Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[ChikoLad]

Mephiles actually was interesting as a character, though. Albeit, his story stuff was pretty bland. At least the voice acting was good. Black Doom was entertaining. Same with Silver for other reasons. Those guys... eh, they weren't even as interesting.

Sega did a pretty bad job with the Deadly Six. It didn't help they tried to shoehorn 6 new main villains in at once. They did a better job with other games mostly cause they didn't overdo it.

Mephiles wasn't interesting, he was basically a Mary Sue.

At least the Deadly Six are kinda funny sometimes.

And gave way for Sonic to lay the odd sick burn.

 

[NintenZ]

Yeah, you're just proving my point. Very minor (i.e. you have to go really out of your way for like ****ing with the Home Screen of all things, or it has very little to no impeding effect on progress).

Compare it to the Adventure games where their core gameplay is bugged out.



That was patched out really quickly, along with a bunch of other bugs, and even general design criticisms.

Contrary to popular belief, Sonic Team do listen.

Hell, people complain about Lost World not being as fast as Generations (even though it's still about Adventure speed), but that choice in itself was them listening to complaints about Generations, Colours, and Unleashed.

That was two months after the game's launch, and it was still a glaring bug, even if it was eventually removed.

 

[Fenriraga]

Yeah, you're just proving my point. Very minor (i.e. you have to go really out of your way for like ****ing with the Home Screen of all things, or it has very little to no impeding effect on progress).

Compare it to the Adventure games where their core gameplay is bugged out.



That was patched out really quickly, along with a bunch of other bugs, and even general design criticisms.

Contrary to popular belief, Sonic Team do listen.

Hell, people complain about Lost World not being as fast as Generations (even though it's still about Adventure speed), but that choice in itself was them listening to complaints about Generations, Colours, and Unleashed.

Just because you can ignore them doesn't mean they aren't there. Still plenty of glitches that **** with you too. And for the record, I've had Lost world bug out on me more than Adventure ever did. Dreamcast anyway.

Defense like this is exactly the problem with Sonic Fans these days, I'm sorry. Structually, Lost World is a bad game. Not the worst, but bad. The reviews speak for themselves.

 

[ChikoLad]

That was two months after the game's launch, and it was still a glaring bug, even if it was eventually removed.

It's irrelevant now, if it's already been patched out.

Or shall I call Smash 3DS an unacceptable game for banning Peach players for no reason at launch?

Or Smash Wii U **** for the glitches that arose with the Mewtwo DLC that prevented people from going online and also deleted their record data?

Just because you can ignore them doesn't mean they aren't there. Still plenty of glitches that **** with you too. And for the record, I've had Lost world bug out on me more than Adventure ever did. Dreamcast anyway.

Defense like this is exactly the problem with Sonic Fans these days, I'm sorry. Structually, Lost World is a bad game. Not the worst, but bad. The reviews speak for themselves.

Your hyperbole isn't an argument either. Saying "I had Lost World bug out on me more" literally means nothing. Prove it. Record a video of these game breaking bugs.

Hell I have found two bugs in Wii U Lost World, one of which I recorded, and I haven't seen them anywhere. Both are very minor and effect nothing though. I would call them exploits more than anything honestly.

The difference is that the Adventure games have more bugs that the average player will find and are more inherent to the game's mechanics.

I say this even though I like the first Adventure game more than Lost World. It's the most buggy of the three games we are mentioning.

 

[Substitution]

Okay.

For the record, this is longer than both his Adventure AND 06 episodes. And he only covers DX glitches for Adventure.

...So, you're basing your logic on one guy who made a couple videos (and just one guy) even though there are a plethora of videos all around Youtube detailing Adventure's and '06's glitches in full detail?

Okay.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Krang 100% confirmed

He's in the super bowl ad

 

[Fenriraga]

...So, you're basing your logic on one guy who made a couple videos (and just one guy) even though there are a plethora of videos all around Youtube detailing Adventure's and '06's glitches in full detail?

Okay.

No, I'm basing my logic on my own experience. Pre patch, post patch AND Steam. The argument that Lost world is a sound game is baffling to me.

Oh god Pre Patch Lost World, god help me...

 

[Strofirko]

In irrelevant news I was checking all the buzz about this "pixelmon" minecraft mod.
It seems cool,have a good concept and complex a very big team behind it,but for me had a gigantic interest killer.
The atrocious clash of the full 3D models with the cubic style of minecraft,even with that not all the pokemon on the mod was fully converted on 3D,getting terrible model comparisons sometimes.

