Super Smash Con 2015

[Combo Blaze]

We'd still run the chance of having something like 3 good players in a pool where only two players can come out of it.

 

[Han Solo]

If Isai alted, would you guys think, "Isai is such a **** for alting. This is going to throw the tourney results way off" or "man, it's so cool Isai surprised us like this. I can't wait to play him"?

 

[Fireblaster]

But if we had round robin pools...

If we had round robin pools karajan's move would have still kept weedwack or another equally deserving player out of top 64 bracket.

If Isai alted, would you guys think, "Isai is such a **** for alting. This is going to throw the tourney results way off" or "man, it's so cool Isai surprised us like this. I can't wait to play him"?

A lot of people have noticed isai's anti-tournament stance in the recent past and I don't think I'm crazy when I say I'm not the only one that would go for the former in your statement. Isai is a great player and everything but he does not deserve special treatment and he should not have excuses made for him if he attempted something that if done by anyone else it would make them look like an asshole.

If the tournament had a total of 1024 entrants, Isai would face a total of 10 people on his way to and including winner's finals. That's 10 people out of 1024. No, I don't think many people would be happy about that surprise seeing as they'll have a less than 1% chance of facing him. Not only that, if he faced boomfan or some other ridiculous top player round 1 or 2 and won, that means a stupid and inaccurate losers bracket and another poor player getting screwed over when he should have deserved getting much higher.

 

[Combo Blaze]

If Isai alted, would you guys think, "Isai is such a **** for alting. This is going to throw the tourney results way off" or "man, it's so cool Isai surprised us like this. I can't wait to play him"?

I would be pissed that I'd get knocked out of pools while han solo makes it to top 32 because I had to face Isai and tacos while han solo only had to face boom and literalwho69 in pools/brackets.

 

[Han Solo]

Some people put too much emphasis on tournament placing. If you're not first, you're last. If you truly want to be competitive, your goal should be "I'm going to beat Isai" and not "I want to see how many people I can beat other than Boom and Isai."

I just used Isai as an example because he's the best. Replace him with Boom, Gerson, Tavo, Jousuke, Wario, EmmiZhang or anyone else of that caliber of player or even several levels below them. If any player I want to play I was expecting not to see shows up, I'm going to think "Nice! Hopefully I get to play them" and not "**** this guy for messing with my tournament result".

 

[Fireblaster]

Some people put too much emphasis on tournament placing. If you're not first, you're last. If you truly want to be competitive, your goal should be "I'm going to beat Isai" and not "I want to see how many people I can beat other than Boom and Isai."

I just used Isai as an example because he's the best. Replace him with Boom, Gerson, Tavo, Jousuke, Wario, EmmiZhang or anyone else of that caliber of player or even several levels below them. If any player I want to play I was expecting not to see shows up, I'm going to think "Nice! Hopefully I get to play them" and not "**** this guy for messing with my tournament result".

Or I'll tell them they're a ****ing asshole because it's a $5000 tournament and they potentially screwed someone out of real money and a chance to prove themselves.

You should go back to pretending you were retired along with rob.

 

[Combo Blaze]

I can play them in friendlies. Same with the Hyrule/Saffron/7 stock items logic. Keep that **** in friendlies.

 

[Sedda]

ok we've heard why alting sucks, but I'm curious:

What's supposed to be good about alting? Other than "oh my geez people don't know that I'm coming to the tourney but I am WOOOO," I see absolutely no reason to do it.

 

[The Star King]

Some people put too much emphasis on tournament placing. If you're not first, you're last. If you truly want to be competitive, your goal should be "I'm going to beat Isai" and not "I want to see how many people I can beat other than Boom and Isai."

1. Not only 1st place gets payout, so people can actually get screwed out of real money because of dishonesty.
2. There's nothing wrong with measuring your self-improvement. "If you're not first, you're last" is a dumb mentality imo. Improvement is a gradual process, not an "either skilled or not" black and white thing.

 

[Han Solo]

You guys play this game for money? Really? Yeah, it's nice, but everyone posting here right now is probably hundreds or thousands of dollars in the red compared to how much they've won at tournies. Traveling, hotel, time, and effort are all costs. Most of us play for the competition.

