Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[92MilesPrower]

Well, that just happened. Anyways, on the topic of 3rd parties, have you guys gone over the debate of whether a 3rd party franchise should be allowed more than 1 playable character or not? As much as I'd love to have the likes of Shadow, Knuckles, Zero or Protoman playable in Smash someday, I feel it's still too soon for that.

 

[Questionmark222]

Well, that just happened. Anyways, on the topic of 3rd parties, have you guys gone over the debate of whether a 3rd party franchise should be allowed more than 1 playable character or not? As much as I'd love to have the likes of Shadow, Knuckles, Zero or Protoman playable in Smash someday, I feel it's still too soon for that.

Definitely agree.

 

[IanTheGamer]

You were talking about what is possible and impossible two pages ago.

I will say something that probably at lot of you will not accept, but it's important to add: One of the best traits of Sakurai is being a "liar".

And I'm not saying that he does on purpose. What happens is that as a fanbase we search for everything he said back then as "The truth". And it was the truth most of the time, for that period. But as a regular person, what Sakurai thinks and defines for his games changes a lot.

One popular example is the Villager drama. When asked about why Villager was not present in Brawl he said "Villager is not a figther. I looked for characters that could work as figthers for this game." And is a good patern to Brawl newcomers (except Olimar).

With Smash4 his mind seems to be inclined to popularity and to represent more franchises. As a result we got less newcomers from series already represented.

What can we expect for Smash 5? I don't know. I really think this "must come from a videogame" thing will come down. Because is that what happened with every single "rule" to newcomers until now.

Oh god no, *throws up*, if that happens I will refuse to buy Smash. While Darth Vader, Iron Man, and The Terminator would be awesome in Smash, and Deadpool would be hilarious in Smash, it would make Smash Bros no longer about celebrating Nintendo's history and a showcase of it's All-Stars (with some 3rd Parties), it will be about jamming as many popular names as possible. Which would totally elminate one of Smash's main selling points

 

[CBO0tz]

Well, let's be honest. Banjo probably could have a lot of the same moves as Duck Hunt, were he to be added to the next game.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Well, let's be honest. Banjo probably could have a lot of the same moves as Duck Hunt, were he to be added to the next game.

Banjo does not summon cowboys, nor does he have exploding cans, a disk, or a fourth wall breaking gun.

Banjo-Kazooie and Duck Hunt only have superficial similarities in the mammal/avian duo department.

3rd party franchise should be allowed more than 1 playable character or not?

No.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Waluigi>All

Let us have a true dancer in Smash.

Sorry, but Waluigi's dance moves are weak compared to Poppi QTπ.

Spoiler: Poppi form

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I know I said I was signing off, but I gotta say,

It's really sad that there are actually people who actively want characters removed from Super Smash Bros. Especially for soulless reasons like how they fair on the tier list.

I gotta say, I've never ever wanted a character removed from Super Smash Bros. And I'm no fanboy. I think there are people who take video games way too seriously to a point where it's impossible to really enjoy anything.

I like to see things through the eyes of an innocent, open minded child, which is what Nintendo games are made for. When I played Star Fox Adventures as a kid for example, I wasn't I wasn't like "What?! This isn't Star Fox!" I was like "Oh, cool. Fox is having an adventure on a dinosaur planet. That's neat."

I feel bad for people who see things through the perspective of "Pichu?! He's just a crappier version of Pikachu! Why is Wii Fit Trainer in this game?! Nobody asked for her." Did I say I feel bad? Let me rephrase that. I feel bad for me.

When I was a kid, I loved playing as Pichu in Melee because I was more concerned with playing as the characters I love instead of the stupid technical bull **** that people try to turn Super Smash Bros into. Everyone in the competitive community just look at Smash characters as nothing more than an artificial combination of strategies.

So it really saddens me that people actively push for the removal of characters people love like Lucina because they think they are "Just a worse version of Marth. I don't want extra characters just to pad out the roster. I'd rather them be cut than have two Marths on the roster."

 

[Deleted member]

Pretty much what I've been saying.

That being said, there are non-video game characters that wouldn't be that bad when it comes to licensing. But someone like Goku is not one of them.

Could you give an example?

Im trying to think of one but i can't come up with anything.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I find the whole 3rd party debate to be really interesting. Some people want icons, others want their (insert 3rd party choice) here, while others want characters that aren't even video game characters.

You thought Bayonetta stood out?

