Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[powerprotoman]

oh we talking characters we like to see be revealed tomorrow? okay HUUUUUUUUUUU

Spoiler: in the intrest of not making a huge post the following characters have been posted in this spoiler

Jibanyan, Tetra, Impa, Wolf, krystal, wonder red, bayonetta, shantae, shovel knight, inklings, dixie, king k rool, pico, fiora, king hippo, mach rider, captian toad, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, young link, Banjo kazooie, rash, snake, raiden, G-red, knuckles, nights, alex kidd, pete(harvest moon), Soma Cruz, simon belmont, Alucard, rayman, Lloyd irving, Yu narukami, Ray01, Teddie, Akira, Knightmare, yoshimitsu, jin kazama, Achilies, Professor Layton, Issac, Sylux, Weavile, Bandana dee, Elma, papaer mario, lana, cia, volga, wizro, ninten, kumatora, bomberman,

and a pardrige in a pear tree!

so ya if anyone gets announced ill be happy

 

[Deleted member]

Oh ****! I forgot about the Ice Climbers!
Although, we know they won't happen because Sakurai has some stupid idea that the Wii U version NEEDS to have the same roster as the 3DS, it's ridiculous.

It's only stupid because it means you can't play as the Ice Climbers.

Otherwise, it makes a ****ton of sense.

 

[Dravidian]

Swamp. As much as I respect you, don't make me whack you upside the head.

Minecraft may be big, but to claim it's up there with those franchises?
No.

In terms of history, most certainly not.
Int erms of being recognizable, absolutely.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Swamp. As much as I respect you, don't make me whack you upside the head.

Minecraft may be big, but to claim it's up there with those franchises?
No.

You're right.

It's BIGGER.

Mega Man has sold around 30 million units.

Metal Gear Solid has sold around 40 million.

Pac-Man has sold around 44 million.

Street Fighter has sold 36 million.

Minecraft has sold 54 million.

Only Sonic and Nintendo franchises beat it.

The only franchises in Smash that beat it are Sonic, Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Wii and Donkey Kong.

And Minecraft is only about five years old. Golden that's absolutely astounding.

I know we as more classic gamers like to treat it as the new kid on the block but that new kid is a lot bigger than we give him credit for.

 

[Radical Bones]

I'll be stuck at work during the direct.


Whatever amount of alerts I'll have will probably spoil whoever might possibly get announced.

I just hope my alert box will be destroyed when I finally get back.

I'm turning my data off for the day.

Stupid work.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Look, I get the whole third party thing. But... I can't see Steve being in Smash Bros. At all.
Like, we do need to draw the line somewhere. It can't just be if you're a popular game then come right in. Right?

Shovel Knight may say high there...

 

[Khoru]

a Fable character (or 2? dunno how character driven that series is)

one character could represent the series pretty well
probably just the hero of oakvale

 

[Dravidian]

oh we talking characters we like to see be revealed tomorrow? okay HUUUUUUUUUUU

Spoiler: in the intrest of not making a huge post the following characters have been posted in this spoiler

Jibanyan, Tetra, Impa, Wolf, krystal, wonder red, bayonetta, shantae, shovel knight, inklings, dixie, king k rool, pico, fiora, king hippo, mach rider, captian toad, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Pichu, young link, Banjo kazooie, rash, snake, raiden, G-red, knuckles, nights, alex kidd, pete(harvest moon), Soma Cruz, simon belmont, Alucard, rayman, Lloyd irving, Yu narukami, Ray01, Teddie, Akira, Knightmare, yoshimitsu, jin kazama, Achilies, Professor Layton, Issac, Sylux, Weavile, Bandana dee, Elma, papaer mario, lana, cia, volga, wizro, ninten, kumatora, bomberman,

and a pardrige in a pear tree!

so ya if anyone gets announced ill be happy

I love Ray01 as well. He's in my top 10.
I'm still waiting for a new console Custom Robo.

 

[Substitution]

I can't see him being in Minecraft either.

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up...

 

[Deleted member]

You're right.

It's BIGGER.

Mega Man has sold around 30 million units.

Metal Gear Solid has sold around 40 million.

Pac-Man has sold around 44 million.

Street Fighter has sold 36 million.

Minecraft has sold 54 million.

Only Sonic and Nintendo franchises beat it.

And Minecraft is only about five years old. Golden that's absolutely astounding.

I know we as more classic gamers like to treat it as the new kid on the block but that new kid is a lot bigger than we give him credit for.

Well ****.

 

[Khoru]

Pac-Man has sold around 44 million.

Street Fighter has sold 36 million.

are these counting arcade sales though
because sf2 is kind of uh

higher

 

[Deleted member]

I think Sunset Overdrive, Fable, and Phantom Dust as well.

Actually, Insomniac owns the Sunset Overdrive IP.

 

[Starlight_Lily]

Oh ****! I forgot about the Ice Climbers!
Although, we know they won't happen because Sakurai has some stupid idea that the Wii U version NEEDS to have the same roster as the 3DS, it's ridiculous.

