Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Revealed at E3 2018

While Nintendo’s E3 presentation had a good enough start - we saw some neat indie games, received more information on Pokemon Let’s Go Pikachu and Let’s Go Eevee, got our first look at Fire Emblem: Three Houses and Super Mario Party, and even saw the announcement of some ports of high-profile third-party games like Fortnite and Dragon Ball FighterZ - the real star of the show came at the end, with a 25 minute long look at the new Super Smash Bros. title.

First teased during the May 8th, 2018 Nintendo Direct, we’ve finally received some concrete information about the new Smash game, titled Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, which is set to release on December 7th, 2018. The presentation came with a plethora of information about the game, with a detailed look at the game’s characters and system mechanics, with plenty of stages, items and assist trophies revealed along the way.

Characters​

After a brief introduction featuring Masahiro Sakurai, viewers are treated to a series of clips showcasing each character, including the first major announcement regarding the game’s roster: every character from throughout the entire series will be returning, including characters like Snake, Pichu and Young Link that only appeared in one game.

On top of that, observant viewers may notice that while every other character was numbered based on when they were first introduced in Smash, this isn’t the case for Dark Pit or Lucina, who instead shared Pit and Marth’s respective numbers with an epsilon symbol next to it. This is because of the addition of echo fighters - a formal categorization for clones that only have small differences from the original character. For now, we don’t know what exactly this means for their place in the roster, but we do know who the game’s first new echo fighter is - Daisy!

We also got a more in-depth look at the Inklings. Their specials and smash attacks use different weapons from Splatoon, including the splattershot as their neutral-special and an ink roller for what appears to be a side special. Any opponents who get inked by these moves take additional damage from the Inklings’ attacks, adding a dynamic element to the character.

At the end of the presentation, we also got a look at Ultimate’s next newcomer: Ridley. While Sakurai has previously stated that he and his team couldn’t find a way to faithfully represent Ridley in Smash, it looks like that has changed, and impressively so.

System Mechanics​

After the character showcase, we got a look at several universal mechanics - some of them new, others returning from previous games. Every character now has an attack they can use while climbing ladders, and all smash attacks can now be used while dashing.

The most prominent returning mechanic is directional air dodges. Like in Super Smash Bros. Melee, holding a direction while performing an air dodge will make the character shift their momentum in that direction - though unlike Melee, this also comes with a small movement in the opposite direction beforehand. According to several players who got a chance to play the game at E3, no momentum is retained while air dodging into the ground, so while you can use this directional air dodge to waveland, you can't use it to wavedash.

Dodges also now stale in Ultimate - the more frequently you use them, the longer the animation and the fewer intangibility frames you have. This applies to both air dodges and dodge rolls. Perfect shielding has also received an overhaul - it's now performed by lowering your shield right before a move hits.

Author's Note: We'll surely be receiving more information about Ultimate leading up to its December 7th release date, so stay tuned. Until then, what was your favorite part of the presentation we saw?

 

Somehow, out of all the Melee players, no one picked Fox, which I found disappointing.

According to Tafo's play-testing, Fox is veeeery bad in SSBU or whatever it is called. Marth appears to be great again tho, but idk for sure.

 

And kudos for that, dude.

Indeed it does. It also has old mechanics, like rage. I wonder what your point is.

Good thing it isn't and is a non-issue this time around. He fixed that mistake a long time ago, yet more remain untouched, evidently.

It's 2018 and people are still using this as an argument.
How would you feel if people with lower standards than yourself were pleased by the developers of a game you really like putting out a lower quality product than you absolutely know they could have produced, yet then try to silence criticism of that product by appealing to "real fans" arguments and telling you to just accept the changes and buy the game or not? Because that's exactly what you just did.

I'd adapt sometimes that's all we can do.

 

From what I saw, it wasn't shot like a tournament. I wasn't watching the whole thing all the way through. I went back in time to the end of the Splatoon 2 tournament and scanned from there. What I saw was a lot of Doubles matches with a lot of random character picks. Somehow, out of all the Melee players, no one picked Fox, which I found disappointing.
They had a little skit where Nairo went against three casuals in a 3 on 1 versus.
The only single matches of the tourney I saw were Plup and MK Leo Loser's Finals and Grand Finals. It was pretty lame, especially since Plup got washed by Bayonetta.

