Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[LIQUID12A]

Oh I'm not mad.
I just thought it came off kind of elitist-like ("I don't like that others think differently" kind of thing). If that wasn't the intention, then I was mistaken. It's just that calling out specific people with a link to what they said seems unnecessarily petty. That, and the whole lumping people together thing. Like, not everyone who believes *insert character A* is a shoo in thinks *character B* is. And those aren't necessarily the people decrying the game because *character C* got in. People differ. Lumping everyone who follows the shoo-in "mindset" into the same group is just unnecessary, as there's way too many other variables to consider.

Just my thoughts on it.

The funny thing is that this is proceeding exactly like an incident that had me mocking a few specific fanbases as opposed to a mentality.

Spoiler

How are you any different from those toxic individuals who drove all the Ridley and K. Rool fans completely out of the forums and on to a social group after the full roster reveal? Why did you feel the need to mock every major desired characters, and their fans?

I won't deny that I mock the fans. Only, however, the unreasonable ones. Those that can't simply move on(hi KKR fans), those that commit to predictions yet get amazingly angry when it backfires because they don't acknowledge the possibility of failure, and the fanatics. The reasonable ones are exempt from my view of this fanbase because they understand that things could possibly not go their way. Of course, this sounds like me putting a "holier than thou" image, and to an extent it is. I do sympathize with the fans that didn't receive anything but know that they tried and push on with support, leaving this in the past. It's the groups like Wolf and KKR conspirators that get to me.

Despite what my history of criticizing the very evident echo chamber may lead people to believe, I very much have respect for a good chunk of the fanbases post-DLC simply because they had their venting and moved on. Ironically, Isaac just so happens to be my most respected fanbase right now(with, of course, the exception of certain users I don't like, of which you are not among them even in light of our previous incidents).

I am not out to intentionally harass any singular fanbase. If I did, then many more people would view me with absolute ire for valid reasons. I will agree that I am perhaps too much of a cynic when talking about these topics because I see things logically and objectively. As for your specific examples, while I very much dislike, say, the KKR fanbase's attitude towards things, I still support both him and Ridley because they would be great additions to Smash. Their fanbases have still accomplished a great deal and for that I respect them.

Even with my cynicism, I try to handle arguments as peacefully as possible. Very rarely do I outright insult someone unless they've earned my absolute scorn, and even then I'll answer sternly as opposed to outright offense.

I don't expect you to agree and will expect a heated reply back, but there you go.

No, I understand. I just really didn't get that post. It seemed to be something mocking everyone who was a fan of those characters you mentioned, as well as the characters themselves in derisive terms (eye-sack, the reptile, etcetera).

I understand being upset with the people who STILL can't move past their rage at the final roster.

That post just seemed like it was attacking both the characters, and the fans, including all of those who were disappointed that a particular character didn't get in. And disappointment seems completely reasonable to me. The rage, cries of "no buy DLC", and the hostility towards other fans and players that some of those disappointed fans and fanbases have is unreasonable, yes. Your comment just seemed far wider in scale than that.

I use the term "eye sack" around quite a few fans jokingly and they've never minded. Oh well.

I do generalize a good portion of the fans when making these comments(if I had to make a guess, about 80%), though in those cases I also mention the reasonable fans as well, because the criticism is unfortunately on a very wide scale given the nature of it. Going back to specifics, I saw the Isaac fans take the loss rather well in spite of the "Isaac is evidently high on the ballot, has a very high chance and screw everyone else's bias when they disagree" mentality that a few of the fans had.

Disappointment, I agree, is completely reasonable. I was disappointed I didn't get a Mii costume of all things. It's when there's no acceptance of the matter afterwards that the problem ensues.

Many of the same things in this exchange apply here. If I vilified absolutely everyone, then any and all ire against me would be completely justified, plus I'd have more than a few enemies.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It used to be good. Pre-release, when @Groose and @Fuzzy Pickles! were in charge of running it.

Although, it was good to most people when popular characters were being rated. The mindset pre-release was generally the same.
@Groose made the thread standout though, he was always fun to be with.

 

[FalKoopa]

Speaking of shoo-ins, iirc Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac were the only universally predicted characters that made it in. Mewtwo as well, although as DLC.

 

[IceBreakerXY]

It used to be good. Pre-release, when @Groose and @Fuzzy Pickles! were in charge of running it.

yeah my problems with RTC really just is 2.0 and how horrible it was

 

[Deleted member]

Well, it's time guys.
The last of Smash 4's content is finished, my premium is out, and it's still close to the beginning of the new year.
It is time for me to take a long hiatus from Smashboards, possibly forever.