 

[NintenZ]

It's irrelevant now, if it's already been patched out.

Or shall I call Smash 3DS an unacceptable game for banning Peach players for no reason at launch?

Or Smash Wii U **** for the glitches that arose with the Mewtwo DLC that prevented people from going online and also deleted their record data?

Difference is that those patches literally came days later.

(And this is minor, but Nintendo also gave out apologies)

 

[Fenriraga]

The Smash 4 issues were small oversights that the team didn't consider. While annoying, they fixed each as quickly as they could within a week at the latest.

Lost World took months to get patched, and while listening to fan feedback is appriciated, No other Sonic Game has ever needed that level of gameplay adjustments (100 Rings for a life, Wisps without gamepad controls, irregular gameplay elements, screwing you over with the animal counter padding unless you were doing a Red Ring Run). The core game, as they released it, was flawed.

 

[ChikoLad]

The Smash 4 issues were small oversights that the team didn't consider. While annoying, they fixed each as quickly as they could within a week at the latest.

Lost World took months to get patched, and while listening to fan feedback is appriciated, No other Sonic Game has ever needed that level of gameplay adjustments. The core game, as they released it, was flawed.

This is the biggest stretch I have seen in a while.

How is "literally deleting data and not allowing players to play modes safely" equivalent to "small oversights", especially when they are completely naturally found? I don't care about when it was patched, you were the one who compared the severity of the glitches themselves here.

Yet you go and act as if a glitch in Lost World, like that Home Screen Wisp glitch (seriously, you have to go SO out of your way for that. It was originally found by a speedrunner, IIRC), is "game breaking and ruins the game"?

Hell, the latter is something you can have some fun with at least, and once again, is fairly inconsequential. The former completely cuts people off from the game.

Your severe anti-Sonic bias is showing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The Smash 4 issues were small oversights that the team didn't consider. While annoying, they fixed each as quickly as they could.

Lost World took months to get patched, and while listening to fan feedback is appriciated, No other Sonic Game has ever needed that level of gameplay adjustments. The core game, as they released it, was flawed.

06 I vastly enjoyed. It's still flawed as hell and lacks a crapload of polish.

Heck, it had maybe one actual glitch you didn't go out of your way for(the rest are exploits of the game's own engine, which is why characters stuck to walls), and that's Shadow's bugged homing attack. If that can even be called a glitch.

Lost World was blatantly flawed as a game with tons of issues, a lack of polish, fairly one-not villains(jeez, even Mephiles wasn't one-note. He was able to consistently be deranged, and yet completely manipulative. Black Doom was, but he made up for it with entertaining dialogue and emotion. And barely one-note at that).

Frankly, trying to make six main villains in one game was a terrible idea. Of course they aren't going to be fleshed out at all. That needs time. It's easy to flesh out characters with their own storylines(DX did a fairly good job with all the playable characters, when it bothered, since Big got nothing of note).

 

[Fenriraga]

This is the biggest stretch I have seen in a while.

How is "literally deleting data and not allowing players to play modes safely" equivalent to "small oversights", especially when they are completely naturally found? I don't care about when it was patched, you were the one who compared the severity of the glitches themselves here.

Yet you go and act as if a glitch in Lost World, like that Home Screen Wisp glitch (seriously, you have to go SO out of your way for that. It was originally found by a speedrunner, IIRC), is "game breaking and ruins the game"?

Hell, the latter is something you can have some fun with at least, and once again, is fairly inconsequential. The former completely cuts people off from the game.

Your severe anti-Sonic bias is showing.

And your severe pro-Sonic bias is showing, Mr "Sonic" Brawler. :/

The video was a bad example, I admit. But if you seriously think the programming in Lost World is sound, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[SegaNintendoUbisoft]

Sonic Runners was my go to mobile game until the patch hit, thankfully Rayman Adventures took it's place.

In other Sonic news, Bob Rafei of Big Red Button reflects on Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric, and we also have a couple words from Iizuka.
http://nintendoeverything.com/big-r...rise-of-lyric-sega-on-sonics-future-and-more/

This quote in particular stood out to me.

“When you buy a Sonic game, we want you to see that Sega logo on the package and know that you’re getting a great experience. Ideally, I want Sonic to be a character loved both by people who play games and by those who don’t.” – Takashi Iizuka, the current head of Sonic Team

I'm hoping Sega keeps their word and promises to improve.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Everyone is talking about Sonc Lost World and how it's good/bad.


And i am just standing here, being the only one in this world to have liked Sonic Chronicle: The Dark Brotherhood.