@ The Star King , self-improvement shouldn't be measured in tournament result (unless maybe it's a complete RR tourney). I'm not saying if you don't win Apex, you suck.

@ Sedda , I'm not saying alting is good. It's not good or bad. I'm saying it's not worthy of being banned. If you play an alting Boom first round or if you play an alting Boom in WF, you should have the drive to beat him. You're not entitled to anything in tournament. You earn your placing no matter who you play regardless of how the bracket is seeded.

@ Fireblaster , at Zenith 2014, you told me you were glad I came and whenever I go to a tournament, it's more fun for you. If I had met you in first round of bracket and beat you, would that still be true? If everyone knew I was coming, and we still met in the first round of bracket and I won, would anything be different? Do you value your tournament placing over the time spent with your smash brothers and friends?

I may have misjudged this community.

 

[MrMarbles]

You guys play this game for money? Really? Yeah, it's nice, but everyone posting here right now is probably hundreds or thousands of dollars in the red compared to how much they've won at tournies. Traveling, hotel, time, and effort are all costs. Most of us play for the competition.

@ The Star King , self-improvement shouldn't be measured in tournament result (unless maybe it's a complete RR tourney). I'm not saying if you don't win Apex, you suck.

@ Sedda , I'm not saying alting is good. It's not good or bad. I'm saying it's not worthy of being banned. If you play an alting Boom first round or if you play an alting Boom in WF, you should have the drive to beat him. You're not entitled to anything in tournament. You earn your placing no matter who you play regardless of how the bracket is seeded.

@ Fireblaster , at Zenith 2014, you told me you were glad I came and whenever I go to a tournament, it's more fun for you. If I had met you in first round of bracket and beat you, would that still be true? If everyone knew I was coming, and we still met in the first round of bracket and I won, would anything be different? Do you value your tournament placing over the time spent with your smash brothers and friends?

I may have misjudged this community.

it's fine if you dont wanna measure your progress with tourney results, but a lot of us do inclusing myself. i dont see anything wrong with that

 

[Combo Blaze]

Do you value your tournament placing over the time spent with your smash brothers and friends?

Yeah lets have fun like we usually do, just hope you don't mind getting DQ'd for alting against me!

It's not like tournament placing matters to you right?

 

[Han Solo]

You guys won't have to worry about me alting at a tournament ever again.

 

[Sedda]

Self-improvement shouldn't be measured in tournament results where there is random seeding because you could play Isai first round of winners and Z in losers.I think it's reasonable to measure improvement in results from a tournament that was properly seeded, so I simply disagree with you there. I'm not saying that tournament are everything, but again, it would be reasonable to measure skill with tournament results.

and dude you can't say stuff like "you guys play this game for money," or "I may have misjudged this community" when you're THE guy who's always begging for RR pools and ****. Which side of the argument are you on?

I personally don't play for money, but, I mean, it is a tournament. Why would you enter a tournament if not to improve/see how high you could place/potentially win money. Might as well pay the venue fee and play friendlies only.

Your point of view of alting is basically "I want to have all the power and none of the liability and it's not my fault if you get mad after running into me in bracket because you should care more about spending time with your smash bros."

 

[Han Solo]

and dude you can't say stuff like "you guys play this game for money," or "I may have misjudged this community" when you're THE guy who's always begging for RR pools and ****. Which side of the argument are you on?

I personally don't play for money, but, I mean, it is a tournament. Why would you enter a tournament if not to improve/see how high you could place/potentially win money. Might as well pay the venue fee and play friendlies only.

Your point of view of alting is basically "I want to have all the power and none of the liability and it's not my fault if you get mad after running into me in bracket because you should care more about spending time with your smash bros."

I don't see how begging for RR pools has anything to do with not agreeing with people playing this game for money.

And yeah, that's basically my view, but I don't know what you mean by having "all the power and none of the liability". I don't have the power to choose who I play with alting. I can very well go two and out. It's not a sure thing I get a better bracket.

 

[Fireblaster]

You guys play this game for money? Really? Yeah, it's nice, but everyone posting here right now is probably hundreds or thousands of dollars in the red compared to how much they've won at tournies. Traveling, hotel, time, and effort are all costs. Most of us play for the competition.

