2D games" never were and never will be considered the "peak" of what gaming would look like. Developers were always going to want to make the jump to 3D one the technology became developed enough, because it offers more possibilities for landscapes and exploration, as there are more directions to move in.

It's the same with turn-based VS real-time. Real-time is an evolution of turn-based in the RPG genre, since it A) means you actively perform flashy moves and combos as a player rather than just watch a cinematic, which is incredibly satisfying from a kinaesthetics standpoint, and B) this extra layer adds a new degree of strategy that is not possible in turn-based, in where the specific AoE and frame-data of each move is something you have to think about, alongside the usual MP cost, elemental effects, etc. Turn-based RPGs and Real-Time RPGs are not different genres. The former is the earlier incarnation of the genre, and the latter is the more modern incarnation of the genre. Much like the difference between a 2D platformer and a 3D platformer. Or a 2D overhead/isometric Adventure game and a 3D Adventure game.

Tetsuya Nomura has actively commented on the fact that, when FFVII was originally in development, they always wanted to make the game real-time, but they couldn't reasonably do it on the PS1 hardware. However, that's why the FFVII Remake is going to have a battle system with more real-time elements.



Except there has never been a defined definition for "what an FF game is" beyond "Chocobos and Moogles are in it" because the gameplay and setting changes every single time.

Other than gimmicks, the gameplay has only changed for the last 5

 

[A Distant Demon]

Except there has never been a defined definition for "what an FF game is" beyond "Chocobos and Moogles are in it" because the gameplay and setting changes every single time.

FF 1 and 2 confirmed not real Final Fantasy games

 

[Chandeelure]

The new Splatfest is Spongebob vs Patrick XD

Voting starts tomorrow for @SpongeBob Presents: Splatfest! Tell us who you prefer: SpongeBob or Patrick? #Splatoon pic.twitter.com/rR9pcHaZfR

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 14, 2016

 

[ChikoLad]

Other than gimmicks, the gameplay has only changed for the last 5

Nope.

FFIII had the job system.
FFIV introduced ATB.
FFVII went 3D and introduced a lot of new systems like Materia and Limits.
FFVIII had the draw system.
FFX used the CTB system.
FFXI was an MMO.
FFXII was real-time, having a somewhat similar system to FFXI but in a single-player setting. And had the Gambit System.
FFXIII fused aspects of turn-based with an action game, and had the Paradigm System and Stagger System.
FFXIV is an MMO too but is vastly different to FFXI.
And FFXV is going full-on Kingdom Hearts mode.

Those are just the more notable examples I can think of, and they all greatly change how you play the game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cecil-lion-killed-by-dentist-811566

"Ricky Gervais called the hunt "mental," and Palmer's Yelp account has been ransacked by users calling him everything from a "sociopath" to "American Psycho incarnate.""

No friggin' Lion killer is the "American Psycho Incarnate"

I'M the American Psycho Incarnate

Nope.

FFIII had the job system.
FFIV introduced ATB.
FFVII went 3D and introduced a lot of new systems like Materia and Limits.
FFVIII had the draw system.
FFX used the CTB system.
FFXI was an MMO.
FFXII was real-time, having a somewhat similar system to FFXI but in a single-player setting.
FFXIII fused aspects of turn-based with an action game, and had the Paradigm System and Stagger System.
FFXIV is an MMO too but is vastly different to FFXI.
And FFXV is going full-on Kingdom Hearts mode.

Those are just the more notable examples I can think of, and they all greatly change how you play the game.

That's why I said "Other than gimmicks"

Those are little more than gimmicks

Other than ATB, which I kind of weird more as an evolution to Turn based

Also, I said the last 5 were the only ones different. XI-XV are the last 5

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

MFW the next splatfest is Spongebob vs Patrick.

 

[Chandeelure]

Spoiler: Robobot Spoilers

Cool!

 

[ChikoLad]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cecil-lion-killed-by-dentist-811566

"Ricky Gervais called the hunt "mental," and Palmer's Yelp account has been ransacked by users calling him everything from a "sociopath" to "American Psycho incarnate.""

No friggin' Lion killer is the "American Psycho Incarnate"

I'M the American Psycho Incarnate



That's why I said "Other than gimmicks"

Those are little more than gimmicks

Other than ATB, which I kind of weird more as an evolution to Turn based

Also, I said the last 5 were the only ones different. XI-XV are the last 5

You must have a lenient definition on what a gimmick is then.

I wouldn't define things that completely change how the entire game works as "gimmicks".

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You must have a lenient definition on what a gimmick is then.

I wouldn't define things that completely change how the entire game works as "gimmicks".

Job system is little more than a gimmick.

Instead of having a large amount of characters to choose from, you get 4 and change their class.

Draw system and materia are gimmicks

 

[ChikoLad]

Job system is little more than a gimmick.

Instead of having a large amount of characters to choose from, you get 4 and change their class.

Draw system and materia are gimmicks

...And how so? Draw and materia sound like bigger fundamental changes.

 

[Pazzo.]

