Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Champ Gold]

I shall consume.

REMOVE SWAMP

 

[Substitution]

Ah, the joyous wonders of minimalism.
Bleak and all consuming, but straight to the point and direct. It's that wonderful myriad of emotions that goes well as a side for this thread.

 

[Zzuxon]

EXCUSE ME EVERYONE. I HAVE AN ANNOUNCEMENT TO MAKE.

Spoiler

Swamp

 

[Coricus]

Yeah but Awakening did that as well as not made it TOO easy for it.


Why do I feel this way, blame Pokemon. It's a easy as hell game series overall which became even easier to the point where it insulted my intelligence. All of that just to appease that audience of Ho care more about IVs, EVs and raising Pokemon for the competitive aspect which made it look like a below average RPG.

You can say I'm wrong for thinking that way but don't try to play bull**** mental gymnastics just to defend how even worst the causualization hit Pokemon to where the term post-game is none existent

Pokemon is partially as big of a problem as it is because it outright excludes the possibility of playing on a higher skill level. Locking Hard Mode to the postgame of one version of one game and then pulling it by the the next game to boot? Lacking the opportunity to have rematches with the tougher trainers in many games? The aforementioned lack of postgame content? Yes, those are all issues.

But it's not that it's giving the option to be easy. It's that it's REFUSING to give the option to be hard. There's a difference there.

Fire Emblem still lets you go all Lunatic+ Classic to your heart's content. There's options that let you snooze through the game, but there's also options that make it a legitimate challenge. Pokemon is like "Want to have the option to feel like you're even playing the game? LOL TOO BAD."

If you're worried that FE is going to start stripping away the harder difficulty levels, then you should voice your concerns about that rather than simply criticizing the fact that there is an easier difficulty level at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

tbh Hard mode should become a staple in modern pokemon games, Masuda said he wants to appeal to people who grew up playing the games, right? Then no reason not to give the modern gamer challenge

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Yeah but Awakening did that as well as not made it TOO easy for it.


Why do I feel this way, blame Pokemon. It's a easy as hell game series overall which became even easier to the point where it insulted my intelligence. All of that just to appease that audience of Ho care more about IVs, EVs and raising Pokemon for the competitive aspect which made it look like a below average RPG.

You can say I'm wrong for thinking that way but don't try to play bull**** mental gymnastics just to defend how even worst the causualization hit Pokemon to where the term post-game is none existent

When you breed a perfect IV shiny volcarona it's worth all that breeding.

 

[Radical Bones]

The Swamp will swallow us all.

At the end, the is only Swamp.

Praise Swamp.

 

[Kurri ★]

Yeah but Awakening did that as well as not made it TOO easy for it.


Why do I feel this way, blame Pokemon. It's a easy as hell game series overall which became even easier to the point where it insulted my intelligence. All of that just to appease that audience of Ho care more about IVs, EVs and raising Pokemon for the competitive aspect which made it look like a below average RPG.

You can say I'm wrong for thinking that way but don't try to play bull**** mental gymnastics just to defend how even worst the causualization hit Pokemon to where the term post-game is none existent

Pokemon is fun, but I don't think it was ever meant to provide a challenge, at least not the way other RPGs do.

 

[powerprotoman]

......i think theres only one thing that can be done now

so much to do so much to see

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pokemon is fun, but I don't think it was ever meant to provide a challenge, at least not the way other RPGs do.

Wasn't Emerald hard as nails?

 

[Champ Gold]

Wasn't Emerald hard as nails?

Emerald can really really be tough due to the certain additions given to gym leaders and bosses.

Eliza and Tate were pretty fair in RS but in Emerald, they were balls to the wall harder than before.

And Emerald Drake didn't **** around.


Also HGSS can kick your teeth in if you're not prepared

 

[SuperMii3D]

This sums up how I feel about Phoenix mode:

"A Vegan walks into a burger joint; chaos ensues"

Also, hows Bowser in Sm4sh? Im killing the competition with him

 

[Aetheri]

Hoenn in general was notorious for it's difficulty spike upon entering Hoenn's waters...

Tate and Liza were one of the harder gym leaders at first they were harder in emerlad since they had two extra pokemon for you to deal with...and in Emerald Juan was actually also pretty difficult to deal with due to his Kingdra...plus grinding for the Elite four was a pain...

