Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[ChikoLad]

Exactly this. It's literally just being insulting to everyone because you think they can't understand your argument, instead of simply the fact they might just disagree with it.

Actually, I was more meaning to say that they should have left the Stockholm Syndrome point out of their post, because people see that, and will be distracted from the rest of their point because they don't get what the Stockholm Syndrome remark was supposed to mean.

It isn't the best comparison and I don't agree with it either, but I do know what they meant with the Stockholm Syndrome remark.

I'm not trying to take a side here, the argument was a poor one but at the same time, people in this thread do tend to look at one specific word in a person's statement and focus squarely on that and never let up.

Yeah, seriously. I'm not saying the developers held a gun to their heads and said "enjoy Lucario".

Yes, but people can still find the comparison ridiculous on the basis of inferring that Lucario was forced, especially when you said "people who have Stockholm Syndrome would deny having it". That was you literally saying "if you disagree with me that Lucario was forced, you have Stockholm Syndrome and you fell for Game Freak forcing him on you". Which was silly. I'm honestly pretty indifferent on Lucario and I don't play Pokémon other than the odd time they put out an interesting spin-off, yet I will still heavily disagree with the idea that Lucario is forced, and that it is at all comparable to Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Whatever.
Digimon was always the better show and it's just a shame that it didn't catch on as a game series as hard because of namely being console-bound instead of the ease of handhelds and that it never really hit the right engine system until World 3.

To be fair, World 4 was... awful. I mean, World 1 had issues, but was still fun. World 2 was easily better, but was far from perfect. World 3 was a very nice improvement. World 4 was a bad MMO design. There's a ton of other games, though. I do wish it had more high quality ones like it's been getting lately. The anime is better remembered probably cause of a neat revolving cast and a lot of good characterization at times. That's why Pokemon(the Anime) has less popularity, namely due to Ash still being there. On the other hand, some got so used to his traveling companions(Brock, Misty), they got annoyed seeing them go. It didn't know how to revolve the cast around properly. Either some is too long or some are not long enough. It's weird. There's other issues, but eh.

Anyway, I still can enjoy many Digimon games as well as the Pokemon anime, but they are flawed, respectively(bad balance, very annoying evolution requirements... oh, this can apply to Pokemon too )

 

[Aetheri]

I never ONCE said anyone's opinion is lesser because they like Lucario or Blaziken or any other Pokemon I find to be terrible, I just gave my opinion and you people jumped on me like I was saying "OJ Simpson is a hero".

It's disgusting when you people do things like this, people end up feeling like they're not allowed to have a god damn differing opinion on this site sometimes.

For the record it isn't about you having a differing opinion...its about how you convey said opinion...

 

[Burruni]

To be fair, World 4 was... awful. I mean, World 1 had issues, but was still fun. World 2 was easily better, but was far from perfect. World 3 was a very nice improvement. World 4 was a bad MMO design. There's a ton of other games, though. I do wish it had more high quality ones like it's been getting lately. The anime is better remembered probably cause of a neat revolving cast and a lot of good characterization at times. That's why Pokemon(the Anime) has less popularity, namely due to Ash still being there. On the other hand, some got so used to his traveling companions(Brock, Misty), they got annoyed seeing them go. It didn't know how to revolve the cast around properly. Either some is too long or some are not long enough. It's weird. There's other issues, but eh.

Anyway, I still can enjoy many Digimon games as well as the Pokemon anime, but they are flawed, respectively(bad balance, very annoying evolution requirements... oh, this can apply to Pokemon too )

I never actually got to playing World 4.
Data Squad.... had the issues of being tied to a pretty weak series of the anime imo.
But Cyber Sleuth... mmph! Barring some real difficulty spike bosses, it's basically an "HD" DS-era World game and it's so goood

 

[Deleted member]

We interrupt your argument for a video about Startropics from the Gaming Historian:

Please Nintendo, bring Startropics back.

 

[Deleted member]

Your argument is still stupid, me saying "this thing seems like more of that than this" is NOT the same as me saying "this and that are exactly the same"

Look, if you don't understand what I'm getting at then I don't know what to say. I can't be any clearer.

I never once claimed that you said this

this and that are exactly the same

You're the one misunderstanding my argument

 

[AreJay25]

Smash 4 has some very interesting AI.

And by interesting I mean ridiculous.

 

[Chandeelure]

Smash 4 has some very interesting AI.

And by interesting I mean ridiculous.

I see nothing ridiculous about that...
That combo is super easy to do.

I thought it would be something like Bayonetta using Witch Time in Yoshi and Ganondorf using Warlock Punch to kill him.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Smash 4 has some very interesting AI.