Listen, everybody has their wants right? I freaking love Spider-Man, the Avengers, X-Men, all sorts of stuff. Hell, even Joe Biden might make an epic old-man fighter. But are we really looking for characters that aren't video game characters at their core? That's kinda sad, right? We know this to be true.

I have a friend who would sincerely love to see Goku in Smash (has even said he thinks there's a chance because Goku is a mascot of the upcoming Olympics*?), but every time I tell him it wouldn't make sense. There are tons of great characters out there that would be amazing 3rd party candidates. Crash is one of them (despite the fact that I'm not too sure of him happening!), and the fact that they're all passed over makes me incredibly sad.

To clarify, I'm totally in agreement that the roster should, at any given time, be largely Nintendo. I also don't think any 3rd party series should have more than one character. To me, that means no Tails, no Sephiroth (even though he'd be badass, my dudes), no Chun-Li, no Proto-Man. Nintendo should be the focus, but I don't think that means we need to decrease the 3rd parties we have. The ones we have (maybe not Bayonetta, but she's fun) are effectively legend status characters. No matter how you slice it, they're gaming powerhouses just like Mario, Pikachu or Link. We've gotten a handful of those. That, Smash fans, is something to be proud of.

Now, what I'm curious about is the future of 3rd parties. We've got the big names. If the contracts stay in place, it's even more epic. Now, adding to that, who's next in line?

I think it really depends on the direction Sakurai wants to take, what games he's played, what standards he abides by. He definitely views the 3rd parties as "a class of their own", which I believe he specifically said about Mega Man, but I can imagine would apply to Ryu, Pac-Man and Cloud. Bayonetta gets a pass here as the ballot winner. (Plz do not restart the futile debate about her actually winning the ballot. I really don't care, and it's irrelevant at this point anyway.)

There are quite a few gaming icons from 3rd party companies (as in, not Sony and Microsoft). You've got Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, Shovel Knight, even Lara Croft, or other characters that didn't/aren't planned to appear on Nintendo consoles like Tracer for Overwatch (freaking huge right now), and there is simply a wonderful array of characters to choose from.

We don't need Goku or Naruto, my dudes. (sorry, I just love saying my dudes...NOT TO MENTION IT'S STILL WEDNESDAY!)

I'm simply curious as to what would place future 3rd parties next to the ones we have. Obviously there's the possibility that we don't have the same 3rd party roster next time, and that would be a shame, but it's quite the guest roster to have. Thoughts?

 

[Morbi]

Well, let's be honest. Banjo probably could have a lot of the same moves as Duck Hunt, were he to be added to the next game.

If we are being honest? Absolutely not.

I know I said I was signing off, but I gotta say,

It's really sad that there are actually people who actively want characters removed from Super Smash Bros. Especially for soulless reasons like how they fair on the tier list.

I gotta say, I've never ever wanted a character removed from Super Smash Bros. And I'm no fanboy. I think there are people who take video games way too seriously to a point where it's impossible to really enjoy anything.

I like to see things through the eyes of an innocent, open minded child, which is what Nintendo games are made for. When I played Star Fox Adventures as a kid for example, I wasn't I wasn't like "What?! This isn't Star Fox!" I was like "Oh, cool. Fox is having an adventure on a dinosaur planet. That's neat."

I feel bad for people who see things through the perspective of "Pichu?! He's just a crappier version of Pikachu! Why is Wii Fit Trainer in this game?! Nobody asked for her." Did I say I feel bad? Let me rephrase that. I feel bad for me.

When I was a kid, I loved playing as Pichu in Melee because I was more concerned with playing as the characters I love instead of the stupid technical bull **** that people try to turn Super Smash Bros into. Everyone in the competitive community just look at Smash characters as nothing more than an artificial combination of strategies.

So it really saddens me that people actively push for the removal of characters people love like Lucina because they think they are "Just a worse version of Marth. I don't want extra characters just to pad out the roster. I'd rather them be cut than have two Marths on the roster."

Hopefully they remove R.O.B. and Game and Watch, I always hated them and I do not even need to bring up their tier as a reason. As an innocent, open-minded child, I thought that they were ludicrously stupid.

 

[N3ON]

I know I said I was signing off, but I gotta say,

It's really sad that there are actually people who actively want characters removed from Super Smash Bros. Especially for soulless reasons like how they fair on the tier list.

I gotta say, I've never ever wanted a character removed from Super Smash Bros. And I'm no fanboy. I think there are people who take video games way too seriously to a point where it's impossible to really enjoy anything.