In the time since I joined in December 2013 I have made over 23,000 posts.

Shoutouts to @GoldenYuiitusin and BluePikmin11 for being here since I joined and sticking around since the original Roster Prediction Discussion Thread. Shoutout to everyone in said thread.
Extra shoutout to Golden for doing all this while asleep.
Shoutout to @Scoliosis Jones for managing said thread as it was basically my home for 2 months and being pretty on-point.

Shoutouts to A Distant Demon , @WhiteEaglePL and @Only Human for taking care of Midna support after I leave.

Shoutouts to everyone in this thread who migrated from the Leaks Discussion group. You all are cool in some way even your opinions are sometimes wrong

Now for mods.
Shoutout to Opossum , @Firus, PushDustIn , FalKoopa and [I'M SURE I'M FORGETTING SOMEONE] for keeping the peace

Shoutout to @IsmaR for being scary and @N3ON for being formerly scary and for pointing out all the inconvenient truths.

Shoutout to @Hong, @Moydow, @Weeman, and @Jae for making me stick around the Robin social far longer than I wanted to, and the latter for the free signature work!

Shoutout to Swamp Sensei for being the NintenZone social mascot and being in some funny titles.

Shoutouts to @Naoshi, @Kokonoe, @Spinosaurus, @Awesomedude4444, @IntelliHeath1, and @CyberHyperPhoenix for joining me in the Discord made by Naoshi.

Shoutouts to everyone in the Disco Room and the Smash 4 social for being entertaining. There's so many of you guys, I couldn't possibly name you all!

And lastly, shoutout to you for reading this! If you've read this all the way through, you're probably the target audience as well!

Good bye for now!

Take care, Kenith.

You shall be missed.

 

[ChikoLad]

What variables would they be exactly?

A developing human thought process.

That's as big a variable as you're gonna get.

 

[Geno Boost]

Tagging Geno Boost .

Ooooooooh!!!! YEAH!!!!

 

[Opossum]

Honestly I think a lot of people don't give enough credit to the general mindset here as far as what newcomers were predicted. And for the ones we didn't predict, there were decent enough reasons for not doing so.

Newcomers in the base game:

Of these, here were the ones nigh universally accepted as shoo-ins on Smashboards: .
Here were the characters whose odds, even before Gematsu, were considered good: .

Already, that's seven (well, nine, but still) of the fifteen/seventeen. And even then, there's the fact that a Fire Emblem newcomer and a Retro character were almost universally included in rosters. Sure, it was Robin over Chrom and Duck Hunt over Takamaru, but it was more so the concept that people thought was guaranteed, than the actual character.

And then and were last minute clones, so they shouldn't really count toward this. They were bonuses.

Really, the only newcomers in the base game that either weren't seen as shoo-ins or their criteria (FE character, retros, etc) wasn't seen as shoo-in were ,,, and . And even then, there was justification.

: Sakurai said pre-Brawl he wouldn't work. Everyone pretty much thought Animal Crossing deserved a character, but no one here really thought it was likely because we were going by his Brawl philosophy. We were given no reason to believe a change in philosophy occurred.
: Simply put, people were all over the place with which Mario characters they supported, and even then, Rosalina had a small but notable support base here on Smashboards. People just assumed Bowser Jr. or Toad would be picked first since they're more inclined to do combat. She also received a notable support boost after 3D World. Over all, not to big of a misstep. Lots of people expected a Mario character in general. The problem was simply the amount of choices on seemingly equal ground, like Fire Emblem.
: Here was a big miss for us, but again, this one's due to the information given to us. Most people expected Brawl+Mewtwo when it came to Pokemon. But here's the big thing: we knew Gen V wouldn't get a character, for the most part. Zoroark failed to make a big enough splash. However, where we went wrong was thinking Gen VI was too new. Not to mention prior to this, it seemed like starters were locked to a Pokemon Trainer if Brawl was anything to go by. Like they didn't want to "offend" the people who chose the less popular starter, for lack of a better term. Then in the same Direct that showed transformations being removed (which no one even thought they'd do) and Charizard coming back solo, Greninja was revealed. If more time was given for some of these events, I think more people would have predicted him.
: Literally the one no one predicted, likely due to the prevalent "not everything needs a character" mentality.