About Squirtle and Ivysaur though... They're cool, but they made the right choice when they cut Pokemon Trainer down to just Charizard. Charizard has more appeal than the other 2 combined.

Also, Young Link is obsolete because of Toon Link and Pichu is just terrible, keep that thing away from Smash 4 and any subsequent Smash.

No need to bring up Young Link and Pichu, I was only pointing out the ones with a unique moveset you missed out.

 

[PushDustIn]

Controversial opinion time:

I've been thinking about this since @--- made a comment about it...but we really need to fix the term "speculation" within the community.

"speculation", 85% of the time is synonymous with "wishlist with vague reasoning thrown in".

The fact that we as a community think that Banjo and Kazooie, characters from series that could be very well dead (last game was Nuts and Bolts) and would only market to fans in their twenties with nostalgia goggles on is seen as more likely than Steve--- a character from a multi-billion dollar game means there is something wrong with the way we approach "speculation".

I get it, I'd rather have Banjo and Kazooie in the game too. But if we are talking likelihood, and actually rate their chances then it they would score far less than Steve.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with wishlists but if you have a wishlist just present it as such. Speculation should be more about thinking than feeling. I know I'm guilty of this myself, and I'm trying to get better with it.

 

[Khoru]

oh yeah also microsoft owns ori
so maybe them too

 

[Swamp Sensei]

are these counting arcade sales though
because sf2 is kind of uh

higher

I'm using this.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_game_franchises

Even then, the only figures I can find for SF2 specifically state its around 25 million.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

It's only stupid because it means you can't play as the Ice Climbers.

Otherwise, it makes a ****ton of sense.

Um, no. If the dev team considered Wii U and 3DS to be completely different games (which based on interviews and things, they did) and the games had drastically different modes and stages, then why was it mandatory to have the exact same roster? It doesn't make sense, the games are different, the rosters should be able to be too.

 

[Dravidian]

Actually, Insomniac owns the Sunset Overdrive IP.

I see....
Microsoft Reaaaaally need to work on it's high-end first party library.

 

[Opossum]

Swamp. As much as I respect you, don't make me whack you upside the head.

Minecraft may be big, but to claim it's up there with those franchises?
No.

To be fair, he's definitely among the more notable characters. When you can find Steve costumes at Walmart during Halloween when you can't even find Mega Man or Ryu, it says something.


That and there's a ton of Minecraft merch. For a comparative new kid on the block, Steve's done well for himself. Hell, my Gamestop barely sell things that aren't Toys to Life figures or regular video games, but they carry Minecraft toys and diamond pick axe props. I'd argue Steve's more recognizable to the general public than a lot of other characters. Maybe that's just me, but eh.

 

[Senselessbreak]

Question to pass the time.

If you could have ANY video game character confirmed tomorrow, who would it be?

K Rool , Wolf or Banjo

 

[Deleted member]

Um, no. If the dev team considered Wii U and 3DS to be completely different games (which based on interviews and things, they did) and the games had drastically different modes and stages, then why was it mandatory to have the exact same roster? It doesn't make sense, the games are different, the rosters should be able to be too.

They are different games only in the literal sense.
They are still part of the same overall project.

The "drastically different" stages and modes reflect which part of the project the two games represented; Console vs. handheld.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

No need to bring up Young Link and Pichu, I was only pointing out the ones with a unique moveset you missed out.

Oh, I know. I just figured I should throw them in since every other veteran was accounted for.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Controversial opinion time:

I've been thinking about this since @--- made a comment about it...but we really need to fix the term "speculation" within the community.

"speculation", 85% of the time is synonymous with "wishlist with vague reasoning thrown in".

The fact that we as a community think that Banjo and Kazooie, characters from series that could be very well dead (last game was Nuts and Bolts) and would only market to fans in their twenties with nostalgia goggles on is seen as more likely than Steve--- a character from a multi-billion dollar game means there is something wrong with the way we approach "speculation".

I get it, I'd rather have Banjo and Kazooie in the game too. But if we are talking likelihood, and actually rate their chances then it they would score far less than Steve.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with wishlists but if you have a wishlist just present it as such. Speculation should be more about thinking than feeling. I know I'm guilty of this myself, and I'm trying to get better with it.

The whole Banjo Kazooie support came up when Microsoft tweeted they'd let Nintendo use the character if they wanted to

Banjo was on wishlist, but was considered a "no chance" character so didn't so much have support

 

[Neo Zero]

You guys need to stop relying on your own arbitrary rules so much. What you think subjectively about how big a franchise is or that it doenst fit in with Nintendo has no bearing on what the game devs think. If Sakurai wants a choice like Mine craft Steve it's because he sees potential and views them as an important part of video gaming history. That goes for any other third party character as well, not just the obvious ones people throw up all the time.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with wishlists but if you have a wishlist just present it as such. Speculation should be more about thinking than feeling. I know I'm guilty of this myself, and I'm trying to get better with it.

Not quite.

It should be both thinking and feeling in equal parts.