I like to see things through the eyes of an innocent, open minded child, which is what Nintendo games are made for. When I played Star Fox Adventures as a kid for example, I wasn't I wasn't like "What?! This isn't Star Fox!" I was like "Oh, cool. Fox is having an adventure on a dinosaur planet. That's neat."

I feel bad for people who see things through the perspective of "Pichu?! He's just a crappier version of Pikachu! Why is Wii Fit Trainer in this game?! Nobody asked for her." Did I say I feel bad? Let me rephrase that. I feel bad for me.

When I was a kid, I loved playing as Pichu in Melee because I was more concerned with playing as the characters I love instead of the stupid technical bull **** that people try to turn Super Smash Bros into. Everyone in the competitive community just look at Smash characters as nothing more than an artificial combination of strategies.

So it really saddens me that people actively push for the removal of characters people love like Lucina because they think they are "Just a worse version of Marth. I don't want extra characters just to pad out the roster. I'd rather them be cut than have two Marths on the roster."

Live and let live. If people want a character gone, what skin is that off your nose? They value something different about the roster than you do. Telling people what they should want is more indicative of an overbearing parent, not an open-minded child. Especially since this is basically a "I'm not mad, just disappointed" post.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Hopefully they remove R.O.B. and Game and Watch, I always hated them and I do not even need to bring up their tier as a reason. As an innocent, open-minded child, I thought that they were ludicrously stupid.

And that one is my cue to sign out for the night. I have an interview in the morning. Hopefully Nintendo steers our speculation in the right direction soon before we capsize. Have fun everyone!

 

[New_Dumal]

I think some people don't see what a characte in the game means.
It's a slot. It's undeniable that a character requires time, implementation, balance, space, a lot of things to worry about.

"Oh, I never wanted any cuts" Ok. This doesn't make you a better/open-minded person.
Because people plays this game a lot. So it matters.I play at least 5 hours of Smash4 every week since the launch.
If a character I don't want/like is no longer in Smash, than all the resources would be used to another character that I may enjoy.

In Smash4 there are a lot of characters that are not my thing. Some of them I never saw the appeal, gameplay-wise.
I hated when Cloud was announced, but I like to play as him now. I just want to have more options to enjoy the game and cuts could help me with that. Being a good character (top/high tier) helps if you play into a competitive environment, but it changes a lot from game to game, so everything can happen. Numbers can make some magic.


About Lucina:
Lucina is Marth without the tipper mechanic. You can say what you want about her, but into Smash she is JUST that. Since the tipper mechanic is what I like the most into Marth playstyle, she is boring to me.
Every single time that I played as her in the last 2 years was because of a Iron Man. Since I want to chose characters I'm good with and I know how to play Marth, Lucina is a good pick.
A character like that is, AS SAKURAI SAID, a dessert.
It's a bonus. It's not something very precious in the game.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Live and let live. If people want a character gone, what skin is that off your nose? They value something different about the roster than you do. Telling people what they should want is more indicative of an overbearing parent, not an open-minded child. Especially since this is basically a "I'm not mad, just disappointed" post.

I think it comes down to, cutting a character one doesn’t like ultimately cuts a character somebody does like, and we all know cutting a character we don’t like doesn’t actually mean we get a character we do like to replace them.

In other words, asking for a cut because we don’t like them implies, “my tastes are more important than yours” which is toxic no matter how you slice it. Frankly, you don’t have to like the whole roster. That’s the point of the game, right? You play as your favorite, and don’t have to play the ones you don’t like. I mean does anybody actually play the whole roster?

I don’t really play G&W or Olimar, or Lucas for that matter. However, there are people who like them that can play them. The roster isn’t just for me, it’s for everybody. Even if I don’t play them, I can appreciate them for what they bring to the game.

To be honest, everybody can have their own tastes. But I do feel that wanting a cut deliberately because somebody “doesn’t like the character” is selfish in a way. Games like these aren’t really meant for everyone to necessarily like every character. That’s nearly impossible as it stands.

As I always say, just make your least favorite your punching bag if it would make you feel better.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I think you don't understand what I'm saying. Sakurai is basically the sole arbiter of who gets in, so saying "X wont happen because Sakurai said so" or "it's a rule," is a silly point because he can change his mind. Basically, don't cling to rules.

I mostly threw that as a bit of a joke, but...

