Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Burruni]

But how many characters can you honestly say that for? Your talking about characters who casual fans can recognize right? I don't think any casual fan knew about like half the Sm4sH newcomers in the game.

Yes.
And?
I was just saying that most of the characters you listed are not All-Stars. Excluding those in your list that I didn't mention, I wasn't saying any other characters WERE All-Stars.
There's a reason that the entire selling point listed of "Nintendo's All-Stars" was something only present in the work for 64.

 

[Coricus]

I like how nobody has brought up Meowth yet despite his extreme iconicness. He's certainly an All-Star.

Meowth is that one character that everybody knows is iconic but has been passed up enough times already that no one really expects it.

Also I think some Smash fans don't like Pokemon all that much and a lot of the ones that do hate the anime where pretty much all of Meowth's iconicism comes from, so that can't be helping his demand at all.

 

[ChikoLad]

Yeah, it was just a quick comparison, most people who are not Nintendo or videogame fans think Rosalina is just Peach or a Barbie, not Elsa.
And the Villager's and Mii's designs are so generic that I really doubt they are more recognizable than Duck Hunt.

I also know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who think comparing Rosalina to Peach is stupid.

In fact, I know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who just like Rosalina, mainly because she's pretty out there for a Nintendo character, especially a Mario one. That, or they just think she's sexy and cool.

As for Villager, once again, Animal Crossing is super popular to non-Nintendo fans, of course they know who they are.

And like I keep saying, everyone and their grandma literally had a Wii, which is where the Miis originated. And they have been carried over to the Wii U and 3DS. And now Miitomo, which has already well surpassed 1 million downloads within it's first few days.

You can doubt and hate on characters all you want but your hate is blind and your claims unsubstantiated.

 

[Tom13]

Rasouli has what appears to be Pokemon Moon on his 3DS on his livestream, I doubt it's real.:

https://www.twitch.tv/rasouliplays

Edit: He's on Alpha Sapphire right now.

 

[Ura]

What metric is it exactly that you use to gauge what an "All-Star" is? Series? Sales? Popularity? History? This terms seems vague as all hell.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What metric is it exactly that you use to gauge what an "All-Star" is? Series? Sales? Popularity? History? This terms seems vague as all hell.

Basically if someone who doesn't describe themselves as a Nintendo fan can ID them. That's my metric at least.

 

[Substitution]

What metric is it exactly that you use to gauge what an "All-Star" is? Series? Sales? Popularity? History? This terms seems vague as all hell.

There's a few factors: Popularity, being iconic, sales, whether or not I really like that character and thus they are an all-star as confirmed by my own biases, etc.

 

[Chandeelure]

I also know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who think comparing Rosalina to Peach is stupid.

In fact, I know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who just like Rosalina, mainly because she's pretty out there for a Nintendo character, especially a Mario one. That, or they just think she's sexy and cool.

As for Villager, once again, Animal Crossing is super popular to non-Nintendo fans, of course they know who they are.

And like I keep saying, everyone and their grandma literally had a Wii, which is where the Miis originated. And they have been carried over to the Wii U and 3DS. And now Miitomo, which has already well surpassed 1 million downloads within it's first few days.

You can doubt and hate on characters all you want but your hate is blind and your claims unsubstantiated.

So, saying something "negative" about a character means I hate it.
K.

 

[Curious Villager]

What metric is it exactly that you use to gauge what an "All-Star" is? Series? Sales? Popularity? History? This terms seems vague as all hell.

I'm not even sure what the term "All-Star" really means as it seems to mean different things to different people to the point even they can't seem to agree on who exactly is an "All-Star" and who isn't.

I think Sakurai himself doesn't really follow the whole "All-Star" rule that religiously, even from the very beginning. I doubt many people where that familiar with Ness who's game didn't even come out in one region and did really poorly in another prior to Smash 64 for example....

And in future instalments we only got more characters who's "All-Star" status may have been.... debatable at best prior to their inclusions.....