And by interesting I mean ridiculous.

Wow even the CPU can do the insta-kill combo. I'm not sure whether to be impressed or terrfied

 

[Burruni]

Yo.
For people playing Yokai Watch: Wibble Wobble
I have two big tips
A) Unlike the main game, HEARTFUL YOKAI ARE A HUGE BOON BECAUSE YOU NEED HEALING SOULTIMATES
B) A REALLY GOOD ONE you can get fairly early on is fusing Schmoopie and Tongus

 

[Deleted member]

..This is just going to be one of those arguements that keeps on going because of someone thinking everyone's attacking because of them because of their opinion, when really, it's just because their way of expressing it is rather pointlessly antagonizing.... Huh?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Bar a couple of Donkey Kong Characters, Ridley (funny how public opinion turned on him), dropped veterans and which ever Pokemon is the next flavour of the month (I'd say the same for Fire Emblem but Corrin may have pre-empted that) I can't think of any Nintendo All-Stars left to add to Smash.

Any more Mario characters and we're into the spin-off cast, any more Zelda ones and we're into the single game cast (Sheik's already got that started).

That said there are a few more characters on my want list but I don't think they're all-stars.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I never actually got to playing World 4.
Data Squad.... had the issues of being tied to a pretty weak series of the anime imo.
But Cyber Sleuth... mmph! Barring some real difficulty spike bosses, it's basically an "HD" DS-era World game and it's so goood

I loved Data Squad, but yeah, it was hardly the most popular.

World 4 is pretty much an MMORPG by design. Similar leveling up system for items that World 2 had, though. It's been a while, but you do have a hub system in the same way as 2. The biggest reason to get the game was for the Dorumon Playing card.

I will get Cyber Sleuth after I own a Vita or PS4.

 

[AreJay25]

I see nothing ridiculous about that...
That combo is super easy to do.

I thought it would be something like Bayonetta using Witch Time in Yoshi and Ganondorf using Warlock Punch to kill him.

Nothing to do with how easy the combo is.

It's the fact that the AI is actually programmed to do a freakin' 0-to-death combo.

 

[Ura]

Bar a couple of Donkey Kong Characters, Ridley (funny how public opinion turned on him), dropped veterans and which ever Pokemon is the next flavour of the month (I'd say the same for Fire Emblem but Corrin may have pre-empted that) I can't think of any Nintendo All-Stars left to add to Smash.

Any more Mario characters and we're into the spin-off cast, any more Zelda ones and we're into the single game cast (Sheik's already got that started).

That said there are a few more characters on my want list but I don't think they're all-stars.

Isaac, Andy/Sami, Chorus Men, K. Rool, Dixie, Paper Mario, Tetra, newer characters, and cut vets. Saying there's no Nintendo All-Stars is a load of poop really, no offense or anything.

 

[ChikoLad]

Nothing to do with how easy the combo is.

It's the fact that the AI is actually programmed to do a freakin' 0-to-death combo.

To be fair, she was aided by Ganondorf in this case.

To be honest, I thought the video was about how hard Ganondorf was pummeling Bayonetta at first and how he kept going right for her.

 

[Burruni]

Isaac, Andy/Sami, Chorus Men, K. Rool, Dixie, Paper Mario, Tetra, newer characters, and cut vets. Saying there's no Nintendo All-Stars is a load of poop really, no offense or anything.

To say that Isaac, Andy, Sami, "Chorus Men" (which is actually just their japanese name), and Tetra are "All-Stars" is a stretch and you have to concede to that.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Isaac, Andy/Sami, Chorus Men, K. Rool, Dixie, Paper Mario, Tetra, newer characters, and cut vets. Saying there's no Nintendo All-Stars is a load of poop really, no offense or anything.

Ironic based on your own statement that we're running out of Nintendo characters.

I think having 1/4th-1/3rd of newcomers being 3rd party characters is fine really. We're running out of Nintendo newcomers anyways so bringing in 3rd party characters is a positive in my eyes. If a Smash game is going to have 12 newcomers than you can add like 3-4 3rd party characters.

 

[Substitution]

..This is just going to be one of those arguements that keeps on going because of someone thinking everyone's attacking because of them because of their opinion, when really, it's just because their way of expressing it is rather pointlessly antagonizing.... Huh?

Well we can't go a few pages without one.
It's a NintenZone tradition. Up next we'll do the always festive straw grasping.

 

[ChikoLad]

To say that Isaac, Andy, Sami, "Chorus Men" (which isn't their name in any version of Rhythm Heaven btw), and Tetra are "All-Stars" is a stretch and you have to concede to that.

