Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Bedoop]

If Mario in a lab coat can get his own slot, then so can Daisy!

memoryman3 or Raheem the Dream?
Not sure which is more obsessed with their character.

 

[Champ Gold]

Man, the sole fact that how memoryman3 brings up Daisy so much and how people are complaining seems so familiar


It's like we are doing the same thing that we did to @Geno Boost when it came to Geno

 

[A Distant Demon]

If Mario in a lab coat can get his own slot, then so can Daisy!

At least "Mario in a lab coat" got his own series

memoryman3 or Raheem the Dream?
Not sure which is more obsessed with their character.

Raheem. Not even a question

 

[BluePikmin11]

memoryman3 I think you need to calm down with Daisy, constantly posting with Daisy only makes things worse, it makes people have less of a chance of supporting her. That's not the way to approach it. It's only going to give you a permanent negative outlook.

 

[Kenith]

You should be.
He's brought up in the past that he literally gets anxiety the longer he doesn't say something about her.

Well that IS concerning.

Also.
Sheik isn't going to be an alt of Impa in the future.
At most, it will be the other way around. Sheik came first.

 

[wedl!!]

Is there even an argument for removing Bayo though? I'd like to hear it.

Because Nintendo obviously likes the franchise, and she was the most popular new character. Like what.

 

[Con0rrrr]

Memoryman3 got banned from the Nintendo subreddit because he couldn't stop posting **** about Daisy.

He actually has an issue. And I'd rather us make him stop posting all this Daisy stuff. Because if mods don't do anything, he will not stop. He's that obsessed.

You all know I think Daisy is a stupid excuse for a character and that any mention of her is an actual waste of human existence. But that isn't the point.

This guy will not stop talking about Daisy ever to the point of delusion.

 

[Kenith]

Is there even an argument for removing Bayo though? I'd like to hear it.

Because Nintendo obviously likes the franchise, and she was the most popular new character. Like what.

"the most popular new character" (of realizable inclusions).
#1 in Europe. #5 in US.
While I trust Sakurai and take this mostly at face value, people use this to say she's like in 30th place and everyone else was veterans and WTF 3rd parties like Goku just to find proof that she isn't popular at all.

 

[Substitution]

People should stop bringing up things that are not related to the current discussion, it just comes as a shameless plug
Btw, have you heard about out lord and savior Etrian Odyssey? I think you all should play it!

I know right! What kind of heartless soul would do such a thing?

 

[Kenith]

I know right! What kind of heartless soul would do such a thing?

Substitute: A true friend.
Literally exists to take the bullet for you.

 

[Khoru]

review embargo for the witness ended
it's getting near-universal praise, with the dissenters... not understanding that puzzle games are about puzzles
i'm pretty hyped
i was really really bad at fez and la-mulana though sooo

 

[ChikoLad]

Eh, I'd argue that she was. It was the whole Mario 3D World burst of popularity and relevance that pushed her over the edge imo. Prior to that she was about on equal terms with Daisy in terms of series importance (spinoff fodder and as a minor part in each's respective first game), and we know that's not done Daisy herself any favors. All Rosalina really had over Daisy before the Mario 3D World thing was recency.

I could easily see her falling by the wayside if a new face starts to get popular. Bowser Jr.'s recently been missing quite a lot of the spinoffs and main games that he used to be a staple for, which is almost definitely due to the resurgence of the Koopalings, who are everywhere now. All it'd take is for a new similarly popular character to show up and be the next big deal and I could easily see Rosalina being put on the backburner. With the amount of games he's been showing up in, I wouldn't be surprised if Nabbit was the next one to go the distance like Rosalina did. A relatively minor character who against all odds lands a playable slot in a big game (in Nabbit's case New Super Luigi U) and steadily gains popularity from there.

Also in no way is she an icon or a main character of Mario games in the slightest. She's in the spinoffs and is a post-game bonus in one Mario game, sure, but a franchise main character she is not. Her credentials thus far are: hubworld host aka Mario's taxi driver in SMG1 (a minor role, and no the storybook doesn't count because it doesn't factor into the actual game's plot at all), a cameo in SMG2, playable in a gaggle of spinoffs (and all the games she's in Daisy is in as well, so that's a moot point), and her one actual claim to Mario game fame is still only as a bonus you don't get until AFTER beating the main game. People could beat all of SM3DW's main game and never know she's in the game at all.