 

[Ura]

Basically if someone who doesn't describe themselves as a Nintendo fan can ID them. That's my metric at least.

Theoretically speaking then about half of 64's roster wouldn't be all-stars right?

 

[Aetheri]

I don't think smash has really been, as 'All-Star' centric as people would think...

Smash 64 was marketed as 'Nintendo's All-Star duking out against eachother'...but yet it still featured who are still not quite as recognizable as there fellow smashers.. (Samus and Fox maybe less so because of Super Metroid and Star Fox 64 being critically acclaimed titles) but still...

and if we look into succeeding games, it gets even less apparent the focus on 'All-Stars'...

Nowadays the newcoming line-up would be insignificantly small if the devs would focus only on 'All-Stars'...at least if we exclude any third party big names which would actually be rather difficult given how most big names now are exclusive to other plats...

 

[ChikoLad]

The "All-Star" thing has really just become a PR buzzword now. It doesn't have a real defined meaning anymore.

Sure, your Mario characters, your Zelda characters, Pokémon characters, and third parties sans Bayonetta - those mostly classify as All-Stars very easily.

However, most of the other characters are fairly niche to the point where it is mostly Nintendo fans/core gamers who know them.

 

[Ura]

Well whether or not Golden Sun/Advance Wars are "All-Star" series is irrelevant (looking at the Sm4sH roster) because their not "nobody series" as Chandeelure put it (sorry for tagging you like this but I had to call that out). Both series have performed well and have solid fan followings outside of SB. Maybe AW to a lesser extent but at least it's still an old Nintendo series that can be considered a "retro rep" of sorts.

 

[ChikoLad]

Also to add onto my previous point:

This is what the actual definition of All-Star is.

For a lot of Smash characters, the best you can stretch is "they are All-Stars within their series".

Like, Fire Emblem isn't the most popular series in the world (though it is obviously growing now). But are the All-Stars OF Fire Emblem. So while these characters really aren't overall All-Stars, they are the All-Stars of the franchise they come from. They are the ones people are gonna know, if they know any Fire Emblem characters.

The same would apply to the Mario reps in Smash - they are the best of the Mario cast, the ones people are most likely to know. However, the difference there is that those Mario characters also happen to be just flat out, genuine All-Stars altogether, in their own right.

 

[Coricus]

Well whether or not Golden Sun/Advance Wars are "All-Star" series is irrelevant (looking at the Sm4sH roster) because their not "nobody series" as Chandeelure put it (sorry for tagging you like this but I had to call that out). Both series have performed well and have solid fan followings outside of SB. Maybe AW to a lesser extent but at least it's still an old Nintendo series that can be considered a "retro rep" of sorts.

For some reason every time I'm hearing the words "Advance Wars 'rep,'" something isn't quite clicking with me. It's nothing against AW, I just don't have anything click when I hear the word "rep" in general.

Can you give me the full sales pitch on Andy and Sami? Their full set of abilities, what they do in their games, maybe a rundown of how many Wars games each one has shown up in compared to the overall series and if any notable characters showed up in the games before their time?

I like to look at the full package before making a character verdict, not just the status of the series they hail from.

 

[Ura]

For some reason every time I'm hearing the words "Advance Wars 'rep,'" something isn't quite clicking with me. It's nothing against AW, I just don't have anything click when I hear the word "rep" in general.

Can you give me the full sales pitch on Andy and Sami? Their full set of abilities, what they do in their games, maybe a rundown of how many Wars games each one has shown up in compared to the overall series and if any notable characters showed up in the games before their time?

I like to look at the full package before making a character verdict, not just the status of the series they hail from.

I'm working on an assignment ATM so I can't get embroiled in discussing that right now. But to illustrate what I mean just look at the history of the series. The series has been around since 1988 (before FE even) and has appeared on 8 different consoles. It doesn't need to be represented like FE of course but it still deserves at least one rep.