But to talk on your point, Sakurai breaking certain foundations or "rules" the fanbase has started to adopt based on his previous decisions and like has been a very regular repercussion across the series, usually causing massive shifts on how we should perceive Smash Bros as, or what we should expect it to bring to us. So yeah, there's no hard "rules" or "trifectas" to consider how various chars or other features get in to the game or not.


However, just because Sakurai can change his mind on various things, doesn't mean there won't be anything sort of repercussions towards' Smash Bros's reputation due it's core identity and overall perception being "shaken" once again in minds of it's fanbase and general popular culture as well, over and over. Not only it'll alienate it's fanbase over time because now they can't form a coherent image of what the series is about, but the series will end up with a very fractured identity and take up more resources or liberties than it has to need to make a great game.


Like, I can live by the rules broken here and there if it exists on - but to say Smash Bros shifting to being a "Fighting Game Infinity" from being mainly Nintendo-centric fighting party game with some 3rd parties sprinkled sounds needlessly bloated and poses easily for ton of disaster regarding series' identity, overall perception and growth in the fandoms, and much more.

I find the whole 3rd party debate to be really interesting. Some people want icons, others want their (insert 3rd party choice) here, while others want characters that aren't even video game characters.

You thought Bayonetta stood out?

Listen, everybody has their wants right? I freaking love Spider-Man, the Avengers, X-Men, all sorts of stuff. Hell, even Joe Biden might make an epic old-man fighter. But are we really looking for characters that aren't video game characters at their core? That's kinda sad, right? We know this to be true.

I have a friend who would sincerely love to see Goku in Smash (has even said he thinks there's a chance because Goku is a mascot of the upcoming Olympics*?), but every time I tell him it wouldn't make sense. There are tons of great characters out there that would be amazing 3rd party candidates. Crash is one of them (despite the fact that I'm not too sure of him happening!), and the fact that they're all passed over makes me incredibly sad.

To clarify, I'm totally in agreement that the roster should, at any given time, be largely Nintendo. I also don't think any 3rd party series should have more than one character. To me, that means no Tails, no Sephiroth (even though he'd be badass, my dudes), no Chun-Li, no Proto-Man. Nintendo should be the focus, but I don't think that means we need to decrease the 3rd parties we have. The ones we have (maybe not Bayonetta, but she's fun) are effectively legend status characters. No matter how you slice it, they're gaming powerhouses just like Mario, Pikachu or Link. We've gotten a handful of those. That, Smash fans, is something to be proud of.

Now, what I'm curious about is the future of 3rd parties. We've got the big names. If the contracts stay in place, it's even more epic. Now, adding to that, who's next in line?

I think it really depends on the direction Sakurai wants to take, what games he's played, what standards he abides by. He definitely views the 3rd parties as "a class of their own", which I believe he specifically said about Mega Man, but I can imagine would apply to Ryu, Pac-Man and Cloud. Bayonetta gets a pass here as the ballot winner. (Plz do not restart the futile debate about her actually winning the ballot. I really don't care, and it's irrelevant at this point anyway.)

There are quite a few gaming icons from 3rd party companies (as in, not Sony and Microsoft). You've got Rayman, Crash Bandicoot, Shovel Knight, even Lara Croft, or other characters that didn't/aren't planned to appear on Nintendo consoles like Tracer for Overwatch (freaking huge right now), and there is simply a wonderful array of characters to choose from.

We don't need Goku or Naruto, my dudes. (sorry, I just love saying my dudes...NOT TO MENTION IT'S STILL WEDNESDAY!)

I'm simply curious as to what would place future 3rd parties next to the ones we have. Obviously there's the possibility that we don't have the same 3rd party roster next time, and that would be a shame, but it's quite the guest roster to have. Thoughts?

'd, but couldn't have put it to even better words than I did.

Darn the Wi-Fi messing with me at the last minute.

 

[DGAMER]

I personally don't want any characters to be removed as well, but I know it must happen. They can't just keep on adding and adding and adding. They are gonna have to make some cuts.

To me, what stands out of the different characters is diversity. Each character should have something unique that makes them stand out from the rest of the cast. This is why I want Dr Mario, Luicina, and Dark Pit to be turned to costumes or cut entirely. They don't give an unique contribution to Smash. Cutting characters like Duck Hunt, Wii Fit Trainer, and ROB is something I don't want to happen because these characters are incredibly unique. They have their haters, but I honestly believe they are a part of Smash now.