I'll agree with you on the new FE characters (iffy on Corrin, but we'll have to see how they're received first), hence why I listed them as more likely to be cut, but Shulk is the main character of a critically acclaimed game that now has an even more critically acclaimed sequel. If the Xenoblade franchise progresses as I expect it to, then each game will have different protags and plot and everything, meaning that just as how Marth is to Fire Emblem, Shulk is to the Xenoblade franchise. Both are the protagonists that kicked off the whole series, which to Sakurai, clearly means enough to keep Marth around well past his expiration date, and I'd wager he'd feel the same way about Shulk.

However, despite all of this, I do think she's more likely than not to actually stay in Smash. She's the safest of the five I listed easily. Her popularity still is flourishing to this day, so there's no way she's going anywhere anytime soon, at the very least not from the spinoff games. I'm not saying she's definitely going to be cut or that I want her cut (despite my dislike of Rosalina, she's got a really unique moveset, and I strongly feel that "Once a Smash Brother, Always a Smash Brother... except for Dark Pit") All I was saying is that I can definitely imagine a scenario in which she could be low priority and get cut for that reason.

Let me explain in detail why your theory is without much merit then, based on objective facts (and before anyone tells me I'm a biased Rosalina fan, I'm not. I'm one of her biggest fans but since I've loved the character from day one, I've always tried to research the facts and trivia about her as much as possible. You guys know how much I hate misinformation on the character):

Spoiler

Is Rosalina in Smash because of her "recent push" within the Mario series?
The Smash 4 initial roster was finalised at the beginning of development, so around 2011/2012 (I won't source to this one because a simple Google search of "smash bros roster finalized" will give you a ton of sources, not to mention it's a pretty well known fact in the community at this point), meaning Rosalina was set in stone to be in the game from the beginning. The fact she was the first newcomer reveal past the initial reveal trailer for the game also means she was one of the first new characters in a presentable state, so work started on her sooner rather than later. She was also much higher priority than Bowser. Jr (the character the community viewed as "more likely" and "more iconic"), as Bowser. Jr was on "the brink of being cut", according to Sakurai, and almost did not make it into the game.

However, the decision to add Rosalina to 3D World (the start of her so called push, even according to you) was actually made late in development (i.e. early to mid 2013, since the game released late into 2013) of that game, according to the Iwata Asks interview for the game - specifically, she was specifically put in the game as a "pleasing post-game bonus":

Motokura

I was thinking about what would be pleasing after the ending and wanted to bring in another female character in addition to Princess Peach. Rosalina has a following among the Super Mario Galaxy fanbase, and she's appeared in Mario Kart recently, so I think she's well known.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/3

So there you have it. Rosalina's inclusion in Smash and Rosalina's inclusion in 3D World, are completely unrelated. The Smash inclusion happened first from a developmental standpoint (which is what's truly relevant, not the release schedule standpoint).

They may say "check Rosalina out in Super Mario 3D World" on her character page on the Smash 4 website and the Smash reveal may have been timed to come out soon after 3D World release date, but this would have been a decision made in hindsight (possibly by the marketing division, or by Sakurai himself after he found out about Rosalina being in 3D World), and doesn't speak for why she was originally included in Smash. The same can be said for a lot of other characters (like how Sonic's page says to check out Sonic Lost World - these character pages just give you the character's upcoming game if it's applicable to them, and it was with Rosalina. It doesn't mean those games were the reason for their inclusion).

