Survivor: Gabon - featuring Melee champion Ken

[Yuna]

Bob lied when he claimed he had kept his promise at TC (and made it look like such through changing it slightly). Not necessarily when he made the promise IF he was planning to keep it (which we don't know for sure, he could've been lying when he said that)

Which TC is this? I don't remember Bob ever saying "I kept my promise as originally outlayed when I first promised you immunity, no matter what".

According to Bob, he had renegotiated it into "If I feel like you're going home tonight, I'll give it to you" (and we saw him to do this)... which isn't even that weird since Ken himself gave him this: "You don't have to give it to me tonight. You can give it to me at the next Tribal if you want to."

So Ken himself gave Bob an out. Bob chose to change it into "If I feel like you're going home tonight..." (which he ultimately felt would not happen).

With that said, someone who goes around making promises he doesn't keep can't be called a man of his word.

Making one promise you do not keep because of various reasons which give you sufficient reasoning to break it =/= Not being a man of your word.

A man on your word =/= Always, always keeping your promises, no matter what, even if it'll cost you everything.

If that's your definition of "a [person] of their word", then I guess no such person exists in this world, lest they be stupid or some kind of Buddha-like saint.

And I just love how you spent your time looking up the definition of lying, linking it to me and everything. Good job, keep doing that and you might convince me you're a decent debater.

As if it'd hard to go on Dictionary.com. Try it sometimes, it can be very educating. Just because it might take others several minutes does not mean it took more than 50 seconds for me to go on Dictionary.com, look up the definition and Copy + Paste it, and that's only because my Wireless card is kinda crummy, so my Internet is slow at times.

EDIT: Hey look at this, interview with Crystal. She talks about the night Corrine was voted and what she and Ken was planning. Second post here:
http://survivorsucks.com/topic/43022/t/Castaway-Interview-Crystal-Cox.html?page=6

It looks like what Ken said in his interview was true and not "shenanigans". He didn't even lie to Crystal about anything (unless I'm missing something)

Spoiler

Sometimes making claims to stick out makes you look stupid. Now we shall all laugh at Yuna as he tries to deny being wrong about this.

Oh wow! I wasn't psychic and didn't know there was a hidden interview that was never aired on the show!

I pointed out the flaws in Ken's reasoning based on what we had seen insofar! How insolent of me to not know that there was an interview somewhere explaining what really happened!

I had perfectly valid reasons to doubt Ken's words since they went against established events as seen on the show (not due to editing but due to what Ken actually said).

Not to mention that Crystal's interview doesn't really say "I and Ken knew all along that the Idol was a fake!". In fact, Crystal's interview is ambiguous on that front. It indicates she probably eventually figured out it was a fake, but it doesn't tell us when she figured this out.

Everything I said still goes (even if I was apparently wrong, my reasoning was just fine. There's nothing wrong with being wrong as long as you padded your arguments with valid reasoning).

 

[St. Viers]

re: man of your word. It's like saying trustworthy means always telling the truth. It doesn't, it means that the person is perceived as such. I would say that people perceived Bob as a man of his word, because they gave him their trust. Also, Mike Hagger is simply trying to troll you now, so I'd say ignore most of his posts--only a troll would try and say 'that linking the definition of a word that's definition is being contested is stupid'


Wait, it Bob said that he'd give it to kenny if he felt that [kenny] was going to be voted out, then he kept his word. From what I can see, Kenny was 100% confident at that TC. It was simply an epically worded statement.

 

[majoras.]

\
With that said, someone who goes around making promises he doesn't keep can't be called a man of his word.
\

THIS IS A GAME!! in this game you are allowed to cheat, lie, and use people as is better for you in order to win.

in this game you must seek your own benefit, and do all the possible things to survive, hence the name of the game...