Not Tetra.

She's from what is now a very popular Zelda game.

She literally is a version of Princess Zelda.

She's now in Hyrule Warriors and even part of a storyline in it.

And most importantly, she is on Nintendo's official list of best girls.

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-celebrates-womens-history-month/

 

[Deleted member]

Isaac, Andy/Sami, Chorus Men, K. Rool, Dixie, Paper Mario, Tetra, newer characters, and cut vets. Saying there's no Nintendo All-Stars is a load of poop really, no offense or anything.

Besides K. Rool and dixie, and new characters in the future, which who knows who those will be like. All of those are rather obscure.(That doesn't mean I'm saying I don't want them in, I'm simpilily saying yhat they aren't all stars.) Hell, I had to look up who andy/sandy were. And there's only two vets that people want to come back, excluding snake because... Well.... Konami...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Bar a couple of Donkey Kong Characters, Ridley (funny how public opinion turned on him), dropped veterans and which ever Pokemon is the next flavour of the month (I'd say the same for Fire Emblem but Corrin may have pre-empted that) I can't think of any Nintendo All-Stars left to add to Smash.

Any more Mario characters and we're into the spin-off cast, any more Zelda ones and we're into the single game cast (Sheik's already got that started).

That said there are a few more characters on my want list but I don't think they're all-stars.

Toad is not among the "spin-off" cast. So not really. Albeit, Mario lacks a real canon, so spin-off doesn't refer to stories unlike most games. It's ultimately "Platformers" and "Non-Platformers" at this point. Daisy appeared first in a Platformer and isn't really a spin-off character(although she got her notability from the spin-offs, respectively). Captain Toad's notability is actually from a spin-off, while regular Toad was notable in a normal game(SMB2USA). It's strange for him.

 

[Coricus]

Bar a couple of Donkey Kong Characters, Ridley (funny how public opinion turned on him), dropped veterans and which ever Pokemon is the next flavour of the month (I'd say the same for Fire Emblem but Corrin may have pre-empted that) I can't think of any Nintendo All-Stars left to add to Smash.

Any more Mario characters and we're into the spin-off cast, any more Zelda ones and we're into the single game cast (Sheik's already got that started).

That said there are a few more characters on my want list but I don't think they're all-stars.

Well, if we're including flavor-of-the-month Pokemon, I do think that Inkling's status now is this game's equivalent of Olimar's status in Melee, only with a stronger marketing push and a more dedicated fanbase right off the bat.

Other than that, though, and I'm inclined to agree.

There's a couple of other characters that might at least be better qualified than most requests, but the list of actual All-Stars is very short.

Not Tetra.

She's from what is now a very popular Zelda game.

She literally is a version of Princess Zelda.

She's now in Hyrule Warriors and even part of a storyline in it.

And most importantly, she is on Nintendo's official list of best girls.

http://nintendoeverything.com/nintendo-celebrates-womens-history-month/

. . .And now I'm suddenly imagining Toadette and Bombette as playable in Smash.

On the bright side, a playable Bob-omb with a coat of pink paint at least sounds hilarious.

 

[Z25]

So Serebii reported the fake serebii twitter on account of reporting fake news. Which is understandable, but it was all fun and no one took it serious. I do like this tweet from the fake one though:

 

[Burruni]

Still.
There's a sizable list you could do for Nintendo newcomers without even looking at what may come that have some level of weight to their name.
Judging by Brawl and Smash 4, we'll likely see ~18 newcomers in total.
Just going full Nintendo...

1. Waluigi
2. Captain Toad
3. Paper Mario
4. Dixie Kong
5. Cranky Kong
6. K. Rool
7. Ashley
8. Captain Syrup
9. Ganon
10. Linkle
11. Impa
12. Bandana Dee
13. Ridley
14. Anna
15. Isabelle
16. Elma
17. Inkling
18. Isaac

That's just off the top of my head....

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Isaac, Andy/Sami, Chorus Men, K. Rool, Dixie, Paper Mario, Tetra, newer characters, and cut vets. Saying there's no Nintendo All-Stars is a load of poop really, no offense or anything.

I mentioned Dixie and K. Rool and the cut veterans.

And when I say all-stars I mean characters that people other than hardcore Nintendo fans will recognise. I'm not joking when I say the most recognisable 1st party character added in Smash 4 was Duck Hunt.

 

[ChikoLad]

Well, if we're including flavor-of-the-month Pokemon, I do think that Inkling's status now is this game's equivalent of Olimar's status in Melee, only with a stronger marketing push and a more dedicated fanbase right off the bat.

Other than that, though, and I'm inclined to agree.