Yeah i know, i am a really weird person for liking a game like this. But hey, for me, it was fun and the story was decent. (It's not the best story that Sonic game ever made but atleast the vilain and the presentation are good in my opinion.)

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I never played it so I have no idea if it's good

 

[Kirby Dragons]

Sonic's downfall sure was inevitable with all of the nasty games coming out.

 

[BandanaWaddleDee]

Sonic's downfall sure was inevitable with all of the nasty games coming out.

What?

 

[NintenZ]

This is the biggest stretch I have seen in a while.

How is "literally deleting data and not allowing players to play modes safely" equivalent to "small oversights", especially when they are completely naturally found? I don't care about when it was patched, you were the one who compared the severity of the glitches themselves here.

Yet you go and act as if a glitch in Lost World, like that Home Screen Wisp glitch (seriously, you have to go SO out of your way for that. It was originally found by a speedrunner, IIRC), is "game breaking and ruins the game"?

Hell, the latter is something you can have some fun with at least, and once again, is fairly inconsequential. The former completely cuts people off from the game.

Your severe anti-Sonic bias is showing.

Anti-Sonic bias?

By this logic I must have Anti-Kirby bias because I didn't like how much of a departure Epic Yarn was, see how this doesn't work?

 

[Strofirko]

Both sides are overreacting here.

 

[NintenZ]

Both sides are overreacting here.

I fail to see how, please elaborate.

 

[Frostwraith]

Saw some Ganondorf talk... And I think I know why Ganondorf has such silly over-the-top angry expressions in Smash 3DS/Wii U.

You see, I've always had the feeling that they based his face rigging on Little Mac's. A lot of characters do share some animations and model attributes, even if they aren't clones (for example, some of Robin's hit animations are based on Marth's). Asset recycling is a common practice in development as it saves on resources and fastens the process.

You may think this is begging for a photoshopped Little Mac joke, but tell me what do you think about these:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

There are some similarities, aren't there? Even the big eyes are similar.

 

[NintenZ]

Saw some Ganondorf talk... And I think I know why Ganondorf has such silly over-the-top angry expressions in Smash 3DS/Wii U.

You see, I've always had the feeling that they based his face rigging on Little Mac's. A lot of characters do share some animations and model attributes, even if they aren't clones (for example, some of Robin's hit animations are based on Marth's). Asset recycling is a common practice in development as it saves on resources and fastens the process.

You may think this is begging for a photoshopped Little Mac joke, but tell me what do you think about these:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

There are some similarities, aren't there? Even the big eyes are similar.

"Good lord was Ganondorf's development rushed?

Cause when I see that jaw I can't help but think that."

Is what I usually think.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Saw some Ganondorf talk... And I think I know why Ganondorf has such silly over-the-top angry expressions in Smash 3DS/Wii U.

You see, I've always had the feeling that they based his face rigging on Little Mac's. A lot of characters do share some animations and model attributes, even if they aren't clones (for example, some of Robin's hit animations are based on Marth's). Asset recycling is a common practice in development as it saves on resources and fastens the process.

You may think this is begging for a photoshopped Little Mac joke, but tell me what do you think about these:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

There are some similarities, aren't there? Even the big eyes are similar.

Woah...Now that you talk about it and that you are showing image. It's actually really legit....
Well, i have atleast learn one thing today that i didn't know.
#TheMoreYouKnow
But coming from the man who have writted really great article on Smash, i only expected that.

 

[ChikoLad]

And your severe pro-Sonic bias is showing, Mr "Sonic" Brawler. :/

The video was a bad example, I admit. But if you seriously think the programming in Lost World is sound, I don't know what to tell you.

You have literally done nothing to convince me that it's not more polished than most other 3D Sonic games though. You merely posted a video of some random, minor glitches you have to search for (also for comparison, this guy's Sonic '06 glitch video is only 4 MINUTES LONG...yeah, he's not a good reference for comaparing these games), and merely said you had more bugs for you show up in the game, without proving it or even elaborating on it.

