Super Smash Flash 2

[CrossoverMan]

You guys have been teasing Cloud for a while. I mean, wasn't he planned at some point in development? Well, why don't you add a twist and make him based off his Kingdom Hearts 1 design, so Sora can have a buddy.

 

[Kayo]

Played this on the setup at Apex. Very pleased with what you did with Ness and the game in general. Keep up the awesome work.

 

[SuperMii3D]

I just signed up for online. This will bode well with many. AND MARIO RESPRITE?!?!?! YES!!!!!

 

[Substitution]

You guys have been teasing Cloud for a while. I mean, wasn't he planned at some point in development? Well, why don't you add a twist and make him based off his Kingdom Hearts 1 design, so Sora can have a buddy.

Eh, I'm happy with Black Mage.

 

[Ya Dad]

I look forward to playing you guys online

 

[Substitution]

I look forward to playing you guys online

...And I look forward to what I call "delaying my inevitable loss".

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Can't believe I SD'ed with Sora...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s0fB_ql2FU

Online hype!! I'll bring death to all

 

[Substitution]

Can't believe I SD'ed with Sora...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s0fB_ql2FU

Online hype!! I'll bring death to all

Eh, I'm okay with Sora.
The only thing with him is KOing (with the only reliable one being a sweet-spotted neutral special).

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Eh, I'm okay with Sora.
The only thing with him is KOing (with the only reliable one being a sweet-spotted neutral special).

Thunder wouldve been a great ko move if it wasn't for its long warm up time.
Btw how come strike raid was nerfed? Did it have too much range or something?

 

[Substitution]

Thunder wouldve been a great ko move if it wasn't for its long warm up time.
Btw how come strike raid was nerfed? Did it have too much range or something?

Honestly, I don't know.
I'd assume so. But then there's Link's boomerang...

 

[CrossoverMan]

Since you changed Mega Man's portrait to make him more like his classic/SSB4 design rather than his Mega Man 8 design, will his moveset be changed as well?

 

[[TSON]]

His moveset actually encompasses something from every classic Mega Man game, but we felt that for the HUD and menus it would be best to stick with a classic model. It looks very similar to the sprites, still.

 

[Substitution]

You know, I hope for that day I get to play as Mr. G&W.
...Why are you looking at me like that?

 

[NeonS4]

So hyped for 0.9b, online is going to be so fun! I can't wait to fight you guys with my CFalcon!

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Idk if this has been discussed yet, but there's this glitch where whenever you smack some opponents down onto a platform close to the edge and they try to get up, they end up sliding off it at fast speeds. I don't have a vid or screenshot, but this has happened in my lvl 9 CPU fights with DK and Fox. This rarely happens when I fight actual people (I think only 1 time), but it could become a problem in competitive play if it's overlooked.

 

[Substitution]

So, how 'bout that weather?

 

[CrossoverMan]

I think Bomb Factory is the stage that needs to be made less unforgiving and not Clock Town. I mean, Clock Town was challenging, but enjoyably so. Bomb Factory was just plain annoying. If you had four players on it, the damage meters will block the players' vision.

 

[[TSON]]

Idk if this has been discussed yet, but there's this glitch where whenever you smack some opponents down onto a platform close to the edge and they try to get up, they end up sliding off it at fast speeds. I don't have a vid or screenshot, but this has happened in my lvl 9 CPU fights with DK and Fox. This rarely happens when I fight actual people (I think only 1 time), but it could become a problem in competitive play if it's overlooked.

Fixed in next demo.

I think Bomb Factory is the stage that needs to be made less unforgiving and not Clock Town. I mean, Clock Town was challenging, but enjoyably so. Bomb Factory was just plain annoying. If you had four players on it, the damage meters will block the players' vision.

Clock Town had CPUs dumbfounded and there were lots of times where I would die at ridiculous percentages because the stage and boundaries were so small, personally. I didn't really care for it too much before but I like it better with the small improvements (plus it looks better!)

Bomb Factory on the other hand... is a little different. That is definitely not a normal Smash stage, of course. Designed to be hectic and focused around the hazard, it's probably not going to resonate well with everyone. I personally think it's one of the most fun stages tbh. But yeah, the damage meter thing is a problem. Will report.

 

[Substitution]

Say, quick question.
In 9.b. Is it possible to angle Mario's/Samus's F-smash?

 

[[TSON]]

Say, quick question.
In 9.b. Is it possible to angle Mario's/Samus's F-smash?

For ease of input we decided not to add tilted fsmashes. We might revisit this later but for now it's intentional that we don't have 'em.

 

[Substitution]

For ease of input we decided not to add tilted fsmashes. We might revisit this later but for now it's intentional that we don't have 'em.

Ah.
I was just curious.
Oh, and before I forget, there's something with Kirby.
I'm not sure why, but with Tails' Neutral Special, they tend to take more damage then usual...
At least I think so. I could just be goin' insane...