Did 3D World "burst Rosalina's popularity"?
No. It would have maybe made a younger generation know her a little more at most, or people who happened to jump back into Mario in 3D World. However, both situations are an extreme minority, since 3D World released on one of Nintendo's worst selling systems, meaning while the game is a success on the Wii U, it's hardly comparable to past Mario games in terms of how well it did, selling only 4.47 million units as of September 30th, 2015. By contrast, Super Mario Galaxy has sold 12.59 million units as of September 30th, 2015, which also makes Super Mario Galaxy the best selling 3D Mario platformer (going by initial release sales - re-release aren't counted since A) we don't have the figures for those other than SM64DS, and B) most people who purchase re-releases, and especially remakes that add new content like SM64DS, are people who love the original and want easier access to it in future generations of consoles, or just a new way to play it). 3D World didn't receive near the amount of critical praise as Galaxy (commonly touted as one of the best games of all time, just like Ocarina of Time), due to not being near as revolutionary (despite being a really solid game, a lot better than Galaxy from a game mechanics standpoint in my personal opinion). Rosalina also had Galaxy 2 to boost her recognisability, since a lot of people jumped into that game first when they missed the first game (as it isn't required to play Galaxy to enjoy it's sequel and from a gameplay perspective it came off as more exciting).

So basically, people who played 3D World, probably already played Galaxy and knew who Rosalina was. We don't have any objective evidence to say it bursted her popularity at all, considering the Wii U and 3D World was mostly picked up by people who were already dedicated to Nintendo and Mario games from the Wii and prior.

Is Rosalina an iconic main cast member of Mario now, or is she just simple spin-off fodder that's slightly better off than Daisy or Waluigi?
The former, easily.

Rosalina isn't at all comparable to Daisy (and Waluigi but I will use Daisy since you mentioned her), for a few reasons, some of which I'll mention:

-Daisy did not debut in a mainline game. As much as people try to say Super Mario Land is a mainline game, it isn't, because it wasn't made by Nintendo EAD, and Miyamoto had literally no involvement in it or knowledge of it's creation until it was near completion. Literally the only carry over from past games into this game, is Mario himself as a result of this, as Gunpei Yokoi couldn't use any of Miyamoto's material without his sanction (Mario being an exception since he's just the mascot of Nintendo in general even if Miyamoto created him), and instead created "close enough" parallels that still often deviate from the behaviour of the equivalent in the normal Mario games.

-Daisy was specifically created to stand-in for Peach, and was made to be similar to her, and only ever returned to be a partner to Peach in sports games (specifically Mario Tennis), and to be "Luigi's Peach". Rosalina is the exact opposite. While initially intended to be a minor, one-level character in Galaxy who would actually be Peach's relative with a more similar design, that concept was scrapped and they went out of their way to give Rosalina a unique design and aesthetic, ditch her association to Peach, ditch the idea of her being a princess, and overall just made her a unique character in time for when Galaxy came out, and made her THE main character of the game's story elements (more on this later).

-Daisy simply shows up in spin-offs and some merchandise. Never receives top billing in them, though. Rosalina, however, very consistently receives top billing in mainline games, spin-offs (Smash included), and merchandise.

There's probably more I could go over but the general picture is clear. She's not comparable to Daisy at all.

So let's go over...

Rosalina as an icon
While saying Rosalina is as iconic as the classic troupe of Mario characters is going too far right now, she definitely is a big icon in her own right and it's only a matter of time before she becomes as iconic as the classic characters (who are basically peaked, they are as iconic as they can get pretty much).

I will simply go over what she has achieved as an icon herself.

-Widely considered the most interesting and complex Mario character within the main series and a top contender within the overall franchise. While not the most iconic or popular, she could easily be considered a contender for the most beloved Mario character, due to debuting with a great sense of agency and retaining it since her debut, and overall being well fleshed out and actually touching people's hearts. She's often touted as being more like a Zelda character than a Mario character (more on that later, as the assertion has more meaning to it).

-Considered the de facto representative of the Super Mario Galaxy games, which are two of the most critically acclaimed games of all time, the first one being the most successful 3D Mario platformer too. There was noticeable fan outcry when she didn't appear in Galaxy 2 as a main character (though she is at least the narrator and appears for the ending and post-game), and for not appearing at all in Mario Tennis Open despite all of the Galaxy elements in the game, including a remix of her theme song (though she was intended to appear in this, apparently there were technical limitations preventing her from appearing, so they made Luma playable instead). And since then, Nintendo have utilised Rosalina as the SMG rep going forward.