Would you think it's okay for a friend to screw you out of hundreds or thousand of dollars just because "he wanted to have fun"? Also, alting and money aren't directly related to competition. I always play to compete in tournaments regardless of whether there's money or not, seeded well or seeded horribly.

@ Fireblaster , at Zenith 2014, you told me you were glad I came and whenever I go to a tournament, it's more fun for you. If I had met you in first round of bracket and beat you, would that still be true? If everyone knew I was coming, and we still met in the first round of bracket and I won, would anything be different? Do you value your tournament placing over the time spent with your smash brothers and friends?

I may have misjudged this community.

I'm glad that you showed up because you're a cool person IRL. You were lucky that no one called you out on your alting at zenith because star king happened to be absent from your pool so revan took his seed and you took revan's previous seed and there were no real issues there. If I had to face you first round and lost due to your alting, yes I would have thought you pulled a douchebag move.

Do you value your tournament placing over the time spent with your smash brothers and friends?

I may have misjudged this community.

Why are you making this about tournament placement vs fun? Why can't you just ****ing show up and let people know you're going to show up like everyone else? Does that make it somehow "anti-fun"?

Do you know what I did at apex 2015? I spent nearly 3 days playing constant friendlies with all kinds of people. Then I spent 1 day playing in a singles tournament. Go ahead and tell me how I had zero fun. Please tell me that it's more fun to hide your identity and then screw some player over by making him get an unusually low placing and tell him "lol if you're not first you're last"

 

[Han Solo]

When I alted for Zenith, it was supposed to be fun. I told everyone I wasn't going. No one thought I was going. It was going to be a surprise that I was there. The response to that was overwhelmingly negative. Rather than focusing on good ol' solo showing up hanging out with his buddies, people focused on me being a piece of **** alter potentially ruining someone's tourney experience.

People play this game for different reasons, and I realize that now.

 

[MrMarbles]

When I alted for Zenith, it was supposed to be fun. I told everyone I wasn't going. No one thought I was going. It was going to be a surprise that I was there. The response to that was overwhelmingly negative. Rather than focusing on good ol' solo showing up hanging out with his buddies, people focused on me being a piece of **** alter potentially ruining someone's tourney experience.

People play this game for different reasons, and I realize that now.

just tell the TO that you are alting so you get seeded properly duhhh

 

[Combo Blaze]

lmao han solo rage quitting cus he sux. bet he lost to wilde at a local tourny too


Seriously though that's a ***** way to go out Mark. People obviously enjoy hanging out outside of the tournament and are glad when people who weren't going to make it show up. We just don't want the tournament itself being ruined for people due to alting screwing up brackets. Stop being so selfish you ****ing ****.

 

[weedwack]

Alting is childish and selfish, and I'm amazed that this is something that still has to be explained.

Feeling like a renegade comes at a cost that somebody else pays.

And I'm not "entitled" to anything at a tournament? Did you forget that we pay money to play in seeded tournaments?

Most importantly, don't tell people what to value in their tournament experience, and don't tell people how to feel about their placing. It's incredibly self-righteous.

 

[ZomBiehn]

Ill be attending with 4 others for my bachelor party, besides Evo and E3 SmashCon should be one of the biggest events of the year, Can't wait

 

[Shears]

Did Solo Sangoku ban himself? Either way, I don't really agree with alting but it does have a strategy that someone in favor of alting could argue. I posted and explained it after Apex and to quote here is the explanation I gave about alting:

Usually when someone alts it is to troll the bracket and pool. They think its funny sabotaging it or surprising people and getting them to believe they weren't attending.

Other times a middle of the pack or no name smasher might alt because its not going to effect the outcome much but they don't want to get a fully appropriate seed in their first tournament so they can surprise people and out do their seeding.

Rarely, alting is done because someone wants to remain anonymous before the tournament because they are afraid of the reception they will get if people knew they were attending. For example, @MATTS! may have attended in person tournaments for all we know and just alted so no one would know who he is. Certainly this is unlikely, but it is a possibility.