There's a couple of other characters that might at least be better qualified than most requests, but the list of actual All-Stars is very short.


. . .And now I'm suddenly imagining Toadette and Bombette as playable in Smash.

On the bright side, a playable Bob-omb with a coat of pink paint at least sounds hilarious.

I've been an advocate of having Captain Toad as a character, and if he were to be a character, Toadette really should be an alt.

As for Bombette, I am playing Paper Mario on and off right now, and I can confirm she is top tier.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well, if we're including flavor-of-the-month Pokemon, I do think that Inkling's status now is this game's equivalent of Olimar's status in Melee, only with a stronger marketing push and a more dedicated fanbase right off the bat.

Other than that, though, and I'm inclined to agree.
There's a couple of other characters that might at least be better qualified than most requests, but the list of actual All-Stars is very short..

I forgot the Inklings. All they need is Splatoon NX and they're near guaranteed. (Them or the Squid Sisters.)

 

[Burruni]

I'm not joking when I say the most recognisable 1st party character added in Smash 4 was Duck Hunt.

I feel like that's not quite right.

 

[ChikoLad]

Still.
There's a sizable list you could do for Nintendo newcomers without even looking at what may come that have some level of weight to their name.
Judging by Brawl and Smash 4, we'll likely see ~18 newcomers in total.
Just going full Nintendo...

1. Waluigi
2. Captain Toad
3. Paper Mario
4. Dixie Kong
5. Cranky Kong
6. K. Rool
7. Ashley
8. Captain Syrup
9. Ganon
10. Linkle
11. Impa
12. Bandana Dee
13. Ridley
14. Anna
15. Isabelle
16. Elma
17. Inkling
18. Isaac

That's just off the top of my head....

I honestly don't think half of these classify as All-Stars at all. By any line of logic.

Not that I think being an All-Star really matters anymore.

 

[Chandeelure]

Golden Sun and Advance Wars characters are nobodies, they are only "popular" in forums like this one.
They are not All Stars IMO.
All Stars for me are the important characters from the most popular franchises (Mario, Pokémon, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Star Fox, Animal Crossing), iconic retros and super succesful new games (Splatoon).

Nothing to do with how easy the combo is.

It's the fact that the AI is actually programmed to do a freakin' 0-to-death combo.

Bayonetta is Side and Up Special: The Character, it's obvious the CPUs would be able to do those combos.

I feel like that's not quite right.

Wat.
For non Nintendo fans those are Elsa, deformed Squirtle, weird kid and generic human character.
Duck Hunt is very famous and recognizable, even if the Smash model looks like a Disney thing.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I feel like that's not quite right.

I still stand by my statement. Those ones are notable and I'd still qualify them as All-Stars but they're all fairly recent in the scheme of Nintendo

<--This face has been burned into the greater conciousness of console gaming for decades. Or more specifically...

^This one

 

[ChikoLad]

Golden Sun and Advance Wars characters are nobodies, they are only "popular" in forums like this one.
They are not All Stars IMO.
All Stars for me are the important characters from the most popular franchises (Mario, Pokémon, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Star Fox, Animal Crossing), iconic retros and super succesful new games (Splatoon).


Bayonetta is Side and Up Special: The Character, it's obvious the CPUs would be able to do those combos.

Wat.
For non Nintendo fans those are Elsa, deformed Squirtle, weird kid and generic human character.

I know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who actually think the Rosalina/Elsa comparison is stupid (it's honestly just a bad meme rather than some legitimately prevalent comparison, like some people seem to believe), know who the Villager is pre-Smash, and definitely know what a Mii is because everyone has a Wii.

Bowser. Jr is the only odd one out there.

I still stand by my statement. Those ones are notable and I'd still qualify as All-Stars but they're all fairly recent in the scheme of Nintendo

<--This face has been burned into the greater conciousness of console gaming for decades. Or more specifically...

^This one

Duck Hunt Dog is more like a character that most people forget about since he makes such a minor appearance in the one game.

They might recall his face when they see him but I think calling him a bigger All-Star than legitimately beloved characters, and the Miis (once again, everyone had a Wii) is a stretch.

 

[AreJay25]

Bayonetta is Side and Up Special: The Character, it's obvious the CPUs would be able to do those combos.

I mean.

It's less obvious that the AI would opt to do a kill combo instead of something more simple.

 

[Ura]

To say that Isaac, Andy, Sami, "Chorus Men" (which is actually just their japanese name), and Tetra are "All-Stars" is a stretch and you have to concede to that.

Not at all. Every single Golden Sun game has sold better than any of Marth's games. What's the metric we're using here? Cause if it's sales than Isaac and every other GS main protagonist is a bigger all-star than Marth by that logic.

