Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[EnthusedPanda]

Does anyone else view it as a foregone conclusion that the game will launch when the Switch’s paid online service does?

I remember reading an interview with (I think?) Nintendo’s new president, wherein he mentioned they had something big in store for the launch of the service, and that it’s very worth our patience.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

If you're going to acquire freaking Cloud, why wouldn't you make sure he was in the title that would be in the sights of far more fans rather than a one-off DLC for a dying console?

Either for the hype and satisfaction or because Square asked Nintendo (and maybe will give the Switch some sort of Final Fantasy 7 port/remake in return)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As I've said before, I think it's entirely possible this game started as a "port this to the new console as quickly as possible with added new things" and turned into a full fledged "let's make this game amazing" by preserving as many of the characters as possible (if not all) from Wii U, and updating those models and stages and what not to be more current.

Of course Smash Switch is going to reuse Smash 4 data. But then again, so did Brawl reuse Melee data and Smash 4 the same for Brawl data.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Of course Smash Switch is going to reuse Smash 4 asets. But then again, so did Brawl reuse Melee assets and Smash 4 the same for Brawl assets.

He's not saying that though. He's saying that there's a distinct possibility this was originally going to be a straight up port, but then decided to add more to it, making it its own full game.

Speculation of course, but it would not surprise me if that was what happened.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

He's not saying that though. He's saying that there's a distinct possibility this was originally going to be a straight up port, but then decided to add more to it, making it its own full game.

Speculation of course, but it would not surprise me if that was what happened.

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

 

[Deleted member]

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

People can change minds, and Sakurai is no exception.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

That was a decade ago, things can change. And regardless there's still the very real possibility of them essentially porting the game over and working on top of that, rebranding it as a whole new game. And even if it's not I'm not expecting them to fully reanimate characters again or anything like that when the smash 4 assets are already up to date.

This debate is tired tbh.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Personally I don't believe any indie characters are getting in. However I just remembered there is one that has a good chance IMO.

Spoiler

Reimu Hakurei


She ticks a few boxes.

-Genre not represented in Smash yet(Bullet Hell)
-Most iconic character of bullet hell games.
-Moveset Potential(the danmaku the playable characters use in the Touhou Fighting Games)

Of course a major problem is that I don't see her requested as much for Smash. But right now with third party characters, it could be anyone at this point.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

I agree, but I think people are jumping at this idea for a few reasons:

• This started development so quickly after 2016, right before the Switch announced
• The Wii U bombed but it had great games: Mario Kart 8 and DKC: Tropical Freeze for example.

Again, more of a theory (a GAME theory), but it's certainly possible that they just wanted a Smash game as soon as possible on the Switch to ensure the console will be a success, which could strengthen the "port --> new game" idea.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

He said he considers Smash Wii U to be Smash 5, so it's not that out of character.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Personally I don't believe any indie characters are getting in. However I just remembered there is one that has a good chance IMO.

Spoiler

Reimu Hakurei


She ticks a few boxes.

-Genre not represented in Smash yet(Bullet Hell)
-Most iconic character of bullet hell games.
-Moveset Potential(the danmaku the playable characters use in the Touhou Fighting Games)

Of course a major problem is that I don't see her requested as much for Smash. But right now with third party characters, it could be anyone at this point.

Not gonna lie...I have no idea who this character is

I agree, but I think people are jumping at this idea for a few reasons:

• This started development so quickly after 2016, right before the Switch announced
• The Wii U bombed but it had great games: Mario Kart 8 and DKC: Tropical Freeze for example.

Again, more of a theory (a GAME theory), but it's certainly possible that they just wanted a Smash game as soon as possible on the Switch to ensure the console will be a success, which could strengthen the "port --> new game" idea.

The port turned game idea isn't even a reach if we consider the possibility that they ported it over and worked on top of it to make it into a new game and never intended it to be released as an actual port to begin with

 

[Burb]

Does anyone else view it as a foregone conclusion that the game will launch when the Switch’s paid online service does?

Nope, and I think it's silly that so many people seem to think so.

The online service doesn't need a tie-in game to entice people to pay; the fact that the service is "start paying or you can't play Switch games online anymore" is incentive enough.

Furthermore, there already is something probably launching not long before the service. It's the Splatoon 2 update.

He said he considers Smash Wii U to be Smash 5, so it's not that out of character.

I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

Counting a pair of partnered games as separate entries =/= suddenly being cool with making a Smash port.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Personally, I doubt it was ever intended to be a port. Sakurai was against the idea of Brawl just being a Melee HD, so why would he be okay with a Smash for Switch being a port?