I hate to say it but as it is now, there will be a group of characters that in the future, will be known primarily for their Smash appearances. Captain Falcon, Earthbound Reps, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch and ROB are all examples of characters who's relevancy in today's age is basically, Smash. Duck Hunt will join this group, and so will the Wii Fit Trainer. Many years into the future, these characters will continue to carry the small legacy they have forwards in Smash.

As for third parties, eventually there will come the time the wall will fall and a 4th party character will join the battle. But it will be a long time in the future. For now, Nintendo's next milestone in terms of Third Party is to get a first party character that isn't of Nintendo in Smash. We partially got it with Cloud, and we might also partially get it if Banjo joins. But until the day a pure Sony character or a pure Microsoft Character gets into Smash, a 4th party character is impossible.

One last thing before I sign off... I've seen a lot of people toss around the idea of an Indie representative in Smash. While I am in favor of Indies in Smash, I don't believe the next entry is where it will happen. At best, we might see an Indie as DLC, but not as base game. But Indies are still a long way off. Still, anything can happen, and I will gladly accept any Indie that arrives.

K bye now.

 

[CBO0tz]

Banjo does not summon cowboys, nor does he have exploding cans, a disk, or a fourth wall breaking gun.

Banjo-Kazooie and Duck Hunt only have superficial similarities in the mammal/avian duo department.

No.

Yeah, and all the moves based around using said avian would be pretty similar in use between both characters.

 

[New_Dumal]

The same argument can be used to defend the ones who wants/defend cuts in the game.
YES, is selfish to want something you personally don't like to be removed. But again, is just a videogame.
When you want/support a character, you're already valuing what you want above other options.
Stop talking as if someone wanting your main character removed hurts you that much. It shouldn't.

I don't want to be rude but I have serious problems to understand why people values characters that much.
It feels like you don't like Smash, you like to play/represent that character. They're not real.
( I have a friend that plays into a competitive environment and always played as Zelda. He mains Zelda since Melee and never let her go. It's ok, she likes to play her... But then he complains about how everyone uses powercreep characters and how she sucks. And then he still plays her. And complaining about she being limited. And playing her. It's sooo weird)

 

[Troykv]

I just want Micaiah in Smash Bros; any other thing is just a nice extra for me.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The same argument can be used to defend the ones who wants/defend cuts in the game.
YES, is selfish to want something you personally don't like to be removed. But again, is just a videogame.
When you want/support a character, you're already valuing what you want above other options.
Stop talking as if someone wanting your main character removed hurts you that much. It shouldn't.

I don't want to be rude but I have serious problems to understand why people values characters that much.
It feels like you don't like Smash, you like to play/represent that character. They're not real.
( I have a friend that plays into a competitive environment and always played as Zelda. He mains Zelda since Melee and never let her go. It's ok, she likes to play her... But then he complains about how everyone uses powercreep characters and how she sucks. And then he still plays her. And complaining about she being limited. And playing her. It's sooo weird)

I don’t know that the whole “they’re not real” makes a proper connection to “you shouldn’t care that much”.

I mean sure, it might be over the top if somebody is sobbing in disappointment over a cut in Smash. But to say we shouldn’t care what happens seems to be the anti-thesis of being a fan in the first place? If we shouldn’t care, why would we be posting and speculating about the game as it stands? Why do we post on Smashboards?

Over the years, i’ve had some incredible memories playing Smash with friends. Thankfully the characters they mostly play won’t be cut anytime soon. However, there have been a few they did have a soft spot for and i’d hate to see them cut.

I also don’t think it’s too much to ask, even if it is a video game we’re talking about, to consider the wants of others. If somebody says they want to take a favorite of another fan out of the game, should we really expect people to just sit and take it? I don’t believe so.

Like if somebody says, “Greninja, Shulk, and Ike should be cut. I just don’t like them.” That’s their opinion and they have the freedom to say so, but they are not free from the critique to follow. Somebody will care, because you’re taking it away from them. Somebody somewhere appreciates that character.

It’s more in the reasoning than anything. Simply saying you don’t like them doesn’t make it about tech issues or licensing, it makes it about the person which is, inherently, selfish. Keeping a character in the game does nothing besides...I guess annoy that person?

Side note: Me supporting another character doesn’t mean I don’t want somebody else to get their character. It simply means I want something different.

Support for a new character is not the same as wanting to take something away from another person.

 

[Deleted member]

Could you give an example?