99/100 alting is done for personal reasons that are not about gaining a competitive advantage and merely about either trolling or being secretive. However, alting can have some strategic uses. I compare it to straddling in poker. Like straddling, alting can be costly as you face a bigger challenge right from the beginning, but if you make it out and win, you have a favorable position for the rest of the tournament. A poker player straddles to raise the stakes and move where betting starts and ends, this is risky because the straddler is on the hook for more money in the beginning (like alting and facing a 1 seed early on), but if the straddler has good cards (has a favorable matchup and plays well) they can win the hand and be an early chip leader while taking a larger chunk out of the other players (beating the 1 seed and now having the easiest matchups through the tournament by being the seed leader). Like alting where you choose to alt before knowing the bracket and where you will be seeded, a straddler doesn't know their cards when choosing to straddle which increases the risk. Alting now becomes a gamble that can either play in their favor or really hurt their chances.

Either way, I haven't heard of many people alting as a strategic move to gain a competitive advantage, usually its done to damage the integrity of the bracket, but for anyone who is pro-alting, you now have material to argue with in your favor.

Regardless, for most players they aren't entering tournament to win, they are entering to improve upon their placement from previous tournaments. They say "I got X at the last big tournament, my goal is to now get Y" and if an alt comes in and they get Z, which is worse than X, even if they have an excuse because there was an alt that screwed them up, it is an unfulfilling experience and puts a bad taste in their mouth the rest of the time. You want to surprise everyone, alt, tell the TOs for appropriate seeding, and surprise everyone. I don't know if alting should be made illegal but its definitely frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.

 

[Sedda]

I believe the right terminology is "did han solo sangoku himself?" not "sangoku banned"

and yeah this is pretty much a good sign that han solo is going to alt at the next tournament

 

[KeroKeroppi]

 

[Morin0]

I bought my plane ticket. Varazers decided not to go. He might make an appearance in August though.

You guys think he's going to get a refund?

 

[Dark Horse]

This beard needs to be behind the commentating table

 

[banze]

If I spend hundreds of dolars on a plane ticket, book my work vacation, train my ass off the entire year to get better at the game and eventually get better placement, for me and the peeps back home that are cheering for me, and got Isai first round and boom second, ending at 100th something something instead of 9th. Yes, it would be very frustated and very pissoff.

I want to play other high caliber players in tournament and see how it goes ... losing to isai and boom dont tell me nothing more that I already know. Playing friendlys is entirely different from playing tournament on stream. I want that experience.
Yes it is important for me to get 9th over 13th and bring hype to my scene here.
it helps the all community to grow and keep us aiming for higher. until some day you can possibly beat those guys since you had so much tournament hype matches experiences.
It gives me fuel to keep training and improving.

just want to say all that.
be cool, dont alt please... thanks =]

 

[Fireblaster]

Usually when someone alts it is to troll the bracket and pool. They think its funny sabotaging it or surprising people and getting them to believe they weren't attending.

Other times a middle of the pack or no name smasher might alt because its not going to effect the outcome much but they don't want to get a fully appropriate seed in their first tournament so they can surprise people and out do their seeding.

Rarely, alting is done because someone wants to remain anonymous before the tournament because they are afraid of the reception they will get if people knew they were attending. For example, @MATTS! may have attended in person tournaments for all we know and just alted so no one would know who he is. Certainly this is unlikely, but it is a possibility.

99/100 alting is done for personal reasons that are not about gaining a competitive advantage and merely about either trolling or being secretive. However, alting can have some strategic uses. I compare it to straddling in poker. Like straddling, alting can be costly as you face a bigger challenge right from the beginning, but if you make it out and win, you have a favorable position for the rest of the tournament. A poker player straddles to raise the stakes and move where betting starts and ends, this is risky because the straddler is on the hook for more money in the beginning (like alting and facing a 1 seed early on), but if the straddler has good cards (has a favorable matchup and plays well) they can win the hand and be an early chip leader while taking a larger chunk out of the other players (beating the 1 seed and now having the easiest matchups through the tournament by being the seed leader). Like alting where you choose to alt before knowing the bracket and where you will be seeded, a straddler doesn't know their cards when choosing to straddle which increases the risk. Alting now becomes a gamble that can either play in their favor or really hurt their chances.