...and yuna, yes there has been many man who always keep their promises NO MATTER WHAT
..but in this game if you are that man, you lose

 

[Tyser]

This Yuna kid just posts essays on every single post. FYI, people dont read those man.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

THIS IS A GAME!! in this game you are allowed to cheat, lie, and use people as is better for you in order to win.

in this game you must seek your own benefit, and do all the possible things to survive, hence the name of the game...

...and yuna, yes there has been many man who always keep their promises NO MATTER WHAT
..but in this game if you are that man, you lose

I agree with all of that. Lie all you want in survivor, but don't claim to be a man of your word if you do.

Wait, it Bob said that he'd give it to kenny if he felt that [kenny] was going to be voted out, then he kept his word. From what I can see, Kenny was 100% confident at that TC. It was simply an epically worded statement.

That wasn't the original deal, so Bob randomly changed the deal while acting as if he kept it... which is the whole point

Which TC is this? I don't remember Bob ever saying "I kept my promise as originally outlayed when I first promised you immunity, no matter what".

According to Bob, he had renegotiated it into "If I feel like you're going home tonight, I'll give it to you" (and we saw him to do this)... which isn't even that weird since Ken himself gave him this: "You don't have to give it to me tonight. You can give it to me at the next Tribal if you want to."

So Ken himself gave Bob an out. Bob chose to change it into "If I feel like you're going home tonight..." (which he ultimately felt would not happen).

So you DO admit that Bob changed the deal!
And no, Ken didn't say "you can change the deal to something completely different while pretending that you kept that original deal". IIRC, the TC where Ken was voted out he claimed that "the deal was" that if he felt Ken was going home, he'd give Ken the idol. And that wasn't the deal.
EDIT: it was the TC where Crystal was voted out, not the one where Ken vas voted off, i was wrong there. Either way, Bob said so and therefore the point still stands.
He claimed they renegotiated things, but I can't recall him doing so with Ken. :/ He just changed his deal.

If Bob had just said "since you where planning to backstab me, I won't keep my deal" everything would be good. But instead he said the deal was something it wasn't to make it look like he kept the deal.
I win the argument. Damage Control time, Yuna!

Making one promise you do not keep because of various reasons which give you sufficient reasoning to break it =/= Not being a man of your word.

So you can call yourself a man of your word while lying and breaking promises left and right? awesome

As if it'd hard to go on Dictionary.com. Try it sometimes, it can be very educating. Just because it might take others several minutes does not mean it took more than 50 seconds for me to go on Dictionary.com, look up the definition and Copy + Paste it, and that's only because my Wireless card is kinda crummy, so my Internet is slow at times.

How long did it take you to type that?

I'm wrong, but I'll try to keep my pride intact! teh reasoning wah wah! ;(

Fail.

 

[Yuna]

That wasn't the original deal, so Bob randomly changed the deal while acting as if he kept it... which is the whole point

I see we have selective memory. Nonetheless, Bob changed the original deal. Whether you like it or not, he did.

And no, Ken didn't say "you can change the deal to something completely different while pretending that you kept that original deal".

Bob has never claimed to have kept the original deal. Quotes, please.

IIRC, the TC where Ken was voted out he claimed that "the deal was" that if he felt Ken was going home, he'd give Ken the idol.

You remember wrong. Bob was "I found out you were scheming to get me voted off, which is why the deal was changed from unconditional to conditional. There was an implicit implication that if I help you like this, you'd at least have my back".

Bob stated point blank that he changed the deal and why it was changed (well, Ken stated that it was changed first, Bob went on to elaborate).

The current deal, the deal he later renegotiated after Ken gave him the out of not even having to give him immunity that tribal, at all, if he so chose. Whether Ken liked it or not, Bob changed the deal and stayed true to that one. He has never claimed to have kept the original deal.

If Bob had just said "since you where planning to backstab me, I won't keep my deal" everything would be good. But instead he said the deal was something it wasn't to make it look like he kept the deal.

The deal had the underlying fine print of "I help you, you help me, or at least don't stab me in the back".

So you can call yourself a man of your word while lying and breaking promises left and right? awesomeHow long did it take you to type that?