Well shoot... At least we got a good look at the game mechanics right?

 

I'd adapt sometimes that's all we can do.

You shouldn't be defeatist dude. I think part of why Sakurai doesn't listen is indeed partially because he willfully will not listen, but also because too many people are willing to put up with whatever he initially gives them, and put him on a pedestal. It's like they are afraid of speaking ill of his work.

According to Tafo's play-testing, Fox is veeeery bad in SSBU or whatever it is called. Marth appears to be great again tho, but idk for sure.

Daddy strikes again. I think he just hates Star Fox.

Well shoot... At least we got a good look at the game mechanics right?

Yep, and it ain't looking good if you wanted less of the same.

 

You shouldn't be defeatist dude. I think part of why Sakurai doesn't listen is indeed partially because he willfully will not listen, but also because too many people are willing to put up with whatever he initially gives them, and put him on a pedestal. It's like they are afraid of speaking ill of his work.

Oh don't get me wrong I will speak my mind about the game and his choices till the cows come home but in the end it's his game and rather he listen what i have to say or not is all on the guy himself , I never understood why people see him that way.

 

Oh don't get me wrong I will speak my mind about the game and his choices till the cows come home but in the end it's his game and rather he listen what i have to say or not is all on the guy himself , I never understood why people see him that way.

Yeah... Bummer that

Oh don't get me wrong I will speak my mind about the game and his choices till the cows come home but in the end it's his game and rather he listen what i have to say or not is all on the guy himself , I never understood why people see him that way.

Yeah... Wanted for it to be a tad more competitive tbh, also yeah... Sakurai might have created the concept behind Super Smash Bros. but that doesn't make him the only person who can make the definitive experience...
I mean... He was behind Brawl... And is against the competitive scene, Smash has a lot of potencial in that regard... Maybe he is afraid that if he does something as "complex" as melee again, people will drop off the game or something, but come on... Casuals get crushed online or in a tourney and then they go back to play with their friends, so that would not be an issue. Maybe Smash needs a new director...

 

Maybe Smash needs a new director

It does but it's likely too late for that now. Who knows what's going to be the state of things in the industry 5 years from now. This might be the last official Smash game.

 

It does but it's likely too late for that now. Who knows what's going to be the state of things in the industry 5 years from now. This might be the last official Smash game.

Let's wait for Project M Ultimate. then

 

.......ugh, it's one thing for a game to at least try to strike a middle ground, but sometimes, it's like there's a lot of people who want to be met all the way to be accepting... and that can often come across as very arrogant to the average player's eyes. condemning someone just because it's not exactly what you want is not going to grant any wishes, and flinging insults in response is not helping by any stretch.

Now I personally think some of the mechanics in this demo are questionable, but because it's a demo, it leaves some room for improvement. I for one am not for seeking a full-on Melee 2.0, but I can draw upon what fans do themselves and meet them halfway.

among what I've witnessed myself, the return of directional air dodging is a step in the right direction, coupling that with landing lag and Dodge scaling effectively nerfs wavelanding. now someone said that wavedashing can't be done cause momentum isn't retained, I would suggest that momentum be retained, but also retain the landing lag as a sort of limit... it's fine to use that as a quick step and slip past some attacks, but I don't think it should render spotdodging useless as a result.

the Perfect Shield adjustments strike me as a bit peculiar, being that it works by letting go of your block this time around, I think if it were possible to perfect shield both when putting up the shield and letting go, it would be a potent defense that rewards accurate timing.

the way getting launched works in Ultimate is easily the one thing that bugs me most, and it isn't just me. I'll have little problem about how launching itself appears, but it's the almost immediate stop in mid-air a victim gets when they reach the end of it that needs adjusting. If that rapid deceleration gets seriously toned down, THEN I can probably excuse it.

overall, the demo shows promise in my mind, but it still needs work. I'm still hoping that the game as a whole has a well thought out single player element that can provide newcomers a means to jump in and get a handle on the gameplay themselves, like an Adventure mode that can unlock a large amount of the 65 fighter cast. some of the choices are going in a good direction to me, and I think what needs to be done on our end is to come to an agreement on what constitutes a middle ground. this game is not going to be Melee 2.0, but it's also not going to be Brawl 2.0, we can still help make it something great... but condemnation and bickering isn't gonna get anything helpful across.