Either way, I haven't heard of many people alting as a strategic move to gain a competitive advantage, usually its done to damage the integrity of the bracket, but for anyone who is pro-alting, you now have material to argue with in your favor.

Actually, that's not really an argument to be FOR alting:

 

[Shears]

I'm not for alting, I'm just saying there can be an argument made to defend it. Although I agree that the arguments against it are much greater, there exists a possible strategy in it even if no one ever alts for that reason.

But either way, I agree with the smashcon rule to ban alting.

 

[MrMarbles]

any idea what the scheduling will be like for the tournament itself? Looks like i have a final exam on Thursday august 6th and im wondering if this will conflict with anything 64 since i wouldnt be able to get there till thursday night at the earliest now

 

[Fireblaster]

I think it's most likely the tournament won't start until friday. Usually at conventions major events don't start on thursday

 

[Shears]

The schedule of events should be posted once all the details are worked out. Tentatively, which there really won't be any change to the tournament schedule, tournament will be Friday through Sunday. The tentative schedule has 64 with more than favorable time slots, in fact it could be argued that 64 has better time slots than melee. 64 is getting preferential treatment for Smash Con. If 64 was related to Justin, the guy running all of Smash Con, this would be considered nepotism. But yeah, expect everything to be Friday and Saturday for 64.

 

[nickthename]

I don't know if alting should be made illegal but its definitely frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane.

If 64 was related to Justin, the guy running all of Smash Con, this would be considered nepotism.

Shears why can't you be this funny in real life

 

[Shears]

Shears why can't you be this funny in real life

Because I'm funnier in person.

 

[Sedda]

Because I'm funnier in person while drunk.

fixed that for u bby

 

[anonymouschris01]

Was about to register for smashcon and is it seriously $95 ****ing dollars if I want to play in the tournaments? And do I need to register for the weekend pass to get a tournament spot? There's absolutely no way I'm going to be able to be there Thursday through Sunday. Seems like a pretty sleezy way to get more money out of people. It's not like I don't have the money for it, or that I won't have a good time just because it was expensive. But that seems like a bit much. Here I am trying to get a lot of our crew to go, and I feel like at that price plus hotel fees for multiple nights this is quickly becoming quite an expense, and is definitely going to deter some of our players. I'm also not totally sold on the whole "convention" aspect. I feel like it could go either really well, or just feel like a tacky add on to what most people are just going to see as a tournament, no in between. All I want to do is go and play some friendlies and see how well I do in the bracket. I don't care at all about music or panels, or other old school games. I just want to play with my friends and make some new ones. Sorry if I sound like an ass, but am I wrong here?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

k I booked vacation for this event. Let's see if it goes through.

 

[Shears]

SSC doesn't plan on releasing entrant and registration list for a variety of reasons so I figured we can try to tentatively compile our own. Reminder, the event is August 6-9 and 64 will have full time stream for top X (currently not released whether it will be 8 or 16 or whatever) and have the same starting time as every other game. It is located in Dulles, VA which is just outside DC. Again, there is a $5000 pot bonus which means if theres a possibility you can get top 8 you're getting a minimum of $125 with a minimum of $2000 going to first place. Please post if you are registered. I will update OP with list of entrants.

I've updated the OP with who has posted saying they will attend or I have talked to outside of this thread.

 

[Fireblaster]

SSC doesn't plan on releasing entrant and registration list for a variety of reasons so I figured we can try to tentatively compile our own. Reminder, the event is August 6-9 and 64 will have full time stream for top X (currently not released whether it will be 8 or 16 or whatever) and have the same starting time as every other game. It is located in Dulles, VA which is just outside DC. Again, there is a $5000 pot bonus which means if theres a possibility you can get top 8 you're getting a minimum of $125 with a minimum of $2000 going to first place. Please post if you are registered. I will update OP with list of entrants.

I've updated the OP with who has posted saying they will attend or I have talked to outside of this thread.

Can we get a number of people that are entering?

 

[MrMarbles]

Can we get a number of people that are entering?

as of may 15th there were 43 signed up for 64. idk what that number is now