Mainly because, well, it may not have entirely been up to him.

He’s contracted to make this by Nintendo. I think there’s the possibility that this concept was discussed between Kimishima and Sakurai. While Sakurai isn’t necessarily told what to do, I think it’s definitely possible that I’m trying to make the Switch really make a statement it was decided that a new Smash needed to be on the move..within 3 years of the final characters being added.

Combine that with the apparent lack of stress Sakurai is going through as he makes this game (while he has considered cuts putting him “to the brink of death”), and think that makes for a decent chance for few if any cuts.

I’m on mobile so I don’t have the link to that article on the workload of the current Smash unfortunately. Found it on reddit which was linked from another site.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'm not sure what one has to do with the other.

Counting a pair of partnered games as separate entries =/= suddenly being cool with making a Smash port.

If Smash Wii U is different enough from 3DS to be considered the next in the series rather than just another version of roughly the same game, I don't see why another port with some changes wouldn't also qualify.

 

[Opossum]

Personally I don't believe any indie characters are getting in. However I just remembered there is one that has a good chance IMO.

Spoiler

Reimu Hakurei


She ticks a few boxes.

-Genre not represented in Smash yet(Bullet Hell)
-Most iconic character of bullet hell games.
-Moveset Potential(the danmaku the playable characters use in the Touhou Fighting Games)

Of course a major problem is that I don't see her requested as much for Smash. But right now with third party characters, it could be anyone at this point.

I don't know who that is, but I'm guessing it's from Touhou?

Edit: Somehow my eyes didn't register the fact that your post included the word Touhou. I am the best detective, clearly.

 

[DeiSakuChris]

Personally I don't believe any indie characters are getting in. However I just remembered there is one that has a good chance IMO.

Spoiler

Reimu Hakurei


She ticks a few boxes.

-Genre not represented in Smash yet(Bullet Hell)
-Most iconic character of bullet hell games.
-Moveset Potential(the danmaku the playable characters use in the Touhou Fighting Games)

Of course a major problem is that I don't see her requested as much for Smash. But right now with third party characters, it could be anyone at this point.

Then you haven't seen the Japanese side of Smash, my guy.

Not only does she has a better chance of making in than Shovel Knight and Shantae, she would also represent indies way, way better than those two ever could.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Tbh in my mind at least, building this game as if it were from scratch and reusing some assets while remaking things that were remade just 4 years ago for the sake of remaking them would be a waste of time that they could've been spending adding more content to the game, cutting veterans when the last game was so recent just seems silly to me and the concept that a smash game has to have cuts just because the others do is just weird. I think we should all be prepared for this game to look A LOT like Smash 4.

 

[Burb]

If Smash Wii U is different enough from 3DS to be considered the next in the series rather than just another version of roughly the same game, I don't see why another port with some changes wouldn't also qualify.

If it's the same gameplay but completely different modes and stages, then it's not a port at all.

 

[Iridium]

It would be nice to see this character to be honest: Wylfred from Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. I guess RPG characters already appear a lot, but the mechanics of Wylfred's game are pretty unique.

 

[Deleted member]

It would be nice to see this character to be honest:

Spoiler

I'd main the broken image.

 

[Opossum]

It would be nice to see this character to be honest:

Spoiler

Your image is broken.

 

[Iridium]

Your image is broken.

Yeah, I know. I typed it instead, so check it out.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My other point is this...whether or not it was planned as a port or not is irrelevant. My point is more that the idea may have been proposed, but then changed depending on the desires of the director.

Kimishima is a smart man. With him in charge and having Sakurai get to work on another Smash game, and with Smash Wii U having arguably the most stacked all-star roster in gaming history, I cannot see them not at least going back to the negotiating table for the characters who they acquired, or putting in exceptional effort to retain the roster.

There’s also the fact that the Switch install base is already far larger than that of the Wii U. Like other games, these copies have outsold their Wii U predecessors. While this Smash game may not be a straight up “Deluxe”, I see no problem with the dev team reusing assets, but altering animations, hitboxes, and appearances while also adding characters on top of what was already added.

Given the time between games, State/direction of the company, and dev time, I think it’s entirely possible that this is building on what Wii U left rather than taking bits and pieces away.

I also don’t know that Sakurai would add characters simply to cut them in the next game within 3 years. That just seems weird to me, but that’s me.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So are we gonna see another shadow of Ridley to bring up more triggers?

 

[Iridium]

I'd main the broken image.