 

the Perfect Shield adjustments strike me as a bit peculiar, being that it works by letting go of your block this time around, I think if it were possible to perfect shield both when putting up the shield and letting go, it would be a potent defense that rewards accurate timing.

One can only speculate why the developers implemented this change, when other games with Parry mechanics do it the first way.
You know me---I have no theories with a positive spin.

 

.......ugh, it's one thing for a game to at least try to strike a middle ground, but sometimes, it's like there's a lot of people who want to be met all the way to be accepting... and that can often come across as very arrogant to the average player's eyes. condemning someone just because it's not exactly what you want is not going to grant any wishes, and flinging insults in response is not helping by any stretch.

Now I personally think some of the mechanics in this demo are questionable, but because it's a demo, it leaves some room for improvement. I for one am not for seeking a full-on Melee 2.0, but I can draw upon what fans do themselves and meet them halfway.

among what I've witnessed myself, the return of directional air dodging is a step in the right direction, coupling that with landing lag and Dodge scaling effectively nerfs wavelanding. now someone said that wavedashing can't be done cause momentum isn't retained, I would suggest that momentum be retained, but also retain the landing lag as a sort of limit... it's fine to use that as a quick step and slip past some attacks, but I don't think it should render spotdodging useless as a result.

the Perfect Shield adjustments strike me as a bit peculiar, being that it works by letting go of your block this time around, I think if it were possible to perfect shield both when putting up the shield and letting go, it would be a potent defense that rewards accurate timing.

the way getting launched works in Ultimate is easily the one thing that bugs me most, and it isn't just me. I'll have little problem about how launching itself appears, but it's the almost immediate stop in mid-air a victim gets when they reach the end of it that needs adjusting. If that rapid deceleration gets seriously toned down, THEN I can probably excuse it.

overall, the demo shows promise in my mind, but it still needs work. I'm still hoping that the game as a whole has a well thought out single player element that can provide newcomers a means to jump in and get a handle on the gameplay themselves, like an Adventure mode that can unlock a large amount of the 65 fighter cast. some of the choices are going in a good direction to me, and I think what needs to be done on our end is to come to an agreement on what constitutes a middle ground. this game is not going to be Melee 2.0, but it's also not going to be Brawl 2.0, we can still help make it something great... but condemnation and bickering isn't gonna get anything helpful across.

I liked the game, already pre-ordered it, but it could be better in the technical side, as far as fan service goes it meet my expectations and crushed them, I was no hoping for melee 2.0 but for a great, depth, competitive Smash game and by the looks of it, this is not it... For now... I really appreciate that the game is now pushing for an aggressive playstyle and punishing dodges, that was a pain in Smash 4 online.

 

I liked the game, already pre-ordered it, but it could be better in the technical side, as far as fan service goes it meet my expectations and crushed them, I was no hoping for melee 2.0 but for a great, depth, competitive Smash game and by the looks of it, this is not it... For now... I really appreciate that the game is now pushing for an aggressive playstyle and punishing dodges, that was a pain in Smash 4 online.

and that's basically what I mean when I say it's "a step in the right direction". the Demo shows the overall style of the game, and the fanservice indeed delivered and then some. the game's still not finished, so it's perfectly possible to make recommendations on what would appeal to the veteran fans without alienating more casual players.

I would start by asking these: what do you define as a "Great, depth, competitive Smash"? what constitutes depth in your perspective?

 

and that's basically what I mean when I say it's "a step in the right direction". the Demo shows the overall style of the game, and the fanservice indeed delivered and then some. the game's still not finished, so it's perfectly possible to make recommendations on what would appeal to the veteran fans without alienating more casual players.

I would start by asking these: what do you define as a "Great, depth, competitive Smash"? what constitutes depth in your perspective?

Well good question... Maybe a tad bit of less knockback on the normals, so that way you can combo and let the "rage" mechanic only buff the knockback on Smash attacks... That would be a good start... Also some sort of L Canceling, some characters like Ganondorf really benefited from that...

 

Smash Ultimate gameplay footage with Armada and more
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXzlF9_8Ezs

Shows off the wavelanding.