I'll try to sell you on Andy once i'm not too busy. I even have a moveset and stuff I created for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_(series)#Games

 

[_Silver_]

Also to add onto my previous point:

This is what the actual definition of All-Star is.

For a lot of Smash characters, the best you can stretch is "they are All-Stars within their series".

Like, Fire Emblem isn't the most popular series in the world (though it is obviously growing now). But are the All-Stars OF Fire Emblem. So while these characters really aren't overall All-Stars, they are the All-Stars of the franchise they come from. They are the ones people are gonna know, if they know any Fire Emblem characters.

The same would apply to the Mario reps in Smash - they are the best of the Mario cast, the ones people are most likely to know. However, the difference there is that those Mario characters also happen to be just flat out, genuine All-Stars altogether, in their own right.

I can agree with you what you said about the Mario characters. They are just that famous and recognisable. Barely anyone in the world doesn't know who Mario is nowadays.

 

[Ivander]

While I wouldn't know how an Advance Wars character would work besides having some inspirations from Snake, I always thought an Advance Wars stage would have alot of potential.
Basically, the players fight on a huge building with the army fights happening on a massive battlefield in the background. However, soldiers from the various sides try to take over the building the players are fighting on, reminiscent of the gameplay mechanic of capturing buildings for your side and stuff. When one side successfully takes over the building, a CO from that side will appear in the background and change the building and/or do events accordingly to that CO's specialty, like Olaf would summon a snowstorm or Eagle would send in an air-force/make platforms appear in the air, etc. Eventually, the CO disappears and soldiers start trying to take over the building again.

 

[Ura]

While I wouldn't know how an Advance Wars character would work besides having some inspirations from Snake, I always thought an Advance Wars stage would have alot of potential.
Basically, the players fight on a huge building with the army fights happening on a massive battlefield in the background. However, soldiers from the various sides try to take over the building the players are fighting on, reminiscent of the gameplay mechanic of capturing buildings for your side and stuff. When one side successfully takes over the building, a CO from that side will appear in the background and change the building and/or do events accordingly to that CO's specialty, like Olaf would summon a snowstorm or Eagle would send in an air-force/make platforms appear in the air, etc. Eventually, the CO disappears and soldiers start trying to take over the building again.

Nice. I had an AW character in mind but I never thought of a stage for that series before. All I know is that anything involving Sturm involves him being OP as hell lol. I can even imagine him summoning a meteor in the stage (lol Sephiroth) making it a massive stage hazard.

 

[ChikoLad]

What metric is it exactly that you use to gauge what an "All-Star" is? Series? Sales? Popularity? History? This terms seems vague as all hell.

I missed this one.

It really just means characters who have made an impact and are beloved, or at least iconic.

It doesn't just apply to characters and stuff. Like, for example, Robin Williams would be considered an All-Star actor, because he made such an impact in his life in the world of acting and film, even if it was unfortunately cut short.

 

[Z25]

I still stand by making the infantry playable, think of olimar and pikmin.

One unit leads them, while the others follow. You change them with standard B.

It fits the idea of an rep from AW better imo and could be pretty fun

 

[Ura]

I still stand by making the infantry playable, think of olimar and pikmin.

One unit leads them, while the others follow. You change them with standard B.

It fits the idea of an rep from AW better imo and could be pretty fun

Apart of my moveset for Andy involves him summoning Infantry/Mechs as his neutral B, similar to what Duck Hunt has.

 

[Z25]

Apart of my moveset for Andy involves him summoning Infantry/Mechs as his neutral B, similar to what Duck Hunt has.

I could definitely see this happen as well. I'm fine with either character really, it's just cool because AW has a lot of potential for a character in smash.

 

[Ura]

I'm fine with either character really, it's just cool because AW has a lot of potential for a character in smash.

I think any AW fan out there isn't picky about who should get in the game and just wants to see any sort of playable representation in the game lol.