 

[powerprotoman]

my favorite part about this is that the only pokemon game thats remotely hard is black and white 1 specifically because of the hydregion(who was still no real issue....thanks water starter for always looking out for me with ice beam)

 

[Aetheri]

my favorite part about this is that the only pokemon game thats remotely hard is black and white 1 specifically because of the hydregion(who was still no real issue....thanks water starter for always looking out for me with ice beam)

It was hard if you were unaware of Audino grinding

I wasn't aware of it before my first playthrough but it didn't take long for me to discover how Audino grinding made things so much easier...

 

[Kurri ★]

Wasn't Emerald hard as nails?

Was it? I don't recall it being too difficult. I had the most trouble with Fire Red/Leaf Green personally. They're honestly the only Pokemon games I've played that I haven't finished. Of course that was... 9 year old me, I think.

If you ask me, Pokemon was never meant to pose a huge challenge. It's biggest is catching, collecting and trading Pokemon.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

 

[Champ Gold]

Hoenn in general was notorious for it's difficulty spike upon entering Hoenn's waters...

Tate and Liza were one of the harder gym leaders at first they were harder in emerlad since they had two extra pokemon for you to deal with...and in Emerald Juan was actually also pretty difficult to deal with due to his Kingdra...plus grinding for the Elite four was a pain...

GSC had one at the 7-8th gym where the 7th Gym was easy but the 8th Gym destroyed you because you didn't have anything to counter Kingdra which in Emerald, you did because you could easily get Flygon and Altiair which learned Dragon moves once they evolve.

GSC never gave you a dragon type to fight back with due to limited options and your only hope was Gyarados but he doesn't learn Dragon moves on its own until later gens

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

Remember when Nintendo said they could afford annual losses for another 50 years back in 2013-14? They made profits since

 

[Coricus]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

Well can you link it?

I'd like to at least see what might show signs of Nintendo finally being doomed rather than just hearing about it since 1889.

 

[Kurri ★]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

Ninty is fine

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Well can you link it?

I'd like to at least see what might show signs of Nintendo finally being doomed rather than just hearing about it since 1889.

The wii U to NX reminded me of how Sega switched to from the Saturn to Dreamcast quickly

The 3rd party developers abandoning Sega after the failures of the saturn and dreamcast "upgrades" including some developers that aren't too keen with Nintendo right now. Sega was depending on JUST their 1st party titles more or less.

 

[Champ Gold]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

That's...not a good comparison.

NOA and NOJ can easily work together and can benefit from one or another. Remember Smash 3DS released in Japan first due to Japan having a bigger focus on handhelds and released Smash Wii U in the West first for those Holiday sales and west was more for the consoles than the handhelds. Also most of those similarities are due to those issues with the censorship complaints

Sega of Japan & Sega of America actively tried to one up each other and equally sabotaged each other due to petty jealousy and issues. Sega of America did more help for the Genesis than Japan did and it was insulting to them but went the total opposite the next generation when SoJ did more to help the struggling Saturn than SoA which Bernie Stolar actively crapped all over people who bought a Saturn TWO YEARS LATER.

Sega's infighting killed the company and no other corporation ever had something like that.

Read up on the Sonic X-Treme development, that thing was a prime example of how much SoJ and SoA were at odds with each other

 

[powerprotoman]

ya nintendo is fine reggie hasnt cancelled a new f-zero because he had never heard of f-zero
(this is something the head of sega of america did to streets of rage 4....yes really)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I decided to look for an image I saw a while ago about Nintendo being doomed all the time to the point Pachter wrote down so many dates they died that Iwata offered a new tombstone. Then I found this
Alison Rapp stuff, some slight NSFW implications from Rapp's tweets

Spoiler

Dear god, Sonic's face in the second to last panel

 

[Coricus]

The wii U to NX reminded me of how Sega switched to from the Saturn to Dreamcast quickly

The 3rd party developers abandoning Sega after the failures of the saturn and dreamcast "upgrades" including some developers that aren't too keen with Nintendo right now. Sega was depending on JUST their 1st party titles more or less.

I think the difference here is that Nintendo has more than one First Party IP that actually SELLS.

And Nintendo didn't skip a gen with traditionally playable titles with their flagship, even if they skipped the 3D gameplay variant. SEGA took the one IP that actually did anything and. . .had issues doing anything for a while.