Here is the image I tried to use:

Spoiler

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It would be nice to see this character to be honest: Wylfred from Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume. I guess RPG characters already appear a lot, but the mechanics of Wylfred's game are pretty unique.

But...this guy is the most honest character in Smash

My other point is this...whether or not it was planned as a port or not is irrelevant. My point is more that the idea may have been proposed, but then changed depending on the desires of the director.

Kimishima is a smart man. With him in charge and having Sakurai get to work on another Smash game, and with Smash Wii U having arguably the most stacked all-star roster in gaming history, I cannot see them not at least going back to the negotiating table for the characters who they acquired, or putting in exceptional effort to retain the roster.

There’s also the fact that the Switch install base is already far larger than that of the Wii U. Like other games, these copies have outsold their Wii U predecessors. While this Smash game may not be a straight up “Deluxe”, I see no problem with the dev team reusing assets, but altering animations, hitboxes, and appearances while also adding characters on top of what was already added.

Given the time between games, State/direction of the company, and dev time, I think it’s entirely possible that this is building on what Wii U left rather than taking bits and pieces away.

I also don’t know that Sakurai would add characters simply to cut them in the next game within 3 years. That just seems weird to me, but that’s me.

So...like Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask but with Smash Wii U and Smash Switch?

So are we gonna see another shadow of Ridley to bring up more triggers?

approved, so yes

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I also don’t know that Sakurai would add characters simply to cut them in the next game within 3 years. That just seems weird to me, but that’s me.

Melee was 2 years after Smash 64 and Ness was almost going to be cut from the latter game. The thing that saved him was that Mother 3 was delayed multiple times before being cancelled, not Sakurai changing his mind because he was afraid of breaking the hearts of his fans. This isn't a point specifically meant to be used against any of the guest characters as much as it shows he has been willing to outright cut characters (Smash 4 is sort of an anamoly in that regards, given that Pichu wasn't even planned to be in Brawl). While I don't think there will be a mountain of cuts like some people do, it is a possibility that Sakurai may not want every single Smash 4 character back. Hey, he can change his mind, right? I mean, that's what people always say.

 

[Iridium]

[

Here is the image I tried to use:

Spoiler

In addition to this, for archers we could use these characters:

Spoiler

For rogues, there is her:

Spoiler

For lancers, my best picks are them:

Spoiler

For sorcerers, there are:

Spoiler

That took a while to gather, so I will finish this later. For this franchise, being popular to some degree in Japan when the games came out could not hurt it. Recognition probably would, however.

 

[SmashChu]

I think 10 characters, longer DLC schedule.

Pretty much what I'm thinking as well. I figure they'll roll out more content for a year like Splatoon has done.

My other point is this...whether or not it was planned as a port or not is irrelevant. My point is more that the idea may have been proposed, but then changed depending on the desires of the director.

Kimishima is a smart man. With him in charge and having Sakurai get to work on another Smash game, and with Smash Wii U having arguably the most stacked all-star roster in gaming history, I cannot see them not at least going back to the negotiating table for the characters who they acquired, or putting in exceptional effort to retain the roster.

There’s also the fact that the Switch install base is already far larger than that of the Wii U. Like other games, these copies have outsold their Wii U predecessors. While this Smash game may not be a straight up “Deluxe”, I see no problem with the dev team reusing assets, but altering animations, hitboxes, and appearances while also adding characters on top of what was already added.

Given the time between games, State/direction of the company, and dev time, I think it’s entirely possible that this is building on what Wii U left rather than taking bits and pieces away.

I also don’t know that Sakurai would add characters simply to cut them in the next game within 3 years. That just seems weird to me, but that’s me.

Well, characters get added to games and then cut in the next installment a lot.

Real brief, on the topic of guest, it may be easier to have them for DLC as Nintendo can just pay a commision rate (say 40% of sales) for using the character. This is easier to work then trying to pay a larger flat sum or a percentage of sales for a one time $60 buy. You are also talking about a lot of characters already with 5 different companies. The value isn't there.

 

[Troykv]

Then you haven't seen the Japanese side of Smash, my guy.

Not only does she has a better chance of making in than Shovel Knight and Shantae, she would also represent indies way, way better than those two ever could.

I would like to see posts from the Japanese Side.

 

[Retroend]

*reads past pages*

can we please get back to talking about smash bros?

 

[Nielicus]

If they bring back Pichu, I hope it has the notched ear lmao

 

[TumblrFamous]

*reads past pages*

can we please get back to talking about smash bros?