And no I'm not biased. I acknowledge the flaws Lost World has. Hell, there was nobody ranting about the PC port more than I was for how awful it was (and it baffles me that review sites call it a "decent port"), I can't even run the game properly because of it's problems. I even posted GIFs of glitches I was getting in the PC version caused by forcing certain frame rate settings (which I HAD to do to make the game playable). And there was a screenshot of the game's graphics settings (which are poor), that got spread like wildfire on Twitter and various Sonic sties, and it was MY screenshot. Literally the first thing I did when I got the game was post this and spread it:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And hell, here's that glitch I recorded in the Wii U version. Well, images of it, since I'm not bothered uploading the video (it was supposed to be part of a full 100% commentary I was doing for the game, but nobody really watched the first part so I scrapped it after that. I'd have to re-render it to just upload the video and I'm not doing that just for a forum post like this. But the fact I was going to have stuff like this in the commentary should show you I'm not shy to the game's flaws):

Spoiler

I know how to get out of bounds in the first level. Collision is all weird in this section, and also, for some reason, the ground is classed as "water" because it splashes when you land on it:

The other glitch I know of that I haven't seen anyone else mention is getting really far out of bounds in one of the multiplayer stages. I might record it sometime, I don't think people would really care though.

So yeah, I'm not biased, you just aren't making a compelling argument at all.

Hell, hate to come across as arrogant, but at this point, I'm doing more for your point than even you are.

Anti-Sonic bias?

By this logic I must have Anti-Kirby bias because I didn't like how much of a departure Epic Yarn was, see how this doesn't work?

He has an anti-Sonic bias as he often claims the games have more objective flaws than they do just because he didn't personally like the games for more subjective reasons. Happens all of the time in this thread, he refuses to see the good in anything he doesn't personally like and finds opinions he doesn't agree with "laughable".

As I have just demonstrated.

 

[Frostwraith]

Good lord was Ganondorf's development rushed?

Cause when I see that jaw I can't help but think that.

Signs point that Ganondorf was probably among the last characters done for the base game, so I think it's possible that he may have been somewhat rushed this time.

His model does contain some issues such as his headgear and eyebrows not being properly attached to the face, something that carries over to Kirby's Ganondorf hat. This is less of an issue on the 3DS version, though.

It would also explain why they didn't do any significant changes to his moveset even though there's every reason to do so and plenty of other characters also got them.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Signs point that Ganondorf was probably among the last characters done for the base game, so I think it's possible that he may have been somewhat rushed this time.

His model does contain some issues such as his headgear and eyebrows not being properly attached to the face, something that carries over to Kirby's Ganondorf hat. This is less of an issue on the 3DS version, though.

It would also explain why they didn't do any significant changes to his moveset even though there's every reason to do so and plenty of other characters also got them.

Ganondorf seem to be always the character that is developped at the end. Does some article about Brawl mention if Ganondorf was like, before Sonic, Wolf, Etc...One of the last character developped? Or there is other hint about it?

 

[NintenZ]

You have literally done nothing to convince me that it's not more polished than most other 3D Sonic games though. You merely posted a video of some random, minor glitches you have to search for (also for comparison, this guy's Sonic '06 glitch video is only 4 MINUTES LONG...yeah, he's not a good reference for comaparing these games), and merely said you had more bugs for you show up in the game, without proving it or even elaborating on it.

And no I'm not biased. I acknowledge the flaws Lost World has. Hell, there was nobody ranting about the PC port more than I was for how awful it was (and it baffles me that review sites call it a "decent port"), I can't even run the game properly because of it's problems. I even posted GIFs of glitches I was getting in the PC version caused by forcing certain frame rate settings (which I HAD to do to make the game playable). And there was a screenshot of the game's graphics settings (which are poor), that got spread like wildfire on Twitter and it was MY screenshot. Literally the first thing I did when I got the game was post this and spread it:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

And hell, here's that glitch I recorded in the Wii U version. Well, images of it, since I'm not bothered uploading the video (it was supposed to be part of a full 100% commentary I was doing for the game, but nobody really watched the first part so I scrapped it after that. I'd have to re-render it to just upload the video and I'm not doing that just for a forum post like this. But the fact I was going to have stuff like this in the commentary should show you I'm not shy to the game's flaws):

Spoiler

I know how to get out of bounds in the first level. Collision is all weird in this section, and also, for some reason, the ground is classed as "water" because it splashes when you land on it:

The other glitch I know of is getting really far out of bounds in one of the multiplayer stages. I might record it sometime, I don't think people would really care though.

So yeah, I'm not biased, you just aren't making a compelling argument at all.

Hell, hate to come across as arrogant, but at this point, I'm doing more for your point than even you are.



He has an anti-Sonic bias as he often claims the games have more objective flaws than they do just because he didn't personally like the games for more subjective reasons. Happens all of the time in this thread, he refuses to see the good in anything he doesn't personally like and finds opinions he doesn't agree with "laughable".

As I have just demonstrated.

That's not bias though but an opinion ...