Just compare the number of Nintendo series here to the number of SEGA series:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_game_franchises

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'd do photoshoots too for cash if people actually wanted to pay to see my body, honestly

Edit: Get a second part time job - with staples and slave away for $10

or sexy photoshoot.

My clothes are already off

 

[SuperMii3D]

I'd do photoshoots too for cash if people actually wanted to pay to see my body, honestly

Edit: Get a second part time job - with staples and slave away for $10

or sexy photoshoot.

My clothes are already off

Its safe to say that most of us are naked underneath our clothes.

 

[Coricus]

That's...not a good comparison.

NOA and NOJ can easily work together and can benefit from one or another. Remember Smash 3DS released in Japan first due to Japan having a bigger focus on handhelds and released Smash Wii U in the West first for those Holiday sales and west was more for the consoles than the handhelds. Also most of those similarities are due to those issues with the censorship complaints

Sega of Japan & Sega of America actively tried to one up each other and equally sabotaged each other due to petty jealousy and issues. Sega of America did more help for the Genesis than Japan did and it was insulting to them but went the total opposite the next generation when SoJ did more to help the struggling Saturn than SoA which Bernie Stolar actively crapped all over people who bought a Saturn TWO YEARS LATER.

Sega's infighting killed the company and no other corporation ever had something like that.

Read up on the Sonic X-Treme development, that thing was a prime example of how much SoJ and SoA were at odds with each other

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_X-treme#Development

In case anyone is interested.

Yeah, things for X-Treme were kinda-

I mean the NiGHTs part I remembered, actually, but that's just one part of this huge mess.

 

[N3ON]

I was watching a video on the end of Sega's hardware division

And a lot of it kind of reminds me of what's going on with Nintendo RIGHT NOW

Yup.

I don't know if they're in as much of a perilous situation as Sega, but there are certainly a good deal of parallels. If Nintendo can't pull it off with the NX they'll be in pretty dire straits when it comes to their future in hardware.

Remember when Nintendo said they could afford annual losses for another 50 years back in 2013-14? They made profits since

If they continually lose market share on their consoles that return is gonna deplete the war chest pretty quick. Not completely, but enough to suggest sustaining endeavours in the hardware market provides the company with unfavourable ROIs, especially since even with profits their margins have been razor thin compared to the past. In fact most of their return to profit was due to fluctuations in the Japanese economy, not Nintendo's direct effort themselves.

Moreover, those claims of 50 years of losses don't exactly paint a full picture. Firstly because at this point it's 36 years, not 50. Second, because that number only accounts for Nintendo losing roughly $250 million a year. In 2013 and 2014, Nintendo lost nearly double that both years (the article in question is from 2012). And factoring in R&D costs (which would become more frequent the more often Nintendo puts out a system that fails to gain traction), depreciating brand awareness and user base, plus the recent trend of selling their hardware on a loss, if Nintendo can't reclaim their footing with the NX, we could see losses similar if not worse than that for many a year to come, which would certainly expedite those three dozen years. Their Scrooge McDuck pool of money won't last forever considering their operating costs dwarf their profit margins to a troubling degree.

They're not going to be Nintendoomed because the value of their IPs is immense, which they can leverage elsewhere, but if the NX can't reclaim some of the contested market space they've gradually been losing (barring the exception that was the Wii) they may need to rethink their business model. It won't be a case of hardware running them into the ground, it'll be a case of hardware no longer proving to be a viable investment.

That's...not a good comparison.

NOA and NOJ can easily work together and can benefit from one or another. Remember Smash 3DS released in Japan first due to Japan having a bigger focus on handhelds and released Smash Wii U in the West first for those Holiday sales and west was more for the consoles than the handhelds. Also most of those similarities are due to those issues with the censorship complaints

That's a drop in the pond compared to how often NOJ mis-reads the western market or makes some questionable business decision for the west.

You're right in that the two can work together and benefit from each other. But as it stands now, it's very much a one-way street. Japan obviously comes first to Nintendo, and their business decisions reflect that. Either that or they simply have a fundamental incomprehension of how the west works, which would indicate they're really not utilizing NoA for all they're worth. It's probably a mix of both. And perhaps that's not as detrimental as outright infighting, but it's certainly not great. Hopefully Kimishima's experience in the west can help re-align things internationally for them.

 

[SuperMii3D]

http://mynintendonews.com/2016/04/0...e-and-eight-new-weapons-are-coming-next-week/

Ladies and Gentlemen. We have new Splatoon weapons incoming next week. Cant wait for my Gamepad to come in....