Wars deserves a rep on the merit that it's a long running Nintendo franchise that pre-dates even FE. Smash being a series that celebrates the history of Nintendo can't omit a series like this.

Rhythm Heaven is a fairly big title despite me not being in to it all that much and Tetra is a big LoZ character.

Ironic based on your own statement that we're running out of Nintendo characters.

Hence why I said that 3rd party characters can take about less than half of the newcomer spots. We're running low but there's still a bunch of series that need to be represented and characters from series that need to be represented.

Besides K. Rool and dixie, and new characters in the future, which who knows who those will be like. All of those are rather obscure.(That doesn't mean I'm saying I don't want them in, I'm simpilily saying yhat they aren't all stars.) Hell, I had to look up who andy/sandy were. And there's only two vets that people want to come back, excluding snake because... Well.... Konami...

Like I said before, GS and AW aren't nobody Nintendo series. They're both relatively big series in their both rights. One is a series that's sold well and is beloved by fans and one is a long-running Nintendo series that deserves having 1 playable character at the minimum.

I mentioned Dixie and K. Rool and the cut veterans.

And when I say all-stars I mean characters that people other than hardcore Nintendo fans will recognise. I'm not joking when I say the most recognisable 1st party character added in Smash 4 was Duck Hunt.

IDK what people classify as being an "All-Star" because it looks like people can skew what it means to have said title. To me it's a series that is relatively large and/or has a long history of being on a Nintendo console.

 

[Chandeelure]

I know plenty of non-Nintendo fans who actually think the Rosalina/Elsa comparison is stupid (it's honestly just a bad meme rather than some legitimately prevalent comparison, like some people seem to believe), know who the Villager is pre-Smash, and definitely know what a Mii is because everyone has a Wii.

Bowser. Jr is the only odd one out there.



Duck Hunt Dog is more like a character that most people forget about since he makes such a minor appearance in the one game.

They might recall his face when they see him but I think calling him a bigger All-Star than legitimately beloved characters, and the Miis (once again, everyone had a Wii) is a stretch.

Yeah, it was just a quick comparison, most people who are not Nintendo or videogame fans think Rosalina is just Peach or a Barbie, not Elsa.
And the Villager's and Mii's designs are so generic that I really doubt they are more recognizable than Duck Hunt.

 

[Burruni]

Not at all. Every single Golden Sun game has sold better than any of Marth's games. What's the metric we're using here? Cause if it's sales than Isaac and every other GS main protagonist is a bigger all-star than Marth by that logic.

Wars deserves a rep on the merit that it's a long running Nintendo franchise that pre-dates even FE. Smash being a series that celebrates the history of Nintendo can't omit a series like this.

Rhythm Heaven is a fairly big title despite me not being in to it all that much and Tetra is a big LoZ character.

Did I say the games didn't sell well? No.
Those characters are just not huge names for Nintendo, and you can say this for a NUMBER of characters in Smash.
from the start to the end.

Tetra is still no big LoZ character.
Wind Waker she had a major role.
Phantom Hourglass she's seen in 3 whole cutscenes.
And then she was part of a japan-exclusive GC game.
That is going off the grounds that we disregard Hyrule Warriors as any boon because if so she's still on the level of such figures as Darunia and Ruto more than Zelda, Link, Ganon... barring the irony of her yes technically being Zelda.

 

[Ura]

Did I say the games didn't sell well? No.
Those characters are just not huge names for Nintendo, and you can say this for a NUMBER of characters in Smash.
from the start to the end.

Tetra is still no big LoZ character.
Wind Waker she had a major role.
Phantom Hourglass she's seen in 3 whole cutscenes.
And then she was part of a japan-exclusive GC game.
That is going off the grounds that we disregard Hyrule Warriors as any boon because if so she's still on the level of such figures as Darunia and Ruto more than Zelda, Link, Ganon... barring the irony of her yes technically being Zelda.

But how many characters can you honestly say that for? Your talking about characters who casual fans can recognize right? I don't think any casual fan knew about like half the Sm4sH newcomers in the game.

 

[A Distant Demon]

But how many characters can you honestly say that for? Your talking about characters who casual fans can recognize right? I don't think any casual fan knew about like half the Sm4sH newcomers in the game.

The question isn't whether they are mash worthy. The question is are they an "all star."

Whether or mot Tetra/Andy/Isaac/etc are all stars has nothing to do with whether or not the smash 4 newcomers are recognizable

 

[Depressed Gengar]

I like how nobody has brought up Meowth yet despite his extreme iconicness. He's certainly an All-Star.