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featu...tor-says-its-make-or-break-for-franchise.aspx

Well this is interesting. I wasn't aware the main series Final Fantasy games were in such a dire situation.

Also, within the Square Enix offices...

(Mother 4 Confirmed)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

...And how so? Draw and materia sound like bigger fundamental changes.

They changed very minor things.

You didn't even have to draw once in order to beat the game

Drawing was stupid anyway. It encouraged the player to NEVER use magic.

Materia is similar. It's just a gimmicky way to have an explanation for magic and power ups in universe

It gives you magic, summons, abilities through equipping them? You could do that in other FF's without the gimmick

 

[ChikoLad]

They changed very minor things.

You didn't even have to draw once in order to beat the game

Drawing was stupid anyway. It encouraged the player to NEVER use magic.

Materia is similar. It's just a gimmicky way to have an explanation for magic and power ups in universe

But drawing made beating the game that much more feasible, silly as it was. It was an essential tactic and was a core aspect of the battle system, making you think differently (like what you yourself said - it encouraged you to not use magic as much).

Materia isn't a gimmick at all, it's literally the foundation of your abilities in FFVII. It's like a form of alchemy, you mix different materia to get new abilities and use it to also get stat boosts, and as a form of weapon customisation as you can also slot them into weapons. As opposed to previous FF games where every ability is bought or learned and nothing else, and weapons are simply bought, found, or crafted, and stuck with whatever stats they have when you obtain them. Materia also means your stats can be more dynamic and not just stuck with what the level up system gives you.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Looking at today's WSJ TOC, both Gintama and Nisekoi are in a dire position. At least the former is already confirmed to be in the final arc while the latter had been doing subpar for weeks.

Totally called a mink stowaway in the new One Piece though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

But drawing made beating the game that much more feasible, silly as it was. It was an essential tactic and was a core aspect of the battle system, making you think differently (like what you yourself said - it encouraged you to not use magic as much).

Materia isn't a gimmick at all, it's literally the foundation of your abilities in FFVII. It's like a form of alchemy, you mix different materia to get new abilities and use it to also get stat boosts, and as a form of weapon customisation as you can also slot them into weapons. As opposed to previous FF games where every ability is bought or learned and nothing else, and weapons are simply bought, found, or crafted, and stuck with whatever stats they have when you obtain them. Materia also means your stats can be more dynamic and not just stuck with what the level up system gives you.

That's literally what a gimmick means

A flashy, quirky feature to make the game look different

But essentially doing the same thing

 

[A Distant Demon]

You didn't even have to draw once in order to beat the game

Now that is just a poor argument. Just because something is (technically) optional doesn't mean it's a big change.


I mean. . .I don't think it's a big deal by any means, it's just another version of magic but that argument is poor.

Personal opinion on the discussion, until FF7 every game was pretty much natural evolution of the gameplay.

Games like Bravely Deafult are definitely more similar to that "classic" FF and it the game is clearly designed around that based on the story

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Now that is just a poor argument. Just because something is (technically) optional doesn't mean it's a big change.


I mean. . .I don't think it's a big deal by any means, it's just another version of magic but that argument is poor.

Personal opinion on the discussion, until FF7 every game was pretty much natural evolution of the gameplay.

Games like Bravely Deafult are definitely more similar to that "classic" FF and it the game is clearly designed around that based on the story

Considering his other examples of big changes are making the game a MMO, and turning it into a Kingdom Hearts clone

Something optional that's essentially just a special way of stat increase and magic seems like a small change

Or just a gimmick. It's basically just using magic to replace armor. And for some reason discouraging the use of magic

 

[Deleted member]

The new Splatfest is Spongebob vs Patrick XD

Voting starts tomorrow for @SpongeBob Presents: Splatfest! Tell us who you prefer: SpongeBob or Patrick? #Splatoon pic.twitter.com/rR9pcHaZfR

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 14, 2016

*falls from his chair*

First Transformers, then Nisekoi's costumes in Mario Maker, and now this.

Just imagine how these partnerships could occur in the next Smash generation...

 

[Baskerville]

The new Splatfest is Spongebob vs Patrick XD

Voting starts tomorrow for @SpongeBob Presents: Splatfest! Tell us who you prefer: SpongeBob or Patrick? #Splatoon pic.twitter.com/rR9pcHaZfR

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) April 14, 2016

Also confirmed for Europe

Spongebob or Patrick? The next Splatfest on 23/04 will decide once and for all! #Splatoon #WiiU

(Not a drill) pic.twitter.com/sSt2ay8viI

— Nintendo UK (@NintendoUK) April 14, 2016

 

[A Distant Demon]

Considering his other examples of big changes are making the game a MMO, and turning it into a Kingdom Hearts clone

Something optional that's essentially just a special way of stat increase and magic seems like a small change

Or just a gimmick. It's basically just using magic to replace armor. And for some reason discouraging the use of magic

"you never need to shield to win a game in smash"


"You never need to catch any pokemon but the starter to beat the game"

"You didn't even have to draw once in order to beat the game"


Just because something is "optional" doesn't mean it isn't a big deal, which was the only part of your argument I disagree with.