I wasn't aware of that the English language had been changed so that "left and right" suddenly meant "once".

Fail.

Yes, how horrible. Sometimes, people are wrong! Horrible, horrible! How dare people not be perfect and never be wrong!

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

The deal had the underlying fine print of "I help you, you help me, or at least don't stab me in the back".

No, it didn't. That was just something Bob made up.

On the other crap you wrote:
By your definition i'm a man of my word I promise to give you 100 000 kr and then I change the deal to giving you 50 öre instead (lets say I changed the deal for a good reason, btw). I still kept the deal, just not the "original deal", MIRITE?

Yes, how horrible. Sometimes, people are wrong! Horrible, horrible! How dare people not be perfect and never be wrong!

Well, I just expected something better by such an eager debater as you. Oh well, I guess you just suck at arguing, not my problem :/

 

[flyinfilipino]

No, it didn't. That was just something Bob made up.

On the other crap you wrote:
By your definition i'm a man of my word I promise to give you 100 000 kr and then I change the deal to giving you 50 öre instead (lets say I changed the deal for a good reason, btw). I still kept the deal, just not the "original deal", MIRITE?
Well, I just expected something better by such an eager debater as you. Oh well, I guess you just suck at arguing, not my problem :/

Keeping a "promise" when someone is about to stab you behind the back and you know it is just suicidal. There's no "deal" there. It's understood that when a "deal" like that is made, that the two people involved are supposed to be watching each others' backs. When one person (Ken) goes back on it, it's not in both party's interests to stay with the original agreement. Nobody should be bound to a promise when they have definite knowledge that it's going to be their downfall.

Also, MikeHaggar, you suck at trolling. You've obviously got some insecurity issues.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Keeping a "promise" when someone is about to stab you behind the back and you know it is just suicidal. There's no "deal" there. It's understood that when a "deal" like that is made, that the two people involved are supposed to be watching each others' backs. When one person (Ken) goes back on it, it's not in both party's interests to stay with the original agreement. Nobody should be bound to a promise when they have definite knowledge that it's going to be their downfall.

I agree with this, Bob definetly shouldn't have kept his promise/been a man of his word in this situation.
Since you're expressing this as if you're arguing against me, I'm pretty sure you're missing the point. :/

Also, MikeHaggar, you suck at trolling.

Shall we count the pages I've kept Yuna going at this?

 

[flyinfilipino]

I agree with all of this, Bob definetly shouldn't have kept his promise.
Since you're expressing this as if you're arguing against me, I'm pretty sure you're missing the point. :/
Shall we count the pages I've kept Yuna going at this?

Nah, I was just throwing my two cents in. As for Bob being as man of his word...I think he what he did at the time was not a bad thing at all. When Ken broke the deal first, the deal was off right then and there, so Bob wasn't bound to do anything. That's what I think.

Also, sure, as long as we also count them as the number of pages you've failed to phase him at all and the number of pages you've continued to talk about Survivor with him, therefore giving him a reason to talk to you and only throwing in "troll comments" at the end of your posts to make it look like you're trying to be a troll, despite dismissing Yuna himself as a "troll" a week ago. You've got a strange obsession here

 

[Yuna]

By your definition i'm a man of my word I promise to give you 100 000 kr and then I change the deal to giving you 50 öre instead (lets say I changed the deal for a good reason, btw). I still kept the deal, just not the "original deal", MIRITE?

Yes, and?

I would not be going around calling you "a man of <not> your word" for it, as long as you never went around claiming to have kept the original deal (which Bob never did).

Well, I just expected something better by such an eager debater as you. Oh well, I guess you just suck at arguing, not my problem :/

You've been wrong plenty of times in this thread. Isn't this the kettle calling the pristine china teapot black? Being wrong once in a while due to making a hypothesis using valid facts and arguments is not bad. Not everyone is right every single time.

At least I didn't conveniently "misremember" a gazillion things, like what Bob said and didn't say. And when I was called on it, ignored it, hoping it'd go away.