-Aside from this Galaxy representative stuff, she has just been receiving top billing in almost everything she appears in. She is a special kind of unlockable in MKWii (easy to unlock if you have a save file of Galaxy, the hardest to unlock if not), she appeared prominently in Smash promotional material, she was considered a selling point of 3D World and helped push the game, same thing with Mario Party 10 and Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash, her role in Puzzles & Dragons: SMB Edition (she gets two variants, "Rosalina", and "Super Rosalina". This is only given to main characters of the main series, the only other ones getting this treatment are Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser). I could really go on and on.

-Rosalina has been featured as standalone DLC twice (Mario Kart Arcade GP DX, Mario Golf World Tour), showing Nintendo has confidence in her being sold on her own. Her 3DS theme was also the best selling one for a time, beating out free ones (don't know if it still is due to the fact Nintendo seem to have removed the "Top Sellers" section from the Theme Shop, but Rosalina's was the best selling one since it launched, until they removed that section).

Here's some great examples of her prominence in merchandise and promotional material:

-Japanese pre-order bonus for Mario Kart 8, playing cards featuring Rosalina as the Queen card to Mario's King card

-Mario Kart 8 Soundtrack, features only Mario and Rosalina for the artwork

-Super Mario 3D World soundtrack, features Rosalina on the cover

-Cat Rosalina Furuta figure - part of a collectible chocolate egg figure set of 3D World in Japan. This figure was special in that it was the "secret hidden figure", being the rarest one that didn't have it's identity revealed in advertising, merely it's existence was advertised.

-Rosalina Face Cloth, part of a trio of Club Nintendo rewards in Japan (the other two face cloths were retro Donkey Kong and Splatoon themed, using generic pre-existing art, while the art work pictured her made it's debut on this face cloth)

I could once again, go on, but I am making this way too long a post as is.

I want to end this off now, but I will close with:

Rosalina's Role in Super Mario Galaxy, in the Mario Franchise as a whole, and what she means at Nintendo
While you write Rosalina off as a "minor NPC", this is not true. She is completely integral to the game.

-She saves Mario's life (and everyone's, in the ending), both in story scenes and in gameplay, more than once.

-She provides Mario with a base of operations throughout the game, her very home is the game's hub world.

-She single-handedly destroys Bowser's air fleet in the cutscene before the final level in order let Mario get to Bowser.

-She has a ton of dialogue that explores her character more. If you talk to her frequently over the course of the story when you return to the Observatory, she tends to say different things at different points. Some of these are even automatically initiated by the game (usually when she talks about her thoughts on a new visitor to the Observatory).

-She is effectively the Mario universe's equivalent to god, having the role of seeing to the birth, rebirth, and maintenance of the entire cosmos, and having been there in-universe since long, long before Mario and co. This means she is arguably the most important Mario character from a story standpoint - she's the in-universe reason Mario evens exists at all.

-She is the caretaker of the Lumas, a prominent gameplay and story element of the game.

-In terms of the player's mindset, she provides an alternative motive. While it doesn't butt heads with the standard "save Princess Peach" motive of Mario games (as in you don't make an in-game choice between "save Peach" or "stay with Rosalina" or something), discovering more about Rosalina is a potential motive for a player to play Galaxy (and was the main motive for a lot of people from a sentimental, story standpoint). Players who only care about Peach might stop playing once they save her and not bother to engage much with everything surrounding Rosalina. However, players who care about Rosalina, are given plenty of motivation to play through the game to it's completion. Storybook chapters are unlocked over the course of the game based on your progress, and the last one cannot be seen until after you've beaten the game. The secret ending also revolves around Rosalina, with her breaking the fourth wall to thank the player, and promises to "watch over" the player, giving a very satisfying conclusion to the discovery of this character. And she's always there for you to interact with, tempting you with what comments she may make if you care to discover more about the character.