So really, did we really do that badly? Is it really fair to say that the community as a whole is clueless as to how the roster's built? Granted, we batted zero on DLC newcomers, but that's a different story.

What variables would they be exactly?

Basically what I was getting at in the post with the different types of people. People are complex and don't always fall into boxes. It's the same reason why the APA recently discredited the "Five Stages of Grief" theory a couple of years back.

 

[epicmartin7]

So... Miiverse is in chaos right now.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/46syfz/psa_do_not_trust_anything_on_miiverse_right_now/)
Someone apparently released a tool that allows you to post any screenshot you want to Miiverse and a lot of people are using it to post things that shouldn't be allowed on there.

 

[---]

Speaking of shoo-ins, iirc Mega Man, Palutena and Little Mac were the only universally predicted characters that made it in. Mewtwo as well, although as DLC.

I wouldn't really count Palutena, she was only considered likely by a few people up until Uprising's story leaked/anime fans started to get interested in the series, and a shoo-in once those leaked(?) pictures came out two years later. I still have this on my Swapnote app from an argument I got into with Medusa fans after Uprising leaked in November of that year.

It blew my mind to learn that everything shown about Uprising thus far in promotions was only around a 3rd of the game as a whole, and that the game was still 4-5 months away. lol

Little Mac, Miis, Mega Man, and technically Mewtwo were the only real conservative choices that made it in IMO.

Mario: No Newcomers (Rosalina/Jr./Dr. are the easiest cuts for the next game IMO)
DK: K.Rool or Dixie, neither are shoo-ins
Zelda: No Newcomers
Metroid: Ridley makes sense (fans were a lot less vocal then)
Kirby: No newcomers
Pokemon: Just Mewtwo. Gen 5 has nothing Lucario tier and Gen 6 will miss the train.
FE: Roy most likely, Black Knight & Caeda are decent. FE13 will either miss the train/the lord looks dull
KI: Medusa, maybe Palutena, Magnus looks kind of cool
Animal Crossing: Sakurai canned Villager for Brawl. No point in discussing
New Series: Greater focus on than past games: Issac, Little Mac, Saki, Shulk, Takamaru,
Miis: Probably but hopefully not
3rd Parties: Snake/Sonic/Mega Man, Pac-Man barely came up/had no support until the Bandai Namco announcement

 

[Swamp Sensei]

And then and were last minute clones, so they shouldn't really count toward this.

Even if we include the clones, we still did pretty good.

was brought up quite a bit and as soon as she was revealed, people started predicting.

 

[PushDustIn]

I was awake for 23.5 hours in order to get the information to you guys. Sad I wasn't the one to post it.

 

[Burruni]

I was awake for 23.5 hours in order to get the information to you guys. Sad I wasn't the one to post it.

Push is the hero we want.
He's greater than the one we deserve.

 

[Schnee117]

So... Miiverse is in chaos right now.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/46syfz/psa_do_not_trust_anything_on_miiverse_right_now/)
Someone apparently released a tool that allows you to post any screenshot you want to Miiverse and a lot of people are using it to post things that shouldn't be allowed on there.

"Miiverse was a mistake. It's nothing but trash" - Kimishima

 

[Haze.]

You wanna know the absolute truly shoo-ins for Smash 5?


Here's a secret

Spoiler

remember when people were worried Falcon wasn't going to be in Smash 4? lmao

Spoiler

as if they could ever leave out this majestic being

 

[A Distant Demon]

KI: Medusa, maybe Palutena, Magnus looks kind of cool

The idea of Medusa being deemed more likely than Palutena and Magnus even being a possibility is such a crazy thought to me. How times have changed (for the better in this case)




References to RTC somehow had me wind up in the K rool thread the day of Corrin/Bayonetta reveal. Hoo boy hat is an interesting re-read.

Someone (from this thread nonetheless) spread some misinformation, salt, illogical arguments, people coming in just to make things worse, a few people actually okay with things, etc etc.

In some ways it's funny. In some ways it's sad. In some ways it's dissapointing.


At least it isn't like that anymore with DLC being over. Pretty much every fanbase improved after that day.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

So... Miiverse is in chaos right now.
(https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/46syfz/psa_do_not_trust_anything_on_miiverse_right_now/)
Someone apparently released a tool that allows you to post any screenshot you want to Miiverse and a lot of people are using it to post things that shouldn't be allowed on there.

Dis gun b good.