 

Dull. Looks like tra5h.

I don't care to go through the issues unprompted, but take a look at staling dodges: what is that a solution to? The spamming of dodges. What was that a solution to? The lack of mobility options like dash dancing and wavedashing. Sakurai just solved a problem that arose from a problem he himself created. What is this guy smoking.

I haven't even logged in for like, 3-4 years, but this made me, lul.

The fact that you're already dubbing it 'tra5h' before the game's even out just shows your Melee elitism. Which honestly pains me since I love Melee as much as the next guy, but this "Melee is the only game that matters, all other games are trash" is just a really, really toxic mindset to the competitive crowd.

Hey, I won't argue that Melee is the best of the Smash games mechanically, but you should never expect fighting games to ever match their prior installments, look at Marvel vs Capcom 2 being the superior game to 3 or Infinite, or Street Fighter 2 being superior to every Street Fighter game since. Newer fighting games will almost never live up to its prior installments; this is just something that has to be accepted. There will never be another official Melee, oh well. If you seriously need to scratch that itch, Melee and PM still exist. Yes, Sakurai 'could' do it again if regular fans do it, but he doesn't, just like how Capcom COULD make another GOOD Marvel game, but they don't.


And hey, not like Melee's competitive scene is ever going anywhere, so no reason to rain on people's parades that ARE happy about it by effectively calling their game ****. You're one of the very first posts people are going to see when they click this article; it's fine to be critical, but to just say "Game is trash, lul" is kinda taking the wind out of people that are excited. Rosterwise, and just contentwise in general, this is going to be the biggest Smash game, so how do you think people look at you/feel when they see one of the very first posts deeming the game to be hot garbage?


It's fine to be skeptical, but this isn't even the final build of the game. I don't expect 'a lot' to change in six months, but stuff can happen. Is it ever going to be Melee 2.0? Hell no, but a Melee 2.0, or Melee HD for that matter, is NEVER going to happen, so it's better to just move on from thinking that, IMO at least. It's not like Melee's competitive scene is ever going anywhere anyway.


And what really matters at the end of the day, is that the game's competitive community thrives. Melee and Smash4 both thrived fine at EVO, and I can see 5 doing fine replacing 4. It's not like something god-awful like tripping is in the game, after all. Smash 5 isn't going to cannibalize Melee's comp scene and vice-versa, both games will thrive fine at EVO for years to come unless there's something in this game which makes Smash 5 completely unplayable at a comp level like tripping(Which so far, there isn't).

 

I'm so, so happy! It's exactly what I'd want. My main wish on top of this is a good single player mode.

 

You're one of the very first posts people are going to see when they click this article

I know. It's awesome; I love it.

how do you think people look at you/feel when they see one of the very first posts deeming the game to be hot garbage?

Relieved that they've finally stumbled upon a post that isn't softcore shilling.

I haven't even logged in for like, 3-4 years, but this made me

Thanks for the (You); I'm flattered, and amused.

 

I know. It's awesome; I love it.


Relieved that they've finally stumbled upon a post that isn't softcore shilling.


Thanks for the (You); I'm flattered, and amused.

You forgot your greentexting.

 

You forgot your greentexting.

fixed

 

Well... I am desapointed that there is no wavedash... But, there is more to say. That kinda waveland could be useful if you could drop from platform from sliding. I guess the new mechanics for dodges aren't really a solution because it doesn't create movement options. The thres things that bother me the most are the ledge mechanic from sm4sh, the fact that no one doesn't before 150+% because of the large death lines and the fact that there is like no combo. Even up tilt spam from Mario doesn't work... add the weird deceleration of characters when taking knock back... it's sad because the game it itself looks pretty fast (characters fall and run pretty fast). I would have been ok with the game with no wavedash but with past ledge mechanics and real wavelands that let you slide off the platform

 

Dull. Looks like tra5h.

I don't care to go through the issues unprompted, but take a look at staling dodges: what is that a solution to? The spamming of dodges. What was that a solution to? The lack of mobility options like dash dancing and wavedashing. Sakurai just solved a problem that arose from a problem he himself created. What is this guy smoking.

View attachment 147962

>ur mean
Yeah, yeah. Read on if you want my fuller thoughts.

Oh boy, he made some small adjustments he must be on crack. Yes, small changes must mean that the game sucks!