Unnecessary semantics? Probably.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's literally what a gimmick means

A flashy, quirky feature to make the game look different

But essentially doing the same thing

But it's not doing the same thing.

Previous FF games had a rigid character progression system. You were stuck with what you were given by the game. Each character had a defined role. The job system in FFIII alleviated this slightly, but not truely, since changing jobs was essentially equivalent to changing character mid-battle (something later FF games let you do literally, like FFX).

FFVII (and some other FF games after it) has a dynamic progression system. While characters still have base stats, and still have that basic leveling system, the player is given much more freedom to shape each character and weapon into what they want specifically. There may be optimal ways to equip characters but because you have that freedom, the optimal way to equip a character may not be as defined or even all-encompassing.

That adds a whole new layer to the RPG mechanics that you didn't have before and the player just has more freedom.

Saying it's a gimmick is like saying Sonic is just Mario with an extra gimmick, because Mario is a rigid platformer while Sonic is a dynamic one (in most cases, though there are exceptions). In actuality, playing something that's dynamic is legitimately a big change compared to playing something that's rigid.

 

[Frostwraith]

Haven't seen you around for a long time. How you been?

I have been mostly fine. Not being too active here over the past few weeks due to college stuff and other such IRL things.

I'm not going back to regular activity in a while, but I figured I didn't want to be completely gone either, so I'll be coming here more sporadically and often just lurking.

Things didn't seem to have changed much around here, which I guess is not a bad thing.

So, I'll be seeing you all from time to time, whenever I feel like it and have some spare time to spend. Smash speculation is dead at last, so the big reason I came here no longer applies, so my interest on this site has diminished somewhat.

 

[ChikoLad]

Some new My Nintendo Platinum rewards went up. Three new exclusive costumes for Miitomo, to be specific.

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/04/14/new-my-nintendo-rewards-are-live/

 

[Opossum]

Viacom and Nintendo probably made the partnership after seeing all the Spongebob posts on Splatoon's Miiverse and social media sites.

 

[Substitution]

Hmm... Which side should I pick?
Should I pick Spongebob: A once plucky character turned unlikable whiny sociopath.
Or should I pick Patrick: A once plucky character turned unlikable whiny sociopath.


The variety is astounding.

 

[Pazzo.]

Hmm... Which side should I pick?
Should I pick Spongebob: A once plucky character turned unlikable social sociopath.
Or should I pick Patrick: A once plucky character turned unlikable whiny sociopath.


The variety is astounding.

"Social Sociopath" seems a bit redundant.

I'll probably go with Team Patrick for... Marie-related reasons.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Some new My Nintendo Platinum rewards went up. Three new exclusive costumes for Miitomo, to be specific.

https://mynintendonews.com/2016/04/14/new-my-nintendo-rewards-are-live/

Just waiting for a Yoshi suit.

Or a R.O.B. hood. Gimme that.

 

[ChikoLad]

Seeing this Splatfest reminded me to have another look at r/spongebros.

There's always something good there.

 

[Ura]

It's funny that you say that because FFXV's director does comment on how this seems to be a common mindset in the FF fanbase in that video.

The quote was something like "everybody starts off with a particular FF game or two, usually FFVI, FFVII, or FFX. That game is what makes them a fan of the series, but because of that game they started with, they go into other games in the series expecting a really similar experience, and are disappointed when they find a future game isn't that".

The way I see it, FF was never a series that's supposed to make each game feel similar to the last numbered entry (that's what the spin-offs of particular numbered entries are for, like X-2 or the FFXIII trilogy). Each one is supposed to be almost equivalent to going into a new IP. Though Square Enix could probably do a better job of conveying that to the general public.

As for FFXV, I'm curious about it. It's gameplay seems a lot like Kingdom Hearts in some ways. Not sure how I feel about the setting though, and how the realism seems to translate into the combat.

My first game was FFX which is still my favorite to this day (not necessarily the best but my personal favorite) and I still really liked 6, 7, 8, and 9. I'm just not really in to FF's post 12 (basically 13 & 14 and all their spinoffs). I'm going to give 15 a chance to see if it changes my perspective on this and draws me back to the series.

To be fair though their were a couple of games that I wasn't all that in to like FFX-2 which I felt was an unnecessary sequel to an amazing game. FFX had this really bittersweet ending that was so well done and X-2 ruined it by making some Hollywood-esque BS ending of Tidus coming back to Spira to get together with Yuna so everyone can be happy; totally ruining the emotional value of FFX's ending. Every time I replay FFX the ending doesn't get to me as much as it did before because of what happens in the sequel.

Sorry for the rant but I needed to rant on X-2 for a bit lol. Did anyone else mark out when they mentioned Blitzball at the FF15 Uncovered event? I almost thought they were bringing Blitzball back to FF15 so I was promptly disappointed when that wasn't the case. I feel that Blitzball as a standalone game could have done big business for SE like their doing with that spinoff game IMO.

Viacom and Nintendo probably made the partnership after seeing all the Spongebob posts on Splatoon's Miiverse and social media sites.

Spongebob in Smash wen?