Even if we include the clones, we still did pretty good.

was brought up quite a bit and as soon as she was revealed, people started predicting.

People started predicting Dork Pot after the Palutena trailer. Admitadley, the DP predictions did kick into higher gear after Lucina's trailer.
Doesn't change the main point but still.

 

[Burruni]

"Miiverse was a mistake. It's nothing but trash" - Kimishima

Please.
Miiverse being a cesspool isn't anything new.

 

[FalKoopa]

I wouldn't really count Palutena, she was only considered likely by a few people up until Uprising's story leaked/anime fans started to get interested in the series, and a shoo-in once those leaked(?) pictures came out two years later. I still have this on my Swapnote app from an argument I got into with Medusa fans after Uprising leaked in November of that year.

View attachment 97982


It blew my mind to learn that everything shown about Uprising thus far in promotions was only around a 3rd of the game as a whole, and that the game was still 4-5 months away. lol

Little Mac, Miis, Mega Man, and technically Mewtwo were the only real conservative choices that made it in IMO.

Mario: No Newcomers (Rosalina/Jr./Dr. are the easiest cuts for the next game IMO)
DK: K.Rool or Dixie, neither are shoo-ins
Zelda: No Newcomers
Metroid: Ridley makes sense (fans were a lot less vocal then)
Kirby: No newcomers
Pokemon: Just Mewtwo. Gen 5 has nothing Lucario tier and Gen 6 will miss the train.
FE: Roy most likely, Black Knight & Caeda are decent. FE13 will either miss the train/the lord looks dull
KI: Medusa, maybe Palutena, Magnus looks kind of cool
Animal Crossing: Sakurai canned Villager for Brawl. No point in discussing
New Series: Greater focus on than past games: Issac, Little Mac, Saki, Shulk, Takamaru,
Miis: Probably but hopefully not
3rd Parties: Snake/Sonic/Mega Man, Pac-Man barely came up/had no support until the Bandai Namco announcement

Well, I did join in 2012, and I wasn't into Smash Speculation at all before joining here.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Someone (from this thread nonetheless)

Yes.

And that person should STOP doing that.

Please....

My heart can't take the pure venom that's caused by it.

 

[AreJay25]

This is what Miiverse was destined for

 

[A Distant Demon]

Yes.

And that person should STOP doing that.

Please....

My heart can't take the pure venom that's caused by it.

Wait someone is spreading misinformation here too?

Or are you saying I shouldn't have brought up going back to the K rool thread?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Wait someone is spreading misinformation here too?

Or are you saying I shouldn't have brought up going back to the K rool thread?

No.

I was agreeing that the someone you were referring to should stop the things he was doing.

I was agreeing.

 

[A Distant Demon]

No.

I was agreeing that the someone you were referring to should stop the things he was doing.

I was agreeing.

Oh. I think we're talking about different things then.

I think I know who you are talking about. . .but i'm talking about a member here who translated something incorrectly and spread it as if they knew what they were talking about in the K rool thread.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Oh. I think we're talking about different things then.

I think I know who you are talking about. . .but i'm talking about a member here who translated something incorrectly and spread it as if they knew what they were talking about in the K rool thread.

Oh.

Lol.

 

[epicmartin7]

They've gone too far.
(https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk7yjCGCw)

 

[Substitution]

This is what Miiverse was destined for

This.
This picture right here.
This describes everything wrong with Miiverse.
This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[A Distant Demon]

They've gone too far.
(https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk7yjCGCw)

No.


We haven't gone far enough.

 

[Solfiner]

They've gone too far.
(https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk7yjCGCw)

They were right, DLC wasn't over.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If any of you have social anxiety and some one suggests getting a job dealing with people to get over it

Don't.

Jobs dealing with people make it worse. All those bad things you think people are thinking about you...

They really are thinking bad things about you. These people hate you

 

[Wario Bros.]

Looks like I'm taking a break from Miiverse for a while (not like I was strongly active there in the first place).

 

[Yellowlord]

They've gone too far.
(https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk7yjCGCw)

Seeing stuff like that makes me dislike Miiverse even more than I already do.

 

[ChikoLad]

Mario: No Newcomers (Rosalina/Jr./Dr. are the easiest cuts for the next game IMO)

I don't see why you'd say this at all.

Jr. is the only one there who has any tangible reason to be cut, and that's because he was on the brink of being cut this time around (other than that he's pretty safe, that's the only kink in his armour). I can partly agree with this, on the basis that no other characters besides the clones and possibly Shulk were "close calls" or anything. But that may not mean anything by the time the next game rolls around.