 

[Chip.]

Something inside me really wishes Yuna and MikeHaggerTHAKJB would stop posting in this thread.

Seriously, you two are still debating after the show is already over. Is debating this nonsense over and over really worth it?

And you both are debating over an American TV show when neither of you are even from the US <_>


Can't we all just get along?

 

[BKupa666]

Hey, does anyone have the gif of Ken dropping the pen at the first tribal council??

Thanks!

 

[Shinzaburo]

People still post on this thread. O_O

It's over. Bob won. Ken lost.

 

[Steeler]

gonna miss the hype and such for gabon.

i will not, however, miss yuna and mikehaggar's incessant and pointless arguing. please stop wasting space on my screen, thanks.

 

[greenblob]

The "Marcus is gay" jokes almost make up for Kota's "I'm cooler than Fang" attitude
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVeDdvjcpsA
OK, fine, I was laughing the entire time.

 

[victra♥]

I'm watching that, and I'm lollin'

So I'm watching Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory, and the first thing to come to mind when I saw Veruca was Corinne >_>

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Dude, if you're gonna come in and just mock those still discussing the show, GTFO, or I will start throwing out infractions. It is perfectly acceptable to analyze the show after it's over. And Chip, you don't have to be American to like an American show. >_>

 

[Chip.]

I didn't say it's wrong for them to like the show lmao..

I don't know why they're ferociously debating topics after the show is over.

It goes on and on and really isn't worth it. And is kinda annoying ^_^;

Can't we all just get along?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I didn't say it's wrong for them to like the show lmao..

Just wrong to discuss it after it's over... ?

I don't know why they're ferociously debating topics after the show is over.

Does it really matter?

It goes on and on and really isn't worth it. And is kinda annoying ^_^;

... leave the topic?

Can't we all just get along?

Yes, we can. Some people bond by debating. ^_^

 

[Chip.]

Just wrong to discuss it after it's over... ?

No, but debating this nonsense is never going to end. I wish they'd stop but whatever.

Does it really matter?

No, but is this really getting either of them anywhere? I know I know not my problem but still realistically the show's over so is it still a big deal to be painstakingly debating over <_>?

. . . leave the topic?

There isn't really a reason for me leaving the thread

Yes, we can. Some people bond by debating. ^_^

I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and assume they aren't the best of friends with eachother. IIRC, MikeHagger called Yuna an "idiot" and Yuna reported him for that. I wouldn't call that bonding.

They can keep debating but their debate really isn't going anywhere and it never seems to stop. I really wish it would and hopefully will be soon.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Yeah, you're probably right. Yuna makes a lot of enemies for being right.

Still, I know I enjoy analyzing the show after it's over. It's just weird how you come in and try to "guide them to a better life" or something. I dunno. Let 'em debate!

 

[Chip.]

Btw, congrats on mod status Buzz/Ban/Daddy Saw!

Edit - Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was being some guidance teacher or something I was just frustrated at their bickering that's all .

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

1st person voted out of Survivor: Buzz Fan Club. Chip.

 

[gantrain05]

don't you know yuna will never ever ever ever ever stop debating with anybody, thats just what yuna does.

 

[Chip.]

Chip the day after:

"ya know it was a great experience for me, being on Buzz Fan Club Island and stuff, I learned so much in 3 days..."

lol

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

It's OK. Deva is still in.

 

[Chip.]

ahh crap.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

http://survivorsucks.com/topic/43632/t/Kenny-wont-be-posting-here.html?page=8

I posted this a few pages back but it was ignored :/ impossible to see between the endless quote chains between me and yuna, i guess
I get the feeling "drakonis" is manacloud >.>

Spoiler

yhea it's because of the avatar

... anyway, do you guys think that convo in the first post is by ken? (if it is I agree with everything he said, lol)

btw, i think we should all hate a little on jeff probst for being rude to susie at the reunion show... I don't understand why he disliked susie so much, because she wasn't a major strategic player and was just riding coattails?... well, so was bob, and he seems to love bob.
I know Bob did a few strategic moves with the fake immunity idols and stuff, but so did Susie with her flippings.
Also, her "just try" thing would've fit perfectly with their underdog theme.