Also on the topic of the storybook, it is completely important to the game's plot. First off, Yoshiaki Koizumi, the creator of Rosalina as we know her today, and the director of the Galaxy games and current producer of the Mario franchise, believes it is:

WN: And staying on that subject, one of the things that struck me the most out of Super Mario Galaxy were the storybook sequences. That was the closest a Mario game ever got to getting an emotional reaction out of me. Was that your influence?

YK: For a long time, it really felt like telling a story in a Mario game was something that wasn’t allowed. But I felt in this case that the Lumas and Rosalina really needed a story to explain what they were doing out there and to give the players a deeper understanding of their presence. So telling her story as a fairytale by reading the book to all the Lumas as if they were young children at storytime just seemed like the mood-appropriate way to accomplish this.

Dropping it into the game in the middle of the hub right there as something you could choose if you wanted to, I felt worked very well. If the book was standing all alone on its own, or if the game story was standing on its own, neither of them work very well as separate elements. But together, they reinforce each other quite nicely. And people have the option of hearing that story if they want to, or never going into that room if they don’t want to hear it. Even so, just making the children’s book was quite a feat. It was a bit of a struggle for us to get it done. And a couple things that we cut from the book ended up going into the main story as well. So it was a pretty good process.

http://www.wired.com/2007/12/interview-super/

And as he mentions, there were scenes originally part of the storybook that made it in as actual cutscenes in the game

But beyond that, it's important because it explains why Rosalina and Lumas are here and why we should care for them, explains the importance of the Gateway Planet (the first planet in the game) and why Mario lands on it, it explains why Rosalina passes near the Mushroom Kingdom every 100 years (a big plot point of the main story), and it explains why the Lumas treat Rosalina as their "mama". There's more but I think those are enough points.

Speaking of Yoshiaki Koizumi, he's the link (no pun intended) for that earlier comment about "Rosalina is often viewed as being more like a Zelda character than a Mario character". Yoshiaki Koizumi, prior to Mario Sunshine, worked on Zelda games, and is notable for creating the instruction manual for A Link to the Past (which illustrated details of the game's story and lore), and was a scenario writer for Majora's Mask - he's the guy who contributed to a lot of those characters and stories that people say is the "main attraction of the game", and it's honestly the same with Rosalina (especially since Galaxy 2 handled the gameplay aspect better). Getting to know her is one of the biggest reasons to play Galaxy, because she's really well fleshed out and easy to get attached to, unlike most Mario characters, just like those Majora's Mask characters. And she actually has an even more major role than them, since she's integral to the main story.

Rosalina is also kind of revolutionary for a few reasons:
-She's the first main series Mario character to not be created by Miyamoto, and she serves as an example of "Miyamoto isn't always right", since he opposed her being a big character of the series and even of Galaxy itself, because of how story focused she is and because of how she might upstage Peach.
-Her backstory is a great example of "non-intrusive storytelling", something video games didn't really do much of before Galaxy, certainly not platformers. It became a much more prominent trope in games after Galaxy came out.
-The first major new main series character to be introduced to be received well since Yoshi (Bowser Jr. wasn't received well).
-She provides a powerful female figure for Mario fans, as opposed to Peach who is normally a damsel in distress.
-She is the first character in a Mario platformer to be shown to deal with heavy themes such as loss of loved ones, depression and delusion, etc.

Also, in terms of what she means to Nintendo, she is basically the mascot of Nintendo EAD now. The team there, ADORE Rosalina, and evidently want to put her in more stuff. Not only was there that initial push for her in Galaxy, they even wanted to make her the narrator of Captain Toad's game, but the director of the game decided to make the game a prequel to 3D World. However, they still snuck her into the game with a cameo, something the director of that game didn't know about until the game went gold.

Actually, I didn't know about this either [pixel Rosalina appearances] until the game was completed! Looks like the designers put some extra love into this game! Although actually, there was a time when we were discussing whether the story of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker should connect with Super Mario 3D World or if we should present it as a story being read by Rosalina! If we had gone with the book idea, Rosalina might've appeared in person at the end of the game, but we decided to make the story connect with Super Mario 3D World in the end!