The feeling can give the thinking more ground to stand on. For example, popularity, a big factor, wouldn't mean anything without the feeling.

Plus, if we favor one over the other.

Things get very dull and argumentative.

Well those are my thoughts at least.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3sf0kv/what_the_internet_hates_about_the_tpp_trade_deal/

Welp apparently the final draft for the TPP is as bad as IP experts have feared in the past

 

[Deleted member]

You guys need to stop relying on your own arbitrary rules so much. What you think subjectively about how big a franchise is or that it doenst fit in with Nintendo has no bearing on what the game devs think. If Sakurai wants a choice like Mine craft Steve it's because he sees potential and views them as an important part of video gaming history. That goes for any other third party character as well, not just the obvious ones people throw up all the time.

So, Freddy Fazbear amirite?

 

[Khoru]

I'm using this.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Best_selling_game_franchises

Even then, the only figures I can find for SF2 specifically state its around 25 million.

wikipedia (which, afaict this wiki copies its list from) lists pac-man and sf2 as grossing over 2 billion dollars each
also further down that wikia page it has pac-man and street fighter above sanic
i assume those citations are reliable

 

[Shadowwolflink]

They are different games only in the literal sense.
They are still part of the same overall project.

The "drastically different" stages and modes reflect which part of the project the two games represented; Console vs. handheld.

The same could have been true for characters, there's no legitimate reason for that mindset, ESPECIALLY after they apparently had Ice Climbers almost finished.

 

[Deleted member]

I see....
Microsoft Reaaaaally need to work on it's high-end first party library.

What happened was that Insomniac wanted their own IP as opposed to the rights going to the publisher or someone else involved (see: most of their previous works such as Spyro and Ratchet) and Microsoft was the only company they negotiated with that allowed that to happen.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

wikipedia (which, afaict this wiki copies its list from) lists pac-man and sf2 as grossing over 2 billion dollars each
also further down that wikia page it has pac-man and street fighter above sanic
i assume those citations are reliable

Ah...

There's our problem.

I was talking units.

You're talking dollars.

 

[Deleted member]

The same could have been true for characters, there's no legitimate reason for that mindset, ESPECIALLY after they apparently had Ice Climbers almost finished.

Again, the only reason you even have an issue about it is because the Ice Climbers didn't make the cut.

Let's say that they had. Let's say the 3DS was more than capable of handling them as they were.
Would you even be saying having the same roster is stupid then? No. You wouldn't.
Unless you really think taking a select number of characters and making them system-exclusives is a good idea, in which case I don't know what to say.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ah...

There's our problem.

I was talking units.

You're talking dollars.

Well, Minecraft was a lot cheaper to buy than Mario games

 

[Khoru]

Ah...

There's our problem.

I was talking units.

You're talking dollars.

hehe

although, in fairness, i don't really feel like "iconicness" is something necessarily quantifiable by sales or somesuch
it's a decent metric for exposure but

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I will say.

I find it hypocritical when people attack the "fan rules."

It's always fun when they get broken, don't get me wrong.

But you guys always fall back on them shortly after.


It's funny to me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is literally the first time I've EVER eaten ramen without egg in it

and it's super weird

Ramen NEEDS egg

 

[Senselessbreak]

So the whole minecraft/microsoft on nintendo reminds me..........what is up with the windows logo in mario maker?!?!?!?!?

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Again, the only reason you even have an issue about it is because the Ice Climbers didn't make the cut.

Let's say that they had. Let's say the 3DS was more than capable of handling them as they were.
Would you even be saying having the same roster is stupid then? No. You wouldn't.
Unless you really think taking a select number of characters and making them system-exclusives is a good idea, in which case I don't know what to say.

It's not about whether I would play Ice Climbers or not (I never really used them before, but I have friends who did), the point is that the technically superior game was held back by hardware limitations of a far less powerful system. Nothing about that feels right, and why exactly do you think it's so wrong for a better version of a game that came out later to have more content? That's a common occurrence these days.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is literally the first time I've EVER eaten ramen without egg in it

and it's super weird

Ramen NEEDS egg

I don't think I've ever eaten it with egg.

Sounds delicious.

 

[Dravidian]

Found a wikpedia list of Microsoft owned franchises.
The most notable ones are:

Spoiler

• Viva Pinata
• Age of Empires
• Zoo Tycoon
• Wizards and Warriors
• BattleToads
• Blue Dragon
• Crackdown
• Forza (probably not happening)
• Project Gotham Racing (also not happening)
• Quantum Break
• Conker
• Fable
• Gears of War
• Halo
• Killer Instinct
• Infinite Undiscovery
• Jet Force Gemini
• Lost Oddysey
• Max series
• Kameo
• Ori
• Phantom Dust
• Scale Bound
• Shadow Run
• Blinxx

We, as a whole, keep ignoring a lot of Microsofts franchises saying that a different company (that they happen to own) made the ip. It's kinda a pointless differentiation imo. Microsoft owns them so they should be viable candidates of a microsoft fighter or crossover.