Im trying to think of one but i can't come up with anything.

I've said before it, but Godzilla is the best example of a character whose rights are relatively easier to obtain than a majority of non-video game origin options.

-Only one company to negotiate rights with (Toho Co. LTD).
-Said company is rather lenient with licensing their IP as long as they get paid and their terms and specifications are agreed with (i.e. Godzilla can't be shown eating people).


Another good example is Popeye, who is actually public domain everywhere in the world except in the US until 2024.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

It’s more in the reasoning than anything. Simply saying you don’t like them doesn’t make it about tech issues or licensing, it makes it about the person which is, inherently, selfish. Keeping a character in the game does nothing besides...I guess annoy that person?

There are trophies/unlockables that require all characters to be played, and they'll still pop up in 1p modes/online, so it's not like they can 100% be ignored.

I agree that all characters have a fanbase, and it'd be a shame to let those people down. Still, if cuts happen, everyone has people they'd miss less (or even outright dislike). That's the nature of a crossover game.

---

As for Third-Parties, I'd love to see them treated like guest characters in other fighting series. Have them be the special headliners for a game, then swap them out for all new ones in the next title. Doubt that'll happen, but I think it would help keep them exciting without people worrying that they're taking over the roster.

 

[RodNutTakin]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/412180654

So a /v/ thread with a supposed Treehouse employee spilling some beans about Smash for Switch is currently making a buzz on the board, and the OP has been replying to various questions/replies within. Pretty complex for a text-based leak, but considering fake leaks with more effort put in have tricked us before (the Rayman "leak" coming to mind), as well as the OP/Tripcode person not replying to any "show us your badge" type replies, I'd say we have good reason to stay skeptical either way.

Any thoughts?

 

[SneakyLink]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/412180654

So a /v/ thread with a supposed Treehouse employee spilling some beans about Smash for Switch is currently making a buzz on the board, and the OP has been replying to various questions/replies within. Pretty complex for a text-based leak, but considering fake leaks with more effort put in have tricked us before (the Rayman "leak" coming to mind), as well as the OP/Tripcode person not replying to any "show us your badge" type replies, I'd say we have good reason to stay skeptical either way.

Any thoughts?

Took a look, will sum up quickly for those with 4chan aversion.
Reveals all characters that were in first trailer.
Does not reveal any new characters, just says they will “blow us away” (barring return of Ice Climbers).
Stages, some new, some returning. Not necessarily competitive though.
New amiibo for all characters.

My opinion: Fake until proven real.

 

[Troykv]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/412180654

So a /v/ thread with a supposed Treehouse employee spilling some beans about Smash for Switch is currently making a buzz on the board, and the OP has been replying to various questions/replies within. Pretty complex for a text-based leak, but considering fake leaks with more effort put in have tricked us before (the Rayman "leak" coming to mind), as well as the OP/Tripcode person not replying to any "show us your badge" type replies, I'd say we have good reason to stay skeptical either way.

Any thoughts?

First of all, fake until proven real

Second, I love speculation, it's so exciting, anything, even the fake things.

 

[N3ON]

I think it comes down to, cutting a character one doesn’t like ultimately cuts a character somebody does like, and we all know cutting a character we don’t like doesn’t actually mean we get a character we do like to replace them.

In other words, asking for a cut because we don’t like them implies, “my tastes are more important than yours” which is toxicno matter how you slice it. Frankly, you don’t have to like the whole roster. That’s the point of the game, right? You play as your favorite, and don’t have to play the ones you don’t like. I mean does anybody actually play the whole roster?

I don’t really play G&W or Olimar, or Lucas for that matter. However, there are people who like them that can play them. The roster isn’t just for me, it’s for everybody. Even if I don’t play them, I can appreciate them for what they bring to the game.

To be honest, everybody can have their own tastes. But I do feel that wanting a cut deliberately because somebody “doesn’t like the character” is selfish in a way. Games like these are really meant for everyone to necessarily like every character. That’s nearly impossible as it stands.

As I always say, just make your least favorite your punching bag if it would make you feel better.

If Smash speculation needed a subtitle, it would be: "My Tastes Are More Important Than Yours", and cuts would be neither the beginning nor the end of it.

But wanting something gone isn't motivated by a hatred of that thing so much as it is by a fondness of the ultimate product. Suggesting something be removed is so that person can enjoy that product even more. Just because other people can and will disagree is not reason enough to censure that person for desiring what is, to them, the ideal.