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._in_the_game_discusses_sources_of_inspiration

Even in 3D World, it wasn't Koizumi that demanded for her to be in the game, it was one of his co-workers.

Anyway, this ended up way longer than I initially intended. Might actually save it and expand on it in the future. But the gist is, Rosalina is far from a "flavour of the month" at this point, and is not one of the top 5 most likely to be cut. Bowser Jr is more at risk if we go with Mario characters. Rosalina is cemented as a main cast member of the series and the main team developing Mario games love her. I've only scratched the surface of how much she means at Nintendo and how iconic she is. Like it or not, she's not going anywhere, and is not going to be replaced by some random new character, especially since her in-universe role itself, is irreplaceable.

 

[Burruni]

review embargo for the witness ended
it's getting near-universal praise, with the dissenters... not understanding that puzzle games are about puzzles
i'm pretty hyped
i was really really bad at fez and la-mulana though sooo

Well GOOD FOR YOU!
Nigoro specifically made sure to point out that they were taking to heart complaints that a fair number of puzzles IN La Mulana were too arcaic or non-sensical to normal approaching and are doing their best to have the puzzles of La Mulana 2 be more intuitive.

(Seriously though this is probably the only time this game's going to be relevant so I'm going to do what I can to promote one of my most hyped kickstarter games)

And going by recent art... HOPING FOR THIS YEAR!

Spoiler

 

[Khoru]

Well GOOD FOR YOU!
Nigoro specifically made sure to point out that they were taking to heart complaints that a fair number of puzzles IN La Mulana were too arcaic or non-sensical to normal approaching and are doing their best to have the puzzles of La Mulana 2 be more intuitive.

(Seriously though this is probably the only time this game's going to be relevant so I'm going to do what I can to promote one of my most hyped kickstarter games)

And going by recent art... HOPING FOR THIS YEAR!

Spoiler

yeah i mean
at least the remake improved a lot compared to the 05 version
there's still some pretty crazy stuff though
i appreciate it for what it is, i'm just personally bad at the whole lateral thinking thing or w/e
shudders over mantras

 

[---]

For those who were curious, the Pokémon Super Bowl Commercial is up.

I thought that was an advertisement for Pokemon Go, but it's just there to make you feel old. LMAO

Gotta love all the little easter eggs in the advertisement, also Lucario standing among the Gen 1 Pokemon.

 

[Substitution]

Substitute: A true friend.
Literally exists to take the bullet for you.

I did not choose this path, but it is a path that I must take.

 

[Fatmanonice]

People usually automatically put Cloud and Bayo in the cut list because they're DLC and I kind of agree with that sentiment. If they aren't in the initial roster, they could simply be brought back ala Roy, Mewtwo, and Lucas if there's enough fan demand pushing for their return. Ryu's typically seen differently because, let's face it, the dude IS fighting games and pretty much the face of the genre.

 

[BluePikmin11]

review embargo for the witness ended
it's getting near-universal praise, with the dissenters... not understanding that puzzle games are about puzzles
i'm pretty hyped
i was really really bad at fez and la-mulana though sooo

Looks very Metroid inspired and looking at gameplay footage, I'm not sure if it will appeal to me.

 

[Schnee117]

#TMNT pic.twitter.com/n60KV8bE0P

— PlatinumGames Inc. (@platinumgames) January 25, 2016

Well aside from it being official meaning it's not a "leak" I'm looking forward to it.
Please be more like Transformers than Korra.

 

[Coricus]

memoryman3 ?

Ah, I think I see him post on GameFAQs a lot. Never really thought of him being around here.

At least you guys took the time to point out the obvious logic flaw in his campaign. GameFAQs just goes straight to insulting Daisy and her fans as a whole basically just because of him.