You don't have to agree with him.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ganondorf seem to be always the character that is developped at the end. Does some article about Brawl mention if Ganondorf was like, before Sonic, Wolf, Etc...One of the last character developped? Or there is other hint about it?

We don't know a lot about Ganondorf in Brawl, but he definitely doesn't seem rushed there, given they did overhaul his animations a lot and introduced a new special move.

In Melee, he was the very last character added to the game.

 

[ChikoLad]

That's not bias though but an opinion ...

You don't have to agree with him.

Bias is when you refuse to acknowledge the objective due to your overly strong subjective opinion.

Like he is doing.

It's OK if he doesn't like the games, I don't really care. But spreading misinformation to try and make things look worse than they are, and then calling other people biased randomly when he is called out on it (even though I have more than proven I am not), is getting annoying. It isn't just with Sonic, it's with anything he has a strong distaste for. Even the idea of someone wanting to better a fandom.

People here really need to learn the difference between "good and bad" and "I like/dislike".

EDIT: In hindsight I feel like I got a bit harsh here and in the other posts. I apologise for being a goon, Fenriraga .

I'll just try to keep quiet from now on.

 

[Burruni]

Signs point that Ganondorf was probably among the last characters done for the base game, so I think it's possible that he may have been somewhat rushed this time.

His model does contain some issues such as his headgear and eyebrows not being properly attached to the face, something that carries over to Kirby's Ganondorf hat. This is less of an issue on the 3DS version, though.

It would also explain why they didn't do any significant changes to his moveset even though there's every reason to do so and plenty of other characters also got them.

One thing to note.
"Plenty?"
got 3 specials changed got a overhaul alongside to a lesser extent.
But besides that?
one new special move.
had his default stance better fixed but his actual moveset's 1-1 last I checked.
7 new Final Smashes.
Forward Smash.
a more fitting dash attack.

Maybe I'm just being particular about word choice but "plenty" and "significant" changes to characters' movesets for the base game.

 

[Frostwraith]

One thing to note.
"Plenty?"
got 3 specials changed got a overhaul alongside to a lesser extent.
But besides that?
one new special move.
had his default stance better fixed but his actual moveset's 1-1 last I checked.
7 new Final Smashes.
Forward Smash.
a more fitting dash attack.

Maybe I'm just being particular about word choice but "plenty" and "significant" changes to characters' movesets for the base game.

Maybe I did exaggerate a little bit, but I hope my point still comes across.

 

[Metal Shop X]

We don't know a lot about Ganondorf in Brawl, but he definitely doesn't seem rushed there, given they did overhaul his animations a lot and introduced a new special move.

In Melee, he was the very last character added to the game.

I knowned about Ganondorf being the last character that made into Melee. (Which is explain alot about his design and his Shrek face.) Thanks to various video and website about it.

Still, i feel like Ganonodrf was still kinda rushed with Brawl. Not because he is considered the worst character in the game, but because there is something like a error in Ganondorf Fair that make that he can't auto-cancel in a short hop. Despise that it was intented. (Tough DK Fair suffer the same problem in both Melee and Brawl)

 

[Burruni]

Maybe I did exaggerate a little bit, but I hope my point still comes across.

I was just making sure I didn't actually forgot about more changes were made that I couldn't recall or thought they were in Melee-Brawl.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I thought this was the NintenZone Social, a place that I haven't visited in a very long time, but then I realized the lack of "Swamp" in the thread's title...

Am I really in the right place?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

To this very day, I still can't take the faces he make serious. Especially this thing.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I thought this was the NintenZone Social, a place that I haven't visited in a very long time, but then I realized the lack of "Swamp" in the thread's title...

Am I really in the right place?

That's actually what i thinked when i have see the title.
#BringTheSwampBack
It's like a night without star, it's OK but it's not beautiful without it.

To this very day, I still can't take the faces he make serious. Especially this thing.

The true reason why Ganondorf is a low tier. /s

 

[NintenZ]

I thought this was the NintenZone Social, a place that I haven't visited in a very long time, but then I realized the lack of "Swamp" in the thread's title...

Am I really in the right place?

You may wanna ask our ruler Possie about that one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's actually what i thinked when i have see the title.
#BringTheSwampBack
It's like a night without star, it's OK but it's not beautiful without it.

#BringBackSwampSenpai

 

[AreJay25]

To this very day, I still can't take the faces he make serious. Especially this thing.

What makes it even better is that it's the face for his up taunt. AKA the one where he does his evil laugh.

That does not look like an evil laugh face.