Again the problem arises when one imposes that subjectivity on others, not simply for holding the belief. I would like a lot of characters in Smash gone, and I don't view Smash the same way you do. There is no correct way to view Smash; it's always going to be in the eye of the beholder.

In this vein, I believe those who seek to tell people they ought not desire cuts are encroaching just as much as those who seek to impose the cuts in the first place. Predicting is all well and good, but it's tangential to what people want out of a roster. If people want a purely Nintendo Smash, are they wrong for wanting the third-parties out? They'd be wrong should they expect it to happen, but they're not wrong for holding that desire, that value. They value the game for something else.

What's toxic is trying to oppress a dissenting opinion. It's no less a measure of "my tastes are more important than yours", and it's not going to stop making them feel that way. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and everyone should be entitled to express that opinion, and the beauty of free discourse is you're allowed and encouraged to challenge it. If someone's position is incredibly weak, biased, or motivated by hatred, it'll quickly collapse in on itself, and people won't lend it any credence. But if people infer offence where none is intended over a difference of desires, and it affects them so deeply to the point it's actually of consequence, then a public forum on the internet is not the place to be.

 

[Ura]

http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/412180654

So a /v/ thread with a supposed Treehouse employee spilling some beans about Smash for Switch is currently making a buzz on the board, and the OP has been replying to various questions/replies within. Pretty complex for a text-based leak, but considering fake leaks with more effort put in have tricked us before (the Rayman "leak" coming to mind), as well as the OP/Tripcode person not replying to any "show us your badge" type replies, I'd say we have good reason to stay skeptical either way.

Any thoughts?

Why is anyone taking that post seriously? It's literally a guy pretending he's a Treehouse employee and only providing a text leak.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Why is anyone taking that post seriously? It's literally a guy pretending he's a Treehouse employee and only providing a text leak.

Cause they're hungry like the wolf my friend.

 

[Deleted member]

Another good example is Popeye, who is actually public domain everywhere in the world except in the US until 2024.

Wait, does this mean that Nintendo could re-release Popeye for Arcade Archives and NES on the Switch witouth any issue on Japan and Europe?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm simply curious as to what would place future 3rd parties next to the ones we have. Obviously there's the possibility that we don't have the same 3rd party roster next time, and that would be a shame, but it's quite the guest roster to have. Thoughts?

As you brought up Tracer, it made me think about Nintendo working together with Blizzard for something like this. I'm an avid player of Heroes of the Storm, and that game is already using several Nintendo references in character skins. I always enjoy finding the new ones. The most notable skin to me is the Samus skin for Lt. Morales.
Blizzard has published on Nintendo consoles in the past with The Lost Vikings. Overwatch is massive right now, as you said, but what about a different Blizzard game? The biggest Blizzard game of all time is World of Warcraft. That game was absolutely revolutionary, and it still boasts millions of unique users monthly, even after existing for 14 years. On top of that, they have a massive expansion coming to the game this year. If Nintendo is going to deal with Blizzard, why not work in an iconic MMO character like Varian Wrynn, Thrall, or Uther? Just a thought, though. I think one of them could find a nice place in Smash.

EDIT: The thought of Varian Wrynn vs. Link or Marth gives me chills. I'm not even a long time WoW player, but Varian is one of my favorite characters in anything and that just sounds amazing (and impossible)

 

[Polan]

Live and let live. If people want a character gone, what skin is that off your nose? They value something different about the roster than you do. Telling people what they should want is more indicative of an overbearing parent, not an open-minded child. Especially since this is basically a "I'm not mad, just disappointed" post.

Oh, I would love to ignore all the people asking for certain characters to get cut. And I try to. But that's kinda difficult when some of my favorites have been put on the fanbase's chopping block.

Also we really need a leak thread. C'mon mods.

 

[Hinata]

Why is anyone taking that post seriously? It's literally a guy pretending he's a Treehouse employee and only providing a text leak.

Because we have basically nothing else to talk about at this point.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I know I haven't gotten any replies about my WoW/Warcraft idea, but honestly, imagine how many units that would move if a World of Warcraft/Warcraft Character was in the game. That would reach to a massive PC community that probably doesn't even care about Smash right now. But if you told them they could control Varian or Thrall and fight Mario? That would be absolutely insane.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Oh, I would love to ignore all the people asking for certain characters to get cut. And I try to. But that's kinda difficult when some of my favorites have been put on the fanbase's chopping block.