Spoiler

She also got herself to the finals by herself, unlike Bob, who was handed a million bucks by Sugar

At least I didn't conveniently "misremember" a gazillion things, like what Bob said and didn't say. And when I was called on it, ignored it, hoping it'd go away.

He said that at the TC where Crystal was voted out, not the one where Ken was voted out. I was wrong about when he said it, but he still said it. I rewatched the TC's of those episodes to be sure.
I edited that, but i guess you didn't see that. so i didn't "misremember a gazillion things and ignore it"
anyway im not gonna keep this up since it annoys people, so if you want to tell me something just pm me instead, ill gladly delete your silly rants

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, you're probably right. Yuna makes a lot of enemies for being right.

It's the price of being right.

I know Bob did a few strategic moves with the fake immunity idols and stuff, but so did Susie with her flippings.

Bob has always been a major player in challenges, both team challenges and individual challenges. He was the sole competitor left vs. Matty for the pole challenge, he won or did very well at all puzzle-based challenges and he was always the man Kota turned to when it came to parts of team challenges that required mind power (like Ken was Fang's man for that), such as untying knots and solving puzzles.

That's not riding coat tails and being a nobody on the sidelines at all.

Spoiler

She also got herself to the finals by herself, unlike Bob, who was handed a million bucks by Sugar

She got to the finals because nobody thought she posed any kind of a threat to them winning. She was the ideal candidate. Nobody would vote for her for her accomplishments alone (3 people ended up voting for her purely out of spite against the other two finalists).

Bob, Matty and Ken knew that in a final 3 against Suzie, they stood very good chances at winning. And she was absolutely no threat in individual immunity challenges (and she wasn't for the most part. She showed them, but overall, not much of a threat).

He said that at the TC where Crystal was voted out, not the one where Ken was voted out. I was wrong about when he said it, but he still said it. I edited that, but i guess you didn't see that. so i didn't "misremember a gazillion things and ignore it".

Don't edit old post after you're called on something. Why would I re-read your old post once I've already replied to them, hoping you'd edit in new info into them?

And, funny, I'm watching Crystal's tribal council right now. You are still remembering it wrong. Did you go back and re-watch it? If so, how can you stand there and claim Bob claimed to have kept the original deal? He didn't.

This is what was said:
Ken: Blah, blah, he lied to me! Noes! He promised me immunity if he won!
Jeff: Is that true?
Bob: That's what I told him. We have since re-negotiated the deal.

Bob immediately threw in that the deal was no longer what it was when he first gave it to Ken. Bob has never, in front of anyone (as far as we know), claimed to have kept the original deal.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

Anyone else think Yuna got viciously ***** by Ken at a tournament and is sore about it? >_>

 

[Cyntalan Maelstrom]

Anyone else think Yuna got viciously ***** by Ken at a tournament and is sore about it? >_>

No, Yuna just likes to be on the dumb side of arguments. I swear it's purely for the lulz. I have a hard time believing the stuff it spews is serious.

 

[Yuna]

Anyone else think Yuna got viciously ***** by Ken at a tournament and is sore about it? >_>

I have never played Ken in a tournament. We were at the same tournament once, we just didn't play (well, we played one friendly, I think, I'm not sure).

No, Yuna just likes to be on the dumb side of arguments. I swear it's purely for the lulz. I have a hard time believing the stuff it spews is serious.

I like to strike down stupidity. And, serously, CogSmooch is acting as if Ken did nothing wrong or that my criticisms of him is unwarranted. At least Mike Haggar has conceeded (several times) that my criticism is warranted.