Dr. Mario probably won't go anywhere since he's such an easy addition, and having been in two games now (and having been intended for Brawl), he seems like the one clone that's going to stay without any real question. Especially since Sakurai recognised that he was a fan favourite from Melee, and this was part of why he was included again.

Rosalina is the safest out of the whole roster (though that's not to say she's alone in that position, she's among the "not going anywhere" group). I already typed up an essay about this before with sources and everything since it seems to be a common misconception that she's going to be cut or that she's "flavour of the month". But to sum it up, she was one of the first characters mentioned in the initial presentation for the game, worked on, and complete enough to be presentable to the public (meaning she was high priority - by contrast, Bowser. Jr was low priority since he was dead last to be completed out of the base game roster's unique additions). She has featured as prominently as Mega Man in promotional material (the two of them are neck-in-neck for their representation in promotional material - that is, character posters, CGI trailer appearances, merchadise appearances - and Rosalina is even on the 3DS cover art, and the extended version of the Wii U cover art. Rosalina's poster was also one of the few made into real, collectible merchandise via Club Nintendo). So she definitely has marketability, even just specific to Smash (this will also continue due to her presence in the Smash 4 competitive community - love her or hate her, she's going to remain a prominent, dominant character in the scene and will be eternally recognisable to Smash fans because of this). And most of all, she's beloved. While hardcore speculators and certain members of the Smash community (like For Glory Warriors) hate her, they are a vocal minority. However, even within the Smash community, Rosalina still had a lot of support. Her Smashboards support thread was quite sizeable and active. But I don't think that matters, because Rosalina is immensely popular with the Nintendo fandom at large, so it doesn't matter if the Smash bubble doesn't like her. And in any case, the Miiverse post where Sakurai posted Rosalina's trailer is the second most "Yeah'd" post he made. Only second to the group photo of Mario, Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man (which is to be expected, because that was the most monumental part of the whole Smash hype train). Both posts are also the only posts to pass the 20,000 "Yeahs" mark. That's a tangible, genunie statistic Sakurai can look at to say "hey, people must really adore Rosalina out of all of the Nintendo newcomers I added. I'll keep her around".

And that's mostly me keeping things Smash specific. It'd be overkill for me to bring up that essay of mine that mentions everything else.

Rosalina pretty much isn't going anywhere within Smash or in Mario.

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

Takamaru, Geno, Viridi, K. Rool, Knuckles, Tails, Isabelle, and Ashley are among the characters I want to get out of the damn costumes next time. I know that only few will be lucky enough since Sakurai is an unpredictable guy (like Deadpool). Still freaking happy that Geno's got a mention and even Sakurai's got good taste in characters.

"Miiverse was a mistake. It's nothing but trash" - Kimishima

You're damn right it was a mistake. Even I have to agree with MtP on that one.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

This is what Miiverse was destined for

That brings me back...

 

[IceBreakerXY]

Yeah my support for dark pit started right after the palutena trailer.No way they wouldn't included him if he wasn't a playable character.Still remember the argument i got on 4chan about it

 

[Chandeelure]

So... they can post a picture about anything, and they are posting memes?
I'm kind of glad, because you know... some weirdo can post something really inappropiate and that site is full of kids.

 

[A Distant Demon]

And in any case, the Miiverse post where Sakurai posted Rosalina's trailer is the second most "Yeah'd" post he made.

You are using Miiverse as a form of evidence

I don'y even have to leave the page
(https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHk7yjCGCw)

They aren't exactly he kind of people I would use for . . .well anything to be honest.

 

[_Sheik]

Oh. I think we're talking about different things then.

I think I know who you are talking about. . .but i'm talking about a member here who translated something incorrectly and spread it as if they knew what they were talking about in the K rool thread.

Are you referring to me back in E3 2014 where demos of SSB3DS were playable and I reported that according to a friend, Galleom was set to appear in Smash Run? I thought he's a trustworthy guy so there was no reason for me to attack his statement at the time...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I saw Deadpool with 2 friends...

That was amazing! I don't think Marvel Studios would be allowed to do that kind of stuff, and it's already getting a sequel?! Can't wait! So much good ****. What makes it better is the thought of all the parents thinking 'durrrrrrr imma bring my 6 year old kid wit meh cuz zoopa gyros aren't R rated'