Maybe contribute to the conversation at hand rather than stirring up the previous pages.

 

[Garteam]

If we get an indie character in Smash, it is probably going to be this:

Spoiler

 

[Nekoo]

If we get an indie character in Smash, it is probably going to be this:

Spoiler

Didn't know that Microsoft was Indie...

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Funny, I was thinking about indie characters a second ago - specifically the ones the Western fanbase push for the most: Shantae and Shovel Knight.

Re:2hu: Reimu's probably a bit of a strange case. Yes, while there are now Touhou games on the Switch, these aren't really the games made by ZUN himself - more akin to doujin games that got ported over to Switch. Technically, I'd say for Reimu or any other 2hu like Marisa, Sakuya, Remilia get in Smash Bros, I think one of the official games would have to be ported over to the Switch first, like one of the fighters (Antinomy of Common Flowers being the most recent) or one of the Shooters from Embodiment of Scarlet Devil to Hidden Star in Four Seasons. Low-key would play as Marisa or Sakuya

Somewhat interesting to think that despite Touhou being one of the biggest doujin franchises in Japan, nobody really considers the idea of the series getting a guest fighter nor is there a vocal fan-demand for one. Most of the "my dream indie character is..." goes to Shantae and Shovel Knight, perhaps being some of the recognisable indies in the 10s, though Shantae has been around for longer.

As my stance on indies in Smash: cool if it happens, but not too essential in the overall scheme of things.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

*reads past pages*

can we please get back to talking about smash bros?

I mean if you got a topic we haven't discussed a million times I'm all ears

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Pretty much what I'm thinking as well. I figure they'll roll out more content for a year like Splatoon has done.


Well, characters get added to games and then cut in the next installment a lot.

Real brief, on the topic of guest, it may be easier to have them for DLC as Nintendo can just pay a commision rate (say 40% of sales) for using the character. This is easier to work then trying to pay a larger flat sum or a percentage of sales for a one time $60 buy. You are also talking about a lot of characters already with 5 different companies. The value isn't there.

This point may bear some merit, but before I would agree I'd have to see the actual costs of the characters. Like the question of what was spent would be interesting to note. But then again, it doesn't seem as if Nintendo is hurting and that to trim losses they have to cut 3rd party characters out of Smash.

Or at least, I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Look, guys. Some of you probably think I'm crazy or might be sick of seeing me post. Some people may not like what I think. That's fine. But the way I look at it, I think if any Smash game has a high chance to retain the roster, I think it's this one.

If it doesn't, it's not like I can change it. I'm going to buy the game anyway and enjoy it. I simply think the previous roster is absolutely stellar and I sincerely hope that it stays together. To me, that's my Smash Dream for this Smash Bros.

 

[Zippo]

I think the game is going to be what a lot of people are saying, and that's known as an iterative sequel. Using the same engine as before as a base, and adding all new stuff on top of it.

Which is totally fine by me. Some of the greatest games of all time are iterative sequels. Majora's Mask, Mario Galaxy 2, Mega Man 2-6, Sonic The Hedgehog 2, Final Fantasy V and VI, Symphony of the Night, the list goes on and on. Splatoon 2 is also now a part of that list.

 

[SmashChu]

This point may bear some merit, but before I would agree I'd have to see the actual costs of the characters. Like the question of what was spent would be interesting to note. But then again, it doesn't seem as if Nintendo is hurting and that to trim losses they have to cut 3rd party characters out of Smash.

Or at least, I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Look, guys. Some of you probably think I'm crazy or might be sick of seeing me post. Some people may not like what I think. That's fine. But the way I look at it, I think if any Smash game has a high chance to retain the roster, I think it's this one.

If it doesn't, it's not like I can change it. I'm going to buy the game anyway and enjoy it. I simply think the previous roster is absolutely stellar and I sincerely hope that it stays together. To me, that's my Smash Dream for this Smash Bros.

Unfortunately, we'll never get the details, so the specifics are speculation on my part. I will say that Nintendo got successful by keeping a strong financial house. Smash is rare in the number of licenses it has and Smash 4 added a lot as DLC. So the number expanded over time. It will be a different scenario for a new title. Its also not unprecedented as Snake didn't return.

Where I DO think your crazy is believing we wont have cuts. We're going to get them. The roster is already 55 characters large and we're talking of adding at least 10 more. There is going to be some padding down. I wouldn't get into this whole 'this game will be different." I remember saying that Smash 4 wasn't going to have cuts because it wasn't going to be rushed like Brawl. Didn't turned out like I thought.