 

[Deleted member]

Hector seems to have angered Lady Luck because he keeps missing when he has an 80% hit rate
Eliwood too. He. Can't. Get. Strenght. Growths.
Lyn is okay for now
Sain is a literal powerhouse holy **** I can't take that 17 strenght and I just got a Knight Crest
Got Raven and Lucius so I'll try to use then because I never used a Mecenary before and I want a Hero
And Lucius for obvious reasons
Wil kicked Rebecca out because of her **** strenght and I fear I'm going to have to bench Erk because he's a disappointment
And Guy is just there, I guess, I need another Killing Edge because his is about to break

Also, on the topic of cuts, I don't see any of the Smash 4 newcomers leaving with maybe the exception of Corrin who is gonna be irrelevant and sadly, unpopular by the time Smash 5 comes
The FE fanbase hates him and the Smash fanbase is still salty, please for the love of Naga's cleavage be top tier so the competitive community will like him
And also, maybe Palutena considering another KI game is as likely as a main Metroid one

I know right! What kind of heartless soul would do such a thing?

I understand that the economy is not in a good shape now but I din't think you should resort to prostitution, buddy
I'll take 3 btw

 

[ChikoLad]

For those interested, the Freedom Planet Indiebox-made Collector's Edition is on sale in limited quantities right now. I already ordered mine, it comes with some fantastic stuff.

https://store.theindiebox.com/collections/frontpage/products/freedom-planet

 

[Bedoop]

"Mario in a Lab Coat" has 3 major points that Daisy doesn't.
A) He was the face of a significant sub-series at in Melee. Dr. Mario was Nintendo's big puzzle game series at the time.
B) He was in a situation where he roster was desperate for additions to pad it out in a very rushed development cycle. Nintendo's got a much healthier respect for time with Smash and development times now.
C) Sakurai saw significance in Dr. Mario while the Daisy color pallete for Peach has gotten lazier.

Not only that, but Doc also has the kickin' soundtrack behind him being one of the main reasons he was in Melee.
Also

3. Captain Toad (Stubby proportions let him down)

Is this the part where I bring up
(Literally a fat Toad with a Mallet)
(Both Dog and Duck apply)
(Literally limbs and a face)
(See Purin)
(See Kirby)
(See Meta Knight)
(Even redesigns can't keep Chubbychu away)
(Very small, especially when he shares the same skeleton as in SM4SH)
(Has no proportions to begin with)

I don't think Toad's a problem...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hector seems to have angered Lady Luck because he keeps missing when he has an 80% hit rate
Eliwood too. He. Can't. Get. Strenght. Growths.
Lyn is okay for now
Sain is a literal powerhouse holy **** I can't take that 17 strenght and I just got a Knight Crest
Got Raven and Lucius so I'll try to use then because I never used a Mecenary before and I want a Hero
And Lucius for obvious reasons
Wil kicked Rebecca out because of her **** strenght and I fear I'm going to have to bench Erk because he's a disappointment
And Guy is just there, I guess, I need another Killing Edge because his is about to break

Also, on the topic of cuts, I don't see any of the Smash 4 newcomers leaving with maybe the exception of Corrin who is gonna be irrelevant and sadly, unpopular by the time Smash 5 comes
The FE fanbase hates him and the Smash fanbase is still salty, please for the love of Naga's cleavage be top tier so the competitive community will like him
And also, maybe Palutena considering another KI game is as likely as a main Metroid one

I understand that the economy is not in a good shape now but I din't think you should resort to prostitution, buddy
I'll take 3 btw

Raven is obe of the best units in my experience, especially after promotion. Lucius is also amazing at what he does

 

[Con0rrrr]

For those who were curious, the Pokémon Super Bowl Commercial is up.

Thats a really good commercial

 

[Kenith]

For those interested, the Freedom Planet Indiebox-made Collector's Edition is on sale in limited quantities right now. I already ordered mine, it comes with some fantastic stuff.

https://store.theindiebox.com/collections/frontpage/products/freedom-planet

Freedom Planet looks good but uuuugh that art is so bad.

 

[ChikoLad]

Freedom Planet looks good but uuuugh that art is so bad.

What's wrong with it?

It perfectly encapsulates the zany feeling a lot of 16-bit/32-bit era games went for.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still need to try Freedom Planet. I'll get it ASAP when I get an eshop card

 

[Kenith]

What's wrong with it?

It perfectly encapsulates the zany feeling a lot of 16-bit/32-bit era games went for.