I'd be A-Okay if for some reason they decided to add Max instead of Andy or Sami even though he's unlikely (I always use him in Advance Wars anyways lol). Any sort of playable representation for this series is a positive in my eyes. Same thing with Golden Sun though I would much rather see Isaac be in the game instead of Matthew.

 

[Jdaster64]

Duck out for a weekend and catch the past ten+ pages, and am immediately reminded as to why I stopped following this thread.

For my two cents, Smash 4's roster is pretty dang solid aside from lackluster Pokémon representation*, and there's not really a question as to whether it's better than previous ones, at least in my eyes.

Spoiler: * Elaboration on my thoughts on Pokémon representation

When I say that it's not well-represented, I don't mean that the individual characters are poor choices, or that I'd rather have cut different Pokémon than the ones chosen (if I were to choose three out of the nine individually, I'd have a hard time justifying keeping any one of them in exchange for one of the six), but I think that taken as a whole there could be a lot better representation of different stages in Pokémon evolution and different playstyles, something that I think Brawl did a much better job with. The Pokémon Trainer single-handedly gave Pokémon the best representation it could have had (IMO) regardless of the specific Pokémon used, and it's a shame that they couldn't have done a reprise of that idea if the series was only going to get one newcomer (I would've killed for a Kalos equivalent). The fact also remains that regardless of external popularity, the cut Pokémon veterans comprise two of the five unique non-returning movesets (three out of the six, if they had given Pichu the Roy treatment), which is a crying shame for a series that could easily afford another couple characters for its size.

Those relatively common opinions aside, my personal issues (which I admit are mostly just that) continue with Greninja being unfortunately unwieldy to control, and Charizard being the least fun of the three Trainer Pokémon to play (I always preferred quick, aerial-based berserkers, with Squirtle being one of the prime examples; Charizard's anything but). I always found Mewtwo and Lucario a good bit too loosely controlled as well, and in Lucario's case, I see that as an unfortunately unfitting representation of the character; Pokkén did a much better job with him, in my opinion. In fact, if there's any consolation at all (not that Smash 4 really needs it as a whole, as there's plenty of other characters I enjoy playing), it's that Pokkén has pretty much none of the issues I have with Smash's Pokémon roster; mostly really popular Pokémon, but with a huge diversity in playstyle, appearance, strength, body types, etc., etc. ... Plus, two completely different Pikachu movesets and freaking Braixen as a playable character. Enough said.

I'll refrain from commenting on whether any characters are "all-stars", as my experience is limited to a few series that are already pretty solid in the character department (Pokémon excepted), and that's proven to be a practically infinitely-deep rabbit hole.

On the lighter side, Kirby: Planet Robobot is looking increasingly fantastic. Can't wait to see more of those side modes, and more importantly, hear more of that music. That music, guys. The main theme seems to take some inspiration from the Dream Land credits theme and Fine Field 2's theme from Triple Deluxe, two of my all-time favorites. Then there's the remix of Nutty Noon 2's theme from Return to Dream Land (although the filename seems to suggest it's been relegated to an amiibo-related screen this time, alas). I love that that theme's apparently becoming a standard Kirby tune; it's been in every game since its inception, and apparently it had a substantially different beta version before that. Loving the increasing focus on that jazz piano countermelody, too.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Star Fox Zero amiibo stuff:

Apparently, scanning the Falco amiibo in Star Fox Zero will unlock a Black Arwing. Image via @Sirxtommy! pic.twitter.com/k5Eg0r1Mb1

— Amiibo News (@AmiiboNews) March 28, 2016

 

[ChikoLad]

Star Fox Zero amiibo stuff:

Apparently, scanning the Falco amiibo in Star Fox Zero will unlock a Black Arwing. Image via @Sirxtommy! pic.twitter.com/k5Eg0r1Mb1

— Amiibo News (@AmiiboNews) March 28, 2016

It's like they based it off this.