Also we really need a leak thread. C'mon mods.

As a survivor of the leak group.

Believe me. The leak group was basically a Happy Tree Friends episode.

Everything was super cute and friendly. Then two seconds later? Limbs are missing. Bombs are going off everywhere and Swamp Sensei has stepped in a trap and his leg is getting amputated by vaanrose while @Opossum is crying.

It's not pretty.

 

[New_Dumal]

As a survivor of the leak group.

Believe me. The leak group was basically a Happy Tree Friends episode.

Everything was super cute and friendly. Then two seconds later? Limbs are missing. Bombs are going off everywhere and Swamp Sensei has stepped in a trap and his leg is getting amputated by vaanrose while @Opossum is crying.

It's not pretty.

I'm well aware it is a bore to manage and there was a lot of problems.
Maybe because I'm just a regular user and had a lot of fun in that place...I would be quite happy to a new leak exclusive discussion. Even if only a thread.
We're trying to discuss leaks here too, but there is no focus. NintenZone is no-longer about that too.
And because this thread is not about leaks, people are not bringing everything leak-related to this place.
Maybe there's already the leaks of the leaks somewhere and I don't even know

 

[MysticKnives]

Potentially fun game - name a character that you'd be happy to see as a clone because you know they'd never get full development time.

For me, I'd love to see Funky Kong in Smash Bros. Switch even if he was just a Donkey Kong clone holding a surfboard.

For this little game, I'll allow VERY MINOR changes for example Funky's up special has him pull out a surfboard and helicopter with that instead of his arms. That's all though.

So yeah, I'm wondering what new clones would you be cool with?

Well my character isn't getting in ever period lol. But If he had to be a clone, I'd have Falcon be a semi-clone of Falcon. Edward Falcon (Power Stone) and Captain Falcon (F-Zero) in Smash. With the added bonus of Ryo Horikawa voicing them both.

Semi Clone of:

 

[vaanrose]

As a survivor of the leak group.

Believe me. The leak group was basically a Happy Tree Friends episode.

Everything was super cute and friendly. Then two seconds later? Limbs are missing. Bombs are going off everywhere and Swamp Sensei has stepped in a trap and his leg is getting amputated by vaanrose while @Opossum is crying.

It's not pretty.

I'm ready for my next tour of duty.

 

[Polan]

As a survivor of the leak group.

Believe me. The leak group was basically a Happy Tree Friends episode.

Everything was super cute and friendly. Then two seconds later? Limbs are missing. Bombs are going off everywhere and Swamp Sensei has stepped in a trap and his leg is getting amputated by vaanrose while @Opossum is crying.

It's not pretty.

If you were trying to convince me that a leak thread is bad....you failed my good sir. Now I want it even more.

But on all seriousness, having a dedicated leak thread would be useful to help keep track of all the leaks out there. Yeah most of them are BS but it's still fun to discuss and debunk them. Plus if a real leak hits, then it can be discussed there instead of being posted here (or anywhere else on the site) where it could potentially spoil people.

 

[Koopaul]

It’s more in the reasoning than anything. Simply saying you don’t like them doesn’t make it about tech issues or licensing, it makes it about the person which is, inherently, selfish. Keeping a character in the game does nothing besides...I guess annoy that person?

I have a different reason for wanting cuts. A more legitamate reason. The burden of the developers. Each time they make a new Smash they have to recreate all these characters. It's a lot of work. A lot. Cutting characters just means they are prioritizing development time and money on new characters. These people aren't gods, and the roster is getting so huge it will be extremely hard to get all the veterans in there plus making newcomers (and a new Smash needs newcomers).

The way I see it you can either get a new Smash that cuts characters and adds a lot new ones. Or you get a new Smash that keeps all 60 something characters and doesn't add many newcomers.

Fianlly I want to point out that the CSS screen will get to a point where there are too many icons on the screen. So many that each character icon has to be shrunk down to a tiny size to fit them all. Players won't even be able to see who's who.

In conclusion, I think we are starting to reach our limit. In future Smash games, if you want newcomers, expect cuts.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

As a survivor of the leak group.

Believe me. The leak group was basically a Happy Tree Friends episode.

Everything was super cute and friendly. Then two seconds later? Limbs are missing. Bombs are going off everywhere and Swamp Sensei has stepped in a trap and his leg is getting amputated by vaanrose while @Opossum is crying.

It's not pretty.

...

The kids at school call me stubby...

*sob*