 

[[TSON]]

Yes, you're right. Also fixed.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

So yeah, I think Sora's strike raid is making me insane...
I don't know if its just my lack of memory from the previous 0.9 demo version, but the distance it travels is significantly shorter than Link's boomerang. I'm curious, though. If I'm not dreaming that it used to be a really good gimp move, what caused the strike raid to have a nerfed distance? And what will become of it in the future?

 

[[TSON]]

It had no startup or endlag and went the distance of FD. Naturally we had to kill it in some way, so we decided to keep the speed for the most part and shorten the range.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Is this ever going to have a competitive community with tournaments? Also, nerf Lloyd and DK.

 

[Substitution]

Is this ever going to have a competitive community with tournaments? Also, nerf Lloyd and DK.

Well, if anything.
DK needs to be buffed (mostly in recovery).
And Lloyd's fine just the way he is.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Well, if anything.
DK needs to be buffed (mostly in recovery).
And Lloyd's fine just the way he is.

Lol I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong, loyd's range is ridiculous, his grab can chain in three of his throws, he had a good projectile, a good kill move, and the only down side to him is his recovery, which in brawl, olimar had even worst recovery, and he got third in the tier list.
DK had super armor for most of his moves, his recovery had no landing lag, his also got range, and most of all, his puch can kill at 15% without DI, and what's even more deadly, he had a down throw chain grab that chain way more than 15%, also, his dash attack is amazing too.

 

[Substitution]

Lol I'm sorry, but you are absolutely wrong, loyd's range is ridiculous, his grab can chain in three of his throws, he had a good projectile, a good kill move, and the only down side to him is his recovery, which in brawl, olimar had even worst recovery, and he got third in the tier list.
DK had super armor for most of his moves, his recovery had no landing lag, his also got range, and most of all, his puch can kill at 15% without DI, and what's even more deadly, he had a down throw chain grab that chain way more than 15%, also, his dash attack is amazing too.

I may not know much about DK, but I main Lloyd.
And I can say for one he's far from overpowered.
Heck, they even have a tier list, of which if I'm correct he placed 16th.

I don't believe DK was that high either.

Edit: Well, 14th.

 

[GangsterPuff]

I may not know much about DK, but I main Lloyd.
And I can say for one he's far from overpowered.
Heck, they even have a tier list, of which if I'm correct he placed 16th.

I don't believe DK was that high either.

Edit: Well, 14th.

Yeah, but the tier list was put up by a vote, and it contains mostly wrong information. Sonic should not be 1st, jiggle isn't good at all, top tier should be DK, Lloyd, MK, megaman, and maybe sora? It's just my opinion, but I think Lloyd is OP, my friend show me how good he can be, he's basically the combination of an olimar and MK in brawl.

 

[Substitution]

Yeah, but the tier list was put up by a vote, and it contains mostly wrong information. Sonic should not be 1st, jiggle isn't good at all, top tier should be DK, Lloyd, MK, megaman, and maybe sora? It's just my opinion, but I think Lloyd is OP, my friend show me how good he can be, he's basically the combination of an olimar and MK in brawl.

I honestly don't see him that way.
And it was by popular vote, so I guess others thought the same...

 

[K.Louis]

Yeah, but the tier list was put up by a vote, and it contains mostly wrong information. Sonic should not be 1st, jiggle isn't good at all, top tier should be DK, Lloyd, MK, megaman, and maybe sora? It's just my opinion, but I think Lloyd is OP, my friend show me how good he can be, he's basically the combination of an olimar and MK in brawl.

What information is wrong? Sonic has insane mobility and the air-dash cancel is the safest combo starter/shield pressure/escape/recovery/everything in the game, and Jiggs is good for pretty much the exact same reasons why she's good in Melee.

 

[GangsterPuff]

What information is wrong? Sonic has insane mobility and the air-dash cancel is the safest combo starter/shield pressure/escape/recovery/everything in the game, and Jiggs is good for pretty much the exact same reasons why she's good in Melee.

Sonic cant kill, hes recovery is very predictable, none of his moves can really combo into anything impressive, and if you see PM jiggly, shes not nearly as good as melee jiggly, but PM didnt nerf her at all. Oh well, i guess it really just the play style that matters.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

First of all, DK was "voted" low on the tier list for a reason. His size and weight make him highly susceptible to zero-to-death combos, probably the most in the entire game so far.

Second, because of the fact that DK can't deal with projectiles and that he has the worst recovery options in the game, he should be Kirby tier and NOT Link since he can easily be gimped by Link's attacks.

Finally, if sonic has too many weak attacks and shouldn't be considered 1st tier, then CFalcon should be godlike. He's basically a taller version of Sonic with stronger attacks, a zero-to-death combo, and 2 of the best aerials in the game.
Oh, and before I forget, FALCON PUNCH!!