Not to mention the fact that the majority of the things I've argued in this thread are not criticisms of Ken but criticisms of how some people in this thread treat Ken vs. the other people on the show or how some people have judged and spoken of people who were not Ken on the show. Very little of it have actually been criticism of Ken himself. Reading comprehension, it helps.

Also, enjoy your infraction.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

lol I haven't argued with you in this thread for a while so leave me out of it. Besides that's blatantly not true.

PS - repeatedly posting "enjoy your infraction" when you report people doesn't make you cool... ???

 

[Yuna]

lol I haven't argued with you in this thread for a while so leave me out of it. Besides that's blatantly not true.

"Anyone else think Yuna got viciously ***** by Ken at a tournament and is sore about it? >_>" - Why would you ask this when most of the stuff I've said in this thread is not even criticism of Ken? All of my, very limited, criticism of Ken was been warranted and supported with valid arguments instead of just blind accusations and misinterpretations of his words.

Much of my time spent in this thread has not been spent on criticizing Ken at all but at other things. What would make you ask that question unless, of course, you, somehow, thought that I held a grudge against Ken because of my, in your eyes, overly critical view of Ken's behavior on Survivor?

PS - repeatedly posting "enjoy your infraction" when you report people doesn't make you cool... ???

It's to give them a heads up.

 

[Zombie Lucille Ball]

"Anyone else think Yuna got viciously ***** by Ken at a tournament and is sore about it? >_>" - Why would you ask this when most of the stuff I've said in this thread is not even criticism of Ken? All of my, very limited, criticism of Ken was been warranted and supported with valid arguments instead of just blind accusations and misinterpretations of his words.

Much of my time spent in this thread has not been spent on criticizing Ken at all but at other things. What would make you ask that question unless, of course, you, somehow, thought that I held a grudge against Ken because of my, in your eyes, overly critical view of Ken's behavior on Survivor?

Holeeeeeeee sheeite.

It was a joke.

... lighten up.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

No, Yuna just likes to be on the dumb side of arguments. I swear it's purely for the lulz. I have a hard time believing the stuff it spews is serious.

Nah, I just think he argues just for the sake of arguing and sticking out. A few posts above he even said that he isn't really arguing for anything, he's just arguing against people: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6180959&postcount=8433
It's sad how his "opinion" (if he really has one) ends up being mentally ******** since he has to disagree with everyone

btw: does anyone know if there's ever going to be a "you ask, they tell" with Ken? (those that are on the cbs website with everyone except the final 5)
if anyone has links or w/e to interviews with Ken posting them would be appreciated

 

[Chip.]

CogSmooch, is it true that you have a beard made of awesome?

Legit Q

 

[Yuna]

Holeeeeeeee sheeite.

It was a joke.

... lighten up.

It was inappropriate, random and was easy to misunderstand as a serious accusation, especially considering the current level this thread is mired in.

Nah, I just think he argues just for the sake of arguing and sticking out. A few posts above he even said that he isn't really arguing for anything, he's just arguing against people.

Are you hallucinating again? Please quote me where I said anything remotely like that.

First you hallucinate what Bob said, now you're hallucinating what I said. All within less than 48 hours (I think). I see a pattern here.

Speaking of hallucinating what Bob said. You've conveniently "forgotten" to address my reply to your (very untrue) claim that Bob claimed to have kept his original deal with Ken at Crystal's tribal despite the fact that I replied to you both in this thread and through a PM.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

He claimed to have kept the "deal", if you change the deal to something it wasn't originally it's not the same deal. So bob didn't keep his deal, it's pretty simple.
It doesn't matter that Bob didn't stick in "original" before "deal", since it was no longer the same deal he didn't keep the deal.
It doesn't matter that he claimed that they renegotiated the deal either, since he never did that with Ken (unless I'm missing something big)
I DID rewatch the TC's, btw.

We already went through this (definition of keeping a deal) which is why I didn't reply.
And last time you made it pretty clear that your definition of making deals and being a man of your word is pretty messed up, don't repeat yourself please.