 

Dull. Looks like tra5h.

I don't care to go through the issues unprompted, but take a look at staling dodges: what is that a solution to? The spamming of dodges. What was that a solution to? The lack of mobility options like dash dancing and wavedashing. Sakurai just solved a problem that arose from a problem he himself created. What is this guy smoking.

View attachment 147962

>ur mean
Yeah, yeah. Read on if you want my fuller thoughts.

Awwww, cry more.

 

My reaction to the trailer was something like this:

The graphical Style looks like Brawl x Smash 4, I was half right.
OK they are showing characters from most notable to least notable. I'm surprised Samus was shown second.
Hey, Bowser's final smash was changed! Thats not cool!
At least Link looks cool. Hey BotW stage!
That's not BotW Zelda. But I can live with this.
By this point I had also noticed the large amount of returning stages and thought that that was kind of odd.
I had also noted that Sheik had not been cut.
Mewtwo was not really a surprise. As I figured all of the DLC except Cloud and Ryu would return.
Even more returning stages...
Hey its Ice Climbers! How predictable!
Proof that Inkling will be playable. Not that we needed any.
Around the time Captain Falcon was shown I had noticed Luigi had been missing. Why was he missing?
Wii Fit wasn't cut. Are they actually not cutting anyone?
Hey Squirt... And Ivy... And... Pokemon Trainer is back? Wait a moment here...
Ryu is back. So they probably aren't cutting anyone.
Ganondorf, you look a little different.
Cloud is here. OK nobodys getting cut I'm calling it.
Wait. Snake. In Smash 5. Hang on a moment. 'Everyone is Here'? Does that mean EVERYONE?
Pichu is back. Wow they weren't lying.
Wait where is Luigi?
OK how many stages are returning? 30? 50?
Hey they are telling us Lucina and Dark Pit are clones. That's nice of them.
Game and Watch looks weird.
Where's Luigi?!?!?
Hey Dr. Mario doesn't have the clone mark. He's not a clone anymore!
More returning stages?!?!
Young Link! What are you doing here?
Ugh. Miis.
Wolf. OK. All cut characters have returned!
Hang on. Where. Is Luigi?
Oh there he is.
Oh crud I didn't even notice Yoshi wasn't here.

 

This looks very promising and definitely toolbox feedback on multiple titles.

I can’t wait with every character being back in the game. I’m so excited for Wolf.

 

I'm not a big fan of the way characters are knocked back in this iteration. They have extreme initial velocity, then extreme deceleration once they hit a certain distance (based on percent). It just looks bizarre compared to previous titles.

On the contrary, I love this effect. It gives the game such a smooth feel to me. That is how it struck me, anyway.

Edit: I hope that the blast zone mini map thing is able to be toggled. Personally, I don't like it.

 

To be fair, your assessment of the new game pretty much boiled down to cherry picking one of the new mechanics and lamenting the absence of older ones like wavedashing, which was unintentional in the first place.

How can people keep getting this wrong? Wavedashing was discovered during development and they left it in. On some level that implies intention.

 

I dont get why people want wavedashing in 5ma5h (i think thats better), it wasnt in brawl or wii u, so it seems like they have left the mechanic behind, and are focusing on something else, dont get angry at them for not bringing back a mechanic from melee, which was released in 2001.

 

Oh crud I didn't even notice Yoshi wasn't here.

The story of my life...

 

Maybe a tad bit of less knockback on the normals, so that way you can combo and let the "rage" mechanic only buff the knockback on Smash attacks... That would be a good start... Also some sort of L Canceling, some characters like Ganondorf really benefited from that...

that does sound like a good idea, although I have a slightly different belief when it comes to rage, in that the effect gets lessened, there's only two levels of effect (as opposed to Sm4sh's three, the latter one being possible to remove if backlash persists after, say, several months... like PM's patch schedule) and that it only applies to specific types of strikes. i also agree L-cancelling could be great to see, however, I also found a different perspective from Rivals of Aether in that there's so little landing lag that it wouldn't be needed.

for SSBUlt. (that's how I'll abbreviate it), if there is a best way to reduce aerial landing lag, I think it would be in the form of very slightly different animations that go at least a little faster than normal. I wouldn't say halve the landing lag like in Melee, maybe do something that cuts the time by a third or so...that way, it can benefit people who make good use of it... but not so much so that you're effectively boned if you're either new to it or flat out don't use it. think of it like having the matchup 45-65 in their favor if you don't use it, you can still win, it's just a bit tougher, y'know?