Lilac looks hideous and oversexualized IMO.
Her face is just...awful.

 

[ChikoLad]

Lilac looks hideous and oversexualized IMO.
Her face is just...awful.

I don't see what's wrong with her face really.

It doesn't come off as her being sexualised either. It's just an action pose.

 

[memoryman3]

New avatar hype!

You should be.
He's brought up in the past that he literally gets anxiety the longer he doesn't say something about her.

...

It's just that the idea of Daisy in Super Smash Bros seems very hated amongst the community, and now that the character forums are closed, we can't bring in new fans like we used to

I think she has a ton of potential for future games. Her four trophies describe her as a headstrong, active kind of gal, and that shows in nearly all of the games that she's in. She could pull moves from Mario Party or Sports or even give her flower stuffs or Pirahna Plants or something along those lines!

Instead, they choose to pretend that the Peach colour is Daisy...

But hey, at least she's winning on BluePikmin11 's SSF2 poll!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

oversexualized

Kenith confirmed Mario teh Plumber, any anime is porn

 

[ChikoLad]

Kenith confirmed Mario teh Plumber, any anime is porn

"Lilac is a hentai, she ruined the Sonic series"

Spoiler

Poking fun at MTP here and not Kenith, just so it's clear.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

New avatar hype!



...

It's just that the idea of Daisy in Super Smash Bros seems very hated amongst the community, and now that the character forums are closed, we can't bring in new fans like we used to

I think she has a ton of potential for future games. Her four trophies describe her as a headstrong, active kind of gal, and that shows in nearly all of the games that she's in. She could pull moves from Mario Party or Sports or even give her flower stuffs or Pirahna Plants or something.

Instead, they choose to pretend that the Peach colour is Daisy...

But hey, at least she's winning on BluePikmin11 's SSF2 poll!

People hate the Daisy fanbase because YOU keep posting about her, GameFAQS hated Daisy because of you, you got banned on Reddit for this, and you are NOT learning. You aren't 'getting new fans' but more hater with this behaviour. If Daisy had enough Smash potential she'd probably already be in. Not to mention she's supposed to be a tomboy, yet she's a ****ing girly bimbo like Peach, only instead of pink, she likes flowers

That poll got botted by Daisy fans. That's not a positive

 

[ChikoLad]

I mostly just think memoryman is trolling at this point, at least to a degree.

 

[LIQUID12A]

It's just that the idea of Daisy in Super Smash Bros seems very hated amongst the community, and now that the character forums are closed, we can't bring in new fans like we used to

Have you considered that MAYBE your attitude regarding her is the problem and not the solution when Daisy hate can literally be attributed to one person's yammering over her to a highly concerning, not to mention unnecessary degree?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Word to the wise from an old fart that was part of Brawl speculation too: fanbases need to rest. That's why real political campaigns rarely last longer than a year and a half because even the supporters will get burned out if they're talked about long enough. SSB5's development is probably a good 3-5 years off at least so starting now is nothing more than wasted energy.

 

[Champ Gold]

New avatar hype!



...

It's just that the idea of Daisy in Super Smash Bros seems very hated amongst the community, and now that the character forums are closed, we can't bring in new fans like we used to

I think she has a ton of potential for future games. Her four trophies describe her as a headstrong, active kind of gal, and that shows in nearly all of the games that she's in. She could pull moves from Mario Party or Sports or even give her flower stuffs or Pirahna Plants or something along those lines!

Instead, they choose to pretend that the Peach colour is Daisy...

But hey, at least she's winning on BluePikmin11 's SSF2 poll!

Bro, shut the hell up.

No seriously. Please you keep on pushing this and you're making actual Daisy fans look bad.

@Azure Warrior is a known Daisy supporter and he doesn't act this obsessive or annoying.

I'm tired of being polite but shut up

 

[Kenith]

Kenith confirmed Mario teh Plumber, any anime is porn

...Okay then.
I can see I have the unpopular opinion here.

 

[Champ Gold]

...Okay then.
I can see I have the unpopular opinion here.

Don't take it personal, it's mostly a joke