 

[Arcanir]

This is probably one of the most interesting and worthwhile, and actually relevant theory videos I have ever seen on a game.

There are a few things I want to say on this video.

1) Not all changes made in the localization were censorship changes, some were, there's no denying that, but changes like Hisame gaining a pickle fetish or Effie becoming more of a jockette (both of which were exclusive to Skinship lines at that, their supports are otherwise unaltered) were not done to protect the children or general audience. You can definitely argue the necessity of those changes, but don't equate them with censorship.

2) The way he goes about talking about character and line changes, you'd think that they are a new thing with Fates (and I assume Awakening), but it's really not. Even in Blazing Sword, we had character changes such as Eliwood, who went from a more typical Japanese hero to a more typical western hero (ex. Japanese Eliwood was more insecure about himself), and there are other examples like that across the series such as Kyza going from a gay stereotype to being a typical loyal soldier and Ewan losing his upskirt peek at Amelia's expense. They've existed for a long time with the series, we're just now noticing it since a) the series is more popular and thus gets more attention, and b) the advancements with the internet has allowed for easier access to the Japanese version and translations of it.

3) As mentioned before, Pokémon is not a good example, at least in terms of the games. Pokémon still delves into more mature material, and we've had things like conflicting viewpoints, war, death, murder, a corrupt and abusive company, and so on that have popped up in recent games. Maturity is not something Pokémon has lacked in recent years, if anything, it's tried to appeal more to that aspect with its games then move away from it. So if Fire Emblem is going to be more like Pokémon, then we're still going to be getting mature themes in our games, not losing them.

4) Opossum pretty much said everything I would've about Phoenix Mode, so I won't delve too much into that one. I will say that his worry about the series moving away from mature themes is a bit unfounded since Fates at least tries to be more mature and aim for a more in-depth story. You can argue how well it was handled, but I don't think in their desire to pander that they'll lose that focus and create more mainstream and less mature stories. I will also agree with Opossum that the severity of the precedent that he's talking about seems largely unfounded at this point and honestly comes off as a slippery slope fallacy.

5) Off of that same point, I will agree with his point on the Deeprealms as it's clearly added for pandering to those that like Awakening, and I will concede that it may set a bad precedent as it could indicate that they'll pander if they feel it'll get them better sales. However, I will also add that the Deeprealms wasn't well received in general and the pandering that it was has largely been criticized. Additionally, IS has taken criticisms from the fanbase and use them to improve their games, which is why things like Conquest's difficulty and the attempt at a better story were made, so I don't think IS will be deaf to the complaints about it and do more pandering instead.

Overall, I can't say I don't understand his concerns, but some of them seem very extreme in their assessment. There are a number of jumps that he makes for his argument and it comes off as too reaching to me.

 

[TryrushDeppy]

The wii U to NX reminded me of how Sega switched to from the Saturn to Dreamcast quickly

The 3rd party developers abandoning Sega after the failures of the saturn and dreamcast "upgrades" including some developers that aren't too keen with Nintendo right now. Sega was depending on JUST their 1st party titles more or less.

Sega strongly supported the Saturn right up until almost the very end in Japan, as did their second party studios and several noteworthy third parties. 1998 saw the releases of Panzer Dragoon Saga, Dragon Force II, Burning Rangers, Baroque, Radiant Silvergun, Wachenroder, the Utena visual novel, Deep Fear, and Shining Force III Scenarios 2 & 3 - all AAA games by Saturn standards (Grandia and Princess Crown also released as Saturn exclusives in the final weeks of 1997). Japan also got their first and only standalone release of Sonic 3D Blast on Saturn the following year, after the Dreamcast's launch; no idea why it took so long. The last Saturn release wasn't until 2000 with Capcom's Final Fight Revenge, though the actual quality of said game is another story.

The Dreamcast had a huge number of third parties on board, though most of them weren't major publishers - but not shovelware houses either. It can truly be said to have been the final console that was defined by its niche releases. Capcom really went all out on the DC though, porting a ton of their arcade games along with an (initially) exclusive Resident Evil adventure.

Comparing early 2000s Sega to current Nintendo is total bunk. Two completely different sets of circumstances and outcomes. Sega went third party because of crippling mismanaged debt that had been building up behind the scenes for years, which wasn't directly related to console sales. Nintendo has no significant debt, and is still sitting on a pile of cash from their OG Wii & DS war chest. The Dreamcast was still due to get plenty of continued support when Sega's console division had the rug unexpectedly pulled out from under them. Thankfully, most of these games ended up being released on other companies' systems. Some, like Shenmue II, Space Channel 5 Part 2 and Rez, still made it to the DC anyway in Europe and/or Japan.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Apparently Figuarts Bowser is coming out this month

It's the one I've been waiting for

Although they kind of cheaped out on him

He's super small and has less points of articulation

 

[Deleted member]

Welcome to the official Swamp everyone
No, this is not the official thread we're in, we're actually inside the real Swamp
Enjoy your stay

On the topic of Phoenix Mode:
I find it funny people are complaining about the difficulty being dumbed down when it was added in what is probably the hardest FE game to date
And when I mean hard, I mean fair but hard, we don't talk aboit Thracia

On the topic of Pokemon difficulty: no Pokemon game is hard, I could breeze throhgh them without too much trouble
I just can't because I Nuzlocke them

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

The Nintenzone has become one with the Swamp.

 

[CrimsonVallier]

We are legian Swamp for we are many...

 

[FalKoopa]

Wasn't Emerald hard as nails?

I never really felt like that. It was harder than Ruby/Sapphire though. It never took me more than three tries to get past any gym though.

Pokémon's difficulty is rather dynamic, unlike other games. You can grind, you can stock up on items, and your team also decides how hard a gym is going to be.

 

[powerprotoman]

pokemons a game that's as hard as you make it...in other words if you feel
a games too easy or too hard its your own fault

 

[Champ Gold]

Yup.

I don't know if they're in as much of a perilous situation as Sega, but there are certainly a good deal of parallels. If Nintendo can't pull it off with the NX they'll be in pretty dire straits when it comes to their future in hardware.


If they continually lose market share on their consoles that return is gonna deplete the war chest pretty quick. Not completely, but enough to suggest sustaining endeavours in the hardware market provides the company with unfavourable ROIs, especially since even with profits their margins have been razor thin compared to the past. In fact most of their return to profit was due to fluctuations in the Japanese economy, not Nintendo's direct effort themselves.

Moreover, those claims of 50 years of losses don't exactly paint a full picture. Firstly because at this point it's 36 years, not 50. Second, because that number only accounts for Nintendo losing roughly $250 million a year. In 2013 and 2014, Nintendo lost nearly double that both years (the article in question is from 2012). And factoring in R&D costs (which would become more frequent the more often Nintendo puts out a system that fails to gain traction), depreciating brand awareness and user base, plus the recent trend of selling their hardware on a loss, if Nintendo can't reclaim their footing with the NX, we could see losses similar if not worse than that for many a year to come, which would certainly expedite those three dozen years. Their Scrooge McDuck pool of money won't last forever considering their operating costs dwarf their profit margins to a troubling degree.

They're not going to be Nintendoomed because the value of their IPs is immense, which they can leverage elsewhere, but if the NX can't reclaim some of the contested market space they've gradually been losing (barring the exception that was the Wii) they may need to rethink their business model. It won't be a case of hardware running them into the ground, it'll be a case of hardware no longer proving to be a viable investment.


That's a drop in the pond compared to how often NOJ mis-reads the western market or makes some questionable business decision for the west.

You're right in that the two can work together and benefit from each other. But as it stands now, it's very much a one-way street. Japan obviously comes first to Nintendo, and their business decisions reflect that. Either that or they simply have a fundamental incomprehension of how the west works, which would indicate they're really not utilizing NoA for all they're worth. It's probably a mix of both. And perhaps that's not as detrimental as outright infighting, but it's certainly not great. Hopefully Kimishima's experience in the west can help re-align things internationally for them.

My comparison is a tiny bit different due to that NoJ might not understand the west but is willing to help and do various things for their brand outside of Japan.


SoJ and SoA were sort of worst because they actively sabotage each other. That's worst, Dreamcast was failure due to SoA's mistakes with the Saturn and trying to put the Genesis on life support with the 32X instead of just letting it ride off into the sunset.

SoJ never gave any significant help AT all to the other regions from various games we never got on the Saturn and just how bitter they were that America marketed Sonic as a franchise better than they did especially selling the Genesis at a lower price + bundling Sonic with it.