 

The weird thing about the perfect shields is that it's listed on the website as working as before. But they clearly showed footage of the new way.

???

 

I can't wait to see Princess Daisy tear through the competition with her flower power in Smash Bros. Ultimate! I, and so many others, were yearning for this moment to happen and I'm ecstatic that Daisy is finally here in Smash for the first time ever. It's all thanks to the We Are Daisy community for making it a reality.

 

Nope. I saw Zelda summon a Phantom so I don't think that's the case. It would be especially odd seeing A Link Between Worlds Zelda transform into Sheik since she is from a completely different game.

Oh lol thank god XD I must've been to excited to notice the details

 

The weird thing about the perfect shields is that it's listed on the website as working as before. But they clearly showed footage of the new way.

???

Maybe it works both ways?

 

I have a few misgivings about the game but, really, we haven’t seen anything yet. I’m really looking forward to these next 6 months. Once the final product is out, I’ll cast my judgement.

That being said, the game and title lends itself to being a sort of finale I think. It’s like “we got to this pinnacle, everyone is back, all the stages are back, we improved on things, we learned from the last titles (mostly), we have a all-star infinity war worthy roster, and we are including new content. What’s next? We don’t know.”

I think it will be a looooong time before we get another Smash after this. Maybe a skip in generation or something with a reboot a decade or so later.

 

On the contrary, I love this effect. It gives the game such a smooth feel to me. That is how it struck me, anyway.

Yeah the more I watch it, the more it starts to grow on me. It seems that players can act out of hit stun faster in real time, but the actual distance traveled is about the same as previous iterations. It makes games seem to flow much, much faster as a result.

 

So I'm new. This iteration has me intrigued as a Melee player from back in the day. I join up here, look at this thread, and am immediately reminded of why I no longer play Melee. I won't name names, but way to go. You know who you are. Thank you for showing the absolute worst of our base off. It's one thing not to like something, but to claim it objectively bad because it isn't up to your specific definition of what makes a good game is pompous at best. You can dislike the game over Melee. sure, but the attitude and lack of class you display are another thing entirely. This may shock you, but some actually are glad this isn't like Melee, and that does not make their taste in fighters wrong.

THAT BEING SAID...

Waluigi, RIP. Happy to see Daisy and what looks like, from all accounts, to be a highly competitive game when the speed is adjusted to.

 

Can anyone tell me about some new tech called Throw cancelling?

 

Can anyone tell me about some new tech called Throw cancelling?

It's called throw teching, and basically if you and your opponent tries to grab at the same time, nothing will happen and both characters will just reset to neutral stances. This basically happens in other 2D fighters like Street Fighter.

And by "same time", it appears to be ~1 frame window where this will happen.

This appears to be another nerf to grabs, as well as most throw combos being removed or having very minor utility. AFAIK grab games for most characters appear to be really bad in SSBU, so you are going to be forced to throw out hitboxes to do anything. This is subject to change before the release if people speak up about it.

Combos are really NOT looking good in this game...

 

It's called throw teching, and basically if you and your opponent tries to grab at the same time, nothing will happen and both characters will just reset to neutral stances. This basically happens in other 2D fighters like Street Fighter.

In the previous games, what happened if you and your opponent both grabbed at the same time?

 

In the previous games, what happened if you and your opponent both grabbed at the same time?

Whoever grabbed first won. In previous smash titles beside ssb4, there was grab invincibility/armor: if your character started a grab animation while your opponent was doing an attack, in SSB64 and Melee you would grab your opponent and not take any damage or knockback if your grab hitbox came out before the opponent's attack (grab invincibility), while in PM and Brawl you take damage but no knockback while still grabbing your opponent (grab armor). In Sm4sh attack hitbox takes priority over grab hitbox, so the grabbing character damage and knockback from the attacking hitbox, while the grabbed character will be released immediately and take 3% damage.

Grab/throw teching appears a continuation of the nerf on grabs initialized by Sm4sh.