 

[GangsterPuff]

Allright, what you have say have been an issue for all heavy weights, DK had a decent recovery, it can't really be gimp other than from above, it had no landing lag on stage, his move all covers a lot of range and all of them are also really fast, and most of all, his punch which I've mentioned before had a gigantic hit box, is as powerful as jiggly's rest, have super armor, and unlike jiggle can't really be punished. CF is alittle low on the tier, he can combo, but mine had trouble approaching and most of his moves all also out ranged by some other characters that should deserve the top tier. Oh yeah and, one evidence that the tier list is wrong is that peach is bottom tier.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Extremely strong offense for extremely weak defense. The bizzare thing about DK. And for CFalcon, I usually approach with a short hopped nair or uair since they have decent range so that I can start a chain grab or zero to death combo. You can also use Falcon kick to out prioritize certain projectiles or for a little Super Armor. He has amazing mobility and dash speed, so you should use that to your advantage when approaching.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Extremely strong offense for extremely weak defense. The bizzare thing about DK. And for CFalcon, I usually approach with a short hopped nair or uair since they have decent range so that I can start a chain grab or zero to death combo. You can also use Falcon kick to out prioritize certain projectiles or for a little Super Armor. He has amazing mobility and dash speed, so you should use that to your advantage when approaching.

DK has weak defense? He had the biggest shelid, a long grab range, tilts that outranges all other character, and the downB that covers even more than brawl's downB. Also, what's a zero to death combo? It appears you are a sora main from your channel I watched.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

DK has weak defense? He had the biggest shelid, a long grab range, tilts that outranges all other character, and the downB that covers even more than brawl's downB. Also, what's a zero to death combo? It appears you are a sora main from your channel I watched.

Um, basically, a zero-to-death combo is a combo that starts at 0% damage and ends when the opponent flies into the blast zone. Many characters with high speed, chain grabs, drills, and moves that can be Short Hopped Fast Falled (SHFFL) can do these kind of combos. Characters that have fast falling speeds and are bulky in size are prone to these zero-to-death combos.

DK is the biggest out of the entire cast so far, and I have actually faced him with many characters such as Fox, Link, Sora, CFalcon, Mega Man, Mario, and even Ness. His big shield doesn't seem all that great if you're opponents can grab you out of your shield, and most DK players rarely use his down b because of it's starting lag and cooldown. Many of his moves can be punished hard when they miss, and he can do zippity zat against projectiles.

DK has great aerials though, and most of his combos are devastating, but he has trouble approaching, and when he's off the ledge, all you can do is hope for good luck. This is what I mean by strong offense and weak defense.

 

[GangsterPuff]

Um, basically, a zero-to-death combo is a combo that starts at 0% damage and ends when the opponent flies into the blast zone. Many characters with high speed, chain grabs, drills, and moves that can be Short Hopped Fast Falled (SHFFL) can do these kind of combos. Characters that have fast falling speeds and are bulky in size are prone to these zero-to-death combos.

DK is the biggest out of the entire cast so far, and I have actually faced him with many characters such as Fox, Link, Sora, CFalcon, Mega Man, Mario, and even Ness. His big shield doesn't seem all that great if you're opponents can grab you out of your shield, and most DK players rarely use his down b because of it's starting lag and cooldown. Many of his moves can be punished hard when they miss, and he can do zippity zat against projectiles.

DK has great aerials though, and most of his combos are devastating, but he has trouble approaching, and when he's off the ledge, all you can do is hope for good luck. This is what I mean by strong offense and weak defense.

I understand what a 0-death combo is, I just mean how do you pull it out, you made it sound super easy to do. Oh yeah and with DK, you just want to outrange your opponent, D-B isn't that slow, he can use his tilts which are fast to approach and defend himself, his up-B Nado on ground also keeps opponents away, and for approach, I suggest just spamming dash attacks, when your opponent is near you, use you tilts and rely on your own grab range, DK's throws are also really good. Also, power sheild reflect projectiles now, so characters with projectiles shouldn't rely solely on that.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

I understand what a 0-death combo is, I just mean how do you pull it out, you made it sound super easy to do. Oh yeah and with DK, you just want to outrange your opponent, D-B isn't that slow, he can use his tilts which are fast to approach and defend himself, his up-B Nado on ground also keeps opponents away, and for approach, I suggest just spamming dash attacks, when your opponent is near you, use you tilts and rely on your own grab range, DK's throws are also really good. Also, power sheild reflect projectiles now, so characters with projectiles shouldn't rely solely on that.

I can understand that. You seem very persistent on defending DK, and I would counter your dash attack approach with the fact that it sounds very predictable and easy to read (Nair or Bair is probably a better approach), but Im kinda getting tired of the back and forwardness with this discussion.

I hope the tier list and matchups (maybe AI, too) are a little cleaner when the official 1.0 version of SSF2 comes out.

 

[[TSON]]

Lloyd not only has one of the worst recoveries but is also one of the lightest characters in the game. He is one of the best at offense but he's way too light to say that he's OP. He can be gimped at like 30-40% by most of the cast and dies at 80% to most strong attacks.

Sonic, Jigglypuff and Pikachu are the best characters this demo. It's undisputed by anyone in our competitive community/BR.