Spoiler

They know how to appeal to me.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Star Fox Zero amiibo stuff:

Apparently, scanning the Falco amiibo in Star Fox Zero will unlock a Black Arwing. Image via @Sirxtommy! pic.twitter.com/k5Eg0r1Mb1

— Amiibo News (@AmiiboNews) March 28, 2016

. . .Is that a Wonder Red arwing?


SOMEONE FIND ME A FALCO AMIIBO RIGHT ****ING NOW

 

[Ivander]

I think any AW fan out there isn't picky about who should get in the game and just wants to see any sort of playable representation in the game lol.

I'd be A-Okay if for some reason they decided to add Max instead of Andy or Sami even though he's unlikely (I always use him in Advance Wars anyways lol). Any sort of playable representation for this series is a positive in my eyes. Same thing with Golden Sun though I would much rather see Isaac be in the game instead of Matthew.

What about Will? I mean, at the very least, some music from Days of Ruin should be in. That had awesome music.

Anyway, whatever my sister had, I now have. Basically, I'm very sick. Ended up sleeping through most of today for feeling very nauseous and for my body feeling incredibly heavy. I'm a bit better than I was this afternoon, but geez, it is not happy fun times for me today. Still hurts alot to cough.

 

[wedl!!]

hey guys haha funny thought i just had

should i quit smash 4 competitively so my blood pressure doesn't continue to rise whenever i see a ****ing stupid discussion about bayonetta or i get frustrated at my own lacking skill level

 

[Ura]

What about Will? I mean, at the very least, some music from Days of Ruin should be in. That had awesome music.

Never played DoR to be honest lol but yeah that game can have a track or two in an AW stage. Overall I would want AW content in Smash to be more focused on the GBA AW games personally.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

hey guys haha funny thought i just had

should i quit smash 4 competitively so my blood pressure doesn't continue to rise whenever i see a ****ing stupid discussion about bayonetta or i get frustrated at my own lacking skill level

Nope.

Either be the best or die trying.

 

[Ura]

Nope.

Either be the best or die trying.

As someone who is a big fan this brings me great joy.

 

[ChikoLad]

hey guys haha funny thought i just had

should i quit smash 4 competitively so my blood pressure doesn't continue to rise whenever i see a ****ing stupid discussion about bayonetta or i get frustrated at my own lacking skill level

Legitimately, if it is causing you a lot of stress, you should at least take a break, maybe practicing in silence.

You probably shouldn't let salt towards your character get to you though. If you're beating them, that's all you need to say you are better than them.

 

[_Silver_]

Legitimately, if it is causing you a lot of stress, you should at least take a break, maybe practicing in silence.

You probably shouldn't let salt towards your character get to you though. If you're beating them, that's all you need to say you are better than them.

And If they automatically go ballistic, just leave them to be salty. It's what I did once.

 

[AreJay25]

#BanBayonetta

... 's taunts. They're super busted. No character should be able to **** talk AND cancel it out before they get punished! What was Sakurai thinking?!

 

[Ura]

I tend to get really salty when i'm on FG. Especially when it comes down to the wire and a simple slip up costs me the whole match. I get extremely furious when that happens lol.

 

[Aetheri]

Chugging along Hyrule Warriors and, Twili Midna is a monster...

however...

Spoiler

'Oh Look random dark crystal, wonder what happens if I touch it. Oh, It changed me back to my True Form, what are the odds?'

lol...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

#BanBayonetta

... 's taunts. They're super busted. No character should be able to **** talk AND cancel it out before they get punished! What was Sakurai thinking?!

Young Link seriously needs Taunt Cancelling.

 

[Z25]

#BanBayonetta

... 's taunts. They're super busted. No character should be able to **** talk AND cancel it out before they get punished! What was Sakurai thinking?!

I know right! It also can kill poor Lucas, who's one of the best characters in the game at 0%!

That's one hell of a nerf Sakurai! Why?

No taunt should be able to kill a top tier character at 